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Knowing these games, Joe Darke got framed for one murder and then the police pinned every other murder that year on him.
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Mar 1, 2017 08:53
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Pretty sure he did do the other murders at least. His name is Darke, after all.
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Mar 1, 2017 10:10
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Joe Darke just wanted an ordinary life. Clearly this is the mindset of an innocent person.
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Mar 1, 2017 10:11
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He was looking kinda dumb with his finger and his thumb in the shape of an 'L' on his forehead... And now I want a montage of his murders set to that for some reason.
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Mar 1, 2017 10:14
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Mors Rattus posted:
Well that's a pretty funny statement to make in this series.
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Mar 1, 2017 11:46
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: ...! (We certainly can't get dead people to testify.)
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Dragonwagon posted:Well that's a pretty funny statement to make in this series. Well I mean, he's right. They can't! There aren't any spirit mediums in the immediate vicinity.
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Mar 1, 2017 11:51
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LordNagash posted:Well I mean, he's right. They can't! There aren't any spirit mediums in the immediate vicinity. Not only that, as we recall thanks to all the trouble Phoenix had to go through to get to the bottom of Edgey's father's death and because of a spirit actually LYING to the spirit medium used to determine who killed him, spirit mediums aren't credible. But again, this is Japanifornia where mystical poo poo is evidence and you can use wild wacky abilities to determine the truth.
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Mar 1, 2017 11:59
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Oh poo poo. I did not see that coming. So the investigator was going to kill Darke, Ema thinking it was Darke that was going to kill the investigator, pushes him and accidentally kills the investigator. I'm pretty sure legally, if you're in the US, that it's legal to kill someone if they are posing the imminent threat of severe bodily harm to you or someone else. quote:A non-criminal homicide ruling, usually committed in self-defense or in defense of another, exists under United States law. An homicide may be considered justified if it is done to prevent a very serious crime, such as rape, armed robbery, manslaughter or murder. The victim must reasonably believe, under the totality of the circumstances, that the assailant intended to commit a serious crime. An homicide performed out of vengeance, or retribution for action in the past, would not be considered justifiable. So no, I don't think anyone actually goes to jail over that. Plus Ema would be a minor anyway.
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Mar 1, 2017 16:19
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Your puny defenses about justification (or mens rea, or procedural safeguards, or basic rights, or basic logic) have no legal weight in Japanifornia.
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Mar 1, 2017 17:10
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Mors, you are a machine churning out these updates! Kudos to you for this frantic pace, especially at this point of the game! Poor Ema, I don't think they take killers into the police force. That's only allowed *after* you join!
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Mar 1, 2017 17:29
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Is Ema actually going to be charged with murder? Like, I thiught this whole coverup was to spare Ema from the burden of having killed a man ( and the wrong man at that)
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Mar 1, 2017 18:42
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Yorkshire Tea posted:Oh poo poo. I did not see that coming. Involuntary manslaughter is a crime; a much lesser crime than murder, but still on the mens rea tier. It goes like this, I believe: there's involuntary manslaughter, which is more or less a complete accident- no intent to hurt or kill, but still viable for recklessness or negligence charges; then there's voluntary manslaughter, in which an intent to hurt or injure, sometimes frighten, the victim but not kill them was proven, which is a bit more serious; then second degree murder, which was done without premeditation "in the heat to the moment", a crime of passion; and then first degree murder, in which both a plan to murder and intent are proven. Not that any of that means anything in this story, where someone has to swing if someone else turns up dead. This game is going to make me mad again, isn't it?
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Mar 1, 2017 18:45
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I mean, the laws of japanifornia are basically pure insanity when it comes to the courts, so yeah it'll probably make you mad.
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Mar 1, 2017 18:54
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resurgam40 posted:Involuntary manslaughter is a crime; a much lesser crime than murder, but still on the mens rea tier. It goes like this, I believe: there's involuntary manslaughter, which is more or less a complete accident- no intent to hurt or kill, but still viable for recklessness or negligence charges; then there's voluntary manslaughter, in which an intent to hurt or injure, sometimes frighten, the victim but not kill them was proven, which is a bit more serious; then second degree murder, which was done without premeditation "in the heat to the moment", a crime of passion; and then first degree murder, in which both a plan to murder and intent are proven. Which of those apply to case 3?
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Mar 1, 2017 19:05
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It depends on if Dee meant to hurt Jack or merely get him out of the way. Either way, she could probably make a case for self-defense. But then there's the mafia stuff, innit? And even if she's declared not guilty, the fallout basically means her career is over.
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Mar 1, 2017 19:10
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Mraagvpeine posted:Which of those apply to case 3? None, which makes it the most interesting one so far: the one who attempted the murder got himself killed, but given that the accused in that case blackmailed him out of revenge for what may or may not have been an accident, she's still not exactly blameless (especially given that she tried to have phoenix killed to cover it up, a fact not even brought up which shows you how much the life of a defense lawyer is actually worth in this brave new world  ). The game even indicates she wasn't in the end a killer by having her breakdown make her look better than before instead of destroyed her, because the truth has made her free.
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Mar 1, 2017 19:12
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resurgam40 posted:None, which makes it the most interesting one so far: the one who attempted the murder got himself killed, but given that the accused in that case blackmailed him out of revenge for what may or may not have been an accident, she's still not exactly blameless (especially given that she tried to have phoenix killed to cover it up, a fact not even brought up which shows you how much the life of a defense lawyer is actually worth in this brave new world Also in Turnabout Goodbyes, when Phoenix realises the guy on the boat with Edgeworth has to have been the murderer, pretending to be Hammond, this little dialogue takes place "Phoenix: Remember the case with the Steel Samurai!? Maya: Huh? Yeah, of course I remember... Phoenix: The murderer in this case had the same idea as the murderer in that case!" While Phoenix is a bit inaccurate in calling Hammer the murderer, the sentiment stands. The one considered a culprit in case 3 is Jack Hammer, not Dee Vasquez.
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Mar 1, 2017 19:22
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Dee was always one of my favorite characters in this and I always wonder what happened to her. She probably wasn't, like, a good person, what with blackmail and siccing mafia goons at folks, but Jack Hammer's death was definitely an accident of self defense so she might be the only person so far who doesn't get the death penalty.
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Mar 1, 2017 19:25
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I think I've figured out what actually happened in this case. Will be interesting to see if I am right.
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Mar 1, 2017 19:54
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resurgam40 posted:Involuntary manslaughter is a crime; a much lesser crime than murder, but still on the mens rea tier. It goes like this, I believe: there's involuntary manslaughter, which is more or less a complete accident- no intent to hurt or kill, but still viable for recklessness or negligence charges; then there's voluntary manslaughter, in which an intent to hurt or injure, sometimes frighten, the victim but not kill them was proven, which is a bit more serious; then second degree murder, which was done without premeditation "in the heat to the moment", a crime of passion; and then first degree murder, in which both a plan to murder and intent are proven.
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Mar 1, 2017 20:17
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The only bit of good news for Ema is that this isn't the trial for the murder of Neil Marshall, but of Bruce Goodman, so Ema's trial will be an entirely different travesty of justice. Hopefully she can find a decent defense attorney for that trial, whether it involves having to dig up Mia or not.
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Mar 2, 2017 00:53
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C. Everett Koop posted:The only bit of good news for Ema is that this isn't the trial for the murder of Neil Marshall, but of Bruce Goodman, so Ema's trial will be an entirely different travesty of justice. Hopefully she can find a decent defense attorney for that trial, whether it involves having to dig up Mia or not. Wouldn't the Marshall case be closed by the following day anyway? That's what triggered this whole incident.
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Mar 2, 2017 01:09
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Tenebrais posted:Wouldn't the Marshall case be closed by the following day anyway? That's what triggered this whole incident. Wrongful convictions can be overturned, even if the convicted is long dead. Besides I'm sure Japanifornia's bloodlust allows them to use trial and error in convictions, gotta crack a few eggs to make an justice omelet.
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Mar 2, 2017 02:04
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Dariusknight posted:Not only that, as we recall thanks to all the trouble Phoenix had to go through to get to the bottom of Edgey's father's death and because of a spirit actually LYING to the spirit medium used to determine who killed him, spirit mediums aren't credible. But again, this is Japanifornia where mystical poo poo is evidence and you can use wild wacky abilities to determine the truth. 
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Mar 2, 2017 04:14
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I would love to know what was going through Neil Marshall's head at the time. "I had him! I almost had him! gently caress YOU IN PARTICULAR, RANDOM SIX-YEAR OLD!"
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Mar 2, 2017 04:49
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Glazius posted:I would love to know what was going through Neil Marshall's head at the time. Nah, it went through his back.
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Mar 2, 2017 04:56
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Glazius posted:I would love to know what was going through Neil Marshall's head at the time. He's just really dedicated to the concept of people being convicted of things.
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Mar 2, 2017 08:50
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Glazius posted:I would love to know what was going through Neil Marshall's head at the time. I don't mean to nitpick, but Ema was 14 at the time.
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Mar 2, 2017 17:53
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Glazius posted:I would love to know what was going through Neil Marshall's head at the time. What in tarnation
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Mar 2, 2017 17:54
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Isn't the real cover-up here not that Ema might have accidentally killed Marshall, but that Marshall was about to murder Darke? Did I miss something? 
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Mar 2, 2017 17:56
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Isn't the real cover-up here not that Ema might have accidentally killed Marshall, but that Marshall was about to murder Darke? Did I miss something? It probably goes deeper than that, remember, they didn't have enough evidence to convict Darke so they manufactured a way to get Darke by making it look like he killed Marshall. The fact that Ema accidentally killed Marshall and that Marshall looked like he was trying to kill Darke is irrelevant (at the moment at least). Everytime I replay this case I think to myself, Darke = Michael Douglas in Falling Down
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Mar 2, 2017 18:21
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Isn't the real cover-up here not that Ema might have accidentally killed Marshall, but that Marshall was about to murder Darke? Did I miss something? I'm guessing were supposed to assume darke was also trying to kill Marshall and marshal just had the upper hand
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Mar 2, 2017 18:25
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FoolyCharged posted:I'm guessing were supposed to assume darke was also trying to kill Marshall and marshal just had the upper hand I'm not ready to assume that yet. Though I really thought we were going to learn that Gant was the real killer (I mean c'mon his name is Damon), so I'm kind of surprised that it's a case of tone at the top / corruption / shoddy police work a la OJ instead! Also it's real interesting that all the heat is on Edgeworth and none seems to be on the Chief of Police or anyone else now known or suspected of being involved with fabricating evidence.
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Mar 2, 2017 20:39
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That's just generally A Thing with the Phoenix Wright series, from what I'm aware of; we've even seen it earlier a couple of times, where simply proving that there's reasonable doubt isn't enough in the Japanifornia system and all trials are unbelievably biased and you have to slam-dunk every point and force confessions to make any headway at all. Now Phoenix seems to be unintentionally in the habit of tackling the problem directly (ie, corrupt/power-tripping police/prosecution), so some manipulation and push-back is to be expected.
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Mar 2, 2017 21:37
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Also it's real interesting that all the heat is on Edgeworth and none seems to be on the Chief of Police or anyone else now known or suspected of being involved with fabricating evidence. That's Gant using mob psychology to pin the blame on Edgeworth before anyone can put two and two together and go 'hey waitaminute, the Chief Prosecutor and Chief of Police both got their promotions from this case which has now been proven to have been wildly manipulate and falsified...'
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Mar 2, 2017 23:18
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It also helps that Edgeworth has a lot of negative press as a Demon Prosecutor and was suspected of murder not long ago.
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Mar 3, 2017 02:08
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It also helps that the only place of responsibility seems to be on the prosecutors office. We totally played you, got a few extra people killed, and falsified evidence, but it's your fault that you didn't catch us.
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Mar 3, 2017 02:32
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That's why this is one of the more frustrating LPs to follow, because the set up is so painfully unfair. This is not how a court should work!
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Mar 3, 2017 05:27
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Double Plus Undead posted:That's why this is one of the more frustrating LPs to follow, because the set up is so painfully unfair. This is not how a court should work! This entire game series is meant to satirize the actual functioning of the Japanese court system, which is only slightly better and significantly more boring.
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Mar 3, 2017 06:14
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I guess part of the reason might be that with all the power the Prosecutors seem to have about the police, it's not unreasonable that the Prosecution is actually held responsible for their actions. You get to bully and influence police forces and influence hteir paycheques and they will gently caress with evidence for you, but if the police is loving around with evidence, it's assumed they're doing that on your command.
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Mar 3, 2017 15:36
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