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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:That but unironically. I said that the be as unironic as possible.
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Mar 2, 2017 18:59
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double nine posted:Post it on a comedy forum so it gets traction. This is the practical organization and involvement thread. If you care about this stuff, there are lots of resources here to make real change happen right now. Go do something and report back! If you're unsure where to start, ask and we'll help.
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Mar 2, 2017 20:14
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:This is the practical organization and involvement thread. If you care about this stuff, there are lots of resources here to make real change happen right now. Go do something and report back! If you're unsure where to start, ask and we'll help. As a Belgian, there are a few obstacles for that. Not being a US national for starts. I could go to the US embassy in Brussels but I doubt that'll go up the grapevine in any meaningful way. I've got enough drama with my national lefty parties being blown into obscurity, it's nice to come here for a whiff of lefteous fury.
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Mar 2, 2017 20:25
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Foreigners out! This is an American thread for Americans.
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Mar 2, 2017 20:30
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Shbobdb posted:Foreigners out! This is an American thread for Americans. No it absolutely is not. Read the OP. double nine posted:As a Belgian, there are a few obstacles for that. Not being a US national for starts. I could go to the US embassy in Brussels but I doubt that'll go up the grapevine in any meaningful way. Get involved with the PTB. If you think they're irrelevant, you're wrong. You don't need seats to change national politics. Standing to the left of the Socialists drags them inevitably left as well. If France falls to the National Front, Belgium is next. Far right fascism is an EU problem just as much as it is an American one. edit: Go to this on Saturday if you can: http://ptb.be/agenda/brunch-avec-table-ronde, and afterward, https://www.facebook.com/events/760515717431591/ Dr. Fishopolis fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 20:40
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Goon Danton posted:I meant more the whole "The revolution, like Saturn, devours its children" thing the guy in my avatar supposedly said. Pretty much everybody associated with the "guillotine everyone" phase of the Revolution got fed to it eventually (the most notable exception in my mind being the arch-technocrat Carnot himself). The actual reason is a failed video game indiegogo campaign tho.
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Mar 2, 2017 23:04
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:No it absolutely is not. Read the OP. Uh Shbobdb is really unstable and making GBS threads up the rest of D&D with a conspiracy gimmick that's wearing rather thin. Just ignore him, dude.
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Mar 3, 2017 12:38
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Tias posted:Uh Shbobdb is really unstable and making GBS threads up the rest of D&D with a conspiracy gimmick that's wearing rather thin. Just ignore him, dude. I already do, I just didn't want people who don't to think this was an America-only thing.
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Mar 3, 2017 20:03
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:I already do, I just didn't want people who don't to think this was an America-only thing. Yeah it's just that leftism in other countries has historically been slightly more effective, whereas in the US the concept of a right to healthcare and a state taking responsibility for the welfare of indigents is essentially sedition so naturally under the circumstances people will immediately be assuming this is another in a long line of tries to push for those lofty first-world goals like nationalized health care and more progressive/comprehensive/redistributive tax policy. All that said, poo poo's getting bad in a lot of those nominally social democracy countries because they're totally independently turning against global/'western' diplomacy and embracing xenophobia while reaching out for stronger ties with Russia at the same time for some reason. Strong leftist movements are needed to combat that poo poo globally, so this absolutely should be an International thread.
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Mar 4, 2017 00:34
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FAUXTON posted:All that said, poo poo's getting bad in a lot of those nominally social democracy countries because they're totally independently turning against global/'western' diplomacy and embracing xenophobia while reaching out for stronger ties with Russia at the same time for some reason.
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Mar 4, 2017 04:50
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Veyrall posted:I am physically incapable of understanding subtlety. Please explain this, even though it's probably slightly off-topic. Whole lot of right-wing candidates happened to have appeared out of the ether all over the world and have strolled into power on scooping together the previously-alienated xenophobia/islamophobia/protectionist voting blocs while name-dropping blue-collar labor just enough to lull the left into naptime. Once they get in it's been one axe after another swung against the post-WWII diplomatic/economic stability of institutions like NATO and the EU.
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Mar 4, 2017 05:27
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Revolutions eat their children. It's just taken longer for the feast to start on the Capitalist revolution. People have finally become comfortable enough that the old forces of reaction are able to rise up. It's all "End of History" instead of thinking what sort of a deviation we've all enjoyed. Edit: Also, I thought making a sweet xenophobic joke would at least get a chuckle in the "serious leftism" thread.
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Mar 4, 2017 07:28
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suppose we are mandated to provide a both fair and balanced view on every word spoken on this forum and/or no, we can say whatever without repercussion, cool got it, moving on
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Mar 4, 2017 12:06
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Does anyone have any good reads on why Keynesianism failed? Was it just the inevitable upward drift of capital destabilizing the system?
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Mar 4, 2017 14:29
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I wasn't aware it did? The ruling powers just decided they didn't want to do it any more and convinced people it was a good idea to go turbocapitalist.
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Mar 4, 2017 14:44
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Some European nations and the US experienced inflation and slow economies/declines in employment for a lot of the 70s: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagflation I guess there's no reason it is inherently or exclusively linked to economic policy in those nations rather than, say, electing cunts like Nixon and a changing geopolitical scene.
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Mar 4, 2017 14:55
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Jack Gladney posted:Does anyone have any good reads on why Keynesianism failed? Was it just the inevitable upward drift of capital destabilizing the system? Two good books on the topic are: Great Transformations: Economic Ideas and Institutional Change by Mark Blyth The Origins of International Economic Disorder: A Study of United States International Monetary Policy From World War II to the Present by Fred Block
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Mar 4, 2017 15:28
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https://www.damninteresting.com/foreign-exchanges/
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Mar 4, 2017 15:50
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joepinetree posted:Two good books on the topic are: Thank you! I have read some of Block's book on Polanyi and enjoyed it. Unrelated: does anyone know the best/a good edition of Gramsci? Probably a selection, as I can't break the bank on a three-volume set.
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Mar 4, 2017 19:48
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OwlFancier posted:I wasn't aware it did? The ruling powers just decided they didn't want to do it any more and convinced people it was a good idea to go turbocapitalist. If anything, Keynesianism experienced a revival after the GFC.
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Mar 4, 2017 21:44
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this is oversimplistic. The thing with the end of bretton woods is not just that the US could print more money. It is also that the system of capital controls and pegged exchange rates broke down.
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Mar 5, 2017 07:06
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There is a special election going on in Georgia. Democrats, hell anyone, should be working hard to flip this seat. http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/can-this-democrat-win-the-georgia-sixth?mbid=social_facebook
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Mar 5, 2017 16:16
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Hey, does anyone know any good resources for environmentalist activists? I have a friend who prioritizes animal rights and the environment, and I think we could have a useful ally in the green movement, as long as it's not married to luddism. It helps that a lot of the current right-wing political sphere is so blatantly corporatist that they outright attack environmentalism because
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Mar 7, 2017 05:17
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Veyrall posted:Hey, does anyone know any good resources for environmentalist activists? I have a friend who prioritizes animal rights and the environment, and I think we could have a useful ally in the green movement, as long as it's not married to luddism. It helps that a lot of the current right-wing political sphere is so blatantly corporatist that they outright attack environmentalism because you are coming at things with the assumption that people who want to save the environment are probably into "luddism" as you mentioned, and you also don't seem to have any defined goal or direction which you want to educate your friend. Either you're concern-trolling, or you're too lazy to google "resources for environmental activists" but either way you are not asking correctly, and you may or may not be making some stuff up. I will also provide a couple valuable resources for you, be careful they may not stick around for long: https://www.climate.gov/ https://www.epa.gov/
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Mar 7, 2017 09:59
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coyo7e posted:yes, I do know good resources. what's the question? I'm not a huge animal rights activist, but my friend believes that dolphins need much more space than a tank can provide, and that most dolphins for these attractions are acquired unethically in dolphin hunts and suffer serious mental and physical trauma as a result. Therefore, she opposes putting a dolphin tank in the aquarium. So, with context established, my exact question would be; does anyone know of any animal rights groups or aquatic advocacy groups in or around the Gulf Coast that I could put my friend in touch with, to better direct her passion into meaningful and positive action? coyo7e posted:you are coming at things with the assumption that people who want to save the environment are probably into "luddism"
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Mar 7, 2017 10:28
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Anyone ITT that's created or worked in dual-language leftist orgs and have advice? (I'm thinking ones that are built dual-language from day 1, not just "we have a translator"). The one i have in mind would be ENG/ESP but Canadian chums may have ENG/FRA experiences to share. 
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Mar 7, 2017 18:22
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Cross posting this from the New York City/New York State politics thread, but it seemed relevant here as well. I attended a meeting of a local Indivisible group in NYC this Sunday. It was very interesting and a breath of fresh air to see some actual organization around action. I typed up my notes from the meeting so that folks could get a sense of what a local chapter of Indivisible is actually doing. Generally, this seems to be very different from DSA. It's explicitly not about producing or pushing a policy agenda, but rather about specific local actions that can be taken to apply pressure on Congress to oppose the Trump administration. Indivisible Meeting – 3/5/2017 Introductory Notes
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Mar 7, 2017 18:24
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is indivisible ny doing anything for the single payer bill ny just introduced?
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Mar 7, 2017 23:09
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truavatar posted:indivisible stuff How do you(and I guess people in general) feel about your local Indivisible group in terms of lasting action? The one in my area is a bunch old white lady liberals who scoff at counter-protesters and shout you down if you call them hypocrites when they talk poo poo about counter-protests is counter productive and off message for the whole "We are Indivisible!" slogan. I was like, "maybe looking at what we can do to plan court support for those arrested would be more productive?" I decided they're a bunch of centrists looking for some feel goods by dunking on Trump and to not waste my time beyond trolling their Facebook page.
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Mar 7, 2017 23:37
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Doorknob Slobber posted:How do you(and I guess people in general) feel about your local Indivisible group in terms of lasting action? The one in my area is a bunch old white lady liberals who scoff at counter-protesters and shout you down if you call them hypocrites when they talk poo poo about counter-protests is counter productive and off message for the whole "We are Indivisible!" slogan. I was like, "maybe looking at what we can do to plan court support for those arrested would be more productive?" I decided they're a bunch of centrists looking for some feel goods by dunking on Trump and to not waste my time beyond trolling their Facebook page. Every group is going to be different. I found my current main org through Indivisible, but they're notable for not really limiting themselves to the "negative agenda" of the guide nor being affiliated with the Democratic Party. Another group I met up with through it is more like what you're describing but does a lot of real-life protest and confrontation with elected officials. "Old white lady liberals" roam the scene with varying levels of influence and lameness.
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Mar 7, 2017 23:41
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Doorknob Slobber posted:How do you(and I guess people in general) feel about your local Indivisible group in terms of lasting action? The one in my area is a bunch old white lady liberals who scoff at counter-protesters and shout you down if you call them hypocrites when they talk poo poo about counter-protests is counter productive and off message for the whole "We are Indivisible!" slogan. I was like, "maybe looking at what we can do to plan court support for those arrested would be more productive?" I decided they're a bunch of centrists looking for some feel goods by dunking on Trump and to not waste my time beyond trolling their Facebook page. If you're going to an Indivisible meeting hoping for battle hardened antifa types, you're looking in the wrong place. Indivisible is not about smashing the state, it's about putting Democrats back in power. If you want to be effective there, be a calm and rational voice, work within their system, find common ground and try and build a coalition with the more left-leaning members. If you don't want to do that, then that's fine too, stick with DSA / SURJ / Socialist Alternative and grow that presence in your community. Calling people hypocrites and trolling their facebook page is pointless and aggravating, so stop doing that. In general, remember that this is a fight against neoliberal center-rightism. A LOT of people are starting to realize that the end point of this system is fascism, but they don't have the imagination to consider any other system than the one they know. Most people will fight to return to the soft, familiar side of Democratic rule without wanting to face the fact that the DNC playbook ends up in the same place that the Republican one does. You have a vision for the future. You can't shout at people to get them to see what you see. You have to show it to them in terms they can understand. Dr. Fishopolis fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 23:50
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I'm all about DSA, but there's also the post-Bernie Our Revolution and Knock Every Door, if you're all about getting yelled at/yelling at old boomer shits right there on their front stoops.
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Mar 8, 2017 00:07
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:You have a vision for the future. You can't shout at people to get them to see what you see. You have to show it to them in terms they can understand. probably true, but shouting at people who can only spout liberal media talking points is just as fun as shouting at people who can only repeat right wing ones
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Mar 8, 2017 00:35
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In Oakland, the majority of Indivisible-involved people I know (so, anecdotal and small sample set) are all anti-Trump cultural Republicans/Libertarians who have come around to realize that not only do they not miss Obama but actually he was the President they've always wanted. It's made me very skeptical of the whole movement. Can someone speak to this concern?
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Mar 8, 2017 00:50
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Shbobdb posted:In Oakland, the majority of Indivisible-involved people I know (so, anecdotal and small sample set) are all anti-Trump cultural Republicans/Libertarians who have come around to realize that not only do they not miss Obama but actually he was the President they've always wanted. That specific case is weird, but I've had growing misgivings about Indivisible for a while. The nature of its "negative agenda" means that there is no clear replacement for the status quo other than "Democrats, I guess." This fits with the priorities/perspectives of people who seem most aligned with it (i.e., they are interested in how Democrats can win), although tbf most of the ones I have interacted with are not interested in supporting lame centrists.
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Mar 8, 2017 00:55
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Shbobdb posted:In Oakland, the majority of Indivisible-involved people I know (so, anecdotal and small sample set) are all anti-Trump cultural Republicans/Libertarians who have come around to realize that not only do they not miss Obama but actually he was the President they've always wanted. That's a good thing. They're taking the first step. They've realized the Republicans aren't on their team. Your job is to take them by the hand and nurture them until they become the Trotskyists they were born to be.
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Mar 8, 2017 00:56
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Ewww. Trots are bad. But I've gotten 2 of the 3 to admit that the Democratic Party is the party of sane capitalism whereas the Republican Party is not (one agreed it was a theocrat party, the other now thinks it's the party of crony capitalism -- I'll take both). I'll meet people where they are at and I applaud their activism. Personally, I'm going to keep breaking storefront windows because that's awesome. But boring people can do boring forms of activism. I support that.
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Mar 8, 2017 02:11
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Jack Gladney posted:Knock Every Door, if you're all about getting yelled at/yelling at old boomer shits right there on their front stoops. Does this actually work like, at all? Is there any modern science behind it, because nobody I know likes talking to people who come door to door and definitely not people who come door to door trying to change their political opinions. Shbobdb posted:the Democratic Party is the party of sane capitalism Man you sure do have an incredibly milquetoast vision for the future to be breakin' windows over friend
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Mar 8, 2017 04:41
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Effective Leftism: yelling at old boomer shits right there on their front stoops.
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Mar 8, 2017 09:24
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GunnerJ posted:That specific case is weird, but I've had growing misgivings about Indivisible for a while. The nature of its "negative agenda" means that there is no clear replacement for the status quo other than "Democrats, I guess." This fits with the priorities/perspectives of people who seem most aligned with it (i.e., they are interested in how Democrats can win), although tbf most of the ones I have interacted with are not interested in supporting lame centrists. That negative agenda is precisely why it is so effective. It is able to attract anyone who thinks maybe Trump bad without shutting people out by proposing solutions they may not be on board with. The point is to harness certain strategies the Tea Party employed to accomplish things those strategies are effective at doing. As we see in the fight over the Republican health care bill, it's fairly easy to cobble people together into a broad coalition to oppose a thing you don't like, but much harder to get them to agree on something new. That's the job of other groups than indivisible.
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Mar 8, 2017 13:22
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