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The Iron Rose posted:Ironically, in and of itself an example of a terrible fanfic. speaking of things that are terrible, but not as bad as MoR, a anti-death story featuring a character who actually is related to that idea rather than 'is harry potter': http://archiveofourown.org/works/9402014/chapters/21285149 mostly i like that the story recognises that the general concept of preventing all death, forever is both laudable and really freaky to a lot of people, rather than having the author insert yell at people and have them argue ineffectually in return e: quality page snipe
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Feb 17, 2017 12:26
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The Iron Rose posted:Ironically, in and of itself an example of a terrible fanfic. ehh YMMV, HorizonTheTransient is an acquired taste. I like his style in self-indulgence, I can see others wanting to set it on loving fire. Particularly given it's really obvious he's a filthy Homestuck. You'll be displeased to know I've been encouraging him to get more indulgent in the current one, "Average Joe". He did put me onto this absolutely delightful thread throwing ordure at HPMOR, which I'm reading all of. That thread pointed to this thread. I particularly liked this analysis of The Problem With HPMOR: Harry Leferts posted:One of the things that you have to understand, Yog, is that Yudkowsky actually dislikes scientists in reality when they disagree with his worldview (in fact, if you replace Harry with Yudkowsky and the wizards/magic with scientists/science, things make a bit more sense). Yes, I realize that we're not supposed to talk about the author, but in this case we need to understand his viewpoint to understand the fic. Now, as to what I am talking about, Yudkowsky did a blog post a while back where he went on about how Bayes' Theorem is superior to the scientific method. In fact, one sentence stated "now to fully break your allegiance to science". The blog went on about how if what Bayes' Theorem is saying is different then what the scientific method shows, then Bayes' theorem is right and the scientific method is wrong. It also reminded me of one thing that only rarely gets brought up when hurling ordure at HPMOR, probably because hardly anyone makes it to chapter 102: the bit where Harry Riddle murders Rarity from My Little Pony. Elijah Yakovlev posted:So Harry had gone into the Forbidden Forest wearing his Cloak. He had searched the Grove of Unicorns until he saw her, a proud creature with a pure white coat and violet hair, with three blue blotches on her flank. Harry had gone over, and the sapphire eyes had stared at him inquisitively. Harry had tapped out the sequence 1-2-3 on the ground several times with his shoes. The unicorn had shown no sign of responding in kind. Harry had reached over, taken her hoof in his hand, and tapped the same sequence with the unicorn's hoof. The unicorn had only looked at him curiously.  harry's gonna getcha rarity
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Feb 17, 2017 12:52
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 I had somehow completely missed that. People are really weird.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:39
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The other unicorn in that chapter is also a my little pony reference, as much as it pains me to know that. The venn diagram of 'brony' and [any given other weird internet thing] is drat close to a circle, isn't it?
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Feb 18, 2017 01:30
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ungulateman posted:The other unicorn in that chapter is also a my little pony reference, as much as it pains me to know that. The venn diagram of 'brony' and [any given other weird internet thing] is drat close to a circle, isn't it? You'd probably be surprised to know that many furry communities are outright hostile to bronies because they make them look even worse, also the whole association with pedophilia thing. But for the most part, yeah. It's pretty fuckin weird.
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Feb 18, 2017 02:15
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ungulateman posted:The other unicorn in that chapter is also a my little pony reference, as much as it pains me to know that. The venn diagram of 'brony' and [any given other weird internet thing] is drat close to a circle, isn't it? the godlike review of Friendship Is Optimal over in the closed LessWrong thread, holy poo poo. Most "rationalfic" is better than HPMOR because it could hardly be worse. Friendship Is Optimal is the exception to that rule. Holy poo poo. Holy poo poo. ON ANOTHER NOTE ENTIRELY, here is a fanfic of HPMOR from that Spacebattles thread I linked. Harry Riddle and the Methods of Paranoia “The wand chooses the wizard, Mr. Potter,” Ollivander said. Wands were sentient. No, that didn’t make sense. If a unicorn wasn’t sentient, and a tree wasn’t sentient, how could a unicorn hair in a piece of wood be? More likely, they borrowed your intelligence for their own purposes. They didn’t really understand, but you did, so they did too. Which meant that they could think of anything that he could think of. What does a wand want? A wand’s borrowed intelligence didn’t need to be shaped by the ancestral environment of the human species, after all. What criteria did they use to choose their wielders? And more importantly, what would they do to gain it? A normal eleven-year old didn’t know anything about game theory or the mathematics of decision making. A wand that knew about those would have many more options to influence a wizard. They could take away his magic or even hurt him, hurt other people by backfiring at a critical moment. And because all of the wands in Ollivander’s shop borrowed from one intelligence, his own intelligence, it could be sure that all the other wands would also follow through with those options. They would have an incentive to cooperate even if all the wands didn’t share the same goals, because their own threats wouldn’t be valid otherwise. “Try this,” said Ollivander, handing him a wand from behind the counter. It felt like a stick of wood in his hand. Nothing more. Ollivander moved to snatch it away from him, but Harry waved him off. “Wait,” Harry said. “I need to test a theory.” What price do you want for cooperation? The wand felt as lifeless as ever. Right. That was a mistake. Yes or no questions only. Do you want me to help people? I can do that. The wand felt slightly warmer. Closer. Do I need to change my ambitions? This time the wand gave him a jolt of searing pain, like an electric shock. Wrong. You want me to take over the world? The wand responded very suddenly to this, feeling pleasantly warm. But you don’t trust me to do it right? The same sensation. Harry felt a feeling of horror dawn in his chest. By worrying about what the wands might want him to do, he had created something terrible. He’d read about this idea before, in one of his sci-fi books. They called it a basilisk, after the myth of a creature that could kill with a look. The idea went that something could be so dangerous, that just knowing about the idea was harmful. That’s what he’d created. If he ever wanted to use magic, he would have to do what the wand wanted him to do. The other wands, even the most altruistic, would refuse to obey him, for that would take the sting out of their own coercions. If he refused, then Voldemort would kill him. The world would never be optimised. Countless billions would die. No, he thought. That can’t happen. I’ll make sure to succeed, whatever it takes. With that thought, the wand began to shake and spit streams of red sparks. He gave it a tentative wave, sending sparks everywhere. Ollivander congratulated him on his purchase, commenting on how odd it was for a wand to take so long to respond. Harry thanked him, paid and left the shop. The world would never be the same after this. source
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Feb 18, 2017 02:16
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divabot posted:ehh YMMV, HorizonTheTransient is an acquired taste. I like his style in self-indulgence, I can see others wanting to set it on loving fire. Particularly given it's really obvious he's a filthy Homestuck. You'll be displeased to know I've been encouraging him to get more indulgent in the current one, "Average Joe". How did you guys know that this was a reference to the pony cartoon in the first place
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Feb 18, 2017 05:33
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A human heart posted:How did you guys know that this was a reference to the pony cartoon in the first place How did they guess that a horse creature that fits the description of a cartoon pony character is referring to a well known cartoon pony character? I got no clue either dude. A real mystery.
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Feb 18, 2017 06:53
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How did they know that the description matched the cartoon then
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Feb 18, 2017 07:34
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because while the actively disgusting bronies were purged from something awful with fire several years ago, there are many goons who have some degree of passing knowledge of the show, usually because they have children and/or younger relatives who watch it i, on the other hand, got a red text title within about a week of regging for saying i watched the show, so i stopped talking about it and someone took pity on me and bought something dumb and meaningless instead TBH I'm more ashamed of remembering the details of a chapter of Methods of Rationality than I am of having watched a children's cartoon years ago and remembering stuff from that
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Feb 18, 2017 09:13
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ungulateman posted:TBH I'm more ashamed of remembering the details of a chapter of Methods of Rationality than I am of having watched a children's cartoon years ago and remembering stuff from that oh I dunno. HPMOR did directly inspire the cursed slab of MLP pony loving called "Friendship Is Optimal", because when you're writing a bludgeoning allegory of the dangers of not-quite-friendly Artificial Intelligence, it's important not to forget the loving details of putting your now-an-MLP-pony penis into that sweet AI-synthesized-talking-fuckdoll-MLP-pony 'gina. It's pretty clear there's plenty of shame here for errybody.
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Feb 19, 2017 00:08
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i'd actually forgotten exactly how bad friendship is optimal was, so thank you for that charmingly graphic reminder
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Feb 19, 2017 01:11
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divabot posted:oh I dunno. HPMOR did directly inspire the cursed slab of MLP pony loving called "Friendship Is Optimal", because when you're writing a bludgeoning allegory of the dangers of not-quite-friendly Artificial Intelligence, it's important not to forget the loving details of putting your now-an-MLP-pony penis into that sweet AI-synthesized-talking-fuckdoll-MLP-pony 'gina. It's pretty clear there's plenty of shame here for errybody. I could have gone my whole life without reading this
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Feb 19, 2017 02:54
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What we really need now is for Perfect Lionheart to decide he needs to pwn rationalfic next.
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Feb 19, 2017 12:03
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divabot posted:What we really need now is for Perfect Lionheart to decide he needs to pwn rationalfic next. Should I know anything in particular about this person other than being a writer of presumably terrible fanfiction? Also, HIJK posted:I could have gone my whole life without reading this
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Feb 19, 2017 15:48
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The Shortest Path posted:Should I know anything in particular about this person other than being a writer of presumably terrible fanfiction? Notorious for being verbose and mentally unstable even by the standards of fanfiction writers. Has written multiple stories almost as big as HPMOR, and even more full of author-insert rants and bizarre and disgusting fetishes, that have an entirely unreasonable number of people defending them with 'well it starts out good, honest!'.
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Feb 19, 2017 16:25
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Darth Walrus posted:Notorious for being verbose and mentally unstable even by the standards of fanfiction writers. Has written multiple stories almost as big as HPMOR, and even more full of author-insert rants and bizarre and disgusting fetishes, that have an entirely unreasonable number of people defending them with 'well it starts out good, honest!'. His Worm fic started out ... not worse than most all-pwning SIs on SB or SV, honest! Then he made friends as well as you might expect. He sincerely thought he was pwning Wildbow's idea with this thing. “god dammnit, why was a 10 year old sleeping with magical girls” you know why divabot fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 18:53
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Poor thread, getting abandoned over and over. This is a big old chapter, and kind of daunting to tackle, so I'm cutting it in half. Chapter 30: Working in Groups, Pt 1 J. K. Rowling if a man tries to bother you, you can think blue, count two, and look for a red shoe. (I actually missed the reference, and had to google. Cordwainer Smith, apparently. Not a fan) Time to get our battle school on. HPMOR posted:The day was Sunday, November 3rd, and soon the three great powers of their school year, Harry Potter, Draco Malfoy, and Hermione Granger, would begin their struggle for supreme dominance. 1. Who are the Gryffindors? A reference to something that happened earlier in the fanfic / books? A more obscure reference of some sort? 2. Why is everyone watching? Seriously. I get why People in the battle school watch... well, not the games, IIRC, but the scoreboard, because they're all part of some army. People in the HP universe watch Quidditch for the same reason we watch any sport - team loyalty, be it to a house or a country. But (spoiler alert) we're going to find out the armies are all composed of a mix from every house, so that's not it. I suppose our hero quote:The students were dressed, not in their ordinary school robes, but in Muggle camouflage uniforms that Professor Quirrell had obtained somewhere and supplied in sufficient quantity and variety to fit everyone. This is the image that greets you on the HPmor homepage:  Voldermort's army. Creepier than the author intended, probably. Harriezer is forced to allow Draco to command the Dragon army (get it?), thus crushing his long-held dreams of cosplaying as a manipulated, maladjusted, under-aged genocidal serial-killer. At least in that respect. Draco's army wear an "understated and elegant" fire insignia. His troops use Auror battle formations in a defensive perimeter around himself, which (rushing ahead) work for adults who have been training to fight specifically in that formation for years, covering each other and the like. Harriezer uses this as a lesson about following traditions or "how things are done" without really considering why things are done that way, and how they ought to change in your particular context. Hermione commands the Sunshine army, wearing a smilie insignia. Their "we're so nice" gimmick is actually fairly neat. Skipping over a Star Wars reference, Harriezer goes with "Chaos Legion", wearing the insignia of snapping fingers, because of course they are. His soldiers are encouraged to use their initiative and disregard his orders, unless he prefaces them with "Merlin Says". Even with that little caveat: quote:Fast. Creative. Unpredictable. Non-homogenous. Don't just obey orders, think about whether what you're doing right now makes sense. Yeah, that's not a thing Harriezer would do. It's a thing Ender would do, because he (ostensibly) values his soldiers and does not explicitly think of them as NPCs in a videogame. Harriezer reflects that Quirrel's "arbitrarily" composing the armies from different houses reflects the Robbers Cave experiment. In Yud's version of events, the two groups became hostile to each other merely due to being separated into distinct groups, rather than due to competing for limited resources (the other members of each army besides the generals don't really have a stake in the conflict, besides the prestige, which... see above about why anyone would care or watch). Also, Harriezer completely fails to consider why the arbitrary division into Houses exists in the first place. (Then again, in the HPMOR universe, it's ostensibly a bit less arbitrary) Anyways, the idea that the armies will now form distinct and new group identities based on arbitrary division leads Harriezer to conclude that: quote:Professor Quirrell, despite his affected Dark atmosphere and his pretense of neutrality in the conflict between Good and Evil, was secretly backing Good, not that Harry would ever dare say that out loud. Meanwhile, Draco is told: quote:that if he wanted to be the first Malfoy to gain complete political control of the country, he needed to learn how to govern the other three-quarters of the population. It was things like this which reassured Draco that Professor Quirrell had a great deal more sympathy for the good guys than Professor Quirrell was letting on. Both sides expect Hermione to attack Draco, then Harriezer will get to mop up the remains, maybe rescuing her in the process. I wonder how this first battle will actually unfold. Also, this kid's movie I'm watching has just had a girl join the sports team (there's no rule against it!) and I'm pretty sure she's going to suck at sports. Anyways, here's Harriezer's full speech to his troops (Draco's is literally "stay by your mates, and do as we practiced", which I rather like, and we're not privy to Hermione's). Like a lot of MOR stuff, it starts out semi-interesting, and then just drags on. Feel free to point out any references: So random! XD posted:My troops, I'm not going to lie to you, our situation today is very grim. Dragon Army has never lost a single battle. And Hermione Granger... has a very good memory. The truth is, most of you are probably going to die. And the survivors will envy the dead. But we have to win this. We have to win this so that someday, our children can enjoy the taste of chocolate again. Everything is at stake here. Literally everything. If we lose, the whole universe just blinks out like a light bulb. And now I realize that most of you don't know what a light bulb is. Well, take it from me, it's bad. But if we have to go down, let's go down fighting, like heroes, so that as the darkness closes in, we can think to ourselves, at least we had fun. Are you afraid to die? I know I am. I can feel those cold shivers of fear like someone is pumping ice cream into my shirt. But I know... that history is watching us. It was watching us when we changed into our uniforms. It was probably taking pictures. And history, my troops, is written by the victors. If we win this, we can write our own history. A history in which Hogwarts was founded by four renegade house elves. We can make everyone study that history, even though it isn't true, and if they don't answer the right way on our tests... they'll fail the class. Isn't that worth dying for? No, don't answer that. Some things are better left unknown. None of us know why we're here. None of us know why we're fighting. We just woke up in these uniforms in this mysterious forest, knowing only that there was no way to get our names and memories back except victory. The students in those other armies out there... they're just like us. They don't want to die. They're fighting to protect each other, the only friends they have left. They're fighting because they know they have families who'll miss them, even if they can't remember now. They may even be fighting to save the world. But we have a better reason to fight than they do. We fight because we like it. We fight to amuse eldritch monstrosities from beyond Space and Time. We fight because we're Chaos. Soon the final battle will begin, so let me say now, because I won't get a chance later, that it was an honor to be your commander, however briefly. Thank you, thank you all. And remember, your goal isn't just to cut down the enemy, it's to make them afraid! Both Dragon and Chaos send out broomstick reconnaissance teams. They return with the news that Hermione had divided her forces in two, including the broomsticks, and is attacking both armies. quote:Then Harry realized. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 01:48
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HIJK posted:I could have gone my whole life without reading this But what kind of life would it have been?
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Feb 26, 2017 11:53
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Chapter 30: Working in Groups, Pt 1 (Pt 2) Neville is in Harry's army, obviously: quote:Harry had said quite a lot of things to Neville in private, starting with "You know, Neville, if you want to become as awesome as the imaginary Neville who lives in your head but isn't allowed to do anything because you're scared, then you really should sign up for Professor Quirrell's armies." quote:The tune [of the Chaos march] was what a Muggle would have identified as John Williams's Imperial March, also known as "Darth Vader's Theme"; and the words Harry had added were easy to remember. Both halves of Sunshine charge their respective opponents and get cut down with sleep spells. Broomsticks are lit up with Luminos to signify a hit, so someone cares at least marginally about student safety. Harriezer is very happy he didn't have to hit Hermione, though she'd doubtless be very upset if she found out he thinks that way. Geez lady, it's just perfectly rational  quote:"Prepare yourselves!" roared Draco at his troops. "Stay together with your mates, act as a unit, fire as soon as the enemy is in range!" quote:"Blood for the blood god! " screamed Neville. "Skulls for the skull throne! Ia! Shub-Niggurath! The enemy's gate is sideways! " Foreshadowing and "badassery" established, Neville manages to sneakily drop a few Dragons, then leaves the narrative for the chapter. quote:And Neville got to his feet, panting. He knew he should be moving, people were yelling "Somnium!" all over the place - quote:"Luminos! " cried one of the boys next to Harry, who hadn't been able to rebuild the magical strength fast enough to do it earlier, and Mr. Goyle dodged it without a pause. Anyways, Harriezer has to convince himself to stop thinking of ways to kill Goyle. Instead, he beam spams him into oblivion, then passes out. When he wakes up (passing out does not count as being defeated) it's just him, a few remaining Chaos soldiers, and Draco inside a protective prismatic shell that none of the Chaos soldiers can pierce. Harriezer pulls out a car battery out of his pouch (???), but before we can start on what would probably be an amazingly stupid bit of reasoning as to what that's supposed to do, a blast of energy slams into Draco's shield from the darkness of the forest. quote:"You know, General Granger," Harry said out loud, "you really should've waited to attack until after I'd fought General Malfoy. You might've been able to get all the survivors." If only the rest of the book was about Hermione repeatedly dunking on Draco and Harriezer. Thus ever to douchebags. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 01:39
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Xander77 posted:1. Who are the Gryffindors? A reference to something that happened earlier in the fanfic / books? A more obscure reference of some sort? Xander77 posted:2. Why is everyone watching? Seriously. I get why Xander77 posted:People in the HP universe watch Quidditch for the same reason we watch any sport - team loyalty, be it to a house or a country. But (spoiler alert) we're going to find out the armies are all composed of a mix from every house, so that's not it. Xander77 posted:Yeah, that's not a thing Harriezer would do. It's a thing Ender would do, because he (ostensibly) values his soldiers and does not explicitly think of them as NPCs in a videogame. Xander77 posted:Chapter 30: Working in Groups, Pt 1 (Pt 2)
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Feb 27, 2017 03:48
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Yup, that's what a battle scene written by a person with a very limited knowledge of military tactics and no need to be bounded by it's limitations works.
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Feb 27, 2017 03:56
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This is around where I stopped reading, many years ago. The premise of magic + science I thought was intriguing, but I was young and didn't know enough about actual science to be able to dispute the bad science previously in the story. I picked up on Elizarry being a poo poo, but apparently selectively forgot/didn't notice the more heinous stuff, but it was kind of wearing my patience thin anyway and I just wanted more magi-sci shenanigans instead of moronic monologues and pointless posturing and generally everyone being lovely. This part was where I realized the author really had no intention of actually delivering on the premise, and also where the 'lol random XD' factor went up by a million and also the pointless references to nerd pop-culture. Also it committed the most heinous sin a fanfic could to my teen mind, in that it changed too much from the original for no good reason.
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Feb 27, 2017 04:08
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Monocled Falcon posted:Yup, that's what a battle scene written by a person with a very limited knowledge of military tactics and no need to be bounded by it's limitations works. quote:Fast. Creative. Unpredictable. Non-homogenous. Don't just obey orders, think about whether what you're doing right now makes sense. This is a long-running problem with Big Yud and his ilk - they think there's a revolution in thought just around the corner, if only people would stop clinging to what "non-logical" people tell them to do. And it's baffling to them why everyone is doing X when Y is superior(in a hyper-logical theoretical scenario that would never occur in the real world). They're really desperate to take a Great Men of History approach to science and philosophy(with themselves as the Great Men, of course), but lack the thought & life experience that lets you realize why it takes more than Great Men to change the world. Or to realize why their ideas are bullshit in the first place. 
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Feb 27, 2017 04:28
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Haha! So, two teams were coordinated and had a plan and the third team actively encouraged non-coordination and had no real plan. The forces were all roughly equal strength as well? At least Yuddy Pottowski didn't win. His force should have been broken by Hermione's feint, really.
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Feb 27, 2017 05:16
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Haifisch posted:They're really desperate to take a Great Men of History approach to science and philosophy(with themselves as the Great Men, of course), but lack the thought & life experience that lets you realize why it takes more than Great Men to change the world. Or to realize why their ideas are bullshit in the first place. I'd disagree with that. They seem far more towards the side of historical inevitability, with their Big Concept being singularitianism rather than marxism. And since history will inevitably prove you right, you're correct by being on the correct side.
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Feb 27, 2017 05:37
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Tiggum posted:It's perfectly consistent for him to say he values individuality though. quote:"Stay together with your mates" seems like an incredibly unlikely thing for Draco to say. He doesn't talk like that. Anyways, Chapter 31: Working in Groups, Pt 2 Harriezer has absolutely no idea how Hermione could possibly have come up with this absolutely brilliant and highly complex stratagem (and other strategies we didn't actually get to see in the last chapter): quote:Harry paced backward and forward in his general's office, which made a wonderful room for pacing, it didn't have any other uses as far as he could tell. Quirrel also forbidden the use of tech in battles. Prudent, though I was looking forward to stuff like bungie chords (or whatever Bean used to zip around the battle room). quote:Battles counted for a lot of Quirrell points if you were a general, and Harry needed to get cracking if he wanted to win Professor Quirrell's Christmas wish. Meanwhile, Draco: quote:stared off into space, as though the wall in front of his desk was the most fascinating surface in the world. quote:With sudden horrified realization, Draco swept papers out of the way, hunting through the mess on his desk, until he found it. And now for the triumphant and shocking conclusion: quote:"How long do you think it will take Malfoy to figure it out?" said General Granger.
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Feb 27, 2017 11:25
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Of course, 'make the other two sides think you've been defeated by playing dead' is far too impractical to work. Though a lot of writers rely on this kind of elaborate deception scheme to have the heroes win small unit battles. I wonder what would happen in a Fan fiction written by a West Point graduate.
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Feb 28, 2017 04:22
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Monocled Falcon posted:Of course, 'make the other two sides think you've been defeated by playing dead' is far too impractical to work. Though a lot of writers rely on this kind of elaborate deception scheme to have the heroes win small unit battles. https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8019901/1/Of-Sheep-and-Battle-Chicken
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Feb 28, 2017 04:27
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Cat Army 
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Monocled Falcon posted:Of course, 'make the other two sides think you've been defeated by playing dead' is far too impractical to work. Of course, real children would immediately be complaining to the adult who organised it that lying down when you haven't been hit is unfair and shouldn't be allowed rather than congratulating the winner on their excellent strategy.
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Feb 28, 2017 05:36
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Chapter 32: Interlude: Personal Financial Management Which is exactly as fascinating as it sounds. Quirrel takes Harry out Christmas shopping. Except he doesn't "do" Christmas, so humorous banter ahoy. Actual plots points: quote:"I'm sorry, Harry," said Dumbledore, "and I do apologize, but allowing you control over your own finances would give you far too much independence of action." quote:"I do hope those five Galleons will be enough to last, since you counted them so carefully," said Professor Quirrell. "I doubt the Headmaster shall be so eager to entrust me with your vault key a second time, once he discovers I've been tricked." I'm not sure if we ever find out exactly how Harriezer "tricked" Quirrell or the Goblins. He also figures out that century-old institutions that have been serving the entire magic world might have some sort of protection against the very first get-rich-quick scheme dreamed up by an eleven year old, so we cut off that nascent plot thread (at least for the duration of the narrative - Harriezer still plans for the future as though exploiting the wizarding economy to generate unlimited funds is a given). ... Oh yeah. When Harriezer passed out during the battle, he stopped sustaining his transfiguration. Probably worth mentioning, since transfiguration shenanigans are one of the few plot threads that actually amount to something. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 18:25
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Tiggum posted:Even in a laser tag war between children? One kid, playing dead til some other players pass him so he can shoot them in the back is one thing. But two entire groups of kids all falling down without really being hit, with no one finding it odd, and all of them staying completely still for an extended period. And all of the kids trusting each other despite never fighting together before?
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Mar 1, 2017 03:03
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Monocled Falcon posted:One kid, playing dead til some other players pass him so he can shoot them in the back is one thing. But two entire groups of kids all falling down without really being hit, with no one finding it odd, and all of them staying completely still for an extended period. And all of the kids trusting each other despite never fighting together before? It's magic!
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Mar 1, 2017 04:34
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Xander77 posted:Poor thread, getting abandoned over and over. 
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Mar 1, 2017 06:26
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Sorry, my reply got eaten by Chrome three times. Also, I stopped caring. Thanks Xander77!
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Mar 1, 2017 18:42
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Added Space posted:Thanks Xander77!
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Mar 1, 2017 20:43
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Xander77 posted:Do HP universe wizards require "magical strength" or stamina or whatever? No. No they do not. That people think that this is the case is probably the number one thing Fanfiction Gets Wrong About Harry Potter Canon once you get past the obvious junk. This is, of course, why MoR includes it because if you've gotten all of your HP knowledge from fanfiction then of course you'll think that wizards have Magical Power Levels and MP gauges and whatnot. If you take even the briefest look at the books, you'll find that a wizard/witch's ability is expressed purely in terms of skill and knowledge. Voldemort is scary not because he's some magical prodigy who can unleash Ninth Level Spells Four Times Per Day, but because he's really good at reliably casting a whole bunch of scary rear end crap. This also includes him being good at scary rear end crap that your average person is less familiar with, which just adds to the terror he creates. The other half of Voldemort being goddamned scary is his charisma. Voldemort is bad enough, but he was able to convince a whole lot of awful people willing to hurt, torture, and kill in his name. Dumbledore has all of that on the protagnist's side, which is why Dumbledore's The Only One He Ever Feared (tm). This is borne out when you look at plot points. Harry wins the day through courage, spirit, love, and knowledge. Not because he's A Chosen One With +5 in Casting, but because he doesn't back down and keeps fighting. The only two "exceptions" to this aren't even that. Wands are stated to have an aptitude for various disciplines, but this is both not really quantified or even qualified, and also no different from someone having a more logical/creative/whatever mind that inclines them towards certain subjects. I mean, the canon example of this are Harry's parents. The extent of James Potter's Transfiguration achievements is learning to be an Animagus. That's rare and difficult, sure, but also kinda explicitly doesn't require a wand. Lily Evans, meanwhile, is noted as being excellent at Potions, despite her wand being best suited for Charms. The other exception is magic that requires emotion, but even then that's shown to be a matter of emotional control than anything else. Sure, you need a happy memory for the Patronus Charm. You also need the ability to understand what a truly happy memory with associated feelings strong enough to conjure an actual corporeal protector is. You also need the ability to calmly and quickly summon up that memory and feeling at need--and when you most need it is when your emotions are most under attack. All of that speaks to the Patronus, properly cast, requiring an incredibly high degree of mental control and focus as opposed to some Power Level. Harry's not exceptional because oh he's so strong that he can make a corporeal patronus at age thirteen. He's exceptional because he can demonstrate that degree of of focus and control as a freaking teenager. The Unforgivables work the same way. One needs to absolutely and completely desire the outcome of the curse to pull it off. Crouch/Moody states in GoF something along the lines of "even if all of you cast [the Killing Curse] at me right here at once, you wouldn't give me more than a nosebleed", while Bellatrix mocks Harry because righteous anger seeking justice isn't the emotion you need to cast the Cruciatus, it's an extreme desire to make the target suffer. All of that, again, requires a high degree of mental focus to pull off on call. It's also what makes the Death Eaters so terrifying: they're evil and amoral enough to actually do these things reliably. Interestingly enough, we see this same sort of emotional intent magic back in the first book. Harry gets the Stone from the mirror when Quirrel/Voldemort doesn't because he just wants the Stone out of the Mirror of Erised. He doesn't want gold or the Elixir of Life or anything. There's a very clear specific result he's intending in order to pull that off. Voldemort, meanwhile, just wants the effects of the Stone so he can't get it. It turns out that this is a theme for the whole drat series, with Harry seeking an outcome as opposed to simply the means to accomplish that outcome. By the way, all of the above? Nothing about using magic exhausts the user or has any sort of physical effect on them beyond what waving your arm and saying words would do. No one runs out of strength and needs to hide behind cover so they can fire another spell or anything. People get tired, sure, but that's because they're running around and being under stress, not because they didn't pack enough Ethers to last the dungeon or whatever. All of this crap speaks to Harry Potter magic being a learned discipline where someone needs practice, focus, and dedication in order to accomplish great things. Not innate power or whatnot, but by simply being a dedicated student always looking to improve. Naturally, MoR completely misses this aspect of it, choosing to concentrate on the wacky and random aspects of the world (and overdoing it). Like, the world as is in the books is already ripe for a rational, scientific mind to excel for good or for ill. Rather than make a fanfic based off of that world, instead we have an author making fanfic based off of people who didn't understand that aspect of the series and resulting in...this.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:18
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Trasson posted:All of this crap speaks to Harry Potter magic being a learned discipline where someone needs practice, focus, and dedication in order to accomplish great things. So the complete, total opposite of how Yudkowsky sees the world.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:30
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There is exactly one exception that implies harry potter has MP - according to JK's old website, accidental magic happens when kids bottle up their magic for long periods of time and have no release for it, so eventually it bursts out uncontrollably. But that's a weird effect and not really related to anything else.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:10
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| # ? May 17, 2024 17:35 |
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in which canon Harry Potter characters meet their HPMOR versions Meeting Your Not-So Fun-House Reflections by Kronecker Delta Hogwarts had been in something of a conundrum following the sudden and unexpected duplication of several students. Aurors had arrived and quickly surmised that it hadn’t been a frightful misuse of time turners… nor any sort of chronomancy on the books. Ultimately they agreed with Dumbledore’s suggestion to put up the doubles together to keep track of them till they could fashion a counter spell and send them all home. Though that led to its own complications… *** “So Harry, what does my counter universe double do for entertainment around here? I noticed that you seem to have a surprisingly small amount books in your room. Did you commit the entire works of our favorite sci-fi authors to memory? I had considered doing that myself of course, but I decided against the endeavor based on the fact that so few of them properly understood the implications of the work they were doing. Heinlein in particularly did not understand the disservice he performed by writing in such a method that he…” Harry Potter nodded along, dazed and completely baffled by the constant string of nonsense coming out of the mouth of his other self. He’d heard the question at the start, but everything after that seemed to be just talking about himself. Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres of course, not Harry Potter. To at long, long last the conversation slowed down and he found his own eyes staring at him waiting for an answer. “Uh… I like quidditch I guess? They made an exception for me and I’m-” “You like quidditch!!!” Harry snarled out like a dark and terrible curse that could curdle milk and cause miscarriages across the county. “But… how? It’s a completely nonsensical sport! Not even one with decent tactics and strategy like… like…” Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres didn’t actually know of any sports really, but he was hardly going to admit that to this invalid that shared his genetic structure. “Like football? American football? Uh… chess?” Harry at last guessed in vain, hoping that the fit his other self was now undergoing would come to a stop. “Yes! Like chess, at least that sport as some measure of Rational skill involved!” Harry could hear the capitalization in the word rational, but for the life of him couldn’t tell why it was there. “So, do you hang out with Ron then and play chess?” “What, that insipid quidditch loving idiot? Of course not, he hardly as a reason to exist. No, my best friend is Draco and we…” Harry wasn’t listening. Instead a new voice came from within. A terrible dark presence over shadowing his soul. It was unmistakable by its putrid smell. Too sweet syrup and crisp bacon followed in its wake. His inner Dudley spoke, “What an utter prat. Are you going to take that from him?” Harry shook his head, trying to dispel that force. Interrupting the other Harry mid anti-Ron rant, “Come on quidditch isn’t that bad… I play seeker and-” Only for himself to be cut off as he was grabbed by the shoulders and shook “YOU PLAY IT!?! Are you well… have you… oh dear Bayes, you must have taken a hit to the head. My alternate self is a retarded invalid from a sports injury!!!” “Come on Harry, don’t be a little wuss! Lay into this loser… I bet he’ll just break down and start crying from just a tap!” Dudley was getting harder to ignore as not-Harry pawed his head looking for the signs of a fracture while muttering out curses that the nanobots weren’t ready yet. It was going to be a long week before they fixed this… *** “So… me, how are things going for you,” Hermione asked. Her Ravenclaw self smiled and began to list off her accomplishments. “Well I’m the top of all my classes, just like you I presume. I excel at wand work and theoretical studies,” she said as Hermione nodded along. Finding it somewhat nice to have someone to talk to that mirrored herself so closely. “Oh… and I might be dating Harry. Are you dating Harry?” Or maybe not. “Wha… what?! No, why would I… what?” “Oh, well everyone in the school decided that we were the two smartest students, and since he’s clearly the hero they decided I should date him.” “So… just don’t?” Hermione said, still not grasping what she was hearing. Not entirely sure she could grasp it honestly. She wasn’t even sure she wanted to. “Why does it matter if they think you’re dating?” “Because it ties me to Harry, which is fine I suppose. He’s quite smart… a little scary sometimes but-” “Wait, scary?” “Well, Harry just doesn’t like to be wrong you know? Or to have anyone disagree with him ever,” the Ravenclaw Hermione said staring off into the distance with a haunted look in her eyes. “And you think you should date him?” “Do I have a choice? He is the hero after all.” Hermione didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. *** “So how are things working for you,” Malfoy asked. Receiving a wicked sneer of a smile from himself in return. “Quite well most honorable son of the House of Malfoy.” “Nice… I’ve got to remember that one. Little wordy, but I can work with it,” Malfoy thought. Now that there were two of him he could… Except there were two Potters and two Grangers and… Okay, so maybe numbers weren’t on his side. But who didn’t ever want to have a friend that was basically just themselves? “So what have you been up to in your world anyway?” Malfoy asked Malfoy. “Well, I managed to form a friendship with Potter. Which should increase my standing and that of my family… father approves of course,” he answered. Surprising Draco not because of what he said but how he said it. He’d of course tried to integrate himself into Potter’s good graces as well. And then failed. But This other him spoke of it in an odd way. That just didn’t sound right. “Good, so he’s not hanging around Ron Weasley then?” “Ha! By Merlin, he’s certainly not! I haven’t even seen that poor worthless boy around anywhere. Perhaps a moving staircase swallowed him up and ground him into a fine paste without anyone noticing?” Draco shared a laugh that he didn’t quite feel. He didn’t like Ron at all… but having such an unpleasant end described to him was a little stomach churning. He decided to change the subject. “So how did you get to be friends with Harry anyway?” “Oh, that was easy. We met when he was buying his school supplies. He got me with a bit of social manipulation by pretending to be someone other than himself to put me off guard. But I managed to recover without having to threaten him,” Malfoy said, while a Draco’s eyes widened in horror. “Then we met at the train. Had a good laugh at Ron’s expense and spent the whole train ride over talking.” “That’s good…” “Oh yes, he’s quite agreeable. We shared a good laugh over that bitch Luna Lovegood and her stupid paper too. Told Harry how I plan to rape her one day.” Draco’s world was suddenly very, very small. There was his right hand, five fingers curling around his wand. The wood warm to his quivering touch. His heart pounding in his chest. And before him there was a monster masquerading as himself. It was a demon wearing his own skin… and it was close enough for those shiny white teeth to rip out his throat. “Th- that’s quite good. Quite good indeed,” Draco said, suddenly wishing he was anywhere but there. In detention with Filch, being chastised by his mother for flying a broom inside the house… being reprimanded by Snape. Hell, he even wished he’d been sorted into Gryffindor. And as he bravely kept from running in terror, he even sort of deserved it. “So… how about I go get us something to eat? You are our guest after all.” “That sounds wonderful,” Malfoy said. At which point Draco calmly left his room, walking with care so as to not show the weakness he felt in his legs. Till he hit the commons room and began running towards Snape’s office. Desperate to warn someone. *** Crabbe and Goyle looked over to Crabbe and Goyle. It was a long mutual stare of respect. “So, we understand that you two wanted to discuss how to be a good minion.” The other pair nodded to the first. “Well, I think we need to introduce you to a little muggle comic book called Batman, and some of the examples within,” Mr. Crabbe began to count them off on his fingers. “Two face is great for a number of reasons, Penguin is good example of who you’d like to work for, and of course reading about the Joker is full of safety tips.” “Indeed, Mr. Crabbe. We’ve found that copying the way it teaches you to deal with bosses with big egos and bigger plans to be quite… illuminating.” “It will also show you how to keep your cool when the boss decides to go on some rant about how he hates a dame and wants to kill her for no reason,” Mr. Crabbe replied, looking like he wished to break character. The other two shared a glance, and after a moment concluded together who their alternate selves had been speaking of. “Malfoy’s never… ever done anything like that.” “Not even once… no plans to trick people into his house and…” Goyle gave a motion with his thumb around his throat that was universally understood. “Does he even have his dead bird collection?” The pair of horrified faces shaking their heads together started the gears turning in Mr. Goyle’s and Mr. Crabbe’s heads. After a moment they asked, “So… do you think your parents might like to have twins?”
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Mar 1, 2017 23:34
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