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Poll: Who Should Be Leader of HM Most Loyal Opposition? This poll is closed. |
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| Jeremy Corbyn |
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95 | 18.63% |
| Dennis Skinner |
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53 | 10.39% |
| Angus Robertson |
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20 | 3.92% |
| Tim Farron |
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9 | 1.76% |
| Paul Ukips |
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7 | 1.37% |
| Robot Lenin |
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105 | 20.59% |
| Tony Blair |
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28 | 5.49% |
| Pissflaps |
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193 | 37.84% |
| Total: | 510 votes | ||
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Fangz posted:Middle aged white guys in pinstripe suits. Now I don't normally condone violence, but...
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Mar 8, 2017 22:52
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jabby posted:You have to question some of the assumptions you start out with. Or maybe the employment and immigration statistics don't show that at all, because of the growth of economy associated with there simply being more people. That is besides anecdotes. But hey, it's the brutal truth who can argue. And I'd just like to say here for the record that I don't earn obscene amounts of money like Pochoclo, just like the vast majority of EU immigrants. More close to the median. E: and I do have a fairly decent and very in-demand degree from the UK, along with work experience E2: And in fact I would be very surprised if someone in Pochoclo's position couldn't get a tier 2 visa anyhow, that seems exactly like the sort of thing it's for. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 22:53
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Pochoclo posted:Now I don't normally condone violence, but... They're bigger than me. Other bits: A lot of praise for the SNP. Apparently one of them was involved in investigating electoral reform? "So in the end it came down to the party line. We recommended they consider proportional representation." "But your recommendations weren't actually proportional!" "I know, haha." "So do we actually have any policies to discuss?" "Well our only policy is no second referendum...."
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Mar 8, 2017 22:59
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Private Speech posted:Or maybe the employment and immigration statistics don't show that at all, because of the growth of economy associated with there simply being more people. That is besides anecdotes. But hey, it's the brutal truth who can argue. Nobody apart from economists and politicians actually gives a poo poo about the economy. People care about their part of the economy, how secure it is and how much money they're earning by being a part of it. While the growth figures are absolutely dependent on immigration (I believe it was analysis of Osbournes last budget which clearly illustrated the reduced growth from reduced immigration), this growth is so specific in economic sector and geographical region that it is equally the brutal truth that a larger economy doesn't improve many (most?) peoples lives even a little. Even factoring the increased income of the immigrant worker from whatever they could earn at home there is still the brain drain from their nation of birth and the economic impediment that those who remain suffer as a consequence. namesake fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 23:00
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Fangz posted:They're bigger than me. You should tweet Kuenssberg about your hot sources close to the tory party.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:01
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Should just record the audio on your phone.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:07
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namesake posted:Nobody apart from economists actually gives a poo poo about the economy. People care about their part of the economy, how secure it is and how much money they're earning by being a part of it. While the growth figures are absolutely dependent on immigration (I believe it was analysis of Osbournes last budget which clearly illustrated the reduced growth from reduced immigration), this growth is so specific in economic sector and geographical region that it is equally the brutal truth that a larger economy doesn't improve many (most?) peoples lives even a little. That's all a bit relative, but there's a whole lot of research into effects of immigration on wages and unemployment across all sections of the society, and the negative effects on low-paid workers are marginal at best. I made a big effort post about this in one of the Europol threads back when I was at uni, supported with about a dozen or more research articles. The most startling conclusion was that, providing the current effects on economy continue linearly, which is of course a huge and symplifying assumption, if the whole population of Africa got absorbed into the EU then wages of low-paid workers would only drop by 10%. It really is not as simple as it seems. E: look I'm slightly dyslectic/dysgraphic and had a few rum n' cokes tonight Private Speech fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 23:07
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I am on my way home now. That was quite surreal.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:10
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jBrereton posted:oh my loving god jeremy nobody cares about this stuff, please reclaim the mantle of being the party of the NHS from these cunts 'Nobody cares' isn't the same as 'isn't important'. 'Vote for us or we literally starve you to death' becoming a legit tactic is game over for British democracy.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:10
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Private Speech posted:Or maybe the employment and immigration statistics don't show that at all, because of the growth of economy associated with there simply being more people. That is besides anecdotes. But hey, it's the brutal truth who can argue. Obviously it's debatable, but employment and immigration statistics are only going to tell you part of the story. Like Paxman was saying in their role as Devil's advocate, it's hard to measure a change in demographic of certain entry-level jobs and the knock on effects that might be having on everything from local workers to the economy of the place the immigrant worker moved away from. I'm not trying to dispute that immigration is a huge economic driver for this country and that the way things exist now we absolutely would crash and burn without it, I'm just saying that in the long term we may need to wean ourselves off an economy that relies so heavily on a steady stream of migrant workers.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:13
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Private Speech posted:That's all a bit relative, but there's a whole lot of research into effects of immigration on wages and unemployment across all sections of the society, and the negative effects on low-paid workers are marginal at best. I made a big effort post about this in one of the Europol threads back when I was at uni, supported with about a dozen or more research articles. The most startling conclusion was that, providing the current effects on economy continue linearly, which is of course a huge and symplifying assumption, if the whole population of Africa got absorbed into the EU then wages of low-paid workers would only drop by 10%. I'm not arguing that migrant labour reduces wages (I agree the evidence suggests it doesn't particularly do so) but arguing that the positive relationship between growth and immigration is therefore good for everyone is also not true because this growth is regional and sector specific, so people see increased national immigration and personal/local economic stagnation while being told the economy is growing. Enter the far right which suggests the two are related and you have UKIP saying these immigrants must be 'stealing' all the growth.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:13
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namesake posted:I'm not arguing that migrant labour reduces wages (I agree the evidence suggests it doesn't particularly do so) but arguing that the positive relationship between growth and immigration is therefore good for everyone is also not true because this growth is regional and sector specific, so people see increased national immigration and personal/local economic stagnation. Enter the far right which suggests the two are related and you have UKIP. Oh yeah most definitely, if you are in the bottom third of income your economic wellbeing is at best unaffected or at worst very slightly worse because of immigration. It's just not anywhere near as bad as the anecdotes would claim. But if you combine that with anxiety about/difficulty if interacting with foreigners, it's easy to see how you might not be thrilled.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:17
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jBrereton posted:Yeah and making no traction because they're diluting the message with "oh no the tories spent too much on hotels 2 years ago" or "we're against austerity except in this specific circumstance in Surrey where we're going to make a big deal of the government trying to find money to spend on local government with links to its MPs which at no point happened in the Blair/Brown years". What the hell, focusing on this isn't supporting austerity at all - the whole point is that austerity is causing huge pressures on local government and services, and the Tories are -yet again- giving their own constituencies special treatment so the burden falls on everyone else. The need for austerity is at the core of the Tory narrative on everything, so of course it needs highlighting that they're secretly exempting themselves
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Mar 8, 2017 23:34
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Labour should be focusing on the Tory broken manifesto promise not some boring poo poo about Surrey.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:39
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Agreed - my mum said the f word about that
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Mar 8, 2017 23:43
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Look Jeremy even the papers would be on your side https://twitter.com/MediaGuido/status/839605141120692225 Just say something for god's sake.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:44
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Sometimes it makes sense for the opposition to get out of the way for a few hours and just let the media get on with it. At the moment the press are clobbering the Government.I'm watching Newsnight focusing on the row now.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:44
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Paxman posted:Sometimes it makes sense for the opposition to get out of the way for a few hours and just let the media get on with it. At the moment the press are clobbering the Government.I'm watching Newsnight focusing on the row now. e: you zapped all your cool newspaper pics! Seaside Loafer fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 23:50
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i wonder how Big Tone and Gordon would have responded to the budget?
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Mar 8, 2017 23:55
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Pissflaps posted:Labour should be focusing on the Tory broken manifesto promise not some boring poo poo about Surrey.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:00
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Why do no Tory ministers ever have any haircut except the side parting? Apart from the bald ones of course.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:05
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Seaside Loafer posted:Who is Kiera and who is she in love with? Yes I ninja-edited, sorry. Saw that Pissflaps posted similar pics just above.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:07
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Comrade Cheggorsky posted:i wonder how Big Tone and Gordon would have responded to the budget? Positively
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Mar 9, 2017 00:08
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It isn't talked about much but in return for being passed over in favour of Alec Douglas-Home for party leadership in '63, Rab Butler got to set the official tory haircut, Kim-style.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:08
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Comrade Cheggorsky posted:i wonder how Big Tone and Gordon would have responded to the budget?
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Mar 9, 2017 00:09
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jBrereton posted:At All. I mean, if you're interested: quote:Dear OwlFancier,
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Mar 9, 2017 00:21
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Paxman posted:Sometimes it makes sense for the opposition to get out of the way for a few hours and just let the media get on with it. At the moment the press are clobbering the Government.I'm watching Newsnight focusing on the row now. Agreed. Immediately turning this into Labour vs. the Tories rather than the Tories vs. Everyone is unlikely to be helpful. Outrage is more effective when it seems to arise spontaneously rather than being spat out by the opposition.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:24
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jBrereton posted:At All. ? https://twitter.com/uklabour/status/839541859357769728
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Mar 9, 2017 00:26
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Pissflaps posted:Labour should be focusing on the Tory broken manifesto promise not some boring poo poo about Surrey. Why do you think it's boring that the government's austerity programme has taken an even more explicit turn towards 'kill off anyone who doesn't vote for us'?
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Mar 9, 2017 00:31
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OwlFancier posted:I mean, if you're interested: loving hell this is just awful.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:33
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'It's complacent and unfair!!' -the vote winning slogan of 2017.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:34
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jabby posted:Agreed. Immediately turning this into Labour vs. the Tories rather than the Tories vs. Everyone is unlikely to be helpful. Outrage is more effective when it seems to arise spontaneously rather than being spat out by the opposition. No. Yesterday the opposition was the House of Lords. Today the opposition is the hated media. At some point the Labour Party needs to do something to stop being irrelevant.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:37
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I dunno I rather enjoyed the serious socialist telling the bunch of braying posh cunts what cunts they were there. e: they should have just used the from bbc, longer and more rowdy Seaside Loafer fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 00:38
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Pissflaps posted:No. Yesterday the opposition was the House of Lords. Today the opposition is the hated media. At some point the Labour Party needs to do something to stop being irrelevant. Bizarre. The only difference between how the Commons and the Lords voted on Brexit is the number of seats each party holds. We both (presumably) hope Labour is going to capitalise on this, the only difference is I'm not sure what you want them to do RIGHT NOW that the media isn't already doing for them.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:45
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Pissflaps posted:'It's complacent and unfair!!' -the vote winning slogan of 2017.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:45
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jabby posted:Bizarre. The only difference between how the Commons and the Lords voted on Brexit is the number of seats each party holds.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:46
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Watch and share: this budget is unfair isn't a bad slogan for the meme generation
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Mar 9, 2017 00:48
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You can always do better than "it's unfair".
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Mar 9, 2017 00:49
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Pissflaps posted:Look Jeremy even the papers would be on your side He did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tvPjLizS-E How very odd that the papers aren't running with it.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:49
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jabby posted:Bizarre. The only difference between how the Commons and the Lords voted on Brexit is the number of seats each party holds. This is nuts. Labour ran a three line whip on the unamended bill. quote:We both (presumably) hope Labour is going to capitalise on this, the only difference is I'm not sure what you want them to do RIGHT NOW that the media isn't already doing for them. The media won't do Corbyn's job for him.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:50
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