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They became Ironman. That's the difference Also stupid round faces
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Mar 7, 2017 00:53
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Timby posted:I honestly forget the difference between the Cybusmen and the ones from Nightmare in Silver -- was it that the latter were slimmed up a bit and given that blue light on the chestpiece? Burkion posted:They became Ironman. Essentially, yeah. The RTD Cybermen are the big hulking super-robotic models, and the NiS models are very slim and very Iron-Man inspired.
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Mar 7, 2017 00:59
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RTD's have flared pants. NiS are wearing skinny jeans.
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Mar 7, 2017 01:04
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Mar 7, 2017 01:06
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Bummer.  The Tenth Planet ones actually work a little better today in some ways, because there's something very Black Mirror about the mostly human thing that's lacking empathy anymore, as represented by its mostly human presentation with a face that seems vaguely robotic, like it's just wearing enough machine parts and using just enough computer brain that the organic, human portion of it is the actually the suit, even if it looks like a person in a robot costume. That, more than "body horror" is what makes Cybermen good, I think, which is why, even if they don't work 100 percent in the season 8 finale, they are definitely Cybermen. (I mean, really, there have been just about three good Cybermen stories out of... how many? And all of them were in the 60s and one of them is tainted by racism. If anything, the bad, "Exxxxcellent!/DELETE!!" Cyberman are what they are, at this point, let's not argue over what is a Cyberman story and what isn't). I'm disappointed that all the versions are there, but if most of them are mostly around for an Easter Egg kind of thing and the bulk of the episode is the original Cybermen, this episode has the potential to the fourth best Cyberman story.
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Mar 7, 2017 01:38
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Best Cybermen
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Mar 7, 2017 01:43
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Like the teardrop eye thing kind of works, but I want them to look vaguely like people in a robo-suit, basically, because our own paranoia at the moment involves how much the pleasant-sounding little voice-recognition AI machines connected to all human knowledge are both like us and not like us, not to mention all of the Luddite thinkpieces about how our interaction with technology reduces our capacity for genuine social interaction. Body horror? Whatever. This is (or should be) about a thing that we made that looks and sounds vaguely human, but isn't in disturbing ways, and how maybe it's actually more human than we want to think it is.
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Mar 7, 2017 01:46
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this is more thought than they've put in the episode which is "a reference could fit here, let's put in a reference here" just calling it now
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Mar 7, 2017 01:47
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I actually like Age of Steel / Rise of the Cybermen and the Doomsday episodes a lot because I feel there is genuine body horror going on.
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Mar 7, 2017 01:47
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Rise of the Cybermen was definitely starting down that path with the whole evil bluetooth headsets thing but then seemed to give up on the idea. And obviously it's really dated now.
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Mar 7, 2017 01:48
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Bicyclops posted:Body horror? Whatever. This is (or should be) about a thing that we made that looks and sounds vaguely human, but isn't in disturbing ways, and how maybe it's actually more human than we want to think it is. Yes, that's a good example of body horror.
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Mar 7, 2017 01:52
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The_Doctor posted:Yes, that's a good example of body horror. Body horror is a more generic term, though, and is more applicable when it comes to say, The Thing or Alien or Rosemary's Baby. Also, it is not always well-employed. A whole lot of people have seemed to have laid claim to the term as "Horror, but the kind that I like, and is scary," when something like House of Wax can definitely be called body horror, but is a terrible, terrible movie. "The Cybmermen will be good when they're body horror again" is a weird genre preference I used to prescribe to, but I think it's best to disavow it. They'll be good when they relevantly reflect our concerns about the symbiotic relationship between humanity and technology through poignant fictional tropes, whether or not that is done more through "body horror" or through addressing the difference between human cognition and a computer. The Dark Water two-parter does the latter better than the grand majority of Cyberman stories, and I think saying "It's not a Cyberman story because it's not body horror" is like saying "It's not Doctor Who because it falls outside of science fiction genre lines.'
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Mar 7, 2017 02:19
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Bicyclops posted:This is (or should be) about a thing that we made that looks and sounds vaguely human, but isn't in disturbing ways, and how maybe it's actually more human than we want to think it is. Yeah I kind of like that approach better myself. They're far creepier when they look more like meat puppets being dragged around by the technology instead of just robots.
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Mar 7, 2017 02:25
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 HOLY loving poo poo!!!! This is the second most excited I've been by Doctor Who since Night of the Doctor! LOOOOOOVE the Mondasian Cybermen, especially after their Big Finish appearances. I always wanted to see them brought back, and leave it to Moffat and Capaldi to make it happen! 
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Mar 7, 2017 04:43
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Mokinokaro posted:Yeah I kind of like that approach better myself. They're far creepier when they look more like meat puppets being dragged around by the technology instead of just robots. Agreed. I might be in the minority here, but I actually prefer their suits looking baggy and ill-fitting, with a helmet crammed on top. I can imagine a body in there with all sorts of whathaveyou done to it, preserved in fluid or sealed up like a ziplock bag. You can imagine this being a slow transformation, with these being later stage cybermen, the ones who needed the most help to stay alive. Why wouldn't they wear boots with laces or have bare hands? They look wrong, rather than standardized. And when you can still see the eyes inside the ski-mask? Way scarier than any of the Iron Man suits.    
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Mar 7, 2017 06:01
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You can obtain the same effect without having special effects that look straight out of the 60s, but I'm not sure we're ever going to agree on that. 
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Mar 7, 2017 06:02
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See that's the thing. Thta's what I don't like about this even ignoring the fact that they've already betrayed how far they're really going to take the concept They could do this concept better. Of course they could. They just don't want to. The closest you'll get is remakes of the old suits which only work in concept and in intent, not because they actually worked. The best suits to me were the Invasion suits. Those pulled off the body bag being forced to move by mechanical stuff the best. You could easily do a great, amazing take on that. They won't though. It's either retro design that didn't even work at the time, hence why they IMMEDIATELY got a brand new design almost every time they reappeared, or Iron Man knock off.
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Mar 7, 2017 06:22
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I really like this idea: https://twitter.com/seanmossy/status/838871444553596929
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Mar 7, 2017 10:26
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cargohills posted:I really like this idea: Ooh creepy
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Mar 7, 2017 10:30
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I wonder if they are going to actually completely redo Spare Parts again, but more faithfully to the original? I have mixed feelings about that. On the one hand, it was a great story which deserves to be told on screen. On the other hand, it would decanonize one of the best Big Finish and Fifth Doctor stories, and goes against Moffat's general policy that Big Finish is canon. They already did this with Human Nature, but the New Adventures books have firmly moved into non-canon status; BF not so much.
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Mar 7, 2017 12:58
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I wouldn't say they're doing Spare Parts, what with the other two generations of Cybermen. This is also the story with Missy apparently too, though. I'm actually pretty excited for this one.
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Mar 7, 2017 13:14
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:You can obtain the same effect without having special effects that look straight out of the 60s, but I'm not sure we're ever going to agree on that. Nah, I think we can agree there. The old suits look cool and creepy in black and white with the slow theatrical pacing, but I'm not sure they would work for the modern quick-cut-gun-and-run of today's Who. They can look homespun and not so sleek without looking like they were made from ducttape and whatever the props department could save from the dumpster outside the set of A for Andromeda.
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Mar 7, 2017 16:44
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I like the cloth masks a lot. I'm not entirely sure why, I just do. In "The Tenth Planet", they sort of remind me of some of those awful First World War pictures of men who'd taken a face full of mustard gas and ended up badly disfigured, and were either given rudimentary plastic surgery or false faces made of tin. That's probably a tasteless comparison to make, but it's what I think of when I see them.
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Mar 7, 2017 17:08
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I mean that's generally the idea behind the Cybermen
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Mar 7, 2017 18:48
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Oh god the Master is going to be in the final two episodes isn't she Oh Christ no
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Mar 7, 2017 19:16
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She's great though?
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Mar 7, 2017 20:56
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cargohills posted:She's great though? We literally just had a conversation about why I didn't like the last two parter she was in with the Cybermen Just let the Cybermen have their own goddamn story we don't need the Master in devaluing them yet again
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Mar 7, 2017 20:58
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The_Doctor posted:This is also the story with Missy apparently too, though. I'm actually pretty excited for this one. @Exactly this but the precise opposite
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Mar 7, 2017 21:00
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Burkion posted:We literally just had a conversation about why I didn't like the last two parter she was in with the Cybermen Have you ever considered that it's good, actually
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Mar 7, 2017 21:51
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cargohills posted:Have you ever considered that it's good, actually A lot of what is good and what is not is subjective. I personally do not like those two episodes for a number of reasons. I do not like the writing I do not like the way the characters acted and I do not like how it went. Lots of things I do not like, lots of things that did not matter. So I do not think they were good. If you enjoyed them, good for you, but I did not. Seeing the Master and the Cybermen queued up for yet another two part finale does not fill me with hope, what little I had before it got dashed by having the new models still around.
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Mar 7, 2017 21:56
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the brigadier's lookin' good.
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Mar 7, 2017 22:08
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AndyElusive posted:the brigadier's lookin' good. thanks for reminding us, I had forgotten about that
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Mar 7, 2017 22:15
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AndyElusive posted:the brigadier's lookin' good. That's Adric, what are you talking about?
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Mar 7, 2017 22:15
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Just a reminder that comics artist Andy Walker predicted this 2 years ago.
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Mar 7, 2017 22:19
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AndyElusive posted:the brigadier's lookin' good. I had forgotten about that loving travesty
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Mar 7, 2017 22:24
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Let's honour a guy who recently died by having him die in the programme and then have his zombie save the day
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Mar 7, 2017 22:25
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Dabir posted:thanks for reminding us, I had forgotten about that MrL_JaKiri posted:I had forgotten about that loving travesty 
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Mar 7, 2017 22:47
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The_Doctor posted:Just a reminder that comics artist Andy Walker predicted this 2 years ago. Whoah... what's this from?
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Mar 7, 2017 23:18
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Let's honour a guy who recently died by having him die in the programme and then have his zombie save the day The two-parter is over-criticized, but hoo boy: this was an extremely stupid, disrespectful and indefensible decision by any and all metrics, and they should be ashamed of writing and filming it.
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Mar 8, 2017 01:06
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Too late now from the photos, but I would have gone with a slight visual upgrade of the suit that is also in keeping with the old ones. A big problem for a modern audience is that the metallic cloth suits probably just look cheap. So play up the fact that it is a protective suit over human flesh, not a robot, by actually showing that. A transparent suit with a metallic sheen where you can see glimpses of the human limbs inside it.
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Mar 8, 2017 01:26
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