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UnfortunateSexFart posted:So all the bad countries are masculine, essentially. Noted good countries papua new Guinea, Somalia and Libya
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Mar 8, 2017 08:43
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Grand Fromage posted:Going to derail from a couple pages back, but can anyone explain the whole thing about being angry at Jews for killing Christ to me? Even if we accept the premise... wasn't Jesus' entire purpose to be martyred to redeem mankind? Him being killed so he can be resurrected is the point of the religion. If Jewish people had him killed, then didn't they play a key role in bringing about salvation? It doesn't make any sense. I guess that's religion.txt but I am really curious if there's an explanation why that became an attack on Jews. There's a Christianity thread in A/T or the science forum that could give you an actual answer, but two things come to mind: 1) in Matthew Pilate says that he symbolically washes his hands of the crime and lays the blame upon the assembled people (implicitly Jewish) for Jesus' execution - I guess that allows for the interpretation that while the Roman authority was part of God's machinery for fulfilling his purpose, the Pharisees and the Jewish crowd were actively Christ Killers out for blood (see also: Judas Iscariot). I don't know if there is actually any theology to support this idea though. 2) looking at it more broadly, I think the sheer complexity of trinitarian christology necessitates accepting some contradictions in the popular understanding: that is, Christ was both the Lamb of God who redeems us by his death; and also our earthly prophet who the Jews murdered out of their congenital bloodlust. The Muslims have it easier in that regard.
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Mar 8, 2017 09:10
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Yeah, there's also the idea that the "good" Jews all became Christian and Jews today are descended from the lousy Christ-killing Pharisees. The other sects of Judaism -- the priestly Sadducees and the quasi-monastic Essenes -- are thought to have died out, but the Pharisees' legacy does survive through the Rabbinical tradition. The Bible is quite harsh with the Pharisees, who likely viewed Jesus and his bros as heretics.(even though some of them probably were Pharisees, at least originally). Fast forward 2,000 years and the Apostles' sour grapes are still there on the page, but all the context is lost, so people get this idea that the book is saying all Jews are bad, when it's really just calling out a specific rival faction for political reasons. Also, it doesn't help that a lot of the people who wrote and compiled the New Testament were Greeks writing decades later and maybe didn't give much of a poo poo about respecting Jewish tradition.
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Mar 8, 2017 11:08
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Negrostrike posted:Most of Western Hemisphere: Not part of Western Civilization. they're not white, no. 'western civilization' is code for 'the white race'
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Mar 8, 2017 11:18
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Pakled posted:What syphilis was called before it was called syphilis Goddamn Poles. Edit: yeah, Scotland wins this one. Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 11:36
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Persians naming it after themselves is pretty dope. "Yeah we're all whores. Wanna fight about it?"
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Mar 8, 2017 11:40
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Duckbag posted:The Bible is quite harsh with the Pharisees, who likely viewed Jesus and his bros as heretics.(even though some of them probably were Pharisees, at least originally). Phlegmish posted:Baptists and especially Mormons would have been burned at the stake by Catholics and magisterial Protestants alike in the sixteenth century.
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Mar 8, 2017 11:41
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From the DnD picture thread:
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Mar 8, 2017 12:18
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my girlfriend is Legos posted:From the DnD picture thread: That seems like a perfectly fine map of Eporue to me.
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Mar 8, 2017 12:50
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Pakled posted:If Papua New Guinea is Western, then there's no reason Latin America should be anything other than Western. Latin America is really a mestizo culture. A mix of the original indígena culture and the old spanish culture that don't exist anymore except in america. Labels have the problem of being binary so are not a good way to describe the world.
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Mar 8, 2017 15:31
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Phlegmish posted:So, just Lutheran and Catholic on the map you posted. Maybe Methodism if you count it as part of a general Reformed tradition (even though they are Arminian), but I doubt they got a 500K kill count.
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Mar 8, 2017 16:35
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Blut posted:South America is always the funniest part of that for me. They're quite obviously Western, but they just happen to be slightly poor. But an Albanian has more in common with a Tajik than with a Serbian.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:06
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Phlegmish posted:Baptists and especially Mormons would have been burned at the stake by Catholics and magisterial Protestants alike in the sixteenth century. And your objection is? Mormons are basically just kookier scientologists with less emphasis on money laundering.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:06
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It is a statement, not a value judgment. Though if I'm being completely honest, I do object to the general principle of burning people for heresy.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:16
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That's a little too progressive for me.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:16
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Phlegmish posted:It is a statement, not a value judgment. Though if I'm being completely honest, I do object to the general principle of burning people for heresy. But if we had to choose a heresy to burn people for, would you object to it being the Mormons over say the Waldensians or the Quakers.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:19
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Premature optimization is the root of all evil. Don't burn people that believe in hell, they expect a eternity in the flames, will not be impressed by your temporary fires.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:57
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Baron Corbyn posted:But if we had to choose a heresy to burn people for, would you object to it being the Mormons over say the Waldensians or the Quakers. We just have to invent good enough space travel so the Mormons can go away into space somewhere, like all science fiction ever made says they will.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:58
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Guavanaut posted:Mormons were driven out of a number of states amidst violence and ended up forming their own state, which they tried to retain as independent. That along with major doctrinal differences should count it at at least separate from Protestant and Catholic, if not from Old World Christianity altogether. The "driven out of a number of states" thing is circular reasoning, though. They were driven out because people thought they weren't Christians. You can't logically turn around and say that constitutes proof that they actually weren't Christians, unless you're willing to accept the subjective third-party opinion of the people persecuting them as objective truth. Personally I think that religion is entirely subjective, and thus that the only valid metric (for us as third parties) is how people see themselves. If Mormons say they're Christian, then they are Christian. If you use any other metric, or attempt to draw bright lines based on doctrinal differences, I feel like that's how we end up with religious persecution in the first place.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:16
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If we're using the standards that determine state-backed Churches, then Mormons aren't Christian. Also Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Seveth-Day Adventists, Quakers, Bogomilists, Priscillians, Messalians, and certainly Americanists. Clearly only the Northern Conservative Baptists of the Great Lakes Region Council of 1879 Agreement are real Christians.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:30
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:We just have to invent good enough space travel so the Mormons can go away into space somewhere, like all science fiction ever made says they will. Well when they die don't they all go to planet Kolob or something? Seems like you'd save a lot of rocket fuel if you just went ahead and burned them at the stake here, then let their spirits do the space travel.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:40
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Schizotek posted:Persians naming it after themselves is pretty dope. FTFY fishmech posted:Clearly only the Northern Conservative Baptists of the Great Lakes Region Council of 1879 Agreement are real Christians. Well I'm glad someone had the balls to say what we're all thinking!
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Mar 8, 2017 18:49
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I think Mormons are an interesting edge case because they use a second holy book (that reads like bad Bible fan fiction, IMO) and believe many things that directly contradict The Bible. Jesus being the last prophet* is sort of important, you guys. I tend to think of them as an off-shoot of Christianity that's no longer entirely Christian, like Islam or Baha'i, but yall are free to disagree with me. *Except John of Patmos maybe.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:31
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Duckbag posted:an off-shoot of Christianity that's no longer entirely Christian, like Islam 
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Mar 8, 2017 19:34
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That's how I generally describe the Orthodox church, it makes russians upset.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:42
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Baronjutter posted:That's how I generally describe the Orthodox church, it makes russians upset. well of course, the orthodox church is merely an emanation of the totalitarian Slavic consciousness
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Mar 8, 2017 19:45
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Baronjutter posted:That's how I generally describe the Orthodox church, it makes russians upset.
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Mar 8, 2017 20:08
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fishmech posted:Clearly only the Northern Conservative Baptists of the Great Lakes Region Council of 1879 Agreement are real Christians. Death to Northern Conservative Baptists of the Great Lakes Region Council of 1879! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912 is the light
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Mar 8, 2017 20:15
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No, seriously. The Qu'ran devotes a significant amount of time to the prophet Isa (Jesus) and Maryam (Mary) is the only named woman in the whole book. Christian practice profoundly influenced Arab thought during the late Roman and early Byzantine era and most of the core stories of the Old and New Testaments are preserved in the Qur'an with only modest changes (Abraham sacrificing a different son, etc.). About a third of the Arabian peninsula was Christian and many of the lands conquered by Muhammad and his heirs such as Egypt and Syria were Byzantine Christian. To them, it is likely that they didn't see Islam as being separate from Christianity, but rather an evolution of it. They kept the same God and the same prophets, but added a new prophet who served as something of a revivalist arguing that their faith had been corrupted and they worshiped false idols and had to return to direct submission to God. It's actually quite similar to Mormonism and, in some ways, the Reformation. The influence also cuts both ways, incidentally, many scholars believe that the Iconoclastic Controversy, which was one of the causes of the Great Schism between Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics, was a direct response to what many Christians at the time felt was a legitimate critique made by Islam, chiefly that the Church had become too wrapped up in the worship of saints and icons and was committing Idolatry (a charge Protestants revived later).There was a lot of conversation back and forth between mainstream Christianity and Islam at first, but the Church had pretty much settled on "they're just heretics" by the time of the Crusades. For it's part, Islam considers Christians and Jews to be "people of the book" and worthy of respect as fellow worshipers of God, even if they're doing it wrong.
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Mar 8, 2017 20:20
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Pakled posted:What syphilis was called before it was called syphilis Portuguese rather called it "avariose", "venéreo", "lues" and "Napolitan disease".
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Mar 8, 2017 20:25
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Falukorv posted:Portuguese rather called it "avariose", "venéreo", "lues" and "Napolitan disease". Yeah, most of those countries probably used several different names at different times, in different regions, and among different segments of the population. Doctors and scholars probably use Latin/Greek names. The first big outbreak came almost immediately after Columbus' voyages (1494/5) and was probably contracted by sexing the natives. Some people insist it was in Europe already but no one had ever written about it before, but that's dubious. If they did have Syphilis, it would have been uncommon or a much milder strain because the 15th/16th century outbreaks were a big loving deal at the time. It entered the medical literature during a French invasion of Naples, where Spanish troops were also present. Both sides blamed each other for spreading it, hence the names "French disease," "Neapolitan/Italian disease," and "Spanish disease." From there, it seems that the pattern was people blaming it on whoever they (supposedly) contracted it from, which was usually a neighbor who was closer to the epicenter of the outbreak, so the Germans called it French disease, the Poles called it German disease, and the Russians called it Polish disease. The Ottomons just called it "Frankish disease" because, lol all Christians are the same, right? Canton was China's main port to the Europe, so it was probably the first place to get an outbreak, and the Japanese associated it with the Portuguese and Chinese sailors who spread it, hence those names. The Persian Fire one might come from identifying it with Anthrax based on similar symptoms, idk. I have no idea where "grandgore" comes from. Scots are weird
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Mar 8, 2017 20:55
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icantfindaname posted:they're not white, no. 'western civilization' is code for 'the white race'   Based on that logic, no part of the Americas belongs to the West.  But what I really have to say is that Huntington is a dumbass.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:07
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Duckbag posted:Canton was China's main port to the Europe, so it was probably the first place to get an outbreak, and the Japanese associated it with the Portuguese and Chinese sailors who spread it, hence those names. The Persian Fire one might come from identifying it with Anthrax based on similar symptoms, idk. I have no idea where "grandgore" comes from. Scots are weird Grand is Old French for great, so literally "the great gore".
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Mar 8, 2017 21:07
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Duckbag posted:No, seriously. The Qu'ran devotes a significant amount of time to the prophet Isa (Jesus) and Maryam (Mary) is the only named woman in the whole book. it's a heretical mutation of judaism, not christianity. there's not that much stuff from the NT in the quran or islamic tradition, except for jesus being mentioned as prophet, the cult of mary, and maybe one other minor story. only the arab tribes immediately bordering roman syria were meaningfully christian, the ones further south in the peninsula and yemen had much less roman influence icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 21:08
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Jesus was the Saoshyant and the East and West would be unified in their worship of Ahura Mazda were it not for the cursed agents of Ahriman, the Roman Emperors and Muhammed
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Mar 8, 2017 21:31
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Mar 9, 2017 03:31
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Koramei posted:lots and lots of indian "immigrants" FTFY. Reading about them is very reminiscent of the Indian "laborers" in Dubai.
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Mar 9, 2017 04:34
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Australia:
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Mar 9, 2017 04:39
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Pakled posted:What syphilis was called before it was called syphilis Uhh it's still not called syphilis here. Premise wrong, 0/10 map.
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Mar 9, 2017 14:43
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I can never remember which one is kuppa and which one tippuri
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Mar 9, 2017 14:47
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