Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
MikeCrotch
Nov 5, 2011

I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

Tias posted:

When Zhukov was summoned to lead the mongolian forces against the Kwantung army, he initially expected to be purged, and packed his things for the gulag, leaving his wife a letter saying to handle his disappearince with dignity.

Things are never boring when your bosses are insane!

I still laugh at the idea that Italian generals came to meetings with hand grenades in their briefcases just in case that was the day Il Duce decided to feed them to the sharks.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER


Kassad posted:

This. The Napoleonic wars were still too small scale (relatively small armies and short campaigns... and mostly waged outside France, so few civilian deaths in the country) compared to the war of 1870 and the world wars. This chart shows it pretty well:



There does seem to be a small dip around 1815, if you look closely. But it's not even close. I'm not sure what the hell happened in 1911 or 1912, though.

What happened in 1911?

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

Who gets bullet?

Bear carries many bullet.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa
Maybe something to do with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champagne_Riots ? Sacrebleu, you can't lay a French girl without a good bottle of champagne!

P-Mack
Nov 10, 2007

Check out 1966 in Japan.

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER


See also: Japan currently.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

1966: The Year Without loving

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Boiled Water posted:

What happened in 1911?

The US military accepted the great .45 as its sidearm, and the force of each bullet passing through the atmosphere was powerful enough to blow off a Frenchman's genitals from across the sea.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

zoux posted:

1966: The Year Without loving

A quarter less births... pregnancy lasts 9 months so it's more like January-March 1966 Without loving, the other three quarters were conceived in 1965 and those conceived in April-December 1966 were born in 1967.

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010

zoux posted:

1966: The Year Without loving

Jesus, none of you 17th century history nerds complain about how gruesome your time period was ever again.

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

Nenonen posted:

A quarter less births... pregnancy lasts 9 months so it's more like January-March 1966 Without loving, the other three quarters were conceived in 1965 and those conceived in April-December 1966 were born in 1967.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1052742

Even better and crazier than you could imagine.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

Sitting in traffic every morning and evening I could go for some of that ZPG.

FAUXTON posted:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1052742

Even better and crazier than you could imagine.

Dear Lord.

Ice Fist
Jun 20, 2012

^^ Please send feedback to beefstache911@hotmail.com, this is not a joke that 'stache is the real deal. Serious assessments only. ^^

FAUXTON posted:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1052742

Even better and crazier than you could imagine.

:vince:

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER


FAUXTON posted:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1052742

Even better and crazier than you could imagine.

That's amazingly regionally crazy and :vince:

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

Elyv posted:

You should read about Middle Ages wars. That the First Crusade succeeded in its goals is honestly kind of amazing to me.

I'm working my way through Jonathon Sumption's history of the Hundred Years War right now and holy poo poo. Those guys spent 80% of their time & effort on desperately trying to raise money for the next big push, 19% on pointless seiges of various fortified towns and like 1% on doing anything practical and useful. I'm amazed that the rest of their societies didn't just tell them to gently caress off & then form the EU 700 years early.

Jack2142
Jul 17, 2014

Shitposting in Seattle

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

Who gets bullet?

The blocking detachment.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

HEY GAIL posted:

nah that happened, it's the 1625 Cadiz expedition, google it

It's what I get for reading before bed

HEY GAIL posted:

it's called Contributions and it's real

I understand the Emperor was like totes bankrupt, but didn't anybody say "hm, maybe we shouldn't do this, we're just turning the basic economic infrastructure into mulch at this point?"

The whole thing about soldiers being stationed as blackmail is also :psyduck: as gently caress, I think the Trumpenreich is gonna bring it back in the 2019 Mexican border action

Since I have not done this in awhile, have some more Italian navy in WW2:


    It's spring 1941, and the British are reinforcing the Greeks, who've been invaded by the Germans, because Italy invaded Greece and was not doing so well even though it had invaded Greece in the first place to beat the Germans to it.

  • There was a high-level Naval meeting in 1941 where the Germans generally encouraged the Italians to use their surface ships like the Germans had done. The specific suggestion was that the Italians do more raiding of British supply lines in the Agean Sea. The Italians bitched about low fuel supplies. At no point did the Germans say "Oh and hey the Royal Navy uses radar now, watch out for that."

  • The Germans reported that He 111s had sunk two RN battleships. This was important as that brought the RN down to parity in Capital ships with Italy, which currently had only the one [Vittorio Veneto. Shenanigans were planned in the Easter Med.

  • ULTRA spoiled the suprise of the Italian force. The Italians idea was to sail both north and south of Crete, but while not perfect, ULTRA extracted enough information to get the RN to sea at full strength, with its two battleships in question emphatically un-sunk.

  • Neal Stephenson fans, take note: to disguise where his intel came from, Adm. Cunning-Ham dispatched Sunderland flying boats to "find" the Italian fleet at sea. As it was, the cloud cover was so thick the Sunderland 1) was almost missed by the Italians and 2) could barely see the Italian fleet. This heavy fog also foiled Luftwaffe support planes from finding the Italian fleet.

  • In another signals folly, the Germans tried to signal to the Italian Admiral that the RN had three, not one, battleship, but the message was not marked urgent and was filed at the bottom of the message pile. Adm. Iachino also got unlucky earlier that day, as three S.79 torpedo bombers nearly bagged Formidable, the RN's aircraft carrier in the region.

  • So when a force of Italian Heavy Cruisers and Destroyers spotted a lighter force of RN ships, they opened fire and chased the RN ships. The RN ships turned and fled to the cover of the Battleships, but thanks to shite weather, the Italians lost the trail. Italian Admiral decides to see if he can catch this force of cruisers and destroyers in a pincer movement. He got his battleship within range of the RN force, and got a few big gun rounds ouff, but then Swordfish disrupted his formation, and the RN crusiers made smoke and vanished. It is now dusk, and the Italians decide to turn for home. The British apparently have their carrier along, and the Italians don't have air cover. The Italian fleet turns back, unaware that a much larger RN fleet is out there.

  • Italian fleet is attacked several times by aircraft, some carrier based, most based off of Rhodes and Crete. A torpedo hits the stern of Vittorio, but only causes a temporary drop in speed. The last attack at dusk the British get lucky: a torpedo hit on the cruiser Pola leaves her dead in the water.

  • Since the only RN naval units the Italians have seen are destroyer-ish, the 1st Cruiser squadron is detached to tow/sink Pola. The two other Cruisers of this squadron are Zara and Fiume, and travel with a destroyer entourage.

  • With piss-poor visibility, British radar allows the RN to detect this detachment. Cunningham brings his battleships close, about 4000 yards, then opens fire simultaneously. The first salvo wrecks all three Italian cruisers. Two of the four guarding destroyers are also sunk. It's the single biggest day loss of life for the Italian navy in the entire war.

  • The next day, the Italian fleet gets plenty of air cover. The Italians also intercept a British message from one of the warships during the engagement, showing them that the RN actually has this thing called radar.

wdarkk
Oct 26, 2007

Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten

Nebakenezzer posted:

With piss-poor visibility, British radar allows the RN to detect this detachment. Cunningham brings his battleships close, about 4000 yards, then opens fire simultaneously. The first salvo wrecks all three Italian cruisers. Two of the four guarding destroyers are also sunk. It's the single biggest day loss of life for the Italian navy in the entire war.

Maybe it's all the world of warships I play, but I felt something pucker at that point. That seems really, really close.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

wdarkk posted:

Maybe it's all the world of warships I play, but I felt something pucker at that point. That seems really, really close.

World of Warships ranges are effectively shorter than an equivalent number of KM. So it's a bit closer than that even.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

quote:

The Germans reported that He 111s had sunk two RN battleships. This was important as that brought the RN down to parity in Capital ships with Italy, which currently had only the one [Vittorio Veneto. Shenanigans were planned in the Easter Med.

Ah, good old Luftwaffe overclaiming.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Fangz posted:

Ah, good old Luftwaffe overclaiming.

That was my thought too - though they seemed for once to figure out their error fairly quickly.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I would be a bit concerned if they couldn't figure out that they had not, in fact, destroyed two thirds of the RN battleship presence in the Mediterranean.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
Iachino deserved everything that he got that time. You need one obsolete destroyer to sink or tow a heavy cruiser. Anything additional to that will get in the way of the operation. Maybe you have a covering force of a couple destroyers, but if things go to poo poo you just leave the cruiser since you might have had to sink it anyway. Stupid, stupid stuff.

Anyway, the Italians had a very nice centrimetric radar system in the late 1930s but of course High Command thought that it was foolish to become overreliant on technology...

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME

Nebakenezzer posted:

It's what I get for reading before bed
it accomplished nothing but one of the funniest battle paintings of the century:

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

College Slice
It's interesting reading this corrected account of hey, the Italians actually had their poo poo together a lot better than they're given credit for and are often hosed over by the Germans.

Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.
To be honest it has me a little suspicious of the account; this is coming from one book isn't it? I haven't been paying super close attention so maybe I'm wrong, but I kind of get the impression the author's been trying to blame the Germans for practically every traditionally-supposed cock up of the Italians. It's definitely opened my mind a bit and I'm sure there's some truth to it, but I think saying the Italians had their poo poo together might be a bit overly revisionist.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Koramei posted:

To be honest it has me a little suspicious of the account; this is coming from one book isn't it? I haven't been paying super close attention so maybe I'm wrong, but I kind of get the impression the author's been trying to blame the Germans for practically every traditionally-supposed cock up of the Italians. It's definitely opened my mind a bit and I'm sure there's some truth to it, but I think saying the Italians had their poo poo together might be a bit overly revisionist.

The Italian navy was pretty well regarded at the outbreak of WW2 and did indeed have its poo poo together pretty well. The bulk of Italy's military problems were with their army and to a lesser extent their air force.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME
here is a more sympathetic review of that book on Nazi drug use that came out a while back. It's p. interesting in its own right

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/03/09/blitzed-very-drugged-nazis/

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Koramei posted:

To be honest it has me a little suspicious of the account; this is coming from one book isn't it? I haven't been paying super close attention so maybe I'm wrong, but I kind of get the impression the author's been trying to blame the Germans for practically every traditionally-supposed cock up of the Italians. It's definitely opened my mind a bit and I'm sure there's some truth to it, but I think saying the Italians had their poo poo together might be a bit overly revisionist.

I'm actually conscious of this as well; since I don't know anything on the subject I've decided just to roll with it and let other people pick the bones out of it. In the last story though, the Germans were not really to blame for the lack of air cover; weather was terrible that day, and they did try to provide it.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Cythereal posted:

The Italian navy was pretty well regarded at the outbreak of WW2 and did indeed have its poo poo together pretty well. The bulk of Italy's military problems were with their army and to a lesser extent their air force.

The navy had a decent number of ships, a good submarine force, very good special forces, and absolutely no night/bad weather capability.

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009


HEY GAIL posted:

here is a more sympathetic review of that book on Nazi drug use that came out a while back. It's p. interesting in its own right

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/03/09/blitzed-very-drugged-nazis/

This line struck me

quote:

Adolf Hitler was portrayed as a vegetarian teetotaler who would allow nothing to corrupt him.

Putin not drinking alcohol has come up in propaganda as well. Is there a rule for when using this motif is particularly useful? It strikes me as maybe a tool to elevate the leader beyond earthly concerns, sacralize him? Like you can't say his touch cures boils anymore, but you better believe that he won't get crunk and hit on the neighbor's wife the way uncle Otto does. Or is it a suggestion of not having earthly vices? Like he doesn't drink and it's implied that he also won't embezzle or something?

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Cythereal posted:

The Italian navy was pretty well regarded at the outbreak of WW2 and did indeed have its poo poo together pretty well.

Shame about having virtually no fuel, though!

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Nebakenezzer posted:

The whole thing about soldiers being stationed as blackmail is also :psyduck: as gently caress, I think the Trumpenreich is gonna bring it back in the 2019 Mexican border action

The Third Amendment exists specifically to prevent the government doing this, actually, because:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartering_Acts

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

aphid_licker posted:

This line struck me


Putin not drinking alcohol has come up in propaganda as well. Is there a rule for when using this motif is particularly useful? It strikes me as maybe a tool to elevate the leader beyond earthly concerns, sacralize him? Like you can't say his touch cures boils anymore, but you better believe that he won't get crunk and hit on the neighbor's wife the way uncle Otto does. Or is it a suggestion of not having earthly vices? Like he doesn't drink and it's implied that he also won't embezzle or something?

I think your'e looking a little too far into it.


A lot of the communities that are susceptible to the charms of strong man demagogues are also the kind of economically marginalized, culturally disaffected groups that are going to have increased incidence of drug and alcohol abuse. There is a line to be drawn, for example, between economic hopelessness in the white working class, support for trump, and the opioid epidemic. There's no causal relationship there, but they are all part of a broader constellation of related issues. Meanwhile, people who see first hand the ugly side of recreational chemicals are probably going to have a lot of positive associations with the people who steer clear of them, everything from moral connotations to simply thinking they have their poo poo together enough that they don't need to booze it up.

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

feedmegin posted:

The Third Amendment exists specifically to prevent the government doing this,

Here's one that's not generally known: the US clearly violated the Third Amendment during WWII:

http://volokh.com/2011/10/18/a-historical-violation-of-the-third-amendment/

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003

Fun Shoe

aphid_licker posted:

This line struck me


Putin not drinking alcohol has come up in propaganda as well. Is there a rule for when using this motif is particularly useful? It strikes me as maybe a tool to elevate the leader beyond earthly concerns, sacralize him? Like you can't say his touch cures boils anymore, but you better believe that he won't get crunk and hit on the neighbor's wife the way uncle Otto does. Or is it a suggestion of not having earthly vices? Like he doesn't drink and it's implied that he also won't embezzle or something?

I am unsure if you can lump Hitler in the same category, but a huge part of Putin's political persona is being this heroic hypermasculine Man's Man (my personal favorite example of this is Putin scoring bunches of goals in hockey games that feature recently retired NHL hall of famers). The idea is basically to tap into the same kind of mentality that everyone tried to activate during the world wars: masculine men are tough and good, so prove your masculinity and join the army! Putin's persona is a little more...nuanced though. It lets him appeal to the large population of disenfranchised/poor/etc young Russian males that today make up the bulk of his non-oligarch support. Basically, he's taking a big group of people who grew up in the anarchy of post-Soviet Russia, and giving them a tough strong mean father figure to latch onto. It also lets him demonstrate Russian Bear Strength and Power against western Imperialists like Obama, because Obama is a pussy academic.

You see this kind of thing happen a lot of times there's a big unhappy group of young men. National shame, or whatever you want to call it, is a really powerful thing.


edit - here's a good article that explains it better than I did:


This whole masculinity thing is so tied up in Russian politics today that I've actually had to write about it for DoD publications. Like, analyzing the impact of shirtless Putin on the political balance of power in the Baltics. Am serious.

It is also pretty funny how many Alpha/King/grossly insecure young men in the US idolize Putin. The internet is full of such discussions and I love reading it.

bewbies fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Mar 2, 2017

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

feedmegin posted:

The Third Amendment exists specifically to prevent the government doing this, actually, because:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartering_Acts

But does this apply in Mexico? After all, the Mexicans are gonna pay for that war :smugdon:

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

bewbies posted:

impact of shirtless Putin on the political balance of power in the Baltics.

Go on.

Incidentally "Defenders" was just banned in Lithuania for "excessive depictions of Russian military might", so I think they also figured it out.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004


Nebakenezzer posted:

But does this apply in Mexico? After all, the Mexicans are gonna pay for that war :smugdon:

Freudian slip?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009


Cyrano, bewbies, thanks, great thoughts!

e: for content, a shirtless Mussolini

aphid_licker fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Mar 2, 2017

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5