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I remain 100% confident the enemy will dig a trench connecting Saucisson and the canal if we move our men there. As for leaving a brigade in Stethoscope: if the other side is ALSO sending cav scouts over that river, I'd like to see them coming by Turn 8 or I can't order my Brigade who arrive on Turn 10 what to do about it.
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Mar 9, 2017 04:39
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| # ? May 17, 2024 08:31 |
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LLSix posted:Crazycryodude et all This post sneaked by me while I was posting my last one. At the end of the day, of course, it's because Cryo says so. I also disagree that "everyone agrees that Stethoscope has no value in and of itself," although people have said that it obviously doesn't merit a permanent garrison or anything. Personally, to me it seems painfully obvious that if we don't take Steth, we can't advance west of Steth, not without significant difficulty and delay, not to mention it's almost certainly important for increasing our deployment zone, and likely our telephone lines for communications and orders. Unless you think we can teleport to Effyaders, we need to advance bit by bit and deny assets such as Steth and the sunken road at CC to the enemy. As for Ford G, personally it's my hope that we can cut around some of their defences that way, and take a route maybe they don't expect us to.
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Mar 9, 2017 04:49
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Unassigned brigade commanders, if you want something to do I can give you some staff officer stuff while you wait for an opening.
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Mar 9, 2017 04:49
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Forcing a crossing of the river is our main short-term priority, because we (obviously) need to get across at some point to reach Effyaders, and doing it as fast as possible is important to give the enemy as little time as possible to prepare a defense along that natural barrier. Focusing on the south in particular is for a few reasons: 1. As you correctly surmised, Ford G is the hardest to defend/least likely to be caught in a crossfire and/or ambushed. With limited forces we need to preserve every company, and expose ourselves to the minimum of potential enemy fire. 2. While we haven't run the numbers, some quick back-of-the-envelope math holds that G is one of the closer fords relative to our starting position. While we might be able to reach some of the central fords earlier, the possibility of getting ambushed from both flanks in the center takes them off the table for now. 3. Ford G has the benefit of securing the southern end of the Chemin Creux, definitely allowing for telephone contact that way and possibly expanding our deployment zone. It also has various benefits depending on where the enemy starts. If they enter from the northwest quadrant, G is the farthest away and thus gives them the least time to set up a defense at. If they start in the southwest quadrant, taking G allows us to threaten their deployment zone and possibly even shrink it. Taking and holding Stethoscope IS important in that it's a vital logistical hub. Again, we don't know the rules for how our deployment zone expands and/or contracts, but holding a major crossroads certainly can't hurt our position. It's also vital because it controls the only telephone lines going east. Any phone calls we want to make back to the east edge no matter where we are HAS to route through Stethoscope. Related to that point, it controls the only roads heading back to the east. If we want to bring up reinforcements on anything resembling a sane timetable we need to be able to march along the roads - which is impossible if the enemy holds Steth. On top of all that, Steth can effectively deny the enemy use of the central fords and keep an eye on the northern stretch of the Chemin Creux, while providing a nice covered staging point for any of our own pushes on those area. TL;DR Crossroads are always important, and Steth looks like it was purposefully designed to be the axis on which the entire eastern half of the map turns. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 05:02
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Crazycryodude posted:1. As you correctly surmised, Ford G is the hardest to defend/least likely to be caught in a crossfire and/or ambushed. W Just a note here, keep in mind Jaguars pointed out Fords E-G are in machinegun range from the Bois de Blob. But at the same time, if they put troops in the forests, we're not safe whichever ford we take, so we might as well pick one and hope for the best. Edit: Related: Can horse artillery fire at any enemies uncovered in BdB from the other side of the stream? Someone check the rules and crunch the numbers to see if the range works. Flesnolk fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 05:06
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Horse arty have a range of 18" They need 2" of seperation from the units in front to fire. However, they also will need someone to spot the units in the cover of the woods. IIRC, units in cover can be seen from four inches away, but if they fire from cover, then they can be seen from the full 24". If the entente has units that remain stationary in the woods, they lay an ambush, which pretty much gives them a free shot at us as we can't fire on them till the next turn. Nasty, and another reason to get there as fast as possible. So if the Horse arty set up at the right range, they can fire at anyone who shoots at us, ensuring that at the very least some units will be destroyed or suppressed, as long as spotting units stay alive.. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 05:27
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I'm confused about the rules for changing formation and such. If the cav doesn't change formation until it reaches the town, wouldn't that add a turn of getting shot up by any infantry that are there?
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Mar 9, 2017 05:30
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Yes. You don't want to let the enemy catch you in march formation under any circumstances.
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Mar 9, 2017 05:33
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I think that's what conditional orders are for. So the brigade commander would set something like "if seeing enemy/if fired upon, attack" or what have you.
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Mar 9, 2017 05:33
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You need to include in your orders where you shake out into combat formation. So getting into and out of march formation is not something that you do lightly. There's a standard standing order you can include to respond to unexpected attacks. (That we used wrong last game with disasterous results.) If you want to be fancy, you can write your own conditionals instead, but that is open to Trin's interpretation.
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Mar 9, 2017 05:36
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so with regard to measuring the distances in these images: i've got this image with the on-road distances (measured 960 pixels between stops = 24", right?)  you can see that i started working on the off-road part, but i think i need to be finding a more optimal crossing point (where the roads are a multiple of 12"/480 px apart) rather than just following the arrow or else part of another turn gets wasted i spent hours finding a free image editor that kept track of how long a multi-segmented line was
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Mar 9, 2017 05:48
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Going back on to a road doesn't waste the remainder of the turn's movement or anything, I don't quite get why we need to find the sweetspot where it's a multiple of 12 inches between roads.
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Mar 9, 2017 05:50
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 My immediate efforts. Tevery you're still more than welcome to make one if you want, as long as it represents my fervent belief in artillery as the Queen of Battle. As mentioned I'll try to get to some of the requested number crunching so that I can be of use before the big guns show up.
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Mar 9, 2017 05:57
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Crazycryodude posted:Going back on to a road doesn't waste the remainder of the turn's movement or anything, I don't quite get why we need to find the sweetspot where it's a multiple of 12 inches between roads. because i misunderstood, i guess - so there's no one-turn time off for getting back on a road? i did just make this screenshot of the spot where the two roads are exactly 480 pixels or 12" apart, so i might as well   that crossing is more than 3 turns from the southern entrance on the right side of the map, but within 2 turns of road-marching distance to the southernmost ford, for whatever that might be worth. nothing, i suppose
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Mar 9, 2017 06:02
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There is no "lose a turn for getting on/off a road". Sorry we had you waste a bunch of time on that...
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Mar 9, 2017 06:03
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Quick reminder, we can't change any orders until turn 8, so we'll want to make sure changes in formation etc. are actually in the initial orders. For example, I'd ideally like our brigades (if we use the convergence idea) to shake out into battle order on turn 4, then the northerners continue marching into Steth.
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Mar 9, 2017 06:04
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Yeah, make sure your brigades are in Battle Order at least 12" away from where you think the enemy might be. Otherwise you'll get mown down by machine guns for the 30 minutes it takes your men to find where they put their rifles.
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Mar 9, 2017 06:08
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Crazycryodude posted:There is no "lose a turn for getting on/off a road". Sorry we had you waste a bunch of time on that... it's all in the service of me figuring out how the game works, i don't mind the time the rule's still not entirely clear to me, though. does trin just make a vague estimate of what fraction of the turn a marching brigade spent on a road when he decides how far they get in a turn?
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Mar 9, 2017 06:10
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I don't think it's ever actually been cleared up. I've been assuming it's "you used X% of your move on the road so you get the remaining fraction at your new speed" but maybe it's a secret. Trin, are you allowed to tell us?
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Mar 9, 2017 06:19
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Amendment, after some discussion in roll20 Cryo wanted the suggested orders for the cavalry division changed to this: Clearing that road is important, and will give us a quicker route to Ford G. Of course, this all depends on what Saros chooses to do with his division, but I feel it's a solid plan. I'd suggest changing to battle order at the turn 4 destinations in case we run into trouble. The move south should be a charge, not a march. If there's no one there, fine, if there is we'll cross the T and massacre them. Flesnolk fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 06:59
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Players, please post your time zone next to your name on the first page of the Google spreadsheet so that we know your general hours of availability.
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Mar 9, 2017 07:16
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disjoe posted:Can I get one? Pretty please? Of Max Hoffmann? Okay, but for obvious reasons staffers are at the very end of the priority totem pole. sniper4625 posted:
I used a variety of fonts, but I recommend keeping to a 800x268 size as a standard. This way everyone has the same banner size, which is pleasing to the eye. EDIT: and you were cunning enough to notice before I even told you! Tevery Best fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 07:24
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Tevery Best posted:Okay, but for obvious reasons staffers are at the very end of the priority totem pole. Agreed, which is why I made sure to copy your dimensions! I'll play around with mine some more tomorrow.
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Mar 9, 2017 07:29
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Tevery Best posted:Hey guys, I brought presents! What does the German on mine say?
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Mar 9, 2017 07:38
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"Generalleutnant Flesnolk, 4th Royal Saxon Division." Fun fact: your division is differently numbered in the German army and the Saxon army, dohohoho
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Mar 9, 2017 07:42
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Companies within the same cover have a firing range on 4" upon one another. This means if our cav comes round the back of a forest, it can charge across it and slice up an ambush force lurking on the opposite edge with almost no risk. No particular targets right now, but this doctrine could be useful later. 
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Mar 9, 2017 07:52
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Tevery Best posted:Okay, but for obvious reasons staffers are at the very end of the priority totem pole. Of course! Thanks, even if you don't get around to it.
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Mar 9, 2017 08:04
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LLSix posted:Crazycryodude et all E: Where did all these posts come from With the currently present brigades, it would be impossible to push very far so capturing Sth. in the early stages is not to the detriment of the campaign. The town has an insta trench running through it, which makes its control an important anchoring point for our future operations. It is also the converging point of all significant roads, so we do not lose anz appreciable time going through there. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 08:12
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Not to mention the simple fact any advance west has to cross that zone early on.
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Mar 9, 2017 08:36
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If you're a new player, scrub up on the basic rules, especially if you are on the field straight away. Here are trin's tutorial posts from the previous game: Movement, cover and spotting Firing and combat (some stuff about engineers, but some of the rules on engineers have changed recently) Demonstration of firing funny little rule about machine guns known as the Billy bonus How to write orders Pre-turn checklist Good example orders New rules for game 2: Brigades, Fatigue, New terrain, indirect fire, engineer work takes longer, new hill spotting More new rules: Trenches and terrain In summary: -The movement phase comes first. There is a roll for initiative and whichever side wins it goes first. -Firing is next. It is split into mini-phases based on the type of unit firing. The side with the initiative fires first each phase. Note that stationary units fire before moving ones, this is what makes defending so powerful. quote:Artillery - Spotting happens all the time, it is not a separate phase. I believe this includes retreats and charge pursuits in the firing phase as well. Machine guns, horse arty and trench mortars will generally stop if an enemy is seen within range so that they can fire during the firing phase. -Towns are very hard to see into. -If your unit is moving, it is always in attack stance. If it is halted, it is always in defense stance. Units in attacking stance can attack with either charges or rifle fire. A unit firing it's rifles at the enemy can only move 4" per turn, all other units move at their full speed until they reach their goal. Defending units use rifle fire. Defending units cannot move. Wanna adjust some chits 4"? Tough, you should have planned it better. Now your brigade has to shift to an attack footing, which means you have to go through the chain of command. Speaking of... - Command and control is really bad in WWI, there is a chance that your unit will not be able to change orders straight away. Imagine a messenger trying to get from HQ to your unit, if the HQ is miles away, or the unit is moving miles from a road, he's going to have trouble delivering his message. Be aware of which units the division commander is giving priority to as well, his HQ can only send a certain number of orders per turn. -For good orders you should:
Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 08:37
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here's a map of the distances by road between board edges, intersections, bridges, and fords. also the lengths of bridges that's not to say that all movements will follow these numbers exactly, since it's up to trin in the end (and also rounding), but maybe it'll be useful for planning idk
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Mar 9, 2017 09:22
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Re. engineers: In the scenario briefing, I only see a mention of two eng. cos. on turn 12. Is that all we can count on for now?
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Mar 9, 2017 09:35
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Are we sure that's right? We're discussing in roll20 that it might make this timetable incorrect. Edit: Also, how much do the bridges slow us down? We have to cross them single file. Flesnolk fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 09:36
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there are something like 96" of road (including bridge) between the edge of the map and steth, so 4 turns is basically the shortest mathematically possible time - you can decide what that's worth for yourself. i think '4 and a bit' i's in line with what people were eyeballing before, and i think they were assuming the 24" a turn of movement that would make the math work but im the person who made both of the maps so i guess i should let someone else check the work if they wanna
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Mar 9, 2017 09:48
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It's worth double-checking just for the sake of having the right idea. Trin, I wanted to check if I had this understood properly re: bridges: quote:If you get fired on, you cross individually in single file; otherwise you can just stroll over as though they were roads. Does this mean our brigades are not slowed down going over the bridges outside La Dand in marching order? Because if the single file thing does slow them down then we have to completely recalculate who gets where when.
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Mar 9, 2017 09:54
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Looks good to me. We should only be calculating distances with a large fudge factor anyway, far more important is the route and instructions that get given to our brigades. The moment we contact the enemy, timetables will go out the window anyway.
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Mar 9, 2017 09:54
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I've changed my mind and decided cavalry should have top priority, followed by requests. Infantry will get theirs when we are closer to them arriving on the field.   
Tevery Best fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 10:34
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 I'm gonna ride that St Croissant veteran reputation right into Imperial German Army middle-management  edit yess check out that legal-eagle pickelhaube
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Mar 9, 2017 10:40
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sniper4625 posted:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Gun
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Mar 9, 2017 11:13
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| # ? May 17, 2024 08:31 |
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Flesnolk posted:Oh, speaking of traps! Staff officers, get us some number crunching on visual and weapon ranges from all the forests, especially Taillis Douche and Bois de Blob. Machine guns, rifles, artillery, we need to know how safe the crossings are if they have men waiting for us. Make my banner something about MSpaint, I intend to moonlight as meme officer!
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Mar 9, 2017 13:27
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