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Because what more story is there to tell about Hicks and Newt? That they're both traumatized by the aliens? Well, there's 2 other Alien movies that cover that. Family? You could do that with new characters. What specific story can you tell with Hicks and Newt that is worthy of telling in 2016 that has not already been covered in other Alien films? Why not tell something brand new within the story?
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Mar 2, 2017 22:53
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CelticPredator posted:Because what more story is there to tell about Hicks and Newt? That they're both traumatized by the aliens? Well, there's 2 other Alien movies that cover that. The story of a child growing up with horrible trauma and how it impacts her life and relationships especially when she inevitably is forced to come face-to-face with the cause of her trauma. There, with five seconds of thought, i came up with a reasonably interesting thematic center which can be used as the basis for an interesting Newt film. And the same question can be asked about Aliens in general. What story is there left to tell? Where they came from? Is that really a story that needs to be told? Prometheus didn't even need Aliens to function and odds are pretty good Alien: Covenent isn't going to be improved by having an Alien instead of some new creature instead. Why are you okay with having yet another film about Aliens but somehow the idea of a film involving Newt is "this is IMPOSSIBLE, you can't tell a good story about that!"
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Mar 2, 2017 22:56
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ImpAtom posted:The story of a child growing up with horrible trauma and how it impacts her life and relationships especially when she inevitably is forced to come face-to-face with the cause of her trauma. There, with five seconds of thought, i came up with a reasonably interesting thematic center which can be used as the basis for an interesting Newt film. You don't tell a story about Aliens. You tell a story with Aliens. And you could still tell that story about a new character without pandering to fanboys.
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Mar 2, 2017 22:57
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CelticPredator posted:You don't tell a story about Aliens. You tell a story with Aliens. Considering how much of the discussion in this thread is about the Alien and its origins that doesn't seem to be true, no. CelticPredator posted:And you could still tell that story about a new character without pandering to fanboys. Okay. And you could do Alien: Covenant without aliens without pandering to the fanboys too. You could do Rogue One without it being a direct Star Wars film, you could do Godzilla without actually using Godzilla. If your argument is "it's bad because fans like it" then what is your defense for not using new things? Aliens didn't need Aliens and could have been done on its own with a new character. It explicitly fast forwards 57 years into the future and is basically in a new setting, it attempts to soft-retcon things into Ripley's backstory (a daughter she never mentions, though that is of course cut from the final film), it completely changes the Aliens and makes them more traditionally insectoid, and in essence you could have an entirely new film without using the Aliens. The fact that it builds off a previous film is something it benefits from but the same would be true of a theoretical Newt-focused film. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 22:58
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At this point the Alien franchise would really benefit from abandoning the idea of canon completely. Multiple encounters with Xenomorphs but no one ever knowing they exist is getting a bit silly. It'll be downright absurd if the rumours about Daniels being Ripley's mother are true.
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Mar 2, 2017 23:32
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CelticPredator posted:Because what more story is there to tell about Hicks and Newt? That they're both traumatized by the aliens? Well, there's 2 other Alien movies that cover that. I mean the concept art suggested that Ripley would become a Xenomorph hybrid and lead a revolution of the alien proletariat and that kind of owned though
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Mar 2, 2017 23:40
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ReV VAdAUL posted:At this point the Alien franchise would really benefit from abandoning the idea of canon completely. Multiple encounters with Xenomorphs but no one ever knowing they exist is getting a bit silly. It'll be downright absurd if the rumours about Daniels being Ripley's mother are true. I always feel like they missed out on that, like just move the setting forward into a "gently caress it, Aliens are a thing now" world where people know this. If they do a non-prequel movie again it should be like The Expanse or even Babylon 5 or something where we get to actually see a functioning sci-fi society instead of yet another isolated mission. Hell have Arcturians and some other friendly bipedal aliens in it and settle that argument once and for all. :P One of those Dark Horse Aliens novel comics, I think Harvest? It completely sucked like the majority of them, but I appreciated that a lot of it was this sort of noir heist story kind of thing set mostly on earth as that was a cool change of pace.
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Mar 2, 2017 23:50
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Alehkhs posted:But the sequels are going to have brief underwater sections. Uh, I think you're forgetting one very important Aquaman.
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Mar 2, 2017 23:51
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:I mean the concept art suggested that Ripley would become a Xenomorph hybrid and lead a revolution of the alien proletariat and that kind of owned though I highly doubt that would be a thing. It would completely go against her character, pre Resurrection.
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Mar 2, 2017 23:56
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DC Murderverse posted:Uh, I think you're forgetting one very important Aquaman.  Ah yes. I am curious to see how that comes out.
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Mar 2, 2017 23:58
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CelticPredator posted:I highly doubt that would be a thing. It would completely go against her character, pre Resurrection. Plus IIRC the art was of her wearing a biomechanical suit and not her literally returning as an alien/human hybrid like in Resurrection.
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Mar 3, 2017 00:02
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ImpAtom posted:The story of a child growing up with horrible trauma and how it impacts her life and relationships especially when she inevitably is forced to come face-to-face with the cause of her trauma. There, with five seconds of thought, i came up with a reasonably interesting thematic center which can be used as the basis for an interesting Newt film. Ok so Ripleys story v2.0?
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Mar 3, 2017 00:17
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I still kinda want a proper Alien Vs Predator that involves Colonial Marines getting their poo poo wrecked dropping into a colony that turns out to have been made into a xenomorph hunting run by predators. Also one of the Marines is secretly a Terminator because gently caress it, that was a comic once right
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Mar 3, 2017 00:32
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ReV VAdAUL posted:At this point the Alien franchise would really benefit from abandoning the idea of canon completely. Multiple encounters with Xenomorphs but no one ever knowing they exist is getting a bit silly. It'll be downright absurd if the rumours about Daniels being Ripley's mother are true. That spoiler was leaked by the same person who leaked basically the entire plot of the film that's now been confirmed by the trailer, so... yeah.
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Mar 3, 2017 01:07
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Avatar was entertaining enough, but had some really bad characters and hit-and-miss performances. Its biggest failing was being so goddamn unoriginal. Sigourney was great in it I thought
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Mar 3, 2017 01:44
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I'm hoping they bring back Michelle Rodriguez so that there can be three different action franchises where her character dies in the first movie but then turns out to be alive in a sequel.
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Mar 3, 2017 01:46
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PriorMarcus posted:That spoiler was leaked by the same person who leaked basically the entire plot of the film that's now been confirmed by the trailer, so... yeah. Not really. There's a bunch of different spoilers and the ones confirmed do not mention anything about that.
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Mar 3, 2017 01:56
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Neo Rasa posted:I'm hoping they bring back Michelle Rodriguez so that there can be three different action franchises where her character dies in the first movie but then turns out to be alive in a sequel. You'd think her asking price would be sky high these days, her agent can be like "5 million? This woman was killed off in two different billion dollar franchises, and they ended up regretting it so much they brought her back from the dead!"
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Mar 3, 2017 01:59
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PriorMarcus posted:That spoiler was leaked by the same person who leaked basically the entire plot of the film that's now been confirmed by the trailer, so... yeah. Danny mcbride is the father for Ripley, Thanks Ridley.
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Mar 3, 2017 02:05
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Basebf555 posted:You'd think her asking price would be sky high these days, her agent can be like "5 million? This woman was killed off in two different billion dollar franchises, and they ended up regretting it so much they brought her back from the dead!" lol this isn't Aliens, but very apropo quote:Filming may have just wrapped on Alita: Battle Angel, but we're just learning now that Fast and Furious actress Michelle Rodriguez has re-teamed with her Machete and Machete Kills director Robert Rodriguez (no relation, FYI) for the upcoming film. http://www.blastr.com/2017-2-23/ali..._source=twitter
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Mar 3, 2017 02:22
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CelticPredator posted:What specific story can you tell with Hicks and Newt that is worthy of telling in 2016 that has not already been covered in other Alien films? I think a story about Newt's experience before she was rescued could be a good story.
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Mar 3, 2017 02:38
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I want a movie where Weyland Yutani successfully get their hands on the aliens and weaponize them. Like, there could be some pratfalls while they get the program up and running, but eventually they get it down and do war stuff with them. Uh oh, we're supposed to take out these rebels but they're fortified, better request a shipment of elephants. In a week we'll have some specialty xenos fixing their little red wagon Are there any comics like this?
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Mar 3, 2017 02:50
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Weyland Yutani does terraforming, right? It could be like "Sir, we found an earth-like planet but there are 600 million bronze age people living there" "Send down the xenos, give it a month. Heh heh heh." "But sir then we have to kill the loving xenos" "That's where you're wrong! We got us a little methionine contingency"
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Mar 3, 2017 02:59
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WHY BONER NOW posted:I want a movie where Weyland Yutani successfully get their hands on the aliens and weaponize them. Like, there could be some pratfalls while they get the program up and running, but eventually they get it down and do war stuff with them. Uh oh, we're supposed to take out these rebels but they're fortified, better request a shipment of elephants. In a week we'll have some specialty xenos fixing their little red wagon Have some bitchin' fan art. 
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Mar 3, 2017 03:37
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That loving rules. Right down to the slightly 80's hair and clothing for the future-executive. I want more, I want a comic 
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Mar 3, 2017 03:59
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WHY BONER NOW posted:I want a movie where Weyland Yutani successfully get their hands on the aliens and weaponize them. Like, there could be some pratfalls while they get the program up and running, but eventually they get it down and do war stuff with them. Uh oh, we're supposed to take out these rebels but they're fortified, better request a shipment of elephants. In a week we'll have some specialty xenos fixing their little red wagon Just wait for Jurassic World 2.
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Mar 3, 2017 03:59
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Also I want a movie about just exploring creepy alien settings like this 
Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 04:04
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Baronjutter posted:Also I want a movie about just exploring creepy alien settings like this Did you miss Prometheus?
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Mar 3, 2017 04:15
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Baronjutter posted:Also I want a movie about just exploring creepy alien settings like this All those are just huge humans in space suits.
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Mar 3, 2017 04:22
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UmOk posted:Did you miss Prometheus? I don't think Prometheus got anywhere near the sense of foreboding and dark awe that first picture evokes, although I think it was a entertaining enough movie. Great fan art (or concept art) like that always insinuates to me that the Engineers didn't create the xenomorphs, no matter how the story gets wrangled that way in the movies. They found them, maybe used them for war, maybe adopted their form and aesthetic for Engineer society, definitely worshipped and obsessed over them, and either got overrun or became suicidal zealots sending floating tombs full of eggs to random worlds. The Great Filter is super space bugs as much as it is obsession with controlling forms of life that are beyond the reckoning of any sentient species. I think I prefer that to the angle the movies seem to be going for of "Engineers made humans who made androids who made xenos who systematically wipe out everything", but at the end of the day it's all just a bunch of extrapolation based on HR Giger's spank collection so  .
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Mar 3, 2017 04:47
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BiggerBoat posted:I think a story about Newt's experience before she was rescued could be a good story. Oddly enough, there's a surprisingly high number of survivors of the whole Hadley's Hope colony disaster. One of the more recent spin-off comics actually chronicles a group of something like 20 colonists who manage to commandeer a short-range cargo shuttle and get off of LV-426. They manage to make it to LV-223 - the planet from 'Prometheus'. The Prometheus bluray points out that LV-223 and LV-426 are actually both moons of the same gas giant. WHY BONER NOW posted:I want a movie where Weyland Yutani successfully get their hands on the aliens and weaponize them. Like, there could be some pratfalls while they get the program up and running, but eventually they get it down and do war stuff with them. Uh oh, we're supposed to take out these rebels but they're fortified, better request a shipment of elephants. In a week we'll have some specialty xenos fixing their little red wagon There was one with a crazed military commander who thinks he can use Aliens as soldiers, so long as he keeps the Queen threatened. He assembles his "army", and, well...   There's another where a crazed scientist gets the idea to make a genetically modified Queen that has all of its strength and intelligence, but doesn't lay eggs and could be "controlled" through the use of sonic weapons. The other people in the facility (rightly) think he's a lunatic, so he says "gently caress it" and sets his pet project loose - it goes on a rampage, tearing through the facility's walls and killing everyone and everything in its path on its way to the nearby Alien hive... where the Queen just straight up kicks its rear end and kills it. Weyland Yutani actually isn't in very many of the comics, with no clear reason as to why. They get very infrequent name-drops, and most of the time the "bad guys" in the comics are random mad scientists, the military, occasionally doomsday cultists, stuff like that. Corporate malfeasance isn't that prevalent in the comics - there's a notable story where a big corporation considers trying to exploit Aliens for profit, and then the CEO realizes what the Aliens are capable of and straight-up puts the brakes on the whole thing and basically says "holy poo poo are you people insane? Hell no we're not messing with these things, Jesus Christ." It's an entertaining reversal of the whole "corporation thinks it can control uncontrollable monsters, instead gets curbstomped" trope you'd expect. Hunterhr posted:Have some bitchin' fan art.
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Mar 3, 2017 06:32
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Yo you know what was a neat comic? The one where this lady crash lands on a weird kind of puritan like planet where they sacrifice babies to a lone Alien, and it's revealed that the babies are clones instead of like, real babies. Then it gets complicated. You could make that into a movie. The VVitch meets an Alien.
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Mar 3, 2017 06:40
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Neo Rasa posted:I always feel like they missed out on that, like just move the setting forward into a "gently caress it, Aliens are a thing now" world where people know this. If they do a non-prequel movie again it should be like The Expanse or even Babylon 5 or something where we get to actually see a functioning sci-fi society instead of yet another isolated mission. Hell have Arcturians and some other friendly bipedal aliens in it and settle that argument once and for all. :P Yeah, very few films, let alone sci-fi ones have touched upon colonial corporations like the Dutch or British East India companies. Sure plenty of sci-fi has a generic evil corporations lurking in the background but the actual mechanics of how these corporations worked and competed with other monopolies and nations could be the basis for all sorts of interesting stories. Personally I'd love to see a sort of Babylon 5 esque conflict between various competing Empires utilising (and suffering catastrophes) from all sorts of eldritch technologies and naturally occuring horrors in a cold indifferent universe. Or you could have the Xenomorphs as a kind of space malaria making a chunk of the galaxy unconquerable for the various empires allowing engineer-like aliens to live in paradises even though their military is no match for the corporations. Then the Xenomorph equivalent of quinine is discovered albeit with some very nasty side effects.
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Mar 3, 2017 11:50
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Basebf555 posted:Yea, we know so little about what the black goo is capable of and what its origins are. The Engineers clearly work with biomechanical technology, and I don't think its a stretch to theorize that the goo's effects are not random. The traditional xenomorph may be an inevitable conclusion to the mutations caused by the black goo, with David just happening to be the first being from Earth to have discovered that fact. Yeah, convergent evolution is a thing on earth and it's pretty interesting--think bird and bat wings developing similar morphologies independently. I mean, Prometheus pretty much tries to sell us on the conceit that the goo is some sort of concentrated evolution catalyst, which implies that in the 'Alien Universe' it's actually pretty natural to end up with xeno-esque traits at some point. The black goo, through all of its permutations in the affected animals, unlocks a roiling, chaotic vitality that forcibly asserts its continued existence in this world by killing, loving, and eating whatever it needs to in order to reproduce. In a really loose way, that's basically just evolution on earth except turned up to 11 and in fast forward with various artistic liberties sprinkled in. The engineers and humans present an ordered counter-balance to the 'xenos' and the goo like a yin and yang. They even made the engineers white to the xeno's black. Order and entropy. 2 sides of the same coin. It's why the idea of the engineers grew on me a bit well after Prometheus. If you run with the film's notion that humans were created by engineers, and the engineers by some other race that their bio-mechanical suits are meant to ape...then you get this interesting progression of these humanoids moving further and further away from the 'life essence' represented by the goo and ever closer to their respective technologies: the nascent race of humans have developed synthetics like David and Walter that are entirely separate entities from themselves, then the engineers with their technology grafted to their bodies and intermediate levels of biomechanical integration (who are perhaps already so divorced from loving they don't have genitals, or women), and finally, the engineers' creators--maybe the OG space jockey from the original Alien that's been crashed and derelict for millennia who are very ancient and completely intertwined biomechanical beings. And I think in Covenant we see David come to understand this inevitable progression and actively try to create the engineers' ancestors' xenomorph; like the truly ancient one we see in Alien (well that came from an ancient egg from a long-dead ancient xeno that burst out of the jockey's chest), the fully-integrated biomechanical nightmare. David's less the de novo creator of the traditional xenomorph, but more someone that has seen the prophecy and has the means and creative curiosity to bring it back into the world by his own hand. Something I think at least some of the engineers were trying to do for whatever reason, with the goo I assume they isolated from those spore pods on their homeworld. It also works in a movie-science way as well that the tale of the chaotic xeno and the orderly humanoid are forever interlocked in this cyclical existence throughout time. You can be the pinnacle of evolution and "the perfect organism" or whatever they like to call xenomorphs, but if your rear end can't get off the rock you were born on there's a 100% chance your rear end is going extinct when your star inevitably burns out and implodes. If not sooner, since you're so goddamn efficient at what you do you've run out of faces to hug long before that kills you off. It's also an obligate parasite so, , you really need to cozy up with (and not immediately wipe out) a species that is capable of civilization and eventually interstellar flight.
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Mar 3, 2017 16:53
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Red band version of the new trailer. Few f bombs and a splash of red. https://youtu.be/sL2LWNtn3uY
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Mar 3, 2017 17:20
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I still kinda want a proper Alien Vs Predator that involves Colonial Marines getting their poo poo wrecked dropping into a colony that turns out to have been made into a xenomorph hunting run by predators. The old Aliens Vs Predator arcade game has been brought up in this thread and it was indeed awesome, but the 2001 computer game needs more love: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens_versus_Predator_2 You play as an alien, predator, and colonial marine in intersecting stories all basically fighting an evil corporation (full of mercs and terminator-like androids) experimenting on aliens and predators and trying to keep their activities hidden from the marines. At one point in the predator and marine campaigns you're captured and locked up only to be released when the power goes out. Later it's revealed in the alien campaign that you as the alien cut the power to release the captured queen. I will never understand why they went the direction they did with the atrocious AvP films. Just put those fuckers in space.
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Mar 3, 2017 17:53
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banned from Starbucks posted:Ok so Ripleys story v2.0? Any media involving Aliens is to some degree going to be Ripley's Story v2.0, so yes. It being similar to Ripley's story doesn't mean it lacks value. Hell, look at Alien 3 whose concept is just a mix of Alien and Aliens. (Combining the lone terror element of Alien and Ripley facing it again from Aliens.) The fact that it has a similar basic concept doesn't mean it has a similar execution and concept.
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Mar 3, 2017 17:58
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After Alien Resurrection I can understand why people would be skeptical of anything reusing older/long dead characters.Jagermonster posted:I will never understand why they went the direction they did with the atrocious AvP films. Just put those fuckers in space. Same here. Plus the action would be more interesting if the Predators are hunting characters with more futuristic tracking stuff and weapons available to them. Like they'd have to be more creative/have an even wider variety of gadgets and that could inspire some cool Predator action. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 18:03
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Neo Rasa posted:After Alien Resurrection I can understand why people would be skeptical of anything reusing older/long dead characters. It'd probably be a more meaningful argument if the Alien franchise didn't have like 2.5 good films. You're not exactly sullying the glorious perfection at this point.
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Mar 3, 2017 18:07
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ImpAtom posted:It'd probably be a more meaningful argument if the Alien franchise didn't have like 2.5 good films. What is the good/bad film count threshold before someone is allowed to have an opinion about stuff being rehashed in future films?
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Mar 3, 2017 18:09
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