|
Spunky Psycho Ho posted:Ok great, I think everyone would agree nice clean factories and strong manufacturing is ideal. Lets aim for that otherwise its impossible to enforce clean factories
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 00:46 |
|
|
Germany also protects their workers (so I've read) so well that Wal Marts business model proved untenable in a country where labor is free to organize
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:16
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:That wasn't a "that means you should have voted Hillary" thing, that was a "how are you insisting no one is affected by Trump's policies?" thing Sorry if I came across as accusing you of that. You are a critical thinker presenting well thought arguments unlike that poor tortured american sandwich eating goat.  Moridin920 posted:Both parties suck, neither represents the people, we need a revolution of some kind. Arguing against Trump is not automatically support for Hillary. Moridin920 posted:A rising tide lifts all boats and a hosed up demolished Rust Belt worker has more in common with some schmuck laborer getting paid $1/day in SE Asia than he does with any American millionaire/billionaire. A demolished rust belt worker may also have more in common with a disenfranchised millennial than either the schmuck Asian laborer or the rich guy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:17
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:I feel like you guys aren't even disagreeing really and you're being accused of using the "we gotta nix regulations in order to attract factories" talking point which... you aren't? Spunky rarely has moments of clarify were an actual empathetic real person shines through, which is immediately over shadowed by his needs to justify the actions of his Lord and Savior Trump.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:17
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:I'ma just say that Germany has fairly strict environmental regulations and it doesn't seem to have hurt their manufacturing industry whatsoever. There is ample data and evidence that enforcing waste/energy reduction, environment protection and social responsibility programs in a company have a net positive return. The only reasons said companies don't want to have to tackle these topics are ignorance,shortsightedness and resistance to change.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:18
|
|
|
Toadvine posted:Germany also takes care of their workers (so I've read) so well that Wal Marts business model proved untenable in a country where labor is free to organize To top it all off, when the USA was helping Germany (and Europe in general) become a functioning state again we leaned *super heavy* on the "taking care of the citizens + strong protections of labor" stuff to make capitalism look v attractive relative to the USSR, which is a big reason why Europe has so many socialistic policies versus the USA! lol SpaceGoatFarts posted:There is ample data and evidence that enforcing waste/energy reduction, environment protection and social responsibility programs in a company have a net positive return. At least *some* companies are starting to come around to this, just like insurance companies in the US are going "hey if we give people a bit of preventative care we spend money now but save a poo poo ton later on!" *some* though and ofc some industries are always going to be highly environmentally damaging. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Mar 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:18
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:Did he say this though or is this something you're projecting onto his "at least Trump had a plan" comment? on the same page as your post posted:Some regulations here are better than no regulations overseas? Maybe once we get the factories back we can work on making them cleaner? Instead of just dumping garbage on the 3rd world
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:18
|
|
|
Kjoery posted:this entire conversation has been within the context of environmental regulations. you yourself have even responded to some of his posts regarding the removal of environmental regulations. Fair enough my bad.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:20
|
|
|
Like I said, either stance is invalid without actual details. The EPA could be overly restrictive. As it played out, it was doing nothing for the world overall except trading pollution for cheap plastic poo poo made by slaves
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:24
|
|
|
SpaceGoatFarts posted:couldn't they just vote Bernie? They tried. The Hillary campaign colluded with the media and the Democratic party heads and threw everything they had at Bernie, and made fun of his supporters.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:27
|
|
|
Spunky Psycho Ho posted:Like I said, either stance is invalid without actual details. The EPA could be overly restrictive. As it played out, it was doing nothing for the world overall except trading pollution for cheap plastic poo poo made by slaves If a company is OK with its product being done by slaves in 3rd world countries where they can dump poo poo in the rivers, I assure you that don't need any excuses like "overly restrictive local policies" to outsource all of their production. It's just a matter of how cynical the board members are.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:29
|
|
|
Spunky Psycho Ho posted:Like I said, either stance is invalid without actual details. The EPA could be overly restrictive. As it played out, it was doing nothing for the world overall except trading pollution for cheap plastic poo poo made by slaves it was to remove the epa and to remove regulations (they talked about this constantly) so if we agree that environmental regulations are important, and if you understand the nature of the republican platform, then there is no conflict here.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:30
|
|
|
What regulations though? Part of the platform is that global warming is a partially a hoax that was designed to enrich mega-corporations by over-regulating at home
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:32
|
|
|
Does everyone have Mordor She Wrote on ignore or something? No one is responding to his endless meltdown lmao
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:34
|
|
|
Spunky Psycho Ho posted:What regulations though? Part of the platform is that global warming is a partially a hoax that was designed to enrich mega-corporations by over-regulating at home
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:34
|
|
|
SBJ posted:Does everyone have Mordor She Wrote on ignore or something? No one is responding to his endless meltdown lmao Of course not, who would use ignore
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:37
|
|
|
Spunky Psycho Ho posted:What regulations though? Part of the platform is that global warming is a partially a hoax that was designed to enrich mega-corporations by over-regulating at home Like Ive said before Im on the fence regarding trump but this one of the main things pushing me away from his platform. Lets say everything he says is true and global warming is a hoax (its not), taking measures to reduce damage to the environment through clean energy is a good goal regardless. Especially when this movement has led to this option being cheaper than fossil fuels.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:37
|
|
|
It's unfortunate that environmental protection stuff is under the broad umbrella of "global warming" because yeah, that's def been overblown in various ways. Thanks, Al Gore, rear end in a top hat. However yeah it's true that climate change is real and even if not caused by man there are still all kinds of environmental gently caress ups we could be fixing. Removing stream/water protections has nothing to do with climate or temperature, it's just bad to pollute your water in order to make a coal company slightly more profitable. However, the GOP likes to pass all kinds of anti-environment poo poo under the guise of "global warming is bs" even if the thing in question has nothing to do with global warming, and that sucks and someone needs to start calling them on their poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:40
|
|
|
SBJ posted:Like Ive said before Im on the fence regarding trump but this one of the main things pushing me away from his platform. Except this happens http://www.sciencealert.com/the-end-of-coal-is-near-china-just-scrapped-103-power-plants China built like 500 coal plants that they didn't even need lol, and they build dirty rear end scum coal plants
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:40
|
|
|
SBJ posted:Does everyone have Mordor She Wrote on ignore or something? No one is responding to his endless meltdown lmao ignore is for babies but lol all the same.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:41
|
|
|
i find all the apocalyptic rhetoric regarding environmental issues risible, especially considering that both flint and the colorado spill were due to government incompetence and apathy, not any lack of regulation. most of the disagreements surrounding these issues are about whether we are conducting realistic cost-benefit analyses before issuing new regulations, and if it makes sense to continue chasing diminishing returns that frequently have negligible to non-existent benefits as far as i can tell, the leftist consensus is that they only wish they had the power to force the virus of humanity to pay the highest price, and wipe the earth clean of our existence.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:42
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:However yeah it's true that climate change is real and even if not caused by man also everyone interested in terraforming mars, too. because terraforming mars mostly involve pumping a shitton of CO2 into the atmosphere in order to heat up the surface.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:43
|
|
|
Kjoery posted:yea, uh, every climate scientist on the planet pretty much disagrees with you on this point, just fyi Yeah alright but you see what quibbling that stuff gets you with the GOP: nothing. There's no reason to have to convince them about global climate change stuff when you can light your tap water on fire instead.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:44
|
|
|
Spunky Psycho Ho posted:Except this happens I dont understand, is this refuting what I said? Is your angle "closed factories, less jobs"? Not trying to be a dick just not sure how it relates to my post.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:44
|
|
|
SBJ posted:I dont understand, is this refuting what I said? Is your angle "closed factories, less jobs"? Not trying to be a dick just not sure how it relates to my post. The angle is that whatever regulations we do at home is actually encouraging China to go balls out in burning coal for fun
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:46
|
|
|
Like you can argue with the GOP until you are blue in the face but it won't help because they just deny basic facts or you can show them this and go "well?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LBjSXWQRV8
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:46
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:Removing stream/water protections has nothing to do with climate or temperature, it's just bad to pollute your water in order to make a coal company slightly more profitable. Really it doesn't. It's like one of the most difficult preconceptions to have to debunk because most people think "profitability" with an horizon of 1-2 years.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:47
|
|
|
SpaceGoatFarts posted:Really it doesn't. It's like one of the most difficult preconceptions to have to debunk because most people think "profitability" with an horizon of 1-2 years. Well there's that too but yeah CEOs being short sighted clown shows is a whole different beast to tackle. Would help if so much of their compensation didn't revolve around short term stock price movements.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:48
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:Like you can argue with the GOP until you are blue in the face but it won't help because they just deny basic facts or you can show them this and go "well?" Dude, lol, this is propaganda. Those towns have been called "Burning Springs" because their water has always burned. That's why they frack there, because there's gas. I don't blame you though
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:48
|
|
|
Toadvine posted:Germany also protects their workers (so I've read) so well that Wal Marts business model proved untenable in a country where labor is free to organize almost sounds like some sort of socialism, perhaps even... national socialism?? 
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:49
|
|
|
Nut to Butt posted:as far as i can tell, the leftist consensus is that they only wish they had the power to force the virus of humanity to pay the highest price, and wipe the earth clean of our existence. Inch'Allah
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:49
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:Like you can argue with the GOP until you are blue in the face but it won't help because they just deny basic facts or you can show them this and go "well?"
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:49
|
|
|
Spunky Psycho Ho posted:Dude, lol, this is propaganda. Maybe so but in general quote:Methane that finds its way into surface waters — lakes, rivers, etc. — usually evaporates out quickly. Methane can be trapped in underground water sources, but proximity to shale gas wells can make the concentration of methane in water samples six times higher, according to a Duke University study.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvJAKVnK4qM But alright even if the burning water is totally fake, what about the increase in earthquake frequency in fracking areas? It's either the fracking or wastewater disposal resulting from fracking causing this:  (Oklahoma Geological Survey/University of Oklahoma)
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:53
|
|
|
Plus the byproduct of burning coal... http://www.eenews.net/stories/1059974730 quote:Battle lines form as sprawling dump leaks into W.Va. neighborhood image search "coal ash deposit" and marvel at the ongoing environmental disaster
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:55
|
|
|
Kjoery posted:what is this video and why does it matter hillbillies flaming faucets and 2.3 earthquakes are good reasons to have 5.00 a gallon gas which strangles the working poor lmao, the US is now a leading exporter of oil which has created god knows how many jobs and low energy prices for families and that is somehow bad?
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:56
|
|
|
Mnoba posted:hillbillies flaming faucets and 2.3 earthquakes are good reasons to have 5.00 a gallon gas which strangles the working poor lmao, the US is now a leading exporter of oil which has created god knows how many jobs and low energy prices for families and that is somehow bad? Yeah and that was aaaalll because of fracking right? The most expensive form of oil extraction which is only economically viable when the price of oil is high? Idiot.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:58
|
|
|
Kjoery posted:i think youre confusing their platform with a tweet by trump in 2012 I think you may be confusing 2 things. How the EPA operates in theory vs reality which are different. The EPA likes to selectively enforce their rules on certain industries they don't like and look the other way if it is an industry they do like. They have become highly politicized and of course if you have enough money then the endangered lizards are suddenly no longer endangered. I have worked in multiple Green technology manufacturing operations and there is nothing green about them. I have seen things at these places that are bad for the environment and dangerous for workers and OSHA and the EPA is nowhere to be found because they are government funded. How is giving these people more funding and more regulations gonna help? It is part of a larger problem that many of our Goverment institutions have become highly politicized and highly corrupt.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:58
|
|
|
Mnoba posted:hillbillies flaming faucets and 2.3 earthquakes are good reasons to have 5.00 a gallon gas which strangles the working poor lmao, the US is now a leading exporter of oil which has created god knows how many jobs and low energy prices for families and that is somehow bad? leftism is anti-humanism, and makes a lot more sense as a whole when viewed through that prism
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:58
|
|
|
Nut to Butt posted:leftism is anti-humanism, and makes a lot more sense as a whole when viewed through that prism lol what??
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 22:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 00:46 |
|
|
Fracking only happens when oil is expensive thus your entire little "lol liberals" argument there is nonsensical hth.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 23:00
|
|