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Disgruntled Bovine posted:Inflation and the 1% Also, getting these cars faster and faster requires more carbon, more titanium, better technology and all of it has to meet emissions and safety requirements.
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Mar 3, 2017 00:54
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Hopefully this alleged CSIRO breakthrough in the production of carbon fibre goes some way to bringing the price down. Next time I buy a second hand Corolla I want it to weigh 900kg and be 80% cf. https://www.csiro.au/en/News/News-releases/2017/Carbon-fibre-makes-Australian-debut
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Mar 3, 2017 01:09
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davebo posted:Lamborghini Huracan Performante crushed the 918 spyder's Nurburgring lap time with a 6:52:01, and this thing is only supposed to cost $400k. That and the camera being so low to the ground makes this video pants-shittingly fast. This is what happens when you let the Captain Sensibles at Audi take over.
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Mar 3, 2017 03:38
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Preoptopus posted:Whatever happened to entry level super cars starting at 120k? Or is that just a price reserved for luxo barges now. Was there ever really a "supercar" that was anywhere close to that? I had a look and even a Ferrari 360 Modena MSRPed at around $180k and that was 20 years ago. What did you have in mind?
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Mar 3, 2017 04:56
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Throatwarbler posted:Was there ever really a "supercar" that was anywhere close to that? I had a look and even a Ferrari 360 Modena MSRPed at around $180k and that was 20 years ago. What did you have in mind? Does the GTR count? It was $70k on release back in 2008. edit: On reflection would the GTR be classed more as a sports car akin to the Corvette and Viper? What about the 911? MB AMG GT? kimcicle fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 05:05
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I asked because I was curious. Looking at it today, the Corvette, Viper, AMG GT, GTR all sport relatively mass market badges and engines in the front, the R8 is an Audi, the 911 and NSX are both sports cars from brands that mostly sell light trucks and sedans, so there could be an argument against any of them being truly "exotic". The newest low end Mclaren is supposed to be around $180k, so that would be closest thing these days. I'm told this newest generation of Mclarens from the MP12c onwards also don't hold their value that well so I'm thinking they'll be a great place for a relatively middle class buyer to wait for a tow truck.
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Mar 3, 2017 05:33
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This is cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he0WvPDxjZc
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Mar 3, 2017 12:28
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slothrop posted:Hopefully this alleged CSIRO breakthrough in the production of carbon fibre goes some way to bringing the price down. Next time I buy a second hand Corolla I want it to weigh 900kg and be 80% cf. I don't think the price of the carbon is the big deal. I think it's the labor of getting the layups done and autoclave baking and all that. Lamborghini seems to have decided that doing chopped carbon injection molds is good enough for their marketing people to spin as "high quality carbon fiber".
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Mar 3, 2017 13:12
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They reckon it's lighter and stronger but I don't see how. The strength in from the overlapping fibres. A load of chips suspended in resin how does it have anything like the strength? We must have a materials engineer on here some place. Please explain it as if I were a child.
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Mar 3, 2017 13:13
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Honestly tho if they can get 80% strength at half the price thats already a huge step forward. But better and cheaper? Woah
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Mar 3, 2017 13:23
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Bape Culture posted:They reckon it's lighter and stronger but I don't see how. The strength in from the overlapping fibres. A load of chips suspended in resin how does it have anything like the strength? We must have a materials engineer on here some place. Please explain it as if I were a child. Here, read this: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/10/lamborghini-and-mit-join-forces-to-create-a-sports-car-for-the-21st-century/
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Mar 3, 2017 13:26
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quote:Feraboli and his team in Seattle pioneered a new form of carbon fiber manufacturing called Forged Composite (or FC) to create the Sesto Elemento. Forged composite carbon fiber is created when a block of material is weighed and then dropped into a metal mold. Using pressure and heat in an autoclave, the block of carbon fiber is formed into the required shape in less than three minutes. There is less need for curing or reheating the component to finish it, and it can be put into the manufacturing chain almost immediately. The resulting material is strong enough that it can be used to make things like suspension control arms (like in the Sesto Elemento). So reading this I still can't quite figure out what they're doing. A block of 'material' is put into a mold and shaped. It's basically similar to plastic manufacturing? The combo of resin and strand layering is where carbon fibre gets strength from, same as plywood manufacture.
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Mar 3, 2017 13:44
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They are literally treating the carbon fibers the way they use glass fiber in fiberglass. Shred up enough carbon fiber, add the right amount of resin, and bam now you have castable / injection moldable carbon fiber composite at a fraction of the labor cost as prepreg molded carbon fiber. Yeah it's not as strong as layers of woven alternating strand prepreg, but it's so much less labor intensive that it is now applicable for mass production at something like 80% of the strength and lightness of woven carbon fiber parts. Ford is starting to do this on the GT and the Shelby models for some parts. The best part about this is that materials engineers are also working on this technology being 3D printable and machinable. Imagine being able to 3D print incredibly intricate parts out of this composite that are lighter than titanium and almost as strong as a pure CF part. I believe that there are companies that are already experimenting with the CF composite making things like connecting rods and other parts of the rotating assembly. Can you imagine how much weight savings there could be in an engine with CF composite internals? We're talking 10k+ redlines with comparable amounts of stress to today's conventional engines.
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Mar 3, 2017 15:11
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I don't think it's exactly the same process, but Artisan Dice is using "filament wound" carbon fiber to make RPG dice for hypernerds. https://www.artisandice.com/order/carbon-fiber-filament-wound/ A full set of polyhedral dice is $536  Instead of a hollow structure, apparently filament winding can create solid rods of carbon fiber, which can then be machined. The downside is that carbon fiber absolutely loves to eat silicon carbide endmills, and they only get a couple of machined dice per endmill. But this fiberglass-like method of creating carbon fiber parts sounds like it's much more feasible on bigger scales. Very neat! KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 15:31
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Throatwarbler posted:...The 911 and NSX are both sports cars from brands that mostly sell light trucks and sedans... 
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Mar 3, 2017 16:04
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Bape Culture posted:They reckon it's lighter and stronger but I don't see how. The strength in from the overlapping fibres. A load of chips suspended in resin how does it have anything like the strength? We must have a materials engineer on here some place. Please explain it as if I were a child. Speaking as an engineer who spent a lot of time figuring out how to do structural carbon layups and actually made a bunch of test coupons to run in a tensile tester at university... they're not. It's not going to be as good as first generation carbon monocoques where they were using the standard 90 degree woven fabric that everyone thinks of, and it's definitely 100% not going to be as good as an optimized current generation layup where the load paths are analyzed and unidirectional fibers are used. Fun fact! If you analyze load paths through a carbon monocoque race car, it ends up looking like a tube chassis, so what is done is that unidirectional fibers are basically used in the directions of the loadpaths with less optimized layers of fabric (everything else) and aluminum honeycomb used to hold them apart. All of this is done with aerospace grade prepreg fabric where the mixture of epoxy to fabric is precisely metered beforehand, then after layup they're cured under heat and pressure to consolidate everything. I mean, this "forged carbon" process is going to be stiffer than fiberglass out of a choppergun or just plain plastic, to be sure. Discontinuous reinforced composites are still useful for some things, one of the ones I want to play with is SiC reinforced aluminum because there's some fun as hell stuff I could make from that. But it will never be as good ("good" defined with metrics that don't include price) as an equivalent composite with continuous reinforcement.
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Mar 3, 2017 17:14
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 Nissans 1983 concept of what they thought car interiors would be like in the future. Navigation, screens, easy to access buttons... not far wrong!
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Mar 3, 2017 21:33
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Falken posted:
Judging by the "auto cruise" buttons and the display behind the steering wheel, it looks like they guessed autopilot/driving assistance as well.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:39
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Hood mounted mirrors: good Shift knob so close to console you bang your knuckles every time you move into 3rd: bad Nav screen nowhere near your line of sight while driving: bad Cigarette lighter: pain in the rear end spot to plug in my star trek communicator Beefy sliders for climate controls: gently caress yeah edit: and that engine.  exterior here: http://oldconceptcars.com/1930-2004/nissan-nrv-ii-concept-b11-1983/ xzzy fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 21:39
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No touch screens: good
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Mar 3, 2017 21:42
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Falken posted:
Higher resolution: http://oldconceptcars.com/wp-content/uploads/nissan_nrv_ii_concept_3.jpg ... which reveals front radar, steering wheel radio controls, a voice input function and a Drowsiness Monitor
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Mar 4, 2017 02:05
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Holy poo poo I saw a video on that thing when I was a kid. Towards 2000 (and then Beyond 2000) was my favourite show. And someone uploaded it from an old VHS onto youtube! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tew__Byowgg
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Mar 4, 2017 02:08
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Falken posted:
The wrongest thing there is a cigarette lighter in the cigarette lighter port.
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Mar 4, 2017 07:04
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Bape Culture posted:They reckon it's lighter and stronger but I don't see how. The strength in from the overlapping fibres. A load of chips suspended in resin how does it have anything like the strength? We must have a materials engineer on here some place. Please explain it as if I were a child. Well however it works, the CSIRO are one of the very few scientific organisations you can accept their claims at face value so....... yeah they must have worked something out.
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Mar 4, 2017 07:19
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gently caress anyone that doubts our mighty CSIRO
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Mar 4, 2017 10:24
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Racewars is currently on this weekend in Western Australia. I'm stuck at work and my car isn't up to scratch this year so I'm missing out on all the AI goodness  I'm following it in Facebook tho. A TT UGR Lambo and an R32 gtr have broken the 300kph barrier over 800m so far, so the 1000m VMax runs are shaping up to be pretty spectacular. Here's the Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/racewarsau/ I'm phoneposting so no pics
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Mar 4, 2017 10:39
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^^^ I just can't not lol at "racewars" though I'm sure it's a perfectly inclusive event Memento posted:Holy poo poo I saw a video on that thing when I was a kid. They nailed the future-car gadgets pretty well there. Also hell yeah Judas Priest on Japanese radio 
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Mar 4, 2017 18:06
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Beyond 2000 was extremely my poo poo, and I might be able to blame a specific episode for what got me into car design and engineering, the one where they talked about the Renault Racoon (still one of my favorite concepts). This version is in spanish, can't find an original english version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i1SbQxgD2Q
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Mar 5, 2017 06:02
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"The Renault Racoon: It makes noise in the middle of the night you can't identify, and in the morning you find trash all over the front seats."
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Mar 5, 2017 10:50
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Mar 5, 2017 12:01
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mekilljoydammit posted:Speaking as an engineer who spent a lot of time figuring out how to do structural carbon layups and actually made a bunch of test coupons to run in a tensile tester at university... they're not. It's not going to be as good as first generation carbon monocoques where they were using the standard 90 degree woven fabric that everyone thinks of, and it's definitely 100% not going to be as good as an optimized current generation layup where the load paths are analyzed and unidirectional fibers are used. Fun fact! If you analyze load paths through a carbon monocoque race car, it ends up looking like a tube chassis, so what is done is that unidirectional fibers are basically used in the directions of the loadpaths with less optimized layers of fabric (everything else) and aluminum honeycomb used to hold them apart. All of this is done with aerospace grade prepreg fabric where the mixture of epoxy to fabric is precisely metered beforehand, then after layup they're cured under heat and pressure to consolidate everything. Have you told McLaren and Lamborghini that they're using the wrong materials to build their cars? After all, how else do you think McLaren build a monocell tub in 4 hours? It ain't with hand-laid prepreg.
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Mar 5, 2017 13:17
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drgitlin posted:Have you told McLaren and Lamborghini that they're using the wrong materials to build their cars? After all, how else do you think McLaren build a monocell tub in 4 hours? It ain't with hand-laid prepreg. I don't think they do do they? It's done at URT.
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Mar 5, 2017 15:02
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drgitlin posted:Have you told McLaren and Lamborghini that they're using the wrong materials to build their cars? After all, how else do you think McLaren build a monocell tub in 4 hours? It ain't with hand-laid prepreg. McLaren's process is actually a lot closer to high performance prepreg layups too in that they're using the same sort of fiber orientations that they'd be using with prepreg, but using resin transfer molding to get the epoxy into the matrix. But anyway, did you actually read what I wrote other than the first sentence? "It's not as good" isn't the same as "it's useless poo poo". You can make the structural parts of a car out of almost anything and have it work well if you design it properly and hey, guess what, in the world where you're selling things to customers who care about price, the fact that you have a process that's cheaper than the optimal way is kind of important!
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Mar 5, 2017 15:25
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I believe BMW's board didn't greenlight the i8 until someone there figured out they could use carbon fabric trimmings as CFRP (carbon fiber reinforced plastic) as a major structural component of lower performance car: the i3. CFRP isn't as good as more traditional carbon but it's better than lots of stuff.
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Mar 5, 2017 18:03
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drgitlin posted:Have you told McLaren and Lamborghini that they're using the wrong materials to build their cars? After all, how else do you think McLaren build a monocell tub in 4 hours? It ain't with hand-laid prepreg. Get this: some car manufacturers don't use carbon fiber at all. They use cheap, old-fashioned sheet-metal, or even sometimes plastic. Insane, right?
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Mar 5, 2017 18:48
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Platystemon posted:The wrongest thing there is a cigarette lighter in the cigarette lighter port. Obviously you have not been to the mighty nation of Japan.
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Mar 5, 2017 19:11
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Chemmy posted:I believe BMW's board didn't greenlight the i8 until someone there figured out they could use carbon fabric trimmings as CFRP (carbon fiber reinforced plastic) as a major structural component of lower performance car: the i3. ...CFRP is carbon fiber  The i3 is made using the same layup methods as the i8 and every other thing made from carbon fiber. The chopped carbon fiber/forged composite stuff is exclusively Lamborghini and Calloway far as I can tell, since it was developed in conjunction between them at a laboratory in Seattle that Lamborghini owns. I haven't seen anything about McLaren using the technology or similar besides citing a cut in production time thanks to unspecified new manufacturing techniques.
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Mar 5, 2017 19:40
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McLaren probably just hired someone away from that factory who filled a laptop full of stolen technical specs before they left. It worked for Uber, right?
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Mar 5, 2017 22:22
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Octopus Magic posted:Obviously you have not been to the mighty nation of Japan. 2017 Japan is 1980s America with respect to public smoking.
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Mar 6, 2017 02:04
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MetaJew posted:2017 Japan is 1980s America with respect to public smoking. That's not to say people blow smoke in your face, in my experience everyone was incredibly polite. Even outdoors, people would step away from their group to have a smoke, then put their butts out in a pocket ashtray instead of flicking them on the ground. I really wish people in the US would use the ashtrays in their cars, or at least keep a coffee mug in cup holder to stash their butts. Flicking them out in traffic is so trashy, and makes me want to throw something back. I know your butts look gross and smell up the car, but your smoking does that too.
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Mar 6, 2017 05:39
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