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hobbesmaster posted:You need Eos out so you can deploy a fey illumination buffed critlo off a WAR in defiance with convalescence up. We don't do a deployed start except on A11S anymore. Mostly just a succor and go while saving deployment for times that it's needed. Also use mantra as well for an extra 5-15%. 10k adlos are loving insane.
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Mar 6, 2017 16:51
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I was messing around with Scholar on Sunday, doing some actual content with it. Normally I just use AST or WHM, but I wanted to learn SCH better. It was surprising fun and you do a lot of the content with a different mindset than the other healers.
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Mar 6, 2017 16:51
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hobbesmaster posted:You need Eos out so you can deploy a fey illumination buffed critlo off a WAR in defiance with convalescence up. To be fair, doing this for FaustZ makes the encounter way faster since you get that whole 30 seconds for completely free.
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Mar 6, 2017 16:52
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I basically ignored SCH while I leveled SMN, so every now and then I get curious about trying the class, then I switch over to it, look at all the abilities and go full 
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Mar 6, 2017 18:35
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I feel like they could shove greased lightning into the chakra mechanic somehow. Like, spend chakra to turn GL on, add generating chakra via weaponskills. People might actually get to use tornado kick!
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Mar 6, 2017 18:47
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i just saw the korean live letter notes. do they really need to remove tank skills? are we losing the visuals for these abilities? how does compiling those skills into one affect anything at all? Fister Roboto posted:What balance considerations? You mean like how ninjas get the exact same buff except they don't have to be constantly hitting the boss to maintain it and also they can get it back up without blowing a 3 minute cooldown? what does it matter what ninja can do in the context of monk discussion? 15 percent attack speed has different levels of strength on different jobs and monk's glaring issue is a lack of utility. i understand losing gl3 is annoying but permanent gl3 is not the solution, unless ffxiv wants the solution to the monk 'stigma' to just be make their dps even higher. Klades posted:I feel like they could shove greased lightning into the chakra mechanic somehow. Like, spend chakra to turn GL on, add generating chakra via weaponskills. People might actually get to use tornado kick! i don't think it will ever be worth using an ability that loses gl3 in situations where gl3 won't fall off on it's own, regardless of how you build greased lightning.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:05
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I think they really need to overhaul SMN and how it works. Mainly make all the egi abilities generic and add a new ability that lets you switch the elemental affinity and look of the egi, so i.e. Ifrit-Egi becomes Ramuh-Egi and does lightning damage instead of fire, which is basically just visual anyway as I'm not really sure if elements actually do anything in this game anyway.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:08
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:i just saw the korean live letter notes. do they really need to remove tank skills? are we losing the visuals for these abilities? how does compiling those skills into one affect anything at all? It's not getting removed, they're just consolidated into one common cooldown shared across the jobs. This means that new players don't have to level X job to Y level just to get some vital cooldown. You'll be seeing the same thing with invigorate, swiftcast, cleric stance, raging strikes, and more. The order you gain buttons will probably be changed as well. Hopefully Shield Oath will be given at 30, and other improvements.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:13
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elemental resistances have an extremely negligible effect on enemy damage done to players and i'm nearly 100 percent sure 'elements' have no effect at all on player damage done to enemies.Zweihander01 posted:It's not getting removed, they're just consolidated into one common cooldown shared across the jobs. This means that new players don't have to level X job to Y level just to get some vital cooldown. You'll be seeing the same thing with invigorate, swiftcast, cleric stance, raging strikes, and more. ok, but...why? it's a feature that needs a function. things like swiftcast and cleric stance etc make sense because the classes that cross-class them don't have access to those effects. this isn't the case with foresight/rampart/shadowskin, all of which when traited accomplish exactly the same thing. the only thing this is is an extremely fringe buff to WAR because other tank classes can no longer bring in Foresight. A 50S RAYGUN fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Mar 6, 2017 |
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Mar 6, 2017 19:14
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:i just saw the korean live letter notes. do they really need to remove tank skills? are we losing the visuals for these abilities? how does compiling those skills into one affect anything at all? It's kind of silly when two classes have two abilities with different names and different graphical effects but do exactly the same thing. For that matter, Cure, Physick, and Benefic could probably be merged into one as well. And yes, monk's biggest issue is lack of utility, but right behind that is the problem with Greased Lightning, which really just compounds the lack of utility. Maybe making it permanent isn't the best solution, but the current situation where your dps goes to poo poo if you stop punching the boss for more than 14 seconds, especially when you don't have a choice in the matter, is really bad.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:17
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Gammatron 64 posted:I think they really need to overhaul SMN and how it works. Mainly make all the egi abilities generic and add a new ability that lets you switch the elemental affinity and look of the egi, so i.e. Ifrit-Egi becomes Ramuh-Egi and does lightning damage instead of fire, which is basically just visual anyway as I'm not really sure if elements actually do anything in this game anyway. They also need to make Contagion a player ability rather than a pet one, because whether you want to use Contagion or not is literally the only thing that matters for pet choice.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:20
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Fister Roboto posted:It's kind of silly when two classes have two abilities with different names and different graphical effects but do exactly the same thing. For that matter, Cure, Physick, and Benefic could probably be merged into one as well. Cure can't crit.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:25
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kojei posted:Cure can't crit. At least not when I cast it
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Mar 6, 2017 19:26
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Fister Roboto posted:It's kind of silly when two classes have two abilities with different names and different graphical effects but do exactly the same thing. For that matter, Cure, Physick, and Benefic could probably be merged into one as well. Yeah, I'm really hoping they consolidate similar skills from different classes into the same thing. Just make Cure \ Physic \ Benefic into "Cure". Make Clemency into like Cure III or IV or whatever. I don't see what's so bad about multiple jobs learning the same ability and just calling it the same thing. Some abilities need to just be renamed so they make more sense, too. Why is Cure IV called Tetragrammatron? WHM has Aero and Stone, just call Fluidic Aura "Water" instead. BLM's Fire, Blizzard and Thunder all have very different properties already. This would make sense because RDM is coming out, but they might just arbitrarily invent new names for actions RDM has that other jobs also have. They might also do just this, as they've talked about having certain abilities available to all jobs within a certain role - i.e. PLD, WAR and DRK will all get Provoke.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:26
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Fister Roboto posted:It's kind of silly when two classes have two abilities with different names and different graphical effects but do exactly the same thing. For that matter, Cure, Physick, and Benefic could probably be merged into one as well. On concept this is exactly the sort of thing we need, but there is something profoundly frustrating about the idea of the healer Jobs needing to slot their basic heals out of the crossclass menu.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:28
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Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah, I'm really hoping they consolidate similar skills from different classes into the same thing. Just make Cure \ Physic \ Benefic into "Cure". Make Clemency into like Cure III or IV or whatever. I don't see what's so bad about multiple jobs learning the same ability and just calling it the same thing. Benefic and Cure have different MP costs. And I don't see the downside of having skills with the same use, but stylised for the different jobs. Clemency into Cure III would be retarded because they're completely different spells that work off of different stats.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:32
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Shaezerus posted:On concept this is exactly the sort of thing we need, but there is something profoundly frustrating about the idea of the healer Jobs needing to slot their basic heals out of the crossclass menu. That... would probably be pretty bad and we'd likely see novice healers go into dungeons without heals equipped. Instead I think we should just have multiple classes natively learn some of the same abilities. Have "Cure" show up in the spell list for WHM, RDM, SCH, etc. Get rid of cross-class abilities period and just give jobs all of what they need to have. Expanding on this, you could make it so certain abilities behave slightly differently depending on what job you're playing, although this might not be the best idea as it would make things even more confusing instead of less.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:34
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i don't really understand what issue that's solving and i don't really think the classes need to become more homogenized. is anyone playing a class and forgetting what their cure is? who is this supposed to help?
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Mar 6, 2017 19:40
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like people for some reason are conflating cross-class skills like swiftcast, which all casters need but do not have, with combining abilities that all classes already have. why?
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Mar 6, 2017 19:44
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:like people for some reason are conflating cross-class skills like swiftcast, which all casters need but do not have, with combining abilities that all classes already have. why? I guess so it'll be like a single player final fantasy and you just buy the black and white magic spells you want?
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Mar 6, 2017 19:45
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there is something to be said for flavor, it's cool that Benefic makes little stars fly around while Cure gives you a more divine/holy rainbow effect. you could say "well then you CC Cure but it takes on the class-specific particle effects" but at that point why are you doing this at all aside from some really weird obsession with truncation.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:46
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One of the things I really like about the classes in this game is that for classes like healers, they get their own flavor of skills and spells even though they're mechanically similar to each other. Homogenizing them would really just take that flavor out and disappoint me.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:47
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It doesn't make any sense to me?  The regular class skills naming is fine.And there's even less of a reason to arbitrarily combine similar skills if you're a lore nerd. Cure uses the elemental power of water to heal wounds, Physic conjurers up the native aether to do similar, and Benefic does something similar but with stars and astrology and poo poo.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:48
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i think all melee classes should also just have Personal Buff 1, Stab 1, Stab 2, and Stab 3. If you Stab 3 when Personal Buff 1 is up, you get to cast Stab 4. all of these will look just like an autoattack.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:48
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Back to off-hand stuff, it'd be nice if Ninja, Bard, and Monk could just stick another weapon in that slot and all it does is just change the appearance of their left hand weapon and quiver to the appearance of that one. No stats or weapon damage taken in to consideration to balance around. Also machinist toolboxes should all have unique looks and get the same treatment tbqh
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Mar 6, 2017 19:53
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Or they could do something crazy like add abilities that are both graphically distinct AND have different functions, while merging all the ones that literally just do the same thing but with a different particle effect.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:54
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Fister Roboto posted:Or they could do something crazy like add abilities that are both graphically distinct AND have different functions, while merging all the ones that literally just do the same thing but with a different particle effect. Too crazy. I can't think of that many skills that are that completely similar though. I've always said Astros should have their own Swiftcast analogue, since they're the most related to time manipulation and whatnot. Wouldn't have needed to CC with THMs then. It could happen after the cross class rework.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:56
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Too crazy. Lightspeed.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:56
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Zweihander01 posted:It's not getting removed, they're just consolidated into one common cooldown shared across the jobs. This means that new players don't have to level X job to Y level just to get some vital cooldown. You'll be seeing the same thing with invigorate, swiftcast, cleric stance, raging strikes, and more. The odd thing is that Rampart and Shadowskin aren't cross-class abilities. They're both native to the job. Nobody is leveling PLD to get Rampart because it doesn't work that way. What I wonder is if this means that some or all role-wide abilities are auto-granted or if we'll have tanks running around without defensive CDs equipped
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Mar 6, 2017 19:57
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kojei posted:Lightspeed. You mean that spell that doesn't make my Resurrection instant cast, and gives me a big damage nerf to offensive spells, and lasts multiple casts? Yeah, that's exactly like Swiftcast.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:57
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hobbesmaster posted:I guess so it'll be like a single player final fantasy and you just buy the black and white magic spells you want? FFXI's jobs were nearly identical to the ones in single player FF games. However games like Final Fantasy V and Tactics made in a time before people had a concept of "game balance" or "online multiplayer", or even what the Internet was, so as a result the job system was super, super unbalanced. And you'd have upwards of a few hundred spells, many of which you will never, ever use.
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Mar 6, 2017 20:00
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Klades posted:The odd thing is that Rampart and Shadowskin aren't cross-class abilities. They're both native to the job. Nobody is leveling PLD to get Rampart because it doesn't work that way. What I wonder is if this means that some or all role-wide abilities are auto-granted or if we'll have tanks running around without defensive CDs equipped I think it means that instead of paladins learning rampart at level 2 and dark knights learning shadow skin at level 2, both paladins and dark knights (and possibly warriors) learn rampart at level 2. I really doubt they'd be stupid enough to completely remove dark knight's defensive cooldowns.
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Mar 6, 2017 20:02
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:You mean that spell that doesn't make my Resurrection instant cast, and gives me a big damage nerf to offensive spells, and lasts multiple casts? I'm sorry, I thought you were asking for a swiftcast analogue keeping in the style of Astrologians, not Literally Swiftcast.
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Mar 6, 2017 20:03
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Klades posted:The odd thing is that Rampart and Shadowskin aren't cross-class abilities. They're both native to the job. Nobody is leveling PLD to get Rampart because it doesn't work that way. What I wonder is if this means that some or all role-wide abilities are auto-granted or if we'll have tanks running around without defensive CDs equipped the average tank doesn't use their loving cooldowns anyway and its the dumbest poo poo. the average pug tank thinks using their defensive c/d is a failing as a tank. this is why they pop foresight at 100 hp so they have like 120 ehp instead of at 1000 so they have 1200 ehp. a lot of this mentality is because even the shittiest tank cooldowns aren't spammable with any frequency enough that they feel right to use in pulls unless you've trained yourself to. the one thing i like about wow more than ffxiv is the active mitigation tank model they've moved to, but i don't think it would work in FFXIV at all because tanks also have non-inconsequential dps rotations. A 50S RAYGUN fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Mar 6, 2017 |
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Mar 6, 2017 20:03
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You wanna know what i want to see go bye bye? Hot Shot. 5% buff, 30 second timer, WHY. Its an almost criminally negligible amount, though it counts enough that you are suboptimal if you dont do it. Just fold 5% damage into the rest of MCH's damage and move on. Lead shot isnt exactly a thrill to use either. Toss their animation effects into the mix of the basic combo as alternate fires. I know this wont happen, but god drat is hot shot just an annoyance. Also give MCH more pistols. This one handed rifle poo poo makes my wrist hurt with sympathy pain.
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Mar 6, 2017 20:23
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Fister Roboto posted:Or they could do something crazy like add abilities that are both graphically distinct AND have different functions, while merging all the ones that literally just do the same thing but with a different particle effect. Why bother loving around with it, though? It doesn't add anything to the game, but still hoovers up dev time. Like, people have too many buttons on their bars, and this is a clear problem, but making rampart/shadowskin crossclass doesn't mean anyone has fewer buttons on their bar. Naming Physick Cure doesn't change that scholars will still have that button on their bars, so what's the point? Talkc posted:You wanna know what i want to see go bye bye? Hot Shot. 5% buff, 30 second timer, WHY. Its an almost criminally negligible amount, though it counts enough that you are suboptimal if you dont do it. The first thing on the chopping block should be things like hot shot and poisons. Boring poo poo that's only there to be either busywork or a thing you have to turn on every time you enter a dungeon and forget about. Damage resist debuffs are only barely better than them, and a rework of how those debuffs work would be a nice thing anyway. Maybe just a general resistance debuff or something. VVVVV fists of fire is another one that can go. I wish they'd either remake it into something else about utility or just have fists of earth and wind. LITERALLY MY FETISH fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Mar 6, 2017 |
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Mar 6, 2017 20:35
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Talkc posted:You wanna know what i want to see go bye bye? Hot Shot. 5% buff, 30 second timer, WHY. Its an almost criminally negligible amount, though it counts enough that you are suboptimal if you dont do it. Just make it Fists of Fire but with a shooter instead of a puncher because that's all FoF is too.
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Mar 6, 2017 20:46
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Fister Roboto posted:I think it means that instead of paladins learning rampart at level 2 and dark knights learning shadow skin at level 2, both paladins and dark knights (and possibly warriors) learn rampart at level 2. I really doubt they'd be stupid enough to completely remove dark knight's defensive cooldowns. Yeah but I just don't see the benefit. Why not just let DRK keep Edgy Rampart?
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Mar 6, 2017 20:53
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Are people really arguing that making two different graphical effects for the exact same ability somehow costs LESS dev time than merging them into one? As to why they're doing it instead of just leaving it alone, I can only guess, but it's probably to keep things consistent with the paradigm of core role abilities being shared. Every tanks gets the exact same provoke, you don't give them all a different provoke with a different name and a different graphical effect.
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Mar 6, 2017 21:06
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My last few posts were a bit too lovely and argumentative. I'll try not to do that this time. There's no mechanical advantage to homogenising all those similar skills. No realistic human being is confused when I say cast cure, but they only have physic. Same for Rampart/Shadowskin, Medica/Helios, Raise/Ascend. Distinct skills also allow for balance tweaks without affecting the other classes. A lot of people ignore it, but I like the lore and flavour behind the different skills. I listed the Cure analogues, but tanks are the same way. Paladins start with a Fast Blade - a swift sword strike. Warriors come in with their Heavy Swing. Mechanically they're the same, but it just fits better with no real downsides. Taking away the artistic differences would make the game lose a lot for me. I'd like them to take the cross-class replacement even further. Paladins keep Provoke. Warriors get their own mechanical similar skill, but with a Warrior twist. Taunt, or Challenge, or something. Dark Knights get their own edge-lord version as well. Yeah, it'll take a bit of dev time to whip up a particle effect, but they're working on a $35,000,000 dollar expansion. I think a bit of artist time will work out. Fister Roboto posted:Are people really arguing that making two different graphical effects for the exact same ability somehow costs LESS dev time than merging them into one? It costs no dev time to keep the distinct abilities the way they are.
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Mar 6, 2017 21:09
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