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Slugworth posted:I don't know guys, I just think it'll be cool if Alien Covenant finally explains who Boba Fett's dad is. It's David.
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Mar 3, 2017 19:50
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CelticPredator posted:There wouldn't be a way to get Hicks and Newt's DNA so no, I wouldn't. Hicks and Newt are not interesting enough to come back. They got Ripley's DNA, and apparently Newt and Hicks were interesting enough people are still having this discussion decades later. CelticPredator posted:You keep missing the point though. People want to see more Alien films because they like the title character. At a base level, it's a loving neat monster. One that is still popping around today. NECA's making a million Alien toys, there's Alien vinyls, Alien plushies, ect. People love that thing. So why are people who want more Alien film justified and right but people who like characters from those films wrong and shouldn't get what they want? The argument keeps boiling down to "I don't want THOSE FANS to get what they want. They are WRONG and BAD and EVIL. Not like me who should keep getting what I want."
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Mar 3, 2017 19:54
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Because they smell bad.
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Mar 3, 2017 19:55
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Baronjutter posted:A good writer and director can take a franchise in a new direction or do something very unique without having to "cheat" and do massive ridiculous retcons that eliminate entire movies and key plot arcs. Aliens 'retconned' Alien (makes no mention of Mother, blames the events of that film entirely on the creature and Ash being 'glitchy'), and Alien 3 retconned Aliens (makes no mention of the criminal Burke, blames the events of that film on official company policy). Prometheus also retcons both AVP and AVP:R out of existence. Taking Mother out of Alien and Burke out of Aliens are enormous retcons - and you don't care. Aliens doesn't have explicit plot exposition declaring that there was no Mother, but the narrative proceeds as if she never existed. So even though the narrative doesn't make sense (how did Ripley forget that the company tried to murder her?), the plot is not contradicted, and you are satisfied. The ultimate reason you don't care is that you view Alien as a franchise IP 'universe' whose author is 20th Century Fox, and that filmmakers who deviate from the plot canon laid out by the corporation are 'bad cheaters'. But the anxiety you feel is not because Alien 5 is fanfiction, but quite the opposite: that it will be, by definition 'canonical', and therefore that Alien 3 and 4 will be eliminated from the canon - declared fanfiction retroactively. The corporation-author will, itself, have 'badly cheated'. The entity you relied upon for validation will have changed His mind. You are being confronted with the fact that there was never any actual difference between fiction and fanfiction. It was always a fantasy.
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Mar 3, 2017 20:00
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With enough disingenuous "gotcha" questions I've finally been forced to think really bad ideas for movies are in fact objectively good, my mind has been expanded. Like we're all fan-fictions man, what is fallible human memory but a series of ret-cons and fan-fiction about our own lives? What is political ideology but the attempt of our minds to desperately construct a "canon" for the world and angrily cling to it and defend it like a fanboy? Deep stuff.
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Mar 3, 2017 20:13
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ImpAtom posted:So why are people who want more Alien film justified and right but people who like characters from those films wrong and shouldn't get what they want? We're all just throwing out opinions here, who is saying that anyone is BAD or EVIL? I wish Hollywood only ever made movies I like, but that's not reality so I soldier on. Yes, I want to see more movies of the kind that I personally like. How is this surprising to you?
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Mar 3, 2017 20:17
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Baronjutter posted:With enough disingenuous "gotcha" questions I've finally been forced to think really bad ideas for movies are in fact objectively good, my mind has been expanded. Like we're all fan-fictions man, what is fallible human memory but a series of ret-cons and fan-fiction about our own lives? What is political ideology but the attempt of our minds to desperately construct a "canon" for the world and angrily cling to it and defend it like a fanboy? Deep stuff. Actually, it's very simple and superficial. James Cameron was a fan of Alien. As a fan, he made a sequel to Alien - but changed things here and there. Alien was too harsh on the company, so Cameron drastically reduced the criticism. Alien was too enamoured with the monster, so Cameron made it into a disposable badguy. 20th Century Fox then bought and sold this fanfiction. They did not care about the contradictions. They did not care about the story. They did it because they believed this fanfiction would be profitable. If they thought a different fanfiction would be more profitable, they would have gone with that instead.
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Mar 3, 2017 20:32
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I would be fine with blomkamp getting to do his "real alien 3" if it was immediately followed up by a movie that directly follows up Fincher's Alien movie and ignores the events of Blomkamp's, just to gently caress with everyone
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Mar 3, 2017 20:50
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Baronjutter posted:I'd rather see an indulgent AvP movie based on the comics as a "love letter to the fans" than a movie that can't possibly tell its story without retconning alien 3 assembly cut out of existence, yes. I'd rather see something fresh and creative and good though. the problem is you'd still have to retcon at least part of Alien 3 to do that, because Alien 3 ends with the extinction of xenomorphs. like, half of why Resurrection is so bizarre comes from it trying to work around Alien 3, because Alien 3 is pretty much the most brazen attempt to set a franchise on fire I have ever seen: it permanently and unambiguously kills not only the protagonist, but every recognizable side character, almost every new side character, and even drives the antagonists to total extinction. it's pretty telling, honestly, that until Blomkamp's idea, every single Alien movie after Resurrection has been a prequel to the Ripley ones. because short of something really outside-the-box like what Resurrection did, that's pretty much the only way you can go without ignoring 3. e: also, jesus christ, they're not gonna literally erase Alien 3 from existence even if Blomkamp gets to make his movie, it'll still be around and in print. basically the absolute worst case scenario is that we end up with a Terminator situation where there's several different competing "canons" with different stuff in them, and that doesn't seem so bad to me. WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 21:01
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:the problem is you'd still have to retcon at least part of Alien 3 to do that, because Alien 3 ends with the extinction of xenomorphs. like, half of why Resurrection is so bizarre comes from it trying to work around Alien 3, because Alien 3 is pretty much the most brazen attempt to set a franchise on fire I have ever seen: it permanently and unambiguously kills not only the protagonist, but every recognizable side character, almost every new side character, and even drives the antagonists to total extinction. To be fair without Resurrection the only thing you need to do to retcon that is to go "oh, turns out there was another ship crashlanded somewhere." Between Prometheus and Alien:C apparently those ships were crashlanding all the goddamn time.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:06
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ImpAtom posted:Going "I don't want old stuff in the films, it is what makes them bad" doesn't really work. You can do good films using old stuff (Aliens!) and bad films using fresh stuff. Trying to point to returning to older content as the cause of the film being bad as opposed to the execution is the problem. Yeah but I don't think anyone here is really bothered beyond thinking they wouldn't like a movie that did that. Like if a movie doesn't interest me for ____ reasons I don't think that's really something that is required to "really work" or hold up in court or whatever, I just have no interest in seeing a movie because I think something about it is stupid. Like even Resurrection suffered because they didn't think the movie could stand on its own without Ripley as a character, everything about it is built around bringing back Ripley, and it feels very uh, last gasp because of it. A ton of new concepts are introduced in the movie with how the androids work vs. their repeated Ripley clonings and other things and all of it is half-baked or unexplored after being brought up because they dropped the $$$ to get Sigourney Weaver back. Regarding Cameron's treatment of the Aliens, I found it interesting after listening to the commentary it seems like he flubbed a bit. He never meant to portray them as an unintelligent hive mind, but rather wanted to keep their intelligence vague like in Alien. But Dark Horse/etc. latched onto how the human characters perceive their behavior in Aliens or how Hudson is like "How can they cut the power man they're animals!" Specifically, he mentions how like when they cut the power, the idea he was trying to get across wasn't that they chewed on a bunch of random wires and got lucky but that they're smart enough to find a box and switch the power off despite their not using technology normally. He doesn't go into too much detail but I liked the idea being that even though they don't utilize any technology as we know it now, their being bio-mechanical in nature makes their way of thinking "robotic" enough that they're apt at figuring out something like a circuit breaker or power box being connected to a thing or being able to navigate and figure out the ventilation system quickly to get around. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 21:12
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Did Bloemkamp ever give any details on what his film was about beyond 'hicks newt alive'? Like if he was planning on using the same actors (terrible idea btw) what were they supposed to have been doing for 30 years?
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Mar 3, 2017 21:28
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:the problem is you'd still have to retcon at least part of Alien 3 to do that, because Alien 3 ends with the extinction of xenomorphs. There's no proof of this other than lip service. But if you have to do it like this.... "Sir, we found 3 in tact eggs in the derelict ship on Hadley's Hope. The blast radius wasn't far enough to completely destroy the derelict." or "Sir, we found a GIANT ALIEN QUEEN FLOATING IN SPACE." or even "Oh look here's more Aliens on a planet."
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Mar 3, 2017 21:50
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Good point, they could of just found the frozen queen haha.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:54
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Or they could find a whole new planet with something related to or from the same origin of the aliens we've encountered but different in an interesting way. Maybe they find the ruins of a civilization destroyed by them and solve some mysteries. I think that would make a fun and spoopy movie.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:57
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ImpAtom posted:To be fair without Resurrection the only thing you need to do to retcon that is to go "oh, turns out there was another ship crashlanded somewhere." Between Prometheus and Alien:C apparently those ships were crashlanding all the goddamn time. the '93 Greebly Horseshoe was a notorious lemon, couldn't land for poo poo you mostly see them up on blocks in white trash engineers' front yards
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Mar 3, 2017 22:52
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It's me. I'm the person who would pay $14 to see more marines shoot aliens. And if that means they need to make a new branch off Aliens or say they scraped Hicks' burnt testicle off the base of the furnace because it was next to Ripley's pile of ash then so be it.
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Mar 3, 2017 22:58
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Dinosaurs! posted:It's me. I'm the person who would pay $14 to see more marines shoot aliens. You're an evil, bad person and you should feel bad.
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Mar 3, 2017 23:19
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Have you played the game aliens colonial Marines
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Mar 3, 2017 23:41
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UmOk posted:I forgot. Why is Avatar so bad again? Phillip K Dick's Dances with Wolves brought to you by Mind's Eye animations and Games Workshop.
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Mar 4, 2017 00:04
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Baronjutter posted:Or they could find a whole new planet with something related to or from the same origin of the aliens we've encountered but different in an interesting way. Maybe they find the ruins of a civilization destroyed by them and solve some mysteries. I think that would make a fun and spoopy movie. if the whole point of Prometheus was to show that David was a robot hated by humans found some goo to make aliens, they could of just skipped to this movie first! CelticPredator posted:Have you played the game aliens colonial Marines I beat it, stealth alien level, and the bad queen fight. Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Mar 4, 2017 |
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Mar 4, 2017 00:48
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I might be a dummy, but hasn't there (at least occasionally) been speculation about Danny Webb coming back as Morse (the only survivor of 3) in some future Alien movie? Or has that all just been fan speculation?
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Mar 4, 2017 01:12
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CelticPredator posted:Have you played the game aliens colonial Marines canon, accordin to fox
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Mar 4, 2017 01:37
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a perfect reason why blomkamp's alien film will be so dumb.
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Mar 4, 2017 06:49
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Aliens 'retconned' Alien (makes no mention of Mother, blames the events of that film entirely on the creature and Ash being 'glitchy'), and Alien 3 retconned Aliens (makes no mention of the criminal Burke, blames the events of that film on official company policy). Prometheus also retcons both AVP and AVP:R out of existence.
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Mar 4, 2017 07:04
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On the list of reasons why Aliens: Colonial Marines is a terrible game in every way, the wierd 'we saved your childhood!' DLC is pretty far down there, it's on there, though, and it's only that far down because everything else in that game is loving awful.
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Mar 4, 2017 08:01
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Does there really need to be a list that tells you Aliens: colonial marines is a bad game? This seems like something natural selection can take care of.
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Mar 4, 2017 11:50
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It's cool because it's not a mediocre game that makes bad use of a license, it's a fundamentally terrible game that makes fundamentally terrible use of a license. It's incredible.
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Mar 4, 2017 14:03
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Avatar talk made me realize that although I remember liking it at the time, I can't really remember a single thing about it and have never really had the urge to watch it again.
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Mar 4, 2017 15:19
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Dan Didio posted:It's cool because it's not a mediocre game that makes bad use of a license, it's a fundamentally terrible game that makes fundamentally terrible use of a license. It's incredible. I rented it once and was genuinely shocked to find out that they even make games that bad any more. Like I've never been the most hardcore gamer but I've played a few games on every console since the Sega Master System and Colonial Marines is the closest thing to an LJN NES game I've played since the 80s.
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Mar 4, 2017 15:37
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LadyPictureShow posted:I might be a dummy, but hasn't there (at least occasionally) been speculation about Danny Webb coming back as Morse (the only survivor of 3) in some future Alien movie? Or has that all just been fan speculation? This actually did happen around the time of Alien Resurrection's release but I don't think it ever got past the "hey it might be interesting if....." point. BiggerBoat posted:Avatar talk made me realize that although I remember liking it at the time, I can't really remember a single thing about it and have never really had the urge to watch it again. Same. Avatar is a good movie in that I saw it in theaters and enjoyed it a lot, but nothing about it made me want to see it again or return to it years later. But nothing wrong with that, it's easily digested in one viewing like a lot of the comic book flicks that come out today and that's fine. Why cookie Rocket posted:I rented it once and was genuinely shocked to find out that they even make games that bad any more. Like I've never been the most hardcore gamer but I've played a few games on every console since the Sega Master System and Colonial Marines is the closest thing to an LJN NES game I've played since the 80s. Games this bad do still happen but you would never see one hyped up like crazy by a major publisher and sold for $59.99 like back in the day with crap like Daikatana or see it have all kinds of "pre-order the game and get this extra stuff too!!!" stuff going on. Like if the Aliens name wasn't attached to it it would have been released for $19.99 and then be a free game on PlayStation Plus and be on sale on Steam for $2 like two months later. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Mar 4, 2017 |
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Mar 4, 2017 15:49
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Avatar is proto-Captain America. Alien is post-Captain America.
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Mar 5, 2017 10:00
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But guys Hicks totally survived according to bad video games, he was totally there during Alien 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mquByeLRYNM
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Mar 5, 2017 16:09
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Since all the prisoners were bald anyway, they should literally retcon the exact same thing for Ripley and have a Rashomon-esque flashback where one of the other guys jumps into the lava instead (it's pretty clearly a stuntman and not Ripley or a woman when the character swan dives in anyway).  Edit: I still can't believe they had a chance to have the Weyland Yutani corporate enforcer dudes appear again and they got the "they wear mostly white" part but didn't use those sick helmets they wear in Alien 3. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Mar 5, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 16:31
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To go back to my earlier point, after having seen Logan: Logan is a prime example of what I mean by an alternate Alien 3. It's an X-Men movie set in the continuity of X-Men but clearly doesn't use any of the recent X-Men movies as a basis, going completely in its own directly. Ironically in the opposite direction of theoretical Alien 3, killing a huge chunk of the cast offscreen. It makes reference to previous films but is under no obligation to stick to other sequels which explicitly retconned those films. It does its own stand-alone thing without the X-Men continuity without worrying about 'retcons' or whatever and just tells a story.
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Mar 5, 2017 16:56
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The red band trailer for Covenant featured a new shot of David's workshop
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Mar 5, 2017 17:18
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That thing on the left looks like one of the asstrumpets from the last season of LeXX
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Mar 5, 2017 17:33
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Things with a million tiny waving legs are revolting, so I hope that's in the movie.
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Mar 5, 2017 18:07
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ImpAtom posted:To go back to my earlier point, after having seen Logan: None of it panders though. That's the big thing here.
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Mar 5, 2017 18:10
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CelticPredator posted:None of it panders though. What? Yes it does. People have asked for an Old Man Logan movie since the comic came out. It's a comic book movie starring Wolverine. Claiming that isn't pandering means you have some absurdly obscure definition of pandering because "We're making a film about Wolverine" is pandering on its own.
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Mar 5, 2017 18:13
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