|
call to action posted:The best part of all of this is that we have to defend Obamacare as something else than a complete handout to insurance companies, lie about how premiums TOTALLY NEVER WENT UP FOR ANYONE EVER, etc. just because the alternative is worse Obamacare is not a complete handout to insurance companies: the alternative is worse because its dramatically worse than Obamacare, not because it's worse than the pre-Obamacare status quo (it's not, the pre-Obamacare status quo was just that loving terrible). Obamacare made life better for tens of millions of people, and that's what people are realizing when the prospect of it getting repealed is in front of them.
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 20:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 21:35 |
|
|
Craptacular! posted:I think they really don't know what the hell they're in for when they bring job lock back to the economy and entrepreneurship tanks (all these Uber drivers etc over the past five years happened because health care was less connected to being a full time employee). But you can't go back to someone working at a big huge national hardware store, working around hammers and nails and saw blades all day, and not giving them insurance. They can, and what's more, they can make them beg for it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 20:26
|
|
|
BarbarianElephant posted:They can, and what's more, they can make them beg for it. They can talk about it, but what's making Republicans real nervous (and is part of the reason for the GET THIS DONE BEFORE ANYONE CAN OBJECT) is that a lot of those people are their constituents, and will put 2 and 2 together when they actually lose their health insurance instead of just those other people losing theirs.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 20:27
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:They can talk about it, but what's making Republicans real nervous (and is part of the reason for the GET THIS DONE BEFORE ANYONE CAN OBJECT) is that a lot of those people are their constituents, and will put 2 and 2 together when they actually lose their health insurance instead of just those other people losing theirs. I'll be impressed if a significant number understands this because they mostly seem so dumb they cheer the Republicans on while they gently caress their own families over. They seem to have a little bit of a learning difficulty in terms of putting two and two together. A few of them might produce some satisfying Trumpregrets but the larger part of them will blame immigrants/Democrats/cruel fate.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 20:39
|
|
|
There is almost no situation that a trumpeteer losing their healthcare won't view it as anything other than some kind of underhanded liberalist coup that succeeded against the righteous and noble trumpco. You fail to realize so many of them are so far down the rabbit hole that they've always been at war with Eurasia.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 20:44
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:They can talk about it, but what's making Republicans real nervous (and is part of the reason for the GET THIS DONE BEFORE ANYONE CAN OBJECT) is that a lot of those people are their constituents, and will put 2 and 2 together when they actually lose their health insurance instead of just those other people losing theirs. It took people almost six months to realize that actually, Trump was gonna gently caress them over, so I have no faith in them realizing this.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 20:45
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:It took people almost six months to realize that actually, Trump was gonna gently caress them over, so I have no faith in them realizing this. To be fair, they were hearing from all sides, "Take him seriously, not literally," "Campaigning is different from governing," "He'll pivot and become more presidential," etc. I mean, people generally don't want to accept that they made a bad decision, or that someone they support has done something wrong, or that they've been lied to. Trump voters made a bad decision, the person they supported has done bad things and is doing more, and they've been lied to non-stop, but that's very hard for anyone to accept - and even people who voted for anyone or anything else were generally hoping (at least a little bit) that Trump wouldn't be as bad as they feared. They've only had since January 20th - not quite two months - to realize that, actually, they made a bad decision and it's going to hurt them personally.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
Brookings' assessment is 15m uninsured by 2026. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2017/03/09/expect-the-cbo-to-estimate-large-coverage-losses-from-the-gop-health-care-plan/ 
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 21:06
|
|
|
DandyLion posted:There is almost no situation that a trumpeteer losing their healthcare won't view it as anything other than some kind of underhanded liberalist coup that succeeded against the righteous and noble trumpco. You fail to realize so many of them are so far down the rabbit hole that they've always been at war with Eurasia. Crossposting from UKMT
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 21:14
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:They do. What Paul really wants to say, but knows he can't, is that the rich should not subsidize the poor. But he's a good enough politician to not say it out loud, but because he was thinking it at the time he produced that. I wouldn't be surprised if he's genuinely mixing them up in his head due to a strong belief in a just world. To him, sickness and poverty are different leaves on the same branch of irresponsibility and flawed character. Meanwhile, he's a healthy male in his 40s who runs marathons and does p90x. Obviously overall health is up to the individual and it's unfair for people like him to subsidize laggards who can't get it together and have their hands out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 21:21
|
|
|
Rhesus Pieces posted:I wouldn't be surprised if he's genuinely mixing them up in his head due to a strong belief in a just world. To him, sickness and poverty are different leaves on the same branch of irresponsibility and flawed character. Meanwhile, he's a healthy male in his 40s who runs marathons and does p90x. Obviously overall health is up to the individual and it's unfair for people like him to subsidize laggards who can't get it together and have their hands out. Right. My thyroid clearly needs to pull itself up by its bootstraps, even if that requires it to grow feet and buy boots first.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 21:26
|
|
|
zonohedron posted:Right. My thyroid clearly needs to pull itself up by its bootstraps, even if that requires it to grow feet and buy boots first. Don't forget 'figure out some exotic new form of propulsion'.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 21:27
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:The GOP plan has always been nothing. GOP members have proposed plans, but there has never been any sort of "GOP Plan" until now. Why conservatives are furious is that they were never going to sign onto those assorted plans: they understood them to be a talking point that would never be implemented. The Republicans had fairly consistently supported refundable tax credits determined by means testing, with a middle finger and a painful death for anyone worthless enough to not have income taxes to file.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 21:46
|
|
|
Craptacular! posted:The Republicans had fairly consistently supported refundable tax credits determined by means testing, with a middle finger and a painful death for anyone worthless enough to not have income taxes to file. Refundable is what makes it still apply to people who don't owe income tax. And again, they never actually supported passing that, they supported it as their fig leaf alternative when their actual plan was nothing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 21:48
|
|
|
I thought I remember some conservative op-ed recently advising that the GOP should just be honest and admit that they really don't believe everyone deserves to be covered. It basically let the cat out of the bag but for the life of me I can't remember what publication it was in or who wrote it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 21:54
|
|
|
The Republican plan for healthcare reform has been to cut taxes. If they have to cut spending to afford the tax cuts, all the better.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 21:58
|
|
|
Thats why I favor calling this garbage bill a tax plan rather than a healthcare bill.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:00
|
|
|
Rhesus Pieces posted:I thought I remember some conservative op-ed recently advising that the GOP should just be honest and admit that they really don't believe everyone deserves to be covered. Don't worry, they're already ahead of you. https://twitter.com/DavidCornDC/status/839939310686175232
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:06
|
|
|
Lol at Paul Ryan getting hardballed from the left on Fox News of all places.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:16
|
|
|
Office Pig posted:Don't worry, they're already ahead of you. WONKY
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:20
|
|
|
Voyager I posted:Lol at Paul Ryan getting hardballed from the left on Fox News of all places. By Tucker Goddamn Carlson of all people.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:24
|
|
|
I can't decide if wonk boy genius Paul Ryan or maverick John McCain is the more annoying media creation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:25
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/NARAL/status/839940098552696832 "gently caress you, bitch." - Republican Party
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:55
|
|
|
Office Pig posted:https://twitter.com/NARAL/status/839940098552696832 Now that International Women's Day is over....
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 23:05
|
|
|
Rhesus Pieces posted:I thought I remember some conservative op-ed recently advising that the GOP should just be honest and admit that they really don't believe everyone deserves to be covered. Well it depends how much they've deluded themselves regarding the free market. It's a just world fallacy but with unfettered capitalism taking the place of God. If the market doesn't want the poor to die it will provide them with affordable healthcare.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 23:06
|
|
|
Office Pig posted:https://twitter.com/NARAL/status/839940098552696832 There was a state bill in Texas that was trying to force insurance companies to sell two versions of each plan on the exchange: one that covered abortions and one that didn't. The one that did cover abortions had to explicitly include an additional cost for these services provided, but we were not allowed to factor in that by having the abortion, the policyholder was preventing future maternity claims which were much more costly because that would make the plans that covered abortions actually cheaper than the ones that didn't. These people are just monsters.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 23:12
|
|
|
size1one posted:Now that International Women's Day is over.... Look they stood up for women's rights to tanning beds what more do you want??
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 23:25
|
|
|
DaveWoo posted:By Tucker Goddamn Carlson of all people. It's loving amazing. Great questions, couldn't even pull the wool over his eyes. Confounding Factor fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Mar 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 23:34
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:Obamacare is not a complete handout to insurance companies: the alternative is worse because its dramatically worse than Obamacare, not because it's worse than the pre-Obamacare status quo (it's not, the pre-Obamacare status quo was just that loving terrible). Yeah, like I said, I don't disagree that it's better than the pre-Obama status quo. But denying the problems with it (spiraling premiums in some states, still ends up costing you $10k to go to the hospital on a bronze plan, etc.) is delusional.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 23:44
|
|
|
Ted Cruz, noted student of Senate parliamentary rules, would like to play Calvinball with Mike Pence.The Hill posted:Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), emerging as a key player in negotiations to repeal and replace ObamaCare, says Vice President Pence should exert his power over the Senate to significantly expand the scope of the House healthcare reform bill.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2017 00:25
|
|
|
Goddamn I want this to fail in the Senate so bad. Watching Obamacare survive its challenges has been like watching a baby sea turtle born on the beach make its way to the surf dodging birds of prey and other predators. As lovely and centrist in origin as Obamacare is I do not want to see it die by getting pissed on by a toddler taking a break building a Rand castle. Thanks for listening to my retarded rant and analogy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2017 06:03
|
|
|
The Poor Just Don't Want Healthcarequote:A first-term congressman who spent three decades as a physician — and is now part of a group of Republican doctors who have a major role in replacing Obamacare — is facing backlash after saying that poor people “just don’t want health care and aren’t going to take care of themselves.” -It's a little difficult to shop at Trader Joe's or Costco for all your food when you work 2-3 jobs making jack poo poo an hour. -Same goes for routine exercise. -Have fun getting medications through Medicaid because Medicaid claims are still processed through private insurance entities that all require "Prior Auths" for a ton of common medications that are flat out covered on private plans. If you have an overloaded doctor with a massive backlog, it can take a month or more to get a prior auth approved. -People on Medicaid do not have unlimited access. It's extremely difficult to find a primary care provider and virtually impossible to find a specialist that takes Medicaid nowadays because reimbursement is horrible. Physicians lose money for every Medicaid patient they take on. -Poorly managed/undiagnosed health issues can prevent someone from even being able to exercise or lose weight efficiently in spite of a proper diet. Again, try to find a Nutritionist/Dietitian that takes Medicaid. -The vast majority of people on the streets have chronic psych issues which prevents them from self-recognizing problems and actively seeking treatment. Again, try to find an outpatient Psychologist that takes Medicaid. There is such a thing as "Street Medicine" which has been gaining some traction to reach out to these people, but that requires funding from a once in a blue moon multi-millionare that gives a poo poo about his fellow meat bags. Avalanche fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Mar 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2017 06:33
|
|
|
Mokelumne Trekka posted:Goddamn I want this to fail in the Senate so bad. Watching Obamacare survive its challenges has been like watching a baby sea turtle born on the beach make its way to the surf dodging birds of prey and other predators. As lovely and centrist in origin as Obamacare is I do not want to see it die by getting pissed on by a toddler taking a break building a Rand castle. Obamacare is the iguana. The past 48 hours or so happen from 1:20-1:40 haveblue fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Mar 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2017 07:35
|
|
|
So apparently there's going to be some negotiations on this because the Freedom Caucus is super pissed. Has anyone heard or read of the additional changes so this could pass the house?
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2017 15:34
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:So apparently there's going to be some negotiations on this because the Freedom Caucus is super pissed. Has anyone heard or read of the additional changes so this could pass the house? The change would be strike out all the healthcare law and leave it simply 'repeal the ACA', since that's what they have been pushing for. They say they want it free from other legislation to start with a clean slate, but that really justmeans there won't be a replacement
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2017 15:40
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:So apparently there's going to be some negotiations on this because the Freedom Caucus is super pissed. Has anyone heard or read of the additional changes so this could pass the house? The Freedom Caucus wants: - A bill to completely repeal Obamacare to pass first. They say they aren't opposed to certain provisions, like the ban on rescission, but that they need to repeal Obamacare entirely to fulfill their campaign promise and the replacement bill should start from a point where Obamacare doesn't exist and not be build around preserving parts of Obamacare by reducing the damage to certain people. (All taxes, fees, and mandates that they kept in to help fund the replacement plan, but make it not look so bad in the budget are the big sticking points) - Get rid of the Medicaid expansion immediately or within one year instead of three and do not guarantee to keep subsidizing the states that expanded it. Those extra years cost more money. - Eliminate the Essential Health Benefits rules (the mandatory floors on what insurance has to cover and mandates on birth control, preventative medicine, etc) right away instead of in 2020 to allow extremely bare-bones catastrophic plans to be sold, so people with low health care requirements can buy extremely cheap plans that just cover them if they get hit by a bus or get cancer. - Tax credits to be awarded at the end of a tax year to give the IRS time to weed out any illegal immigrants who may be using a purchased social security number (this will also make it so less people sign up for subsidized insurance because people that can't afford to not get their rebate until the end of the year just won't get it) None of their demands are super likely to make it into the final bill. They are doing exactly what they have done before: Take a moderate win for the Republicans and tank it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2017 15:48
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Freedom Caucus wants: "No guys, we said repeal Obamacare, which is what we personally define as a subset of the Affordable Care Act that taxes us. We don't care what happens to the actual healthcare market as long as we get taxed less."
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2017 15:58
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Freedom Caucus wants: Any of these three happening would result in people dying and many hospitals across the country closing. It would also primarily hurt rural areas and areas with bad heroin epidemics bigly..
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2017 16:03
|
|
|
Lote posted:Any of these three happening would result in people dying and many hospitals across the country closing. It would also primarily hurt rural areas and areas with bad heroin epidemics bigly.. Yes, which is why they're not in the bill because there's enough Republicans who have to worry about getting voted out if they yank all their constituents healthcare to kill those. Actually, I think they would do #3 but it can't be done in reconciliation. I think full Obamacare repeal can't either, which is why they're willing to accept the 2015 bill (which guts Obamacare enough that the health care market ceases to function, and then you hope Democrats help you repeal the rest and "replace" because otherwise look at all those people dying do you want to be responsible for those people dying what, you say its my fault those people are dying, ludicrious i am trying to pass this bill right now to save them from dying and you wont help me).
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2017 16:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 21:35 |
|
|
quote:Ryan On Millions Losing Care: 'Never Going To Win A Coverage Beauty Contest'
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2017 16:40
|
|