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Every time I watch Parallels I notice new differences, like the red alert klaxon when the galor attacks and Data's blue eyes when Worf asks about his marriage.
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Mar 3, 2017 11:05
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Blazing Ownager posted:I know, he's such a loving terrible father. It's hilarious they had to have an episode about his son traveling back from the future to tell him he's a loving bad father, and he still didn't change. It's kind of comedy gold really. Alexander was so hopeless that he gave himself away by loving up basic poo poo like getting the date wrong on a dagger he planted and he somehow failed at assassinating a sleeping child he was living with. I would have given up too. And so did the writers apparently.
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Mar 3, 2017 11:46
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Generic Monk posted:are you implying you're not impressed by this masterpiece I always thought they were trying to do a Metropolis style robot, but like everything else on Voyager, they half assed it.
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Mar 3, 2017 13:34
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Blazing Ownager posted:So I already had a bad feeling about the new show.. and frankly I kind of believe most of the rumors given everything that's happened. The one thing that still gives me a glimmer of hope for Discovery is that, after reading The 50-Year Mission, you see that almost every Trek production has had some sort of chaos behind the scenes. One of the best seasons of Trek ever - TNG season three - apparently had a terribly chaotic writer's room, with writers coming and going, scripts being thrown together at the last minute, etc., yet they turned out some true classics. Yesterday's Enterprise, maybe one of the best Trek episodes ever, was thrown together over a weekend using multiple scripts from several writers. Of course, the biggest issue with Discovery seems to be the lack of any creative force behind it. With Fuller gone, I don't see anyone there who I trust to make an interesting and original Trek show (and certainly not another goddamn prequel). Let's hope that some of the (relative) unknowns working on Discovery turn out to the next generation of Moores, Pillers, and others who stepped up and made their shows great. But I'm not counting on it...
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Mar 3, 2017 13:55
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twistedmentat posted:I always thought they were trying to do a Metropolis style robot, but like everything else on Voyager, they half assed it. Yeah, this is exactly what I mean about problems with Voyager and why (I personally) found it unwatchable after a certain point. I'm sure that there people who worked on Voyager who did sincerely great, honest work - at times even there would be a good script that had real potential, though they were few and far between and the mediocrity of the writing staff was a pretty big problem. But there is just this really pervasive feeling that a lot of people were just... mailing it in. in the worst and blandest possible way. Robert Beltran as Chakotay was definitely the most extreme example, and even just having one actor legitimately not giving a poo poo whatsoever can ruin a show, but it definitely felt like there were others. And then you'd get characters like Neelix who was played by a *very* enthusiastic actor who clearly put 100% effort into his character, and was also completely insufferable and painful to watch for the most part. Just awful. The Doctor was the only balanced and complete character on the show, as I recall. The only character who was both well written and well performed by an actor who both gave a poo poo and was able to perform dialogue with subtlety and wit. Again, I barely watched the first season plus some random episodes throughout later seasons, so  Blazing Ownager posted:video about ST: Discovery being a loving mess I find this so depressing. I had such high expectations for this show when Bryan Fuller was still helming it, because he was coming off a pretty goddamn amazing piece of television (Hannibal) and I felt like (in spite of his Voyager connection in his youth) he was a true fan who could make the first truly great Star Trek series in a really long time. And I still think I was right! Watching that video the course of events is just really both depressing and totally unsurprising.
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Mar 3, 2017 14:54
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Even without executive meddling Discovery would already be creatively bankrupt. Star Trek is a stagnant property, nobody wants to develop it into the future of the setting anymore so they keep trying to mine more references out of the existing entries in the franchise and spin them into soulless, gutless prequels and reboots and rehashes. "A shipful of diverse individuals explore strange new worlds in the same timeframe as TOS with some of the same characters as TOS" isn't some great premise that you can build a series on at this point, it's just an (utterly doomed) attempt to recapture the appeal of TOS, an actually good and groundbreaking show. I've said it before, but it's not purposeful to make a series about exploration, discovery, the great unknown, in a setting where everything important has been done to death over the course of fifty years. To be true to Trek's premise at this point, you'd pretty much have to ditch Trek.
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Mar 3, 2017 16:09
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I can understand them wanting to do it over in the TOS era. Sure we know all the backstory, but all the schmucks they're showing toothpaste ads to don't. Trek lost its momentum over a decade ago and they kind of have to start from brass tacks as much as we hate it. I wonder if the drama behind the scenes of Star Trek is the norm in the business or a bit of an outlier. I listened to all the BSG podcasts that were sort of directors commentary and everyone there seemed be chill and get along... but that's also probably just them being professional and not talking poo poo. Still, it's been a decade (...) almost since the show ended and I still haven't heard any stories like the Jeri Ryan/Kate Mulgrew feud.
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Mar 3, 2017 16:16
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skooma512 posted:I can understand them wanting to do it over in the TOS era. Sure we know all the backstory, but all the schmucks they're showing toothpaste ads to don't. Trek lost its momentum over a decade ago and they kind of have to start from brass tacks as much as we hate it. I kinda think the desire to get back to TOS is exactly why Star Trek keeps having to re-do itself. They have no confidence in the concept, so they go back on old times. I'd rather see them go past TNG and DS9 and Voyager and find some new zany adventures.
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Mar 3, 2017 18:18
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The show should have been set in the Kelvin timeline. It would have given them a clear sense of design for the show, been less confusing to newcomers, and avoided the same issues Enterprise hit where they'll have to awkwardly explain how even though Kirk was the first captain to encounter X, in reality it happened 10 years earlier!
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Mar 3, 2017 18:37
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And they can't seem to create characters that aren't the center of the universe. Which means they have setting-changing events happening around characters who--in in-universe chronology--disappear without a mention, with no lasting ramifications from anything they did. For some reason, they seem really reluctant to flesh out events that have been canonically mentioned, which would sidestep the problem entirely.
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Mar 3, 2017 19:03
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Kelvin timeline between the TOS movie era and the TNG era. 
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Mar 3, 2017 19:06
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Kelvin timeline = show never getting made due to rights issues Kelvin timeline wouldn't solve anything anyways. You realize that what you are asking for is a way for them to retread the same old poo poo again, just with an excuse to put some minor spin on it and justify it as "new timeline." I thought we all got our fill of that from the movies? If they make something new and different then they don't have to worry about tromping on continuity regardless of timeline. The galaxy is a big place and we've only seen a tiny bit of it.
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Mar 3, 2017 19:15
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I just watched the video that was linked earlier. What kind of executive decision could this Sarek twist come from?
vermin fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 19:33
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Holy gently caress it's Les Moonves again loving guy made the same suggestions during Enterprise and look where that got us Honestly if even half the poo poo in that video is true than it'll be completely hosed when it comes out. What a sad, sad waste.
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Mar 3, 2017 19:42
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I'm only through the 1st season of TOS but it strikes me how much less technobabble there is. They have technology and devices that enable them to do a thing and then they do that and get on with the story. Also, random crewmen do things and have lines so it feels more like a ship with a crew rather than just the main cast with some extras hanging out in the background. It's neat.
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Mar 3, 2017 20:41
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Panzeh posted:I kinda think the desire to get back to TOS is exactly why Star Trek keeps having to re-do itself. They have no confidence in the concept, so they go back on old times. I'd rather see them go past TNG and DS9 and Voyager and find some new zany adventures. But they dont want to ape the look of 1960's tv. Which you kinda have to do, the designs are pissing fans off because they are playing with iconic imagery. they could just drop the star trek label and make SCI FI show if thats what they want. I still think a good way forward with trek would be to do an anthology series, make each season its own story/setting. I still think it would be cool if they did space/ship/planet/space station with each season focusing on each setting and have an ensemble cast and have the stories over lap, so we can see different parts of the same story. But that might just be too overly ambitious. hell just jump tng era star trek ahead 30 years, do some stories about a ship, try to avoid pandering too much.
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Mar 3, 2017 20:45
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skasion posted:Even without executive meddling Discovery would already be creatively bankrupt. Star Trek is a stagnant property, nobody wants to develop it into the future of the setting anymore so they keep trying to mine more references out of the existing entries in the franchise and spin them into soulless, gutless prequels and reboots and rehashes. "A shipful of diverse individuals explore strange new worlds in the same timeframe as TOS with some of the same characters as TOS" isn't some great premise that you can build a series on at this point, it's just an (utterly doomed) attempt to recapture the appeal of TOS, an actually good and groundbreaking show. I've said it before, but it's not purposeful to make a series about exploration, discovery, the great unknown, in a setting where everything important has been done to death over the course of fifty years. To be true to Trek's premise at this point, you'd pretty much have to ditch Trek. Yeah this is well-put. I knew it bothered me that they weren't going beyond DS9, but this is exactly why.
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Mar 3, 2017 20:56
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I think in order for Star Trek to move forward it'd have to develop a new frontier. A frontier beyond the final one. There's only so many interesting forehead aliens in this galaxy. From what little I know about Enterprise, the premise of "Star Trek but with time travel" probably wouldn't work. One direction they could try is developing the parallel universes sides of trek. Then it just becomes Sliders in Space. And so much has been written about parallel universes in trek already that they'd have to put way too much work into it than CBS would be willing to put up with.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:08
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bull3964 posted:Kelvin timeline = show never getting made due to rights issues Kelvan timeline. Send a new ship with an ambassador to Andromeda. Don't even have anything happen to it where it's stuck there; just make it a huge pain to come back (maybe still several months/year travel time) so they can do it, but really don't want to have to. 50-100 years post TNG, that'd be something I would be OK with as long as you can keep the technobabble under control. Bonus if you can say the humanoid progenitors who seeded this galaxy didn't make it to there, so try out all sorts of actually alien-looking aliens.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:09
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Tighclops posted:Holy gently caress it's Les Moonves again loving guy made the same suggestions during Enterprise and look where that got us Aside from the stuff about Les wanting to sex the show up and Fuller clashing with him, this is the first I've heard of the Sarek dimensional poo poo and the VFX team being let go. I know the guy cites "show insiders", but it seems like a bunch of bullshit. The show's in trouble for sure, but I highly doubt it's over a canon vs non-canon clash or that Netflix and licensees are threatening to pull out.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:23
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I honestly think all the rumors in that video about Moonves are trying to have it two ways. Either: A. He could give two shits about Star Trek and really doesn't want anything to have anything to do with it but commissioned it just because of market research. or B. He's a tyrannical micromanager constantly butting heads with the creatives. I don't think you can have it both ways. I personally have doubts that he's doing much creative interference with Discovery simply because he oversees such a significant amount of stuff at CBS that it's doubtful he'd have the time to meddle in a single show on All Access all that much.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:53
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Yeah, that Sarek stuff sounds loving batshit and is emphatically not the sort of thing "people who don't really know Star Trek" would come up with -- unless they just looked at Lenard's credits and said "you know, I think we can do something with this." I think someone either bought an insane fan theory as gospel truth or someone with an ax to grind is deliberately trying to make production seem like a trainwreck. The VFX shakeup is a little more believable given how crappy a lot of what we've seen is, but I'm really skeptical that they fired "everyone" and it's more likely that they would have replaced one of the leads or switched studios. We've also seen executive meddling/sabotage get blamed any time anything goes wrong with shows nerds care about and I'm pretty dubious that Moonves would fire Fuller and then leave his lieutenants in charge without bringing in a new EP. It feels like Moonves is getting singled out because nerds have heard of him and vaguely know he sucks. If anyone is micromanaging Discovery, it's probably a committee of faceless middle manager types. Plus, "it's on All Access because they have no faith in it" and "it was supposed to make All Access a success" are not compatible statements so hearing them in practically the same breath makes me think this guy is a complete moron who's just repeating whatever poo poo he's heard.
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Mar 3, 2017 22:01
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Here's something I happened across that you fine folks may enjoy: AMAZING STAR TREK MUSIC MONTAGE It goes through all of the TV themes (with the exception of Enterprise) and has a few familiar riffs from a couple of the movies. It is included with the Star Trek: Horizons mod for Stellaris, which is where I first heard it. As a fan of ST for all of my 41 years of life, this is the best ST music montage I've yet heard; and it was done by one dude.
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Mar 3, 2017 22:03
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TheKeeper posted:Here's something I happened across that you fine folks may enjoy: AMAZING STAR TREK MUSIC MONTAGE It reminds me of the 4 Cords song. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I
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Mar 3, 2017 22:14
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Duckbag posted:Yeah, that Sarek stuff sounds loving batshit and is emphatically not the sort of thing "people who don't really know Star Trek" would come up with -- unless they just looked at Lenard's credits and said "you know, I think we can do something with this." I think someone either bought an insane fan theory as gospel truth or someone with an ax to grind is deliberately trying to make production seem like a trainwreck. The VFX shakeup is a little more believable given how crappy a lot of what we've seen is, but I'm really skeptical that they fired "everyone" and it's more likely that they would have replaced one of the leads or switched studios. Yeah, that video is absolutely jam-packed with conspiracy theories and fan-crafted ideas, which sadly isn't uncommon (just look at all the videos full of horseshit theorycrafting about The Last Jedi). We already knew who the new EPs of Discovery were (Heather Kadin and Gretchen Berg, both Orci/Kurtzman veterans), and as much as I love Fuller's creative work, he is a bit of a prima donna when it comes to getting it done. NBC, for example, did him several favors by keeping Hannibal on the air, but he kept turning in scripts later and later. (This is the whole reason Amazon passed on Season 4 of Hannibal -- Fuller demanded he be given time to write out the whole season before cameras rolled.) He has a similar reputation from other shows, as well: Basically he does great work but he's a drama queen about it. There's no question that Discovery's development and production has been an utter shitshow (Nick Meyer has reportedly reduced his involvement to a "consulting" role), and I have no faith whatsoever in the series actually being decent, but I don't think that it's been a conspiracy on CBS' part, rather just a clusterfuck on all sides.
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Mar 3, 2017 22:31
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vermin posted:I think in order for Star Trek to move forward it'd have to develop a new frontier. A frontier beyond the final one. There's only so many interesting forehead aliens in this galaxy. Nah. How about 50 years after DS9, there's a long peace as the Federation/Klingon/Romulan/Cardassian alliance enjoys an unparalleled level of success after subduing the Dominion and Borg. There's some inciting incident that kicks off a four-way civil war. Show follows every side. Or just do the Klingon show everyone wants.
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Mar 3, 2017 22:36
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Star Trek shows should take place in the future. Just say some rift opened into a different universe and go explore there. Not a mirror one, a whole new one.
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Mar 3, 2017 22:47
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PostNouveau posted:Or just do the Klingon show everyone wants. Captain Worf it is!
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Mar 3, 2017 22:58
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PostNouveau posted:Nah. How about 50 years after DS9, there's a long peace as the Federation/Klingon/Romulan/Cardassian alliance enjoys an unparalleled level of success after subduing the Dominion and Borg. There's some inciting incident that kicks off a four-way civil war. Show follows every side. Yeah, I think you could do a lot of fun things with the existing setting's future and you don't necessarily make it all about time travel or alpha quadrant politics or parallel universe or any of that crap. It's a big loving galaxy and poo poo is always going wrong somewhere and there's always more to explore. Don't get me wrong, you could do lots of fun things with belligerent Klingons, a reformed Romulan Empire, or Cardassians under occupation. You could have the Dominion, Borg, or a beloved Voyager race (lol) show up, and the temptations would be strong to do that, but I've always thought this notion that writers just can't help themselves when it comes to continuity porn is complete crap. There's no reason why a "prime timeline' Alpha Quadrant set show would have to delve back into any of that stuff. Frankly, it's insulting to hear people act like audiences in the 80s could watch accept a big time jump and setting shift for Next Gen and see Klingons and Romulans be reintroduced and used differently without freaking out (too much), but modern audiences just aren't capable of that. The whole logic of "it's too complicated, let's just reboot it" is absurd. You see, having to call the existing setting the "Prime Timeline" now is just so much simpler. Having to match the aesthetic of a fifty year old show while still seeming modern and cutting edge is so much easier than just telling fun stories in the future, right guys? Right?
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Mar 3, 2017 23:34
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Netflix ... threatening to pull out. I read that as Neelix at first, and went  for a moment.
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Mar 3, 2017 23:49
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Powered Descent posted:I read that as Neelix at first, and went No no, I'm pretty sure he's barbed which would make that extremely painful.
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Mar 3, 2017 23:52
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PostNouveau posted:Or just do the Klingon show everyone wants. The only person desperate for that is Dorn, who's getting rather shameless about how much he wants to do it (although Takei was really, really bad about a Captain Sulu show for like a decade). Stewart and even Spiner are happy to say, "Record a few lines for a video game? Sure!" but Dorn is like, "Only if you let me talk with producers about a Worf show."
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Mar 3, 2017 23:55
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Dorn is still trying to get #WeWantWorf trending by selling lovely signed Worf fanart
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Mar 4, 2017 00:27
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Greatest Generation did TNG's "Ethics" this week and came to the exact same conclusion as everyone else ever: that Pulaski should have been the guest character in this episode. It's such a no-brainer that I wonder if the idea ever came up while the episode was being written.
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Mar 4, 2017 01:15
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Delsaber posted:Greatest Generation did TNG's "Ethics" this week and came to the exact same conclusion as everyone else ever: that Pulaski should have been the guest character in this episode. It's such a no-brainer that I wonder if the idea ever came up while the episode was being written. I doubt that she would have even come back onto TNG, from what I understand she didn't much enjoy working on that show anymore than, uh, the rest of the cast seemed to enjoy having her around. I seem to recall learning this from interviews/documentaries and such. I recall Diana Muldaur talking to Shatner in some documentary and contrasting her positive experiences on TOS with her negative experiences working on TNG. Seemed like she didn't much enjoy the more modern piecemeal filming style used in TNG, whereas on TOS of course they would generally just set up their coverage and shoot the scenes all the way through from start to finish like all shows did back then. But I really do think that Diana Muldaur was as fantastic on TOS as she was mediocre on TNG, so I can respect her position. I can't really think of any other actress who actually played the "Dame of the Hour" in two different episodes playing entirely different characters, and not only did a great job in both eps but she is different enough in the two roles that you could easily be forgiven for not realizing it was the same actress - or even that it's the same actress who would later play Pulaski. She does have those very striking light blue eyes that give her away if you're paying attention. I happen to really like both of those episodes anyway -- 'Return to Tomorrow' is a stone-cold classic with possibly THE GREATEST Shatner speech of the entire series and almost too much campy awesomeness to take or begin to describe here, while 'Is There in Truth No Beauty' is easily one Season 3's best efforts IMO, largely because of Muldaur's spectacularly creepy/menacingly weird performance at the center of the episode - and a lesser actress could've *easily* botched a role like that (actually lesser actors and actresses botch a fair amount of minor performances on TOS but that's part of the charm) kaworu fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Mar 4, 2017 |
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Mar 4, 2017 01:55
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Timby posted:The only person desperate for that is Dorn, who's getting rather shameless about how much he wants to do it (although Takei was really, really bad about a Captain Sulu show for like a decade). Stewart and even Spiner are happy to say, "Record a few lines for a video game? Sure!" but Dorn is like, "Only if you let me talk with producers about a Worf show." Ok it's just me then. They should do the Klingon show me and Michael Dorn desperately want.
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Mar 4, 2017 02:09
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Just include Worf in Starfleet JAG since he deserves to be court-martialed anyway.
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Mar 4, 2017 02:47
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The guy who played Teal'c on stargate has been trying to get a spinoff too. Maybe they should do a crossover of token alien warrior characters.
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Mar 4, 2017 03:18
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Tunicate posted:The guy who played Teal'c on stargate has been trying to get a spinoff too. Maybe they should do a crossover of token alien warrior characters.  I'd have watched every episode of Teal'c PI.
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Mar 4, 2017 03:35
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Tunicate posted:The guy who played Teal'c on stargate has been trying to get a spinoff too. Maybe they should do a crossover of token alien warrior characters. Worked for Atlantis.
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Mar 4, 2017 03:35
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