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Lazyfire posted:I'm betting "no one ran up a mountain in a suit of armor and a machine gun." Is the assessment if the wild historical inaccuracies don't cause an brain hemorage on sight. That seems likely. Still, it wouldn't shock me if at some point in the war, some general was like "what if we tried strapping sheets of metal to the troops"
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Mar 8, 2017 02:19
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I think this chapter is another case of someone wildly embellishing on what they did during the war, especially since we are apparently recounting this experience to our daughter. I'm sure if there were any soldiers that were ordered to don a full suit of steel armour, pick up a vehicle mounted HMG and a 1,000 rounds of ammo then run up the side of a mountain the Austrians wouldn't have needed to waste any ammo shooting them. Their heart probably would've exploded before they made it 100 feet up. Apparently metal body armour did exist in this era (because 400 years of experience with firearms hadn't taught anyone it was a waste of time) but every design suffered from the same problem - it practically immobilized the person wearing it and turned them into an even bigger target. It wasn't until stronger synthetic fibers started to be developed in the late 40's that more practical armour started showing up.
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Mar 8, 2017 02:35
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The game takes creative liberty with sentry armour which was stiff as hell and annoyingly heavy. Reason why dudes stationary behind guns and engineers only wore it. Also, historically the main character is fighting not only Austrian Germans, but technically Hungarians, Czechs and even Italians too. The Austrian soldiers uniforms should look a bit more ratty and worn though as by that stage the Imperial state was running on fumes.
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Mar 8, 2017 03:32
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Psychotic Weasel posted:I think this chapter is another case of someone wildly embellishing on what they did during the war, especially since we are apparently recounting this experience to our daughter. The armor also wasn't really useful against anything more powerful than submachine guns, glancing or very long distance strikes from rifle bullets, or fragmentation. A solid hit from a rifle or machine gun would pass through the plates just fine.
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Mar 8, 2017 04:20
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I do like the Italian campaign maps and stuff the best with BF1, I'm really hoping the next free map they roll out is with the Austrians and Italians.
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Mar 8, 2017 04:22
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chitoryu12 posted:The armor also wasn't really useful against anything more powerful than submachine guns, glancing or very long distance strikes from rifle bullets, or fragmentation. A solid hit from a rifle or machine gun would pass through the plates just fine. Yeah you need chainmail for that kind of thing 
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Mar 8, 2017 05:37
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Pretty much all kinds of older armour was more flexible than the lobster sentry plated stuff because the latter is pretty much crudely moulded sheets of steel.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:49
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This is maybe not super-related except for being on the topic of "metal armour is pretty heavy you guys", but early on at high school we had a cool historian guy visit a few times, bringing either his huge collection of medieval arms and armour or his huge collection of World War II(?) equipment. (I was more interested in medieval history at the time so I could be wrong about which World War the latter collection was from.) He was a very shouty man and great at showing it all off and making it interesting. One time he fired a cannon in the school assembly hall, for example. We also got to handle lots of swords and whatnot. With the medieval collection, he put on an obstacle course relay race for us to do while wearing chain-mail and a helmet, and carrying a (wooden) sword and shield. I don't remember how heavy it all was exactly, but I was twelve or thirteen at the time and I'm pretty sure it weighed more than I did. It was certainly doable - my team actually came second, and only because the team that came first was made up entirely of kids that were a full year older than the rest of us - but I was certainly not going to be sprinting up any mountains in it.
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Mar 8, 2017 06:39
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So, re. armour, I take it plate armour came before chainmail? What obsoleted the latter, tho?
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Mar 8, 2017 08:52
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Samovar posted:So, re. armour, I take it plate armour came before chainmail? What obsoleted the latter, tho? better plate armor.
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Mar 8, 2017 08:57
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Wtf the Automatico isn't a piece of poo poo.
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Mar 8, 2017 11:48
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Samovar posted:So, re. armour, I take it plate armour came before chainmail? What obsoleted the latter, tho? Various kinds of armor sort of came out at different times in different places. Mail, scale, and plate armor all coexisted at various points in history. Plate started to supplement and then replace mail in the 14th century because it provided better protection from increasingly powerful weapons and became cheaper and easier to make as technology and metallurgy improved. One thing to keep in mind is that no armor truly became "obsolete" in the sense that it was replaced and thrown out. Mail, as you can see, stuck around into the 20th century to protect against shrapnel and low-caliber bullets. Everyone talks about plate armor being made obsolete by firearms, but certain soldiers continued to wear plate into the 19th century and soldiers in conflicts like the American Civil War bought commercial plate armor from sutlers before going into battle. It's just that armor didn't become common again until the late 20th century, when technology in ceramics and synthetic fibers like Kevlar allowed for lightweight armor that was useful against something bigger than small mortar fragments.
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Mar 8, 2017 14:18
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Gargamel Gibson posted:Wtf the Automatico isn't a piece of poo poo. It's terrible if you aren't used to just dumping your mag after killing and getting into switching to your sidearm in more than one one confrontations in the multiplayer. Also, aiming down the sights is utterly useless but hey you should really just be hip firing with most of the Assault class weaponry when you use it anyway. In multiplayer the MG Sentry is pretty vicious as long as you stick with friendlies (hope a medic pockets or cares about your low regen rates) and you have plenty of urban cover and concealment. You can get hosed up pretty ease by gas, explosives and that one scout with the K-Bullets.
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Mar 8, 2017 15:43
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Antistar01 posted:This is maybe not super-related except for being on the topic of "metal armour is pretty heavy you guys", but early on at high school we had a cool historian guy visit a few times, bringing either his huge collection of medieval arms and armour or his huge collection of World War II(?) equipment. (I was more interested in medieval history at the time so I could be wrong about which World War the latter collection was from.) Distributing weight across your body makes carrying stupid high weights possible. I was more impressed with the gun and the running up the mountain part.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:00
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Distribution of equipment is easy with a series of belts, pouches and harnesses. You are not going to be graceful and be sore as hell at the end of the day but a soldier even in the era this game can haul crazy amounts over large distances. Remember this is the same era where mechanised transportation is just for supply and at the end of the conflict moving your guns. Your average soldier is going to be moving from point a to b on his two feet and with hopefully at least two pairs of boots. It's one of the reasons some of the Support classes in the games has that extra pair of boots attached to their pack. Also, dudes at the turn of the 20th century were just slightly shorter leaner fed and more hardier bastards than we are. Running up a mountain in the frigging alps in sentry armor going all terminator with a machine gun is still video game fiction as gently caress though.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:24
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SeanBeansShako posted:Distribution of equipment is easy with a series of belts, pouches and harnesses. You are not going to be graceful and be sore as hell at the end of the day but a soldier even in the era this game can haul crazy amounts over large distances. Remember this is the same era where mechanised transportation is just for supply and at the end of the conflict moving your guns. I found a picture of the narrator: 
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Mar 8, 2017 17:34
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Things I Noticed If I can be serious for a minute. The Arditi were indeed an elite group of proto-special forces who served all over the Italian front, including in the mountains. However, there is something I'm quite worried about. After the war, a lot of Arditi became ardent fascists; Mussolini's blackshirts were specifically blackshirts because the original Arditi uniform had exactly that design of black shirt (conveniently this is 1918, after the uniform had been changed). Lots of former Arditi members became blackshirts, and when that cretin D'Annunzio launched his takeover of Fiume/Rijeka, he was heavily backed by former Arditi members. (There were a significant but small number of Arditi with opposing political leanings, and a few of them became core members of the anti-fascist Arditi del Popolo, but they were very much a small minority of the Arditi who served during the war.) All this "we were a proud unit" horseshit with the stirring music? That is extremely and uncomfortably close to being fascist propaganda, and I have a thin hope that lines like "We would have done anything for Italy..." is foreshadowing that the game will at least mention what they in fact ended up doing for Italy. Not holding my breath, though. OK, so back to "it's an FPS with WW1 trappings" concerns. We do have many excellent descriptions of what WW1 attempts at body armour looked like, although few photographs; the Italians were by far the most extensive experimenters as they looked for ways to win one of the eleven Battles of the Isonzo without resorting to ungentlemanly tactics like "having competent generalship". Many of the best descriptions come from the Austro-Hungarian Official History, and read something like this. quote:Some of the troops…appeared almost like foot soldiers of the Middle Ages. They wore large steel helmets that weighed 2.5 kg and heavy grey-green breast armour consisting of several interlaced plates; and more armour to protect their upper thighs. The reason that Austro-Hungarian soldiers were able to give such a good description, of course, is that there were Italians lying out in No Man's Land wearing the body armour, who had been immediately shot and killed as soon as they lumbered into sight and the defenders had stopped laughing at them. Body armour was as useful as a screen door on a submarine and it does annoy me a lot to see the game portraying them as anything other than completely and totally useless death sentences for the man who had to wear them; for me, that's on a completely different level than pretending everyone everywhere was routing around battlefields with sub-machine guns. Speaking of which, the idea that an MG/08 could be hip-fired is of course utterly laughable. That one falls into the category of "why change it?" They could have just as easily given him a Lewis gun or a Chauchat, or even some spurious Fiat-Revelli or Hotchkiss variant, and at least he'd have had something that the Italians actually would have used. The presence of this guy's initial SMG is totally accurate, mind you; the Italians were world leaders in a few very distinct fields, they quickly designed and built a series of generally excellent Caproni bomber aircraft, and then used it effectively in large numbers. Along those lines, the Beretta M1918 rifle was widely issued before the end of the war, particularly to the Arditi (and was far more useful than hot garbage, natch). So too is the dagger; Arditi often went over the top armed with daggers and poo poo-tons of grenades and no rifle or pistol, which were often just bulky wastes of time in cut-throat trench fighting. The Hellreigel is absolute garbage, mind; it was an immobile heavy machine-gun designed in 1915, and only a few prototypes ever made it to the front. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 19:59
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Trin Tragula posted:Speaking of which, the idea that an MG/08 could be hip-fired is of course utterly laughable. That one falls into the category of "why change it?" They could have just as easily given him a Lewis gun or a Chauchat, or even some spurious Fiat-Revelli or Hotchkiss variant, and at least he'd have had something that the Italians actually would have used. Pretty much this falls into the  it looks cool lets throw it in video game fashion over fuction. You may want to just quietly note this sort of stuff from now on the next chapter has more to do with the Mel Gibson movie than history or you may suffer a stroke because that one is going to set your nitpick alarm right off.
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Mar 8, 2017 20:15
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Trin Tragula posted:Things I Noticed
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Mar 8, 2017 20:47
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Trin Tragula posted:The Hellreigel is absolute garbage, mind; it was an immobile heavy machine-gun designed in 1915, and only a few prototypes ever made it to the front. Are you sure? Everything I see indicates that it was meant to at least be hip-fired on the move, similar to a modern SAW firing pistol cartridges.
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Mar 8, 2017 20:49
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Do you get the 'armor' in multiplayer, or is it only for this campaign? Also, where the heck was the trigger for an A.A. gun of that design? Both of his hands were on the wheels for traversing.
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Mar 8, 2017 20:55
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Samovar posted:Do you get the 'armor' in multiplayer, or is it only for this campaign? It's available in multiplayer as a randomly dropped battlefield pickup along with the MG 08/15. Its appearance is announced and marked on the map so everyone can scramble to get it first. You'd often see pedal triggers for guns where your hands were occupied.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:07
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argh, I confused it off the top of my head with another boondoggle machine-gun and didn't go check 
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Mar 8, 2017 21:23
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Said armor is only mildly useful and concentrated fire from two or more people will bring you down hard, your video game HP regen rate slows to a crawl. Also, anyone can crack you open like a tin of beans with a bayonet charge, melee attack or a one hit kill K-bullet. Oh and you cannot wear a gas mask. Which is hilarious because some of the Support classes in game wear the same sort of helmets and can.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:29
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Trin Tragula posted:argh, I confused it off the top of my head with another boondoggle machine-gun and didn't go check You are right, though: it was just a prototype that saw little to no actual service use.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:06
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The French tactic you mentioned was called "Walking Fire" by Americans, no clue what the French term is. The idea as I recall was gunners would fire from the hip as a sort of primitive suppressing fire during an infantry assault, like most things WWI it had the inkling of the right idea but got the execution wrong. And as the realistic aspect of the game keeps getting brought up, I'm going to bring up Verdun again. When BF1 was announced it was expected to be a pretty FPS game where poo poo blows the gently caress up with a WWI dressing by a lot of Verdun players and putting any more thought in to it was trying to figure out how Joel or Mike eat and breath.
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Mar 9, 2017 04:21
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 And thus ends the shortest campaign in the game. At least we got some use out of the Limpet charges in this video, more than in the Limpet Only attempt I made. Campaign videos after this are (hopefully) going to include guests, I haven't scheduled anyone yet so that probably needs to get done before I make promises. One of the weird things about this series (and the BF4 series and Shadow of Mordor now that I think about it) is the insane amount of content. If I just did the single player the series would be over before it started, but I love Battlefield multiplayer and wouldn't attempt to do this LP without a bunch of it; sorry if it isn't your thing, but it really is the main draw of the Battlefield franchise. I want to get through the classes and vehicles and then do the other Operations (and the ones from the first DLC coming in a couple weeks) before I end the LP, but I also don't want to more or less frontload the single player content and then come back and do all the multiplayer stuff, which is why we had the gap between the end of Friends in High Places and the start of these videos, and why there will be another gap over the next week (or more) before we start on The Runner. So here's another thing I wanted to try and do: pull together a squad (or more) from the thread and do a round of Operations. I'd like to do that on a Friday or Saturday night (everything is EST, by the way) if at all possible, but my schedule on the weekends is wacky at best. I know tomorrow night (Friday) I'll be free as well as later on in the night next Saturday. I guess go ahead and state your interest in the thread and we'll try to get things worked out. In all likelihood we'll be using Mumble to do voice chat for whatever happens because I can record everyone with the push of a button.
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Mar 10, 2017 03:00
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I and a few other BF1 goons might be interested, we were planning to do 7 Days To Die but we can put that on hold.
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Mar 10, 2017 03:03
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I might be up for Saturday night. I'll be at Victoria & Albert's tomorrow evening with my fiancee.
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Mar 10, 2017 03:05
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SeanBeansShako posted:I and a few other BF1 goons might be interested, we were planning to do 7 Days To Die but we can put that on hold. I wouldn't plan around it until a few people were interested. I can always try to rally the Games BF1 thread to the cause and I know at least a few people will be up for doing stupid poo poo there.
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Mar 10, 2017 03:12
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Well both days are good for us now, we'd be happy to dust off Mumble and join in on the fun if something happens. What will the Operation be?
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Mar 10, 2017 03:37
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SeanBeansShako posted:Well both days are good for us now, we'd be happy to dust off Mumble and join in on the fun if something happens. What will the Operation be? Probably Iron Walls. I wanted to do an Operation per campaign segment that corresponded to the same area, but that doesn't quite work and I always like making everyone hate me so I want to do the Op no one likes.
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Mar 10, 2017 03:38
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Iron Walls is great, if we get Italians we should be efficient enough to see the 2nd part.
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Mar 10, 2017 03:41
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SeanBeansShako posted:Iron Walls is great, if we get Italians we should be efficient enough to see the 2nd part. Alright, tentatively set for nine tomorrow, US east coast time.
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Mar 10, 2017 03:48
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My only point of comparison is Team Fortress 2, but the entire multiplayer experience seems pretty miserable. Spam, snipers, no communication, 30+ players per team, so a single player's contribution is always negligible...
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Mar 10, 2017 05:26
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Those extra Flamethrower guys in that mission were just as annoying and I swear next to the opening of the next chapter I died the most times due to how fragile you are without the armour. He should have kept it and discarded it bit by bit as the level progressed IMO.Xander77 posted:My only point of comparison is Team Fortress 2, but the entire multiplayer experience seems pretty miserable. Spam, snipers, no communication, 30+ players per team, so a single player's contribution is always negligible... TF2 is a much smaller and linear scale sort of game with more traditional focused classes, Battlefield has always been chaotic as hell. And unless you are one of those asses who just snipes in the most obvious place possible you are contributing to your team. You need to find and play with the right people or find a good server really and just keep plugging away. Get to know the maps, don't hesitate in mixing it up with classes or weapons to find the one role that you like. Crouch, strafe and sidearm switch. Once you know where the mindless pubbie waves rush take your time, go slow and flank them instead. If all else fails find another server. If your team is that bad it isn't worth the Battlepack to suffer through the whole match.
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Mar 10, 2017 05:33
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For somebody who had to convince himself he wasn't already dead, he obviously wasn't very convincing. "Fire, fire everywhere" indeed...
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Mar 10, 2017 06:16
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MadDogMike posted:For somebody who had to convince himself he wasn't already dead, he obviously wasn't very convincing. "Fire, fire everywhere" indeed... I dunno, the amount of times you get ambushed by the entire battalion of pissed off KuK dudes with flamethrowers in that one section proves it was hell otherwise bad voice acting or not. Also more general BF1 advice for first timers, you aren't getting shot down out the blue even if you crawl into cover you've been spotted by somebody (look at dudes and presss Q you can spot for them for your team for a few seconds btw) or you've stumbled close to an enemy flare which uncloaks a decent section of the battlefield for the enemey teams mini map. Extend your mini map, learn to love it and use it. Experiment with the flare gun as a Scout and get the idea when it is best to do stop aimlessly sprinting and when to actively seek cover.
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Mar 10, 2017 15:13
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Ah, now I know why this needed to be a WW1 game; it's just too hard to make a WW2 FPS in a way that lets the developers speak to the current zeitgeist by valourising fascists!
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Mar 10, 2017 21:29
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So is the Operations Event going to be the main goon Mumble?
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Mar 10, 2017 21:34
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