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Wallet Inspector posted:Archer suck and are bad in FE games, and no bow damage buff or terrain immunity is fixing that. That said, this level is all fliers, so they're much less bad in this one. I had an effort post but it just seems easier to say you're wrong and bad at Fire Emblem (Fates).
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Mar 2, 2017 05:37
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| # ? May 8, 2024 20:27 |
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I don't think anyone's using scrolls at this rate for the rest of the game, outside of kids magic is so bad
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Mar 2, 2017 05:41
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Vilkacis already proved that archers can be good if they got decent growths and Takumi's a perfect example of it. Him being one of the guys and getting an absurdly good weapon for being a male royal is only further reinforcement.
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Mar 2, 2017 05:41
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Wallet Inspector posted:Archer suck and are bad in FE games, and no bow damage buff or terrain immunity is fixing that. That said, this level is all fliers, so they're much less bad in this one. While I generally agree with you (crippling overspecialization!), Fates has probably the strongest incarnation of Archers thus far; if nothing else, they actually have weapons that can attack at 1 Range now.
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Mar 2, 2017 05:42
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Archer's are pretty bad in LTC and EP focused games. Even the raw power of archers in Fates doesn't deal with the fact that bows don't usually counter at 1 range. Attack Stance is a nice idea, but pair up can often give you speed/str to one-round things anyway, so it's a wash. That said, efficiency is a drag and Takumi is point, click, delete. Real fun to use. I don't usually bother with Rebecca/Neimi because they have awful bases and take a while to catch up, but Takumi's good out of the box.
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Mar 2, 2017 05:43
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Huh, I didn't notice how Sakura's magic stat had been steadily creeping up and is actually tied with Orochi at the same level. A pity she can't effectively use it yet, but if/when she promotes she's going to have some firepower on hand. I think archers in this game have a nice perk over many strength oriented classes since they don't lose 5 speed the way a Javelin or Hand Axe user would. Combine that with their weapon triangle bonus over "Hidden" weapons and effective damage against flyers and you have enough reasons to bring 1-2 depending on enemy layout. I'd bring archers over magic users in this game. Magic is very weak, and very few pure magic users are worth it.
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Mar 2, 2017 06:06
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Mysticblade posted:Archer's are pretty bad in LTC and EP focused games. Even the raw power of archers in Fates doesn't deal with the fact that bows don't usually counter at 1 range. Attack Stance is a nice idea, but pair up can often give you speed/str to one-round things anyway, so it's a wash. If you're using DLC though, this does change, because Point Blank turns Takumi into a monster who can 1-2 range with the best of them. Edit: Magic is solid in Fates, a specific Hoshidan Weapon is almost as, if not more, stupid than the Guard Naginata in terms of stat buffs, and most enemies, especially in Birthright, have lower Res than Def. Most of the default magic users have bad flaws though, which is an attempt to balance them. Orochi is very slow (fixable, but slow) and Hayato has bad bases overall and comes way underlevelled. A Magic boon Dark Knight or Malig Knight Corrin is the best way to see how strong Magic can be when you give it to a unit who can double and has good bulk. Wallet Inspector fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 06:12
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The shining bow (a Nohr exclusive bow) allows bow users to attack at 1-2 range.
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Mar 2, 2017 06:13
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Hunt11 posted:The shining bow (a Nohr exclusive bow) allows bow users to attack at 1-2 range. But this isn't the Nohr route, so it won't be relevant for a while.
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Mar 2, 2017 06:16
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On the other hand, archers not deleting everything on enemy phase isn't the worst thing so that they'll stop hogging exp. If Takumi got kills in enemy phase he'd probably easily slam into the level cap or start draining experience that could go to units that need it more. Mages generally have defensive flaws and ninjas have to deal with low Mt on their weapons and more difficulty killing bow/axe units.
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Mar 2, 2017 16:39
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C Support  The fella everyone says is some kind of genius?  But we were raised worlds apart, so we don't really have much in common after all.  Are you mocking me?!  That sounds like such a pain in the neck.Voting will end soon.
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Mar 2, 2017 18:21
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I voted for Takumi cause I don't like him plus it's pretty clear how strong he is, so I'd like to give some love to other characters who aren't Takumi  .
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Mar 2, 2017 18:42
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Tae posted:I don't think anyone's using scrolls at this rate for the rest of the game, outside of kids Orochi ended up being one of my most useful units on my Birthright run just because of the sheer overwhelming bullshit power of a certain scroll, plus the hordes of slow, high DEF/low RES enemies Birthright's lategame throws at you. In Conquest there's only one mage that isn't borderline unusable though, and most of the hybrid units that can use tomes almost never have a reason to.
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Mar 2, 2017 22:00
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C Support  Someone told me once I should use utensils when eating with you people. You were such a pathetic pegasus rider when you were younger! I really need to go use the bathroom...  You like working the fields too, Saizo?Voting's over. Setsuna, Hana, Hinata, Rinkah, Takumi, and Saizo are out. Give any feedback if you want single or multi-vote in the future.
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Mar 2, 2017 22:10
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Tae posted:
Azama, maybe you should learn to shut up before someone actually follows through on one of those threats... Tae posted:
Well, at least Kagero's saner than Saizo. I mean, more logical reason to follow the Avatar around, AND allows him privacy? Tae posted:
Well, at least Saizo's CAPABLE of being helpful rather than paranoid from time to time. Now if only he'd exercise that capability more often, I might like him better. Tae posted:Voting's over. Setsuna, Hana, Hinata, Rinkah, Takumi, and Saizo are out. Give any feedback if you want single or multi-vote in the future. drat you, other voters!  Anyway, I kinda preferred multi-voting, really.
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Mar 2, 2017 22:26
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Yeah I think I liked multi voting better too. Poor bow users, left out of your best map 
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Mar 3, 2017 00:31
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 No Setsuna or Takumi. I bet that plays awkwardly in-game. "We will go forward without you Takumi" "Uh, but all these fliers-" "FORWARD. WITHOUT. YOU"  Anyways, the first thing is activating this map's gimmick which are basically twister shields. They limit flying units' movements within that area, so they prevent swarming.   There's a few promoted enemies like this Malig Knight that are incredibly tough to take down, even with debuffs. Usually not a problem with bows but welp. Of course the game planned for possible bad voting!   Oh my. Look at them struggling with those spirits. Well, I should be able to help them with that! May my bow strike true and deliver exquisite pain and death upon my enemies! Hi, who are you murder mcbowster  Hello, Lord Corrin. I'm glad you're safe and sound. I'm sorry, but who are you? And do you realize that we're in the middle of a battle? Oh, yes, of course. But this type of battle is like a playground to me. I'm Reina, a kinshi knight from Hoshido. Yukimura sent me here to provide you with my special brand of assistance. Specifically, skewering enemies by the dozen. Oh, I wish you could have seen some of the work I did on the way here.  Mmm... Uh... What? I'm talking about the enemies I killed on the way here. Ah. I see. And you're not going to kill any of us, right? Just our enemies? Of course! I'm sorry if you misunderstood. Please, just point me in the direction of anything you would like to die. Right. Well, anyone glowing purple would be a good start...  Morbid Celebration-When user triggers the battle, recover 20% HP after defeating the enemy Reina is a Kinshi Knight, a promotion for Sky Knights and Archers. The Lances are decent, but the real prize is that they're extremely mobile bow users that are useful in impossible terrain like this map for outside the ship combat.  She's mostly useful to take down the promoted bosses, because she gets a paltry 4 EXP from killing the grunts instead. Still useful to set up dual attacks for weaker units to get kills.   Normally I'd be annoyed with a crit, but taking out the Malig Knight in one shot will save me a lot of trouble, because getting rushed in is the biggest obstacle of this mission.   Corrin one-shots some Wyvern Riders on the defensive as I split up my team to cover the north and south.  Basically every turn for the next few turns, a few enemy reinforcements will arrive throughout the map.  Orochi gets a free kill to start off the turn.   This nearby Kinshi Knight is a huge threat to the team, with big power off that Yumi and enough speed to double most of the team.  Hinoka ends the preparatory turn by activating the second Dragon Vein, furthering the defenses of the boat.   A quick counter-attacks nets Silas some HP, which is good because I was getting worried my semi-tank couldn't actually handle hits at some point.  The power of Ninjas come full force, as Kaze takes a full health promoted unit from 31 HP to 9 with its stats heavily debuffed.  Also Kaze is now an HP sponge in Fates terms. The hell?   Mozu eliminates the first Kinshi Knight with ease. I say first because another popped up as reinforcement last turn.   Mozu decides to spend her time just upping defense  Meanwhile, Corrin one-shots a couple more Wyverns and gains...speed again??? Now he has more speed than defense with the literal opposite banes and boons  Quick elimination by Silas here as the rest of the team moves towards the middle in the safety of the tornado wall.  Mozu finishes off the second Kinshi Knight after the combined efforts of Oboro and Corrin chipping away at it. These things are incredibly hard to kill when you have no axes and these units have extremely high resistance. Also got an Illusory Yumi-C rank, 8 mt, 65 hit, -10 avoid, +10 RES In case you really hate mages.  Orochi is continuing to do her one job of doing a huge nuke one enemy at a time.   However, not that great of a plan against non-Wyverns. This is after Kagero debuffed it, so Orochi's damage is worse than shown.   Some house cleaning on the top, but they just keep on coming. The reinforcements are currently coming in 4's.   Kaze will rotate in and fight the north half, with Oboro getting residual EXP for a level.   Okay I guess all my ninjas are just gonna be HP sponges???  Hinoka is now patrolling the outskirts of the boat, and interestingly, enemies start retreating if they're low on HP. Presumably to bait you out on the rest of the enemies waiting in the west.  The majority of the remaining mission will take place here, as the enemies will start swarming at this point.   It turns out when you literally don't have axe, bow, and only 2 sword users, Wyvern Riders are actually kind of annoying!  Hand Axes are so crippling that Orochi is doubling someone!  ...Yeah, Corrin isn't taking that on.  Alright, Reina. Time for you to shi-   ......how  DO IT RIGHT THIS TIME  christ, seriously what were the chances of missing twice   Oboro's becoming a good tank, I just need her to gain some speed once in a while. Good bases can only go so far in the 3DS games.   Just assume Oboro made every kill possible. Felicia has some absurdly high magic now, wow.   The "boss" is pretty drat tough to deal that much to Oboro, when the rest of the physical attackers barely sratch her. Star version weapons are enemy only and basically mean they're 1-2 range.  Reina, please just don't miss this time  YES  Nevermind Got an Arm Scroll though, so reclassing will be less painful now.  Just barely nukey enough   Makes up for Reina   The bronze weapons' high accuracy have been more useful than you'd think, especially when half the useful weapon triangle isn't available. Orochi though decided to miss on Magic for some reason and start shoring up her defense??   So much is hinging on Hinoka hitting, it's ridiculous. This final Kinshi Knight can easily wipe half my army.   Good job gaining magic, Mozu  Heroes is an understatement. Unit Joined Reina  Class sets: Starts as Kinshi Knight (Sky Knight), Diviner, Ninja PSkill: Morbid Celebration-When user triggers the battle, recover 20% HP after defeating the enemy Growth Rates HP: 40 STR: 50 MAG: 5 SKL: 35 SPD: 60 LCK: 25 DEF: 20 RES: 25 Reina is a min-max pre-promote who's purpose is to basically snipe other fliers if for some reason you're not using Setsuna and Takumi. She also has C lances in a pinch, but really only in a pinch. Tae fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Mar 4, 2017 |
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Mar 4, 2017 01:00
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Wow, your Kaze has like 4 more Str/Def at 12 than mine did at 19 when I benched him.
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Mar 4, 2017 01:13
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Seriously, that Kaze is very confused.
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Mar 4, 2017 02:08
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Tae posted:
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Mar 4, 2017 02:44
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Tae posted:
I think you meant Orochi here. But yeah, drat, I'd forgotten how bad that speed penalty on those things could be.
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Mar 4, 2017 02:54
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Reina - Kind of a stopgap in case you don't have anyone else to fill the anit-air role, as Tae already said (she's good at it, don't get me wrong, but there're better units for the job); that said, she's still not as bad at it as some units (Setsuna and her complete lack of Strength, for example) if you just ignore her frailty. Not too fond of her personality, though. I don't know about you guys, but I just find it painful to watch people failing, which is why I at least try to put together a credible team for Tae (and not this "no axes or bows" idiocy you put him through this map). Hopefully this doesn't escalate to the point that he's forced to level grind the units you keep kicking out just so he can have a chance of a credible team...
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Mar 4, 2017 03:33
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Reina is also our first proper 'Corrinsexual' - her ONLY support is with Corrin (and the kid if they marry). Honestly though for that reason I never used her much.
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Mar 4, 2017 03:56
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Badass middle-aged lady characters are cool, but rare, especially playable ones. More games should have them tbh Also wow, 20% HP per kill is pretty good.
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Mar 4, 2017 04:15
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I can't lose with any team on birthright, I'm not worried.
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Mar 4, 2017 05:00
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It is pretty annoying that avatarsexuals in this game cannot support with anyone just the main character, with one exception. You'd think a character like Reina might be fun to bounce off someone else other than our blank state character.
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Mar 4, 2017 05:13
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I like Reina. She's like Henry, except she rides a giant bird and riddles foes with arrows instead of cursing them to death.
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Mar 4, 2017 05:23
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Camel Pimp posted:It is pretty annoying that avatarsexuals in this game cannot support with anyone just the main character, with one exception.
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Mar 4, 2017 05:26
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Camel Pimp posted:It is pretty annoying that avatarsexuals in this game cannot support with anyone just the main character, with one exception. You'd think a character like Reina might be fun to bounce off someone else other than our blank state character.
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Mar 4, 2017 06:02
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Or Orochi, who was also one of Mikoto's retainers.
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Mar 4, 2017 06:09
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Supports are weird. I forgot that Reina showed up here. Good thing she did.
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Mar 4, 2017 06:37
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I have literally never used Reina... or Kinshi Knights. Every time I get to this chapter I put Reina in a corner of the map where she won't draw aggro. No exp for her.
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Mar 4, 2017 08:53
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Weeble posted:I have literally never used Reina... or Kinshi Knights. I can understand not using most pre-promoted units. That said, Kinshi Knights're one of the best classes for anti-air, because they have access to bows AND (spoilered just in case; I don't want to provoke Tae again) have a skill specifically for anti-air (you know the Breaker skills? It's like them, but for fliers); their other skill is a nice bonus, but not necessary on an anti-air unit.
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Mar 4, 2017 09:44
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  Ha! Those stupid things didn't know who they were messing with. Well, I'm glad to see that you're feeling like yourself again. Takumi. Me too.  After all, I have a long way to go to redeem myself... Takumi, that's simply not true. Well technically it's true he didn't do anything  Hey, it's that one Important Spirit  Shh... Look out! Hmm? Lord Takumi! Move!  oh drat  Ugh...now's your chance. Take him out! With pleasure. Haaaa!  *Spirit vanishes*  That did it. Well done...Lord...Takumi... Oh...I forgot. I'm not supposed to say your name... *cough* *cough* Oh. About that... Zola! Are you OK? Took quite a shot there. Here, I can help heal your wounds. Thank you, milady... Hmm. How the hell does healing work, give me consistency Mr. Fates   It was nothing. I'm just glad that Lady Sakura was able to heal me. I beg to differ. It was not nothing. It was a remarkably selfless act. Zola...I have something to say to you. Yes, Lord Tak—I mean yes, milord? Please. You've more than earned the right to speak my name. I'm sorry for doubting you. Really? You mean that? Yes. Talk is cheap, and I still think I was smart not to trust you at first. Thank you, Lord Takumi! I'm just following Lord Corrin's lead. If it weren't for him, I may have died at the hands of Lord Leo in Izumo. Now maybe you'll have the chance to perform a similar gesture. Wait, Corrin jumped in front of an attack meant for you? Right after you tried to kill her? Ha! No, Takumi. It wasn't exactly like that. I merely asked Leo to spare Zola's life. He was helpless and defeated. Yes. And that kindness was enough to sway Lord Leo. He merely exiled me instead of taking my life. I see. Well, I just hope we can put all of this behind us. Of course, milord! Class Overview: Samurai, Apothecary Samurai  .jpg) Pair-up Bonus: +4 SPD, +2 LCK Weapon rank: Swords (B) Skills: (lvl 1) Duelist's Blow-When user triggers the battle, Avoid +30 (lvl 10) Vantage-At the start of battle, when the user has under half HP, they attack first So Samurai in Fates have a similar issue like in the DS games of being super fast, fragile sword-locked fighters but dodging as a whole is very rare to see. They could've filled the niche of being one of the few classes that can reliably get doubles, but then Ninjas and Sky Knights exist and Corrin/Silas already have swords on lockdown. It doesn't help that Hana is incredibly maximum on being fragile and Hinata went the complete opposite way. Apothecary   Pair-up Bonus: +3 STR, +2 DEF, +1 RES Weapon rank: Bows (B) Skills: (lvl 1) Potent Potion-The effect of HP recovery and stat-boosting potions is increased by 50% (lvl 10) Quick Salve-After consuming a HP recovery or stat-boosting potion, the user can perform another action You will never recruit a 1st gen Apothecary, but several characters have it as an alt class and it's kind of a gimmick one. They use bows without the benefit of Quick Draw from Archers, and their abilities basically require you to waste slots on Tonics and save them during battle. Keep in mind Quick Salve doesn't give me extra movement, just a chance to attack or whatever's in range. The only real purpose honestly is to explode Azama's stats into a powerful physical fighter if you Heart Seal him into this. (Still need more feedback on multi vs. single vote)
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Mar 4, 2017 16:31
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I prefer mulit vote, but maybe have it so we can only vote for half the slots. So if say, 6 people need to be benched, then we get three votes each.
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Mar 4, 2017 17:32
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Multi-voting is better.
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Mar 4, 2017 17:39
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single-voting is easier for me cause i can't decide on 6 characters anyway so by the time i've clicked Hayato the other 5 are just randomly decided by clicking wildly
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Mar 4, 2017 18:01
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Apothecary's role is supposed to be that of the slow, bulky, powerful archer (coupled with the high Mt of Yumis). The problem (outside of not being able to really experiment with the class unless you Seal) is that Archers are generally just better - doubling is better than single hits when you're a ranged unit, and they also get Quick Draw to help their damage problems.
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Mar 4, 2017 18:03
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Apothecary seems like a really weird class to me. Archers already fill in the bow unit role, for one, and Apothecary's growths are meh, while their skills taper off in usefulness. Plus, despite being meant to be this self-buffing, self-sufficient fighting unit, their design just screams support/non-combatant. Feels like the whole class (and the whole line) could be scrapped and nothing would change. One vote per person is probably going to make the votes really skewed, so multi-voting is better imo. But yeah maybe lower the number of votes.
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Mar 4, 2017 18:22
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| # ? May 8, 2024 20:27 |
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You know it's sad that from an out of game perspective Zola basically just announced that he is going to betray us and the in game main cast don't have any reason to see it that way.
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Mar 4, 2017 18:34
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