|
stevewm posted:I don't want to see or hear anything more about credit cards, ever again... Oh, you're introducing PIN credit cards in US now? When I visited US I got retailers that had no idea how to use a PIN CC. Their system accepted the cards but they just put it in then take it out (not giving the terminal to me to put the PIN in) and then wonder that the transaction got declined. But it is much simpler to just swipe and sign the drat receipt. Wireless is even easier for small (under $100) transactions. And since it provides no benefit to the customer (the PIN), no wonder people are reluctant to use it when what they had before was working just fine.
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2017 23:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 07:25 |
|
|
Volguus posted:And since it provides no benefit to the customer (the PIN), Uh....
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2017 23:16
|
|
|
Volguus posted:Oh, you're introducing PIN credit cards in US now? When I visited US I got retailers that had no idea how to use a PIN CC. Their system accepted the cards but they just put it in then take it out (not giving the terminal to me to put the PIN in) and then wonder that the transaction got declined. But it is much simpler to just swipe and sign the drat receipt. Wireless is even easier for small (under $100) transactions. I ran into the opposite problem when traveling in Europe a couple years ago. Plenty of people didn't know what to do when my card didn't ask for a pin and their machine spat out an extra piece of paper.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2017 23:18
|
|
|
Contactless payment in a pub is dangerous, let me tell you
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2017 23:21
|
|
|
Thanks Ants posted:Contactless payment in a pub is dangerous, let me tell you I agree. The only solution is to not step inside a pub. Avenging_Mikon posted:Uh.... What is the advantage to the consumer of having a PIN to the credit card? The money is not theirs, not until they pay the bill .The card gets stolen, they get the charges reversed. I can see how it helps Visa, the merchants and the payment providers, but the consumer? And please, don't say it helps lowering transaction fees, cause' those are now in the stratosphere.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2017 23:29
|
|
|
By helping the card companies avoid malicious use, the card companies burn less on those types of issues and the savings are passed on to you (lol)
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2017 23:33
|
|
|
RFC2324 posted:Didn't MS stop supporting Silverlight quite a while back? EOL in 2012, yes. Still gets patches for a while yet but 0 development.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2017 23:35
|
|
|
It is still supported on IE11 until 2020 (I think it's 2020 maybe 2021 or something), so while they are not actively developing it, you can still get support for it and it should theoretically still work.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2017 23:38
|
|
|
Volguus posted:What is the advantage to the consumer of having a PIN to the credit card? The money is not theirs, not until they pay the bill .The card gets stolen, they get the charges reversed. I can see how it helps Visa, the merchants and the payment providers, but the consumer? And please, don't say it helps lowering transaction fees, cause' those are now in the stratosphere. Getting your card cloned is still a massive pain the arse, even if you aren't eventually liable for the charges
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2017 23:45
|
|
|
Thanks Ants posted:Contactless payment in a pub is dangerous, let me tell you My bank used to give me 2% cash back on contactless payments. I must admit, it felt like I was being paid to drink. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2017 23:53
|
|
|
Volguus posted:I agree. The only solution is to not step inside a pub. gently caress transaction fees, it's all about the speed and not having to hand cards between people. From the service side: most people don't carry pens, but are more than happy to take them, and I don't want to touch your drat card. From the customer side: I keep control of my card, I don't need to flip my card around to align with the stripe reader, chips don't wear out as quickly, so fewer replacement cards where I need to swing by the bank, 4 digits is faster than signing even without the pen hunt. Why would I ever want to sign for a purchase? It's a terrible system. And if you meant chip and sig, lol, that's only in the US because Americans couldn't be trusted to remember 4 numbers. In Canada it's always been chip and pin.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 01:11
|
|
|
Attempting to explain asynchronous routing to a somewhat IT person (PBX guy). Pretty sure the deer in headlights look he had meant he didn't understand anything. Hopefully he has someone he can ask about it, because his poo poo is hosed and it's not my problem (except it is because client is pisssssssed but I don't have access to his poo poo)
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 03:02
|
|
|
It was mildly amusing to go to the US last year and realise we would be teaching some shop assistants how to use their chip and pin machines when they didn't know what was going on with our cards 
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 13:56
|
|
|
stevewm posted:I don't want to see or hear anything more about credit cards, ever again... Is this in the US I take it? When I went there last year, in Hawaii I paid for a Starbucks with contactless payment. The guy working the till looked all confused and said "Wait... did you just.... pay?" and I had to explain it to him when the receipt spat out that yes this is infact how you can buy poo poo. Its weird how all the infrastructure is there and they can take the payments but apparently nobody ever, ever does. A coffee shop is the perfect low value quick turnaround thing where you want a contactless payment. Thanks Ants posted:Contactless payment in a pub is dangerous, let me tell you Mine seems to have some kind of built in alcohol meter safety thing or something. When i get to 10ish payments in a day, the contactless stops working and forces you to chip and pin once before contactless comes back to life again, which conveniently makes you stop and try to remember your PIN when you are somewhere around "im totally pissed" and can save you from reaching "absolutely poo poo-tittered, why is all this kebab down my shirt" Ahdinko fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Mar 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 14:38
|
|
|
Ahdinko posted:Is this in the US I take it? When I went there last year, in Hawaii I paid for a Starbucks with contactless payment. The guy working the till looked all confused and said "Wait... did you just.... pay?" and I had to explain it to him when the receipt spat out that yes this is infact how you can buy poo poo. Its weird how all the infrastructure is there and they can take the payments but apparently nobody ever, ever does. A coffee shop is the perfect low value quick turnaround thing where you want a contactless payment. The problem there is that the counter drone never receives even a pamphlet to explain it to them. Here they recently pushed contactless a bit, leading to them asking you to use it, I've even seen some of them asking to hand over the card so they could hold it over the reader. It's really helped with the whole "It doesn't work" when actually you just gotta enter your pin again.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 14:53
|
|
|
Volguus posted:What is the advantage to the consumer of having a PIN to the credit card? The money is not theirs, not until they pay the bill .The card gets stolen, they get the charges reversed. I can see how it helps Visa, the merchants and the payment providers, but the consumer? And please, don't say it helps lowering transaction fees, cause' those are now in the stratosphere.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 15:16
|
|
|
Super Slash posted:I'd rather my bank account not get ganked thanks, it's only a 4 digit PIN that doesn't even register as an inconvenience. This is years back. But me and a friend were going through a grocery shop and at the register he put his card in and legit forgot his pin. He stood there for a few minutes trying his best to remember his pin. Naturally 5 mins after leaving the shop, he remembered it. Contactless would have saved him back then. This may be just me but I would really love the amazon go shop to be the future for all shops. because every time I go into a grocery shop, I feel like the security person is watching me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 15:24
|
|
|
On the other hand, without contactless there are no issues with people on the bus/train/pub/etc. stealing money from you in $10 increments without your knowledge. Yes you can say "hey not my problem the bank will refund it" but that money is coming from somewhere, there are a whole host of other factors in the equation than "money in my account". I'm looking forward to fingerprint readers on cards where yes, you can do contactless, but you have to have your card scan and match your fingerprint first before it will complete the transaction, which will defeat a lot of contactless fraud that doesn't involve severing digits. Sheep fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Mar 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 15:45
|
|
|
Sheep posted:On the other hand, without contactless there are no issues with people on the bus/train/pub/etc. stealing money from you in $10 increments without your knowledge. For these people to steal money from your card, they will have to have set up a merchant account with the credit card company, so it would be extremely easy for VISA etc to work out who was doing it. And pass on all their details to the cops. And then VISA simply grabs back the money from them and refunds it to the cardholders.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 15:50
|
|
|
Ahdinko posted:Is this in the US I take it? Yep! The US went for chip and signature, instead of chip and pin. Though I have heard there are a handful of credit card issuers that actually have went the chip and pin route. Even more confusing, with the new CC pads at our stores, instead of just asking "Credit" or "Debit" as is customary in the US. Our pads show the AIDs (application identifiers) on the chip itself. So if a customer inserts a debit card, they may get asked if they want "DEBIT VISA" or "US DEBIT". for example. The "DEBIT VISA" choice will run the transaction as a credit card via the VISA payment network with a signature, while the "US DEBIT" option will run the payment via one of the Debit/ATM networks asking for a PIN#. Our EMV implementation is the only one I have seen so far that does this, at least in our area.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 15:52
|
|
|
spog posted:For these people to steal money from your card, they will have to have set up a merchant account with the credit card company, so it would be extremely easy for VISA etc to work out who was doing it. And pass on all their details to the cops. That's a good point. Still, it's apparently possible to more or less copy contactless cards' details and make fraudulent purchases online, so it seems we've not yet solved the problem with credit cards. stevewm posted:Even more confusing, with the new CC pads at our stores, instead of just asking "Credit" or "Debit" as is customary in the US. Our pads show the AIDs (application identifiers) on the chip itself. So if a customer inserts a debit card, they may get asked if they want "DEBIT VISA" or "US DEBIT". for example. The "DEBIT VISA" choice will run the transaction as a credit card via the VISA payment network with a signature, while the "US DEBIT" option will run the payment via one of the Debit/ATM networks asking for a PIN#. Our EMV implementation is the only one I have seen so far that does this, at least in our area. This confuses me to no end because no two terminals are ever the same. Sheep fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Mar 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 15:57
|
|
|
Sheep posted:That's a good point. Still, it's apparently possible to more or less copy contactless cards' details and make fraudulent purchases online, so it seems we've not yet solved the problem with credit cards. Most online retailers require the CVV code from the back of the card and you can't get that from skimming cards: so I'd say that the problem lies with the online side of things, rather than the card themselves. EDIT: If it sounds like I am fanboi of contactless, it's more that magstripe and signature is such a stupidly out of date technology that should have been obsoleted once magstripe readers became available to the general public - i.e. about 25 years ago. spog fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Mar 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 16:29
|
|
|
Pissing me off today: Dynamics NAV. Again. I have a repeat customer that wants work done on another unit in another condo. She's already in the system as a contact. Can I do a new Sales Lead Questionnaire under her contact with a different address? No, because "The value of the Address flow field must be Decimal" is what comes up if Contact Address != Lead Address. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 17:01
|
|
|
Pissing me off: send an email to a user with their ERP credentials on their first day. Monday: "Please send $idiot_unable_to_read_his_email his login credentials." I resend them. Today: "$same_idiot needs his credentials or he won't be able to get paid on time!"
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 17:26
|
|
|
Sheep posted:On the other hand, without contactless there are no issues with people on the bus/train/pub/etc. stealing money from you in $10 increments without your knowledge. Yes you can say "hey not my problem the bank will refund it" but that money is coming from somewhere, there are a whole host of other factors in the equation than "money in my account". I love that you worry about a very theoretical attack, but at the same talk about fingerprints as a safe option. You do know fingerprint scanner payments have been exploited very successfully in the wild?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 17:36
|
|
|
Credit card/ debit card stuff in the UK. Swipe and sign went out years ago. The contactless payment thing is being used more and more but its still limited to low cost stuff. There was a pit of a panic when it first came in. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22545804 . QVC selling wallets and purses that stop your card being read.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 17:45
|
|
|
mikemelbrooks posted:Credit card/ debit card stuff in the UK. Are you sure it only works low cost? It should be harmonized to swipe without pin for low cost stuff and swipe+pin for everything a bit more expensive.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 17:52
|
|
|
spog posted:Getting your card cloned is still a massive pain the arse, even if you aren't eventually liable for the charges You cant clone a chip
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 17:55
|
|
|
SEKCobra posted:I love that you worry about a very theoretical attack, but at the same talk about fingerprints as a safe option. You do know fingerprint scanner payments have been exploited very successfully in the wild? Biometrics are awful for authentication. Most people who advocate for it have never actually given any critical thought to its applications. lampey posted:You cant clone a chip Want to bet? http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6956556/?reload=true
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 17:56
|
|
|
The head of my BU asked this week if we could just put a new thousand dollar Tripp Lite smart UPS on "something" in the aisle between server racks because they didn't want to pay for an electrician to come out and move an outlet to where the power cord for the UPS could reach it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 18:05
|
|
|
I think it was defcon last year or two years ago they also proved you could capture data from the chip cards from a fair distance away (miles rather than the couple feet that they claim). Obviously someone else could have shown this before, but that's when I heard about it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 18:09
|
|
|
MF_James posted:I think it was defcon last year or two years ago they also proved you could capture data from the chip cards from a fair distance away (miles rather than the couple feet that they claim).
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 18:12
|
|
|
NFC-based payment systems are safer than EMV only because the liability shift towards the consumer doesn't occur.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 18:27
|
|
|
quote:The first flaw is that some EMV implementers have merely used ... home-grown algorithms to supply this nonce.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 18:27
|
|
|
anthonypants posted:I'm fairly certain this was about NFC Yup you're right, should have fact checked myself!
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 18:33
|
|
|
The most secure option is go back to cash and get a concealed carry license. Also a high quality mattress at home. Take that, thieves. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 18:36
|
|
|
SEKCobra posted:Are you sure it only works low cost? It should be harmonized to swipe without pin for low cost stuff and swipe+pin for everything a bit more expensive. There is a £30 limit at the moment, but as the cards already have a chip, you would just chip and pin if you wanted to spend more. I can't remember the last time my card was swiped. The £30 limit is seems to be a arbitrary limit, as consumer confidence grows I am sure it will increase, it already has doubled.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 18:40
|
|
|
Ahdinko posted:Is this in the US I take it? When I went there last year, in Hawaii I paid for a Starbucks with contactless payment. The guy working the till looked all confused and said "Wait... did you just.... pay?" and I had to explain it to him when the receipt spat out that yes this is infact how you can buy poo poo. Its weird how all the infrastructure is there and they can take the payments but apparently nobody ever, ever does. A coffee shop is the perfect low value quick turnaround thing where you want a contactless payment. There was actually a big push for tap-to-pay in the US a few years back which just as quickly died off, amid a bunch of consumers being paranoid about their stuff being stolen and a bunch of other consumers not understanding or caring to use it. I remember my bank issuing me a new debit card with the tap to pay chip built in one year at the normal time they issue new cards, then having them rush out a replacement without the feature about 18 months later with a slip of paper that just said "because of security reasons the contactless payment feature has been discontinued", more or less. You still have most of the infrastructure to handle the contactless payment around though, because stores sure ain't going to "upgrade" again to get rid of them when they already paid a bunch of money to get them. And a decent amount of banks still offer it if you ask - but people don't usually ask.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 18:43
|
|
|
mikemelbrooks posted:There is a £30 limit at the moment, but as the cards already have a chip, you would just chip and pin if you wanted to spend more. I can't remember the last time my card was swiped. The £30 limit is seems to be a arbitrary limit, as consumer confidence grows I am sure it will increase, it already has doubled. We have a 25 € limit, above that you also have to enter the pin. You also have to enter your pin every 5 or so transactions.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 18:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 07:25 |
|
|
fishmech posted:There was actually a big push for tap-to-pay in the US a few years back which just as quickly died off, amid a bunch of consumers being paranoid about their stuff being stolen and a bunch of other consumers not understanding or caring to use it. It also didn't help that the most advertised option was Google Pay and that it was limited to only Verizon phones.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 18:45
|
|
