|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:Now you need to look at what "Star-Lord" actually means. It's a child's fantasy of being a space adventurer. That's not something you need to or should earn. It's not the actual moral duty or responsibility as a hero that Quill is after, he's after the satisfying a fantasy. He's pretty relatable.
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 17:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 11:36 |
|
|
Phylodox posted:Star Lord doesn't mean anything. Quill's fantasy life as "Star-Lord" is how he specifically interprets his mother's hopes. Phylodox posted:I'm having genuine feelings for someone who's having trouble coping with the death of a loved one. If you can't empathize with that...I guess that's good for you? Losing someone is horrible, and I don't wish it on anyone. You're claiming that I'm some sort of sociopath because I don't empathize enough with a fictional character's loss in a story that I find unsatisfying. That is very silly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 17:32
|
|
|
Imagine sitting next to this guy in the theater
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 17:36
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:Imagine sitting next to this guy in the theater Then imagine mid film beating him to death with your bare hands to the cheers of the others in the theatre.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 17:38
|
|
|
bunnyofdoom posted:Then imagine mid film beating him to death with your bare hands to the cheers of the others in the theatre. Another typical immature mid-30's male wish fulfillment fantasy. This is very silly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 17:43
|
|
|
bunnyofdoom posted:Then imagine mid film beating him to death with your bare hands to the cheers of the others in the theatre. I didn't know Man of Steel had a participation element.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 17:43
|
|
|
Quinn's aspiration's are to be more like Kevin Bacon and John Stamos.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 17:44
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:Imagine sitting next to this guy in the theater  if you don't wait for a movie to be out for a couple weeks before seeing it at a matinee.Half price tickets and a theatre all to yourself.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 17:47
|
|
|
In actual movie news, Logan might be getting the B&W treatment https://mobile.twitter.com/mang0ld/status/836892291361026048?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 17:47
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:Quill's fantasy life as "Star-Lord" is how he specifically interprets his mother's hopes. So? He's wrong, and in the end he comes to realize it. The name Star Lord has no inherent meaning. For twenty-six years, Peter used the name to cling to his dead mother, refusing to move on or grow, living an empty, unfulfilling life as a stunted child. At the end of Guardians of the Galaxy, he finally realizes that what his mother wanted for him wasn't space adventures or laser guns, it was to move past her death. Being Star Lord isn't about just running around having kickass hijinx anymore, it's about having a surrogate family and helping people. The fact that he still has kickass hijinx doesn't somehow negate any of that. quote:You're claiming that I'm some sort of sociopath because I don't empathize enough with a fictional character's loss in a story that I find unsatisfying. That is very silly. No, I'm saying that if you can't connect with a film's emotional core, then maybe it's because that film's emotional core isn't something you've had experience with. Or maybe you just don't connect emotionally to the media you consume? You seem to think that finding this movie about loss and pain emotionally resonant is somehow silly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 17:49
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:Imagine sitting next to this guy in the theater I imagine him as being a real-life Sheldon from Big Bang Theory.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 17:55
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:Another typical immature mid-30's male wish fulfillment fantasy. This is very silly. Excuse me, I am just an almost-30's male thank you very much.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 17:59
|
|
|
The idea that The Ravagers represent real and important family that Peter is childishly rebuffing is such incredibly privileged dogshit. I and MANY people I know did not have the luxury of keeping every toxic member of their family in their lives, and we had to go out into the world on our own and find similar people to form bonds with to create new family. Peter not wanting to continue living as the punching bag for several dozen hardened merc sociopaths is... fine? How is that not fine? The Guardians are all wounded, damaged outcasts who are extremely guarded in their willingness to stop being loners in a party of loners. They each eventually show the ways they are vulnerable and scared to the others on the team, and in so doing, they knit into a family. They then use the power of having connection for the first time in their lives to prevent a death-obsessed nihilist from killing every single person on an entire planet because he dislike's one of its countries' governments. It's almost like we are then explicitly shown how this keeps loving families together, like as if forming healthy communities makes society better and provides longer term success than, say, hastily thrown together military responses. vvv good point SlimGoodbody fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Mar 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 18:06
|
|
|
SlimGoodbody posted:They then use the power of having connection for the first time in their lives to prevent a death-obsessed nihilist from killing every single person on an entire planet because he dislike's one of its countries' governments. Ronan isn't even a death-obsessed nihilist. Ronan is just the result of the same cycle of pain and loss that Peter almost falls victim to. He doesn't hate Xandar because of its politics, he hates them because they were responsible for the deaths of "my father, and his father, and his father". Ronan can't let go of the past, so he is consumed.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 18:13
|
|
|
SlimGoodbody posted:The idea that The Ravagers represent real and important family that Peter is childishly rebuffing is such incredibly privileged dogshit. I and MANY people I know did not have the luxury of keeping every toxic member of their family in their lives, and we had to go out into the world on our own and find similar people to form bonds with to create new family. Peter not wanting to continue living as the punching bag for several dozen hardened merc sociopaths is... fine? How is that not fine? The fact that the characters that represent responsibilities and duties are also abusive and monstrous was a choice on the creators' part. And lol, you're saying that the Ravagers are bad because they're hardened merc sociopaths. That's what the Guardians are too. They're all ruthless killers and criminals. Even Groot. Phylodox posted:No, I'm saying that if you can't connect with a film's emotional core, then maybe it's because that film's emotional core isn't something you've had experience with. Or maybe you just don't connect emotionally to the media you consume? You seem to think that finding this movie about loss and pain emotionally resonant is somehow silly. Maybe it's a bit silly to assume people are emotionally deficient for not emotionally connecting with Marvel's blockbuster movie Guardians of the Galaxy.Well, you're making some very big assumptions there. Including that I didn't connect with the film's emotional core. I do empathise with Quill for losing his mother. That was because he's a child bearing terrible loss. I don't particularly connect with Quill's character as an adult, since he's a lame combination of self-effacement and self-glorification without any real insight or credible core as a hero. He's like Captain Qwark or Zapp Brannigan played straight (both of those characters go through more heroic hardships than Quill). The Guardians themselves are a lame representation of family. Haddock's identification with his ancestor is something mature and aspirational, while the Guardians' driving purpose as a family is to kill bigger threats. This project of reading GotG reading as a rehabilitating work falls apart on that point. Phylodox posted:Ronan isn't even a death-obsessed nihilist. Ronan is just the result of the same cycle of pain and loss that Peter almost falls victim to. He doesn't hate Xandar because of its politics, he hates them because they were responsible for the deaths of "my father, and his father, and his father". Ronan can't let go of the past, so he is consumed. Ronan is a thanatic figure. He's Death and Taxes so to speak: duties and responsibilities have almost uniformly antagonistic or counterproductive associations in the movie. Ronan sees his duty as avenging his forefathers and imposing Kree justice, and he's evil. The Nova Corps enforce the laws, and they initially oppose the heroes. The Ravagers are Quill's demanding family, so they're chasing him. Drax sees it as his purpose to avenge his family, and he's myopic and self-destructive. Quill's dad wants his son, and he's an rear end in a top hat. Quill does things because he wants to, so he's the ultimate heart of the movie. The Guardians killing Ronan is the ultimate expression of what their family stands for: banishing uncomfortable burdens. bunnyofdoom posted:Then imagine mid film beating him to death with your bare hands to the cheers of the others in the theatre. Lol at the internet tough guy. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Mar 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 18:39
|
|
|
Jamesman posted:
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 19:00
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:Lol at the internet tough guy. Lol at the internet autist.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 19:07
|
|
|
Hey guys, just posting to talk about how excited I am about all these comic book movies!
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 19:13
|
|
|
Arist posted:Hey guys, just posting to talk about how excited I am about all these comic book movies! It's nice living in a time to see all these comic book characters on a big screen
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 19:16
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:The fact that the characters that represent responsibilities and duties are also abusive and monstrous was a choice on the creators' part. They are killers in a fictional backdrop in which marginalized outsiders must be killers in order to survive. They don't pat themselves on the back for not eating children. They try to be better people over the course of the film. And yes, it was a creative decision. Everything in every movie is a creative decision. Congratulations on cracking the mystery. The Guardians also end up representing duties to each other, only this time the members are motivated to carry them out, because they have connection to each other. I think the message is that familial duty makes sense when you also have familial love, but familial duty to your abusers is a cycle that needs to be broken (see the endless retribution between Ronan and the Kree vs the Nova Corps). quote:Maybe it's a bit silly to assume people are emotionally deficient for not emotionally connecting with Marvel's blockbuster movie Guardians of the Galaxy. You do this with every DCU movie, only add "intellectually deficient" and "apparently incapable of understanding why you are wrong because I am right and I am saying a different thing than you" and then you sealion people when they call you out on it quote:The Guardians themselves are a lame representation of family. Haddock's identification with his ancestor is something mature and aspirational, while the Guardians' driving purpose as a family is to kill bigger threats. This project of reading GotG reading as a rehabilitating work falls apart on that point. No one is interested in talking about Tintin, why are you still doing this? Is Tintin your new gimmick cause you think you'll get banned if you keep doing your MoS schtick? quote:Ronan is a thanatic figure. He's Death and Taxes so to speak: duties and responsibilities have almost uniformly antagonistic or counterproductive associations in the movie. Why are you assuming duty and responsibility is always inherently good or noble? quote:Ronan sees his duty as avenging his forefathers and imposing Kree justice, and he's evil. The Nova Corps enforce the laws, and they initially oppose the heroes. The Ravagers are Quill's demanding family, so they're chasing him. Drax sees it as his purpose to avenge his family, and he's myopic and self-destructive. Quill's dad wants his son, and he's an rear end in a top hat. Quill does things because he wants to, so he's the ultimate heart of the movie. I think it was pretty evident that a major theme was "creative anarchy can short circuit oppressive and calcified systems of authority" so I don't know why this confounds you quote:The Guardians killing Ronan is the ultimate expression of what their family stands for: banishing uncomfortable burdens. "Setting boundaries is bad and the only good story about burdens is BvS, where people scream with rage at each other until they die of burden-carrying. Now let me tell you how this is actually a very optimistic film and GotG is a cynical, dour slog." quote:Lol at the internet tough guy. Yeah, that was pretty dumb, but to be fair you do drive everyone insane, which we all suspect is your goal anyway
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 19:16
|
|
|
This thread sucks when it turns into the same one as CineD, because that thread sucks. Logan looks great and I got my ticket for Thursday night! I'm happy that the reviews so far are really positive.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 19:23
|
|
|
Codependent Poster posted:This thread sucks when it turns into the same one as CineD, because that thread sucks. Yeah if it does as well as people think (the oracles consulting entrails have forecast a $140 mil opening weekend) it's going to be real tough for Jackman to quit the role.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 19:32
|
|
|
zoux posted:Yeah if it does as well as people think (the oracles consulting entrails have forecast a $140 mil opening weekend) it's going to be real tough for Jackman to quit the role. It'll be fun reading the rumor mill about the size of the bag of money they throw at him to stick around for another.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 19:33
|
|
|
MacheteZombie posted:It'll be fun reading the rumor mill about the size of the bag of money they throw at him to stick around for another. Complicating that rumor is that Jackman said he'd love to continue to be Wolverine: as long as he gets to join the Avengers 
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 20:19
|
|
|
zoux posted:Complicating that rumor is that Jackman said he'd love to continue to be Wolverine: as long as he gets to join the Avengers "please get me away from fox studios"
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 20:21
|
|
|
My opinion is that Drax is the best Guardian of the Galaxy dude, and if you disagree then you are good smell deficient.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 21:35
|
|
|
zoux posted:Complicating that rumor is that Jackman said he'd love to continue to be Wolverine: as long as he gets to join the Avengers What if there was an....alternative solution? 
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 22:03
|
|
|
Introducing the newest member of the Avengers....Patch!
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 22:24
|
|
|
Just put Hugh Jackman on the Avengers. Have him have claws for no clearly explained reason but everyone just refers to him as Oscar Nominated Actor Hugh Jackman
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 22:39
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Just put Hugh Jackman on the Avengers. Have him have claws for no clearly explained reason but everyone just refers to him as Oscar Nominated Actor Hugh Jackman The SkunkBear
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 22:41
|
|
|
Just back from seeing Logan, really enjoyed it I have to say. I haven't really enjoyed the other films (X1 and X2 were ok but uneven, 3 was terrible, haven't really enjoyed the First Class series, haven't seen Origins and the Wolverine was ok but the ending was terrible). It's definitely the most even of them all imo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 23:40
|
|
|
So as far as I can tell, all of this boring recalcitrant goober debate boils down to a fundamental difference in taste: do you prefer the HOW of a movie, or the WHAT of a movie? BvS (or MoS) was a good story told poorly. The individual bits of that movie are great, but by the time they made it to the screen they just didn't work. The above debate makes it very clear that a lot of viewers just didn't like how how the story was told. I think that's why Attack of the Clones is such an insult to so many people; if you describe that movie to someone, it sounds loving awesome. But it just doesn't follow through. Dr. Strange (or Deadpool, or both Avengers to an extent) was a really bland and milquetoast story that was told well enough that most people didn't notice that they were watching a pallet swapped Iron Man, or didn't care. I know I didn't. With those movies, it's about how the story is told. With Dr. Strange, all the crazy visuals and good performances and solid editing made up for the fact that the plot itself was a grey piece of paper. Do I think the Weeknd is shallow Michael Jackson plagiarism wrapped in millennial friendly packaging? gently caress yeah I do. Do I tell anyone? No. I can cross my arms and stamp my feet about this hackery or that total lack of originality as I bury myself in the Amphetamine Reptile backlog, but yo some people wanna hear the man with the nice voice sing about sex and drugs. That's going to be the case for ever and ever. Anyways that's my totally original hot take. Edit: Yes, I understand a movie can be both. The best movies are. Yes, I get it. However, not all of them are, and I still think people's preferences usually fall to one side or the other. Ireallylikeeggs fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Mar 2, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2017 00:53
|
|
|
Speaking of which, the X-Men franchise is a curious case wherein the non-white actors are usually not the ones to get covered in head-to-toe makeup...the two exceptions being Blink, whose makeup is fairly low-key and understated, along with En Sabah Nur, whose original skin color you do get to see at the beginning of the film. This is an important detail to have when the themes of prejudice in these stories are so forthright and unambiguous. On the other hand, it doesn't necessarily mean these films' treatment of non-white characters is above reproach. We all know how ridiculous it was for that the one single black character in First Class -- whose superpower is literally to adapt to any threat -- was the first and only hero character to die. But something that gets overlooked about Days of Future Past is how every single character of color seems to only exist in the future portion of the story...and I use the term "character" reluctantly, because for the most part they were mute cannon fodder, albeit mute cannon fodder with cool FX. It basically makes it seem as if people of color just haven't been invented yet in the 70s.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2017 00:58
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/837091636010110976
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2017 01:07
|
|
|
can't get away from that color palette can you, Mr. Snyder 
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2017 01:10
|
|
|
BrianWilly posted:... something that gets overlooked about Days of Future Past is how every single character of color seems to only exist in the future portion of the story...and I use the term "character" reluctantly, because for the most part they were mute cannon fodder, albeit mute cannon fodder with cool FX. It basically makes it seem as if people of color just haven't been invented yet in the 70s. Which First Class character would you have race-bent? The closest one I can think of that might work is Banshee, but I haven't seen the films in a while so my memory is fuzzy. Do you think Sunfire should/could have been added to the cast?
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2017 02:43
|
|
|
Well, First Class does have Angel Salvadore as well, so I was really referring more to DoFP. If we're talking about further diversifying the line-up in general, the X-books have such a wide variety of diverse characters in the first place that I wouldn't necessarily racebend any white characters as opposed to just, yeah, flat-out putting any of the very many non-white X-characters like Sunfire in those past storylines. It's not as if the film was all that particular about which eras of the X-Men it cherrypicked its characters from; Havok, Angel, and Darwin are from three completely different eras of the books and they all got tossed into the 60s. But that's, again, only sort of addressing the big issue where the characters of color always tend to be supporting characters even if they are present. There could be a ton of non-white characters in your film, such as with the future storyline of DOFP, and the actual important lead characters will still usually be white. Storm is usually the closest that the X-films come to subverting that rule, and even so I doubt we'd argue that any of the X-films were "about" her.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2017 03:23
|
|
|
I always assumed that if Origins:Wolverine had been better received then Storm would have gotten a solo movie as well. I'm only a casual X-Man reader and am really struggling to think of any cannon POC mutants who could carry a story and isn't a stereotype (like Warbird). Who are you thinking of? As to your main point of having more diversity leads, I agree with you. Blade, Big Hero 6, Catwoman... off the top of my head that might be the entire list.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2017 03:39
|
|
|
Yakmouth posted:I always assumed that if Origins:Wolverine had been better received then Storm would have gotten a solo movie as well. Thank goodness for small favors
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2017 04:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 11:36 |
|
|
Yakmouth posted:As to your main point of having more diversity leads, I agree with you. Blade, Big Hero 6, Catwoman... off the top of my head that might be the entire list. Have we forgotten Steel already? ... I wish I could...
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2017 04:41
|
|
