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Canadian Surf Club posted:in catching up with DLC, I noticed people here recommending Conclave but the Steam reviews make it sound like a huge headache to play with. Snatch Duster posted:I'm in the same situation. Last I heard from goons was that conclave was poo poo. You probably saw me calling it poo poo because I hate it. But the mixed reviews are exactly that, mixed. Essentially there are 2 major mechanics that people love or hate and those are the Education System and the Council System. Some people like the education system changes because apparently they're harder to game the system with? I don't know on that, I seem to be able to make wunderkids in the new system just fine. Maybe slightly less frequently than the older system. My major problem with the education changes is that they're VERY boring to me. For me it's literally these steps: Set child to either thrift or religious. Forget about child for 5 years. Set child to focus that best matches their stats. Forget about child for 5 more years. The interesting childhood events seem to be occurring far less frequently now but that might be me being jaded. The other system is the council system which is basically this: Do you know what you're doing? If so, congrats! You will have little to no internal trouble. If not, too bad! Sucks to be you! Please enjoy your never-ending faction revolts. But you should compare what I say to other people. Lots of people on this forum like one or the other systems for reason's I can't say why because I don't understand. However, ignore anyone who claims that "The complaints are about the free patch stuff!"... Also ignore anyone who says they don't like Sunset Invasion. They're obviously insane. Edit: To be fair, I should mention some of the good things from Conclave. The changes to the laws are pretty good. Having the tax laws be separated is fairly well recieved by most players. Favors are neat. They're maybe too easily abused by players but they add in a little more depth to the diplomacy. Creating your own Mercenary Bands. Not really useful but certainly a neat option. TheCIASentMe fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 17:18
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Do not use conclave if you are new to the game. You will not have fun.
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Mar 9, 2017 17:25
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I don't like the new education system, as someone who has never been able to game either of them. I quite like the council stuff though just because it is a big improvement if you are playing as a vassal IMO to be able to trade in favours and such.
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Mar 9, 2017 17:26
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Toadsniff posted:Do not use conclave if you are new to the game. You will not have fun. Actually it should be the opposite. For someone who is just starting out with tutorial island, Conclave makes it a lot easier. It makes jumping in as your first game with Charlemagne a lot harder, but the normal starting position for many people is easy with Conclave.
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Mar 9, 2017 17:29
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That's true, if you play as a vassal I expect Conclave adds tons to the game. I think one of the most annoying things about Conclave is that favours last for ages and can't be overriden by other favours, and you can't make people get rid of favours or anything, so you just spend a couple of years not doing anything when someone uses their favours because 2-3 members of your council become obstructionist dicks for months.
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Mar 9, 2017 17:38
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So considering that literally every time I've used it it's given the target either Rabies or the Plague I feel like Tainted Touch might be slightly too strong.
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Mar 9, 2017 17:50
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binge crotching posted:Actually it should be the opposite. For someone who is just starting out with tutorial island, Conclave makes it a lot easier. It makes jumping in as your first game with Charlemagne a lot harder, but the normal starting position for many people is easy with Conclave. I sorta agree since conclave is here to stay that new players need to learn the mechanics early, however I think it makes the learning curve a bit worse in the end. In newbie island, as a count or Duke you want your council to be filled with the smartest best people you have. Which makes sense. So the players learn to do just that. But then once they graduate to King or emperor levels they have to unlearn that and instead put people in that are more easily manipulated or they need to remove power from. They also won't know yet not to run a completely powerless council. But yes, the council does add more to being a vassal which is good, but not really THAT much since you don't actually have a decision on the votes. It automatically forms your vote based off your relations with your liege.
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Mar 9, 2017 17:53
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TheCIASentMe posted:But yes, the council does add more to being a vassal which is good, but not really THAT much since you don't actually have a decision on the votes. It automatically forms your vote based off your relations with your liege. Yeah, as an independent ruler you really get the feeling of herding cats, but as a Councillor yourself you might barely notice it.
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Mar 9, 2017 17:57
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TheCIASentMe posted:In newbie island, as a count or Duke you want your council to be filled with the smartest best people you have. Which makes sense. So the players learn to do just that. But then once they graduate to King or emperor levels they have to unlearn that and instead put people in that are more easily manipulated or they need to remove power from. They also won't know yet not to run a completely powerless council. Do you mean the law or a council that always agrees with you? Because the first is useful for the demense size if you have a low number of vassals, and the second doesn't seem to have any drawback at all. quote:But yes, the council does add more to being a vassal which is good, but not really THAT much since you don't actually have a decision on the votes. It automatically forms your vote based off your relations with your liege. Aw, man, seriously? You should be able to actually vote.
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Mar 9, 2017 18:16
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cock hero flux posted:So considering that literally every time I've used it it's given the target either Rabies or the Plague I feel like Tainted Touch might be slightly too strong. I gave a guy cancer once.
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Mar 9, 2017 18:17
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FAIR WARNING: Don't ask to be ranked up in your society and then leave your society. You will be stuck unable to even try to rank up forevermore. Leaving the society does not clear that flag.
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Mar 9, 2017 18:23
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Honky Dong Country posted:I gave a guy cancer once. Well that's nothing a jar of bees and maybe the loss of an eye won't fix. I gave someone pneumonia with the curse though after he got upset that I'd banged his wife.
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Mar 9, 2017 18:23
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spectralent posted:Aw, man, seriously? You should be able to actually vote. I'm pretty sure you get to set a council stance which determines where your votes go.
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Mar 9, 2017 18:26
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Midnight Voyager posted:FAIR WARNING: Don't ask to be ranked up in your society and then leave your society. You will be stuck unable to even try to rank up forevermore. Leaving the society does not clear that flag. That sucks. If you have a bugged save and it isn't Ironman you can clear the flag via console, if that helps you at all.
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Mar 9, 2017 18:28
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cock hero flux posted:I'm pretty sure you get to set a council stance which determines where your votes go. You do. My normal move if I decide to join the council is to move to malcontent, because it makes my liege almost automatically give me a favor to vote for him.
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Mar 9, 2017 18:47
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spectralent posted:Do you mean the law or a council that always agrees with you? Because the first is useful for the demense size if you have a low number of vassals, and the second doesn't seem to have any drawback at all. I meant the law but both really apply. Demense size is useful but keeping your council members out of factions is far better. And while a council of yes men seems like a good idea, that generally means either you've not put your most powerful vassals on the council or you're in a very good situation where your most powerful vassals are yes men. cock hero flux posted:I'm pretty sure you get to set a council stance which determines where your votes go. Right, sorry I don't play as much anymore after conclave came out so I was confusing this with the mechanics for NPCs.
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Mar 9, 2017 18:57
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TheCIASentMe posted:I meant the law but both really apply. Demense size is useful but keeping your council members out of factions is far better. And while a council of yes men seems like a good idea, that generally means either you've not put your most powerful vassals on the council or you're in a very good situation where your most powerful vassals are yes men. The law is a case of It Depends, I think. I have 12 holdings and they're all pretty great, and I still have enough vassal slots for most of my subordinates. It'd take a really massive coalition to have an army capable of fighting me, or a really bad war to take me down to a point rebellion looks possible. Likewise if you had a tiny realm I doubt it'd matter. And everyone loves me anyway because seriously attractive seductress empresses are almost OP for +80 opinion before you consider anything else.
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Mar 9, 2017 19:05
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spectralent posted:I feel like if your personal realm is big enough you still don't care; to my knowledge, Conclave didn't make factions any worse. It just meant people who were powerful were more likely to join factions, which they do anyway if you can't keep them content. The big "Wants to be on the Council" modifier makes it a little harder to cruise along with 100 opinion from everyone, and the favors system means that a single vassal can cause quite a bit of trouble if they're dedicated enough to being obnoxious. The thing is that before, factions were incredibly dull. There were three ways to prevent vassals from joining factions or get them out of factions that they joined: 1. Get their opinion score over a certain number 2. Stick your spymaster on their capital and wait for an event to fire 3.  The first one you don't really have that much control over, especially considering the high numbers you needed to block certain factions, and the other two are just betting your spymaster's intrigue scores are high enough that the event will fire before the faction gets big enough to be a threat. The council gives you another option for taking people out of factions in exchange for potentially worse stats and council actions, and makes the council a more interesting decision than "just appoint the guy with the highest stat". Thanks to favors, that one rear end in a top hat who's just determined to screw with you at all costs can cause a lot of trouble even if all your other vassals like you.
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Mar 9, 2017 19:07
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cock hero flux posted:So considering that literally every time I've used it it's given the target either Rabies or the Plague I feel like Tainted Touch might be slightly too strong. Most of the time I use it they only get the flu or food poisoning. I think you just got good rolls.
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Mar 9, 2017 19:11
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Conclave council is one of the best features added in the entire lifespan because it has so many choices to make depending on your current state. Like you can churn through members to get yes men and stats as needed while keeping just enough powerful guys sedated or if you're in a really tenuous situation you keep all the powerful guys sedated and live with mediocre stats and a logjammed legislative function. Or you take up the vassal gardening mantle to make sure your super dukes are the brightest around for the stats. Or you work toward a sick retinue stack or a Roman bureaucracy which often lets you run absolutism because you can trim powerful vassals to where they can't get the numbers to revolt. I can also see why someone might call that busy work or a difficulty jump for new players though.
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Mar 9, 2017 19:12
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Main Paineframe posted:The big "Wants to be on the Council" modifier makes it a little harder to cruise along with 100 opinion from everyone, and the favors system means that a single vassal can cause quite a bit of trouble if they're dedicated enough to being obnoxious. Well, having good opinions doesn't matter for factions at least. Every time I had someone with a high opinion I assumed they'd disband, and they never did. 100 opinion seems to be the only guarantee. And honestly, I don't see how that's better. If you were annoyed by faction busywork you're going to be annoyed by council busywork too. An rear end in a top hat with favours is probably even more annoying than just executing him.
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Mar 9, 2017 19:14
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zedprime posted:I can also see why someone might call that busy work or a difficulty jump for new players though. Yeah, basically this. I don't really mind the council but if you didn't like dealing with factions before it's not going to suddenly change your life.
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Mar 9, 2017 19:16
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spectralent posted:Well, having good opinions doesn't matter for factions at least. Every time I had someone with a high opinion I assumed they'd disband, and they never did. 100 opinion seems to be the only guarantee. This is why MnM is so cool. That rear end in a top hat with favors can be kidnapped and sacrificed. You can also sacrifice all those annoying "has title claimant" people too. I've had good success making sure all of my powerful vassals are children by sacrificing them as soon as they become an adult.
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Mar 9, 2017 19:21
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spectralent posted:That's true, if you play as a vassal I expect Conclave adds tons to the game. Just assassinate the rear end in a top hat they owe a favor to if they're doing that, it's really not that hard. If you have a big enough realm that this actually gets annoying, you'll be able to find people to gently caress the unruly councilor's poo poo up pretty easily, and a replacement who isn't as huge of an rear end in a top hat just as easily. WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 19:23
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Azuth0667 posted:This is why MnM is so cool. That rear end in a top hat with favors can be kidnapped and sacrificed. You can also sacrifice all those annoying "has title claimant" people too. I've had good success making sure all of my powerful vassals are children by sacrificing them as soon as they become an adult. I really need to get MnM. LORD OF BOOTY posted:Just assassinate the rear end in a top hat they owe a favor to if they're doing that, it's really not that hard. If you have a big enough realm that this actually gets annoying, you'll be able to find people to gently caress the unruly councilor's poo poo up pretty easily, and a replacement who isn't as huge of an rear end in a top hat just as easily. It can take forever depending on your plot power. And honestly, "it's not hard" is hardly an argument in favour. I haven't, in general, found CK2 to be an incredibly hard game. The problem is whether or not a thing is boring, and honestly, if you get particularly obnoxious councils or factions it can slip to that point instead (I am reminded of when I had something like five independence revolts in a row with a new ruler, even though most of them had lovely LI levies and mine were full of HI and cav, but everyone kept thinking it was worth a shot and somehow they wouldn't get executed like the last fifteen people who had a go). Again, I don't generally mind it, but I can see how people would.
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Mar 9, 2017 19:35
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spectralent posted:I really need to get MnM. That is one of the reasons I like MnM, it gives me a bunch of things to do while waiting for: a plot to fire, a truce to finish, that idiot that's sitting at 99% warscore to finally figure out they aren't going to win, waiting for favors to wear off, or handling people that already have favors. What I want to see happen is to see all the other societies get a similar power buff to be on the level of the evil societies and to see more societies. Has anyone figured out what to do with all these ingredients yet?
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Mar 9, 2017 19:50
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It's kind of a tradeoff, honestly. The more stuff there is to do between waits, the less likely I am to actually finish a game  It is one of the biggest perks of being a viking, though. If I don't have anything to do, time to sack rome again! 
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Mar 9, 2017 19:53
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Azuth0667 posted:Has anyone figured out what to do with all these ingredients yet? Kaza42 posted:I've been looking over the data files, and it seems they do literally nothing. There's a few events that add them, and some sort of expiration event on some ingredients, but I have not found a single decision, event or modifier that checks for them or consumes them.
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Mar 9, 2017 20:11
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I gave a little girl food poisoning with Tainted Touch so its not like a one hit kill or anything. YA'LL WANT SOME BORDER GORE COURSE YA DO  Puttering along as a two-province Count in Francia at the Charlemagne start. Karl does his usual stuff, inherits Middle Francia, murders Saxons, marries a Lombard. Critically, he creates a bunch of king-level titles and has exactly three sons as well. Around 805 or so, a poo poo-ton of dukes declare civil war for Elective Monarchy. Problematic on its own, but then a bunch of other dukes declare an independence revolt (some Cathars also declare a revolt and get immediately curb-stomped by a passing stack). I'm honestly not certain what happened with the Elective Monarchy war cause it abruptly ended but apparently the inheritance laws didn't change. I know this because shortly after, Karl dies fighting some of the Independence rebels. Three king-level titles split between three underage sons and Francia falls all to pieces. Currently, the Independence revolt is still going and stands a solid chance at winning. Burgundy is being invaded by Bohemia while its capital has been conquered by a peasant revolt. Some Slavs got in on the action by invading Anhalt in Middle Francia and as I was typing this, some more peasants showed up in Middle Francia and decided they'd had enough of this feudalism thing. Dukedoms are scattered to hell and back and central Europe has basically become an impromptu Shattered World.
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Mar 9, 2017 21:10
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spectralent posted:Well, having good opinions doesn't matter for factions at least. Every time I had someone with a high opinion I assumed they'd disband, and they never did. 100 opinion seems to be the only guarantee. Good opinions do matter for factions, particularly for the likelihood that someone will join a faction, but they have to be really good to actually prevent people from joining factions or get people out of factions that they've already joined. For example, you have to get someone above 75 opinion to get them to leave a Succession-related faction, and you have to get them above 80 opinion to get them to leave an Independence faction. That means that even if your vassals have a generally positive opinion of you, it can still be difficult to handle factions that way because you need them to absolutely love you in order to get them out of the faction. My problem with old factions isn't busywork, it's that there's practically nothing you can do about them if you don't have a large enough troop advantage. The opinion thresholds are high enough that unless you start handing out territory, they're often out of reach even if you already had a decent relationship with your vassals. That just leaves scheming and assassinations, and both are random events, meaning that all you can do is turn them on and pray that the event fires before the faction issues its demand. Much like dealing with adventurers, all you can really do is save up your money and your troops while hoping the assassination event happens before the war triggers. Conclave changes that, though. It gives you a lot more control over how powerful and dangerous factions can become, in exchange for having to surrender some autonomy to the council and put up with potentially having less effective council actions.
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Mar 9, 2017 21:15
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On the whole ingredients thing:Arthur-PDX posted:Yo, From here.
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Mar 9, 2017 21:22
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paradox quality guarantee
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Mar 9, 2017 21:33
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Shouldn't the county of Santiago start with some prestigious saintly bones since it was the end of the biggest medieval Catholic pilgrimage?
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Mar 9, 2017 21:40
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Hey Paradox if you could categorize the diplomacy decisions by type that would swell.
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Mar 9, 2017 22:42
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I just convinced the Abbasid boy-Caliph that I, the secret Jew Herald of the God's Faithful cult and Sultan of Abyssinia and Nubia, would make a fine teacher for him.
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Mar 9, 2017 22:58
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how long is the ESRB label on this now because they're going to have to add "Drug Use" after this one because of teh Assassins
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Mar 9, 2017 22:58
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Honky Dong Country posted:I just convinced the Abbasid boy-Caliph that I, the secret Jew Herald of the God's Faithful cult and Sultan of Abyssinia and Nubia, would make a fine teacher for him. I noticed that the King of Bavaria in my current game is titled something like The Hand of Satan. I can't be sure, but something tells me he isn't on the up-and-up. I also get really suspicious of anyone who looks way too young and isn't Immortal
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Mar 9, 2017 23:00
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Its a relatively small change but could we get some order to how horribly you execute someone. Like sometimes its expedient to kill someone and you behead them, fine but other times its some horrifying message about burying them alive in a wall or what have you and it just seems way out of proportion to how I felt about that collection of entries on a spreadsheet I know. So maybe gate the more horror intense deaths behind a bigger piety loss wall and maybe give some prestige back or something.
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Mar 9, 2017 23:02
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Oh son of a bitch. The rest of the court conspired to have me removed as regent and then took the kid away from me. I didn't even get a chance to read him the Torah. 
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Mar 9, 2017 23:09
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Is there a reliable way to steal something out of someone else's treasury? Some rear end in a top hat in tribal Ireland somehow got Jesus's shirt from the Pope, and I kind of want it. Like, I'm thinking about putting my plans in central Europe on the back-burner to create Ireland, vassalize him, and mow through his line of succession until I inherit all his stuff, but I don't know if that last part works like that.
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Mar 9, 2017 23:17
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