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my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Trin, are we back to using runners? Because the post you linked talks a lot about runners.

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Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005

Yeah, I just went and realised that I missed a bunch of edits to that post that made it into the German thread in the same place. The two posts have now been equalised and the old rules relating to runners have been removed.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

Trin Tragula posted:

Yeah, I just went and realised that I missed a bunch of edits to that post that made it into the German thread in the same place. The two posts have now been equalised and the old rules relating to runners have been removed.

Could you also please edit in the links to the rules posts to your second post in the thread? They're kind of hard to keep track of otherwise.

Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005

That was going to be my boring admin crap task for today and then I found out that there are a bunch of little inconsistencies between the two threads' rulesposts (no, I can't just keep one copy without e.g. blowing the surprise that you've got armoured cars and what their capabilities are), so then ironing those out became my boring admin crap task.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer
:siren: Everyone read and comment on this. :siren:



This is a rough idea of trench and wire placement so far. Right now everybody needs to be working together on creating this map of erections as this will be how we defend against the Germans.

Basic highlights of the set up

Foret de Effyaders and Bois de Blob become natural forts of which we can harass the enemy without worrying about being hit first.

First wave of trenches in Saucisson Valle and the ones furthest to the west are gun pits.

As a general point of order. Any brigade that is near a point where we want to set up trenches has to get to work on them as fast as they can. My engineers will try to set up as much as they can put they need time.

For turn tracking

By the 21st turn I can have every wire piece set up near the ford that is south of Foret de Effyaders so I need about 20 turns of safety to get that ready.

Remember that it takes 6 turns to set up wire and ten turns for engineers to create 7" worth of trenches.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
tl;dr version: Hunt can't read your mind. To know where you can use defenses, you need to tell him, otherwise he's de facto planning our whole multi day long defense plan on his own.



Start planning now, and try to place defenses in such a way that A) they're useful to you B) they're a lot less useful to the enemy if it's trenches C) aren't too densely packed (because artillery) and D) give as much digging work as possible to the troops so that engineers can go do engineer stuff

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Loel posted:

After giving it some thought, I think Case 2, Northern Bypass is most likely. Case 1 has several traffic jam points and leads into our defensive valley where we can surround them on 3 sides.

Case 2 is more sneaky. Catches our attention with the fight for the crossroads, and grabs a couple northern fords while we are distracted with their main line.

I think our initial scout deployment should be able to prove or disprove the theory, and they will hit our reinforcement trigger if they cross into the northern woods.

Bacarruda, I remember you were considering moving your most northern brigade to support the center, what are your thoughts?

First off, a question, if they're going to pin with one and flank with the other, why not go south? North has better crossings, but South is harder for us to mount an overwhelming ambush on, if they just get the back edge, I'd be looking hard at the south from their perspective.

I think that one of the enemy dispositions I think is semi-likely, which is 1 cav brigade and a mix of infantry would lend itself well to that sort of maneuver though. The one thing I think makes it a bit less likely is it's still splitting their forces up, the flankers can't support the attack on Steth. If they guess we're heavy on mobility, they may set up an arty heavy unit to pound Steth, push two around the flanks and try for something like we were considering on St. Croissant if my dad hadn't gone on a hell ride. If they project an infantry composition on us they may go for a brigade charge on Steth and run right into our MGs and cav.

Terrifying Effigies
Oct 22, 2008

Problems look mighty small from 150 miles up.

my dad posted:

tl;dr version: Hunt can't read your mind. To know where you can use defenses, you need to tell him, otherwise he's de facto planning our whole multi day long defense plan on his own.



Start planning now, and try to place defenses in such a way that A) they're useful to you B) they're a lot less useful to the enemy if it's trenches C) aren't too densely packed (because artillery) and D) give as much digging work as possible to the troops so that engineers can go do engineer stuff

Copied over a paraphrase with Hunt11 from the Chat:

So our general order of priorities would be:
1) get the southern fords wired up
2) if we're still holding at Steth/Chemin work on wiring the northern fords, otherwise set up wire along the edge of Foret Effyaders
3) work on gunpits in the valley

This assumes that the Cavalry is already digging in their own positions in Effyaders and Blob...it's up to individual commanders to tell Hunt11 whether they need help putting in trenches faster/having them ready before they arrive on the field.

thatbastardken
Apr 23, 2010

A contract signed by a minor is not binding!
I'm not sold on putting gunpits in the depression - I'd prefer that time be spent on putting some entrenchments across the road closer to the ford.

Unless that's going to be a major problem for the AC brigade, or expose the engineers to to much fire

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Hunt11 posted:

Foret de Effyaders and Bois de Blob become natural forts of which we can harass the enemy without worrying about being hit first.

First wave of trenches in Saucisson Valle and the ones furthest to the west are gun pits.

As a general point of order. Any brigade that is near a point where we want to set up trenches has to get to work on them as fast as they can. My engineers will try to set up as much as they can put they need time.

21st Brigade is responsible for the fords at M4-M6 - right on the 9 o'clock road. I plan on beelining for that position to provide extra shovels.
Here's what I'd like to see at that crossing:



I would consider the change in orientation at 1 to be very important. The extra wire (or a trench) at 3 would be nice to have. The one at 2 would be very nice to have.

Moving the wire from the edge of the valee east to my projected position would cover the most important addition I want.

Loel
Jun 4, 2012

"For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.



xthetenth posted:

First off, a question, if they're going to pin with one and flank with the other, why not go south? North has better crossings, but South is harder for us to mount an overwhelming ambush on, if they just get the back edge, I'd be looking hard at the south from their perspective.

I think that one of the enemy dispositions I think is semi-likely, which is 1 cav brigade and a mix of infantry would lend itself well to that sort of maneuver though. The one thing I think makes it a bit less likely is it's still splitting their forces up, the flankers can't support the attack on Steth. If they guess we're heavy on mobility, they may set up an arty heavy unit to pound Steth, push two around the flanks and try for something like we were considering on St. Croissant if my dad hadn't gone on a hell ride. If they project an infantry composition on us they may go for a brigade charge on Steth and run right into our MGs and cav.

Two main things enter my mind when I compare North vs South. Firstly, the north has two bridges closer to the edge of the map, M1 and M2. Meanwhile, the south has M7, and at nearly twice the distance, M6. More importantly, M1 and M2 lead directly into a forest, which is cover/concealment. M6/M7 leads to open plains, a small forest, and a valley where we are likely to be setting up trenches. Looking back at the north, Foret de Effyanders exits near two farms (more concealment) and R1.

chat posted:

8:28PM
Pere Loel (GM): okay, heres what I want. I need a scout in the area of m1 m2 in case they try to flank us. I want the AC on steth, and a cav brigade to support them
AbortRetryFail (7th Div. Chief of Staff PSC) (GM): I am all for taking ~1 maybe 2 ACs as a scout elsewhere
Pere Loel (GM): WITH suffienct orders to bail if necessar
my dad (GM): The scout is best suited for the E5 crossroad
Pere Loel (GM): good call
I think they are going to split along north and steth
so I want the main focus thats in steth to be able to punch one brigade
and be able to survive/run from two
keep in mind, we're not holding steth forever, we're expecting a slower army behind them on the road

my dad (GM): With the ACs + reinforcement cavalry, we can hold steth and south approach from a lot of enemies
Pere Loel (GM): kick their face at steth, get ready to run to the river
AbortRetryFail (7th Div. Chief of Staff PSC) (GM): ^
Pere Loel (GM): steth and 6 oclock is pretty defensible
ProfessorCurly (GM): Honestly
my dad (GM): We need at least 16 turns, preferably 24 turns of delay there
Pere Loel (GM): BUT have prep just in case
my dad (GM): The best time tor retreat
is just before nightfall
ProfessorCurly (GM): I'm starting to think that we might not need a northern scout
my dad (GM): We do, for wire cutting purposes
Pere Loel (GM): I want some engineers behind the river preparing for the infantry / fallback positions
if you think we need some engineers near 6 clock, and have some to spare
take that into consideration
but the vallee between the forests is going to be our second killzone

my dad (GM): I don't think bringing engineers across the creek is a good idea
Hunt11 (RHA Engineers) (GM): As I said in the thread
Pere Loel (GM): so I want something there
Hunt11 (RHA Engineers) (GM): I can have every ford south of Effyaders wired by turn 21
Pere Loel (GM): excellent
my dad (GM): which is to say
we need to hold until then

Loel fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Mar 10, 2017

professor_curly
Mar 4, 2016

There he is!
Do we need to have eyes on the enemy entering these critical locations to trigger emergency reinforcements? Do we need to see them enter Foret de Effyaders on turn 1 to get the Belgians to enter, or are there miscellaneous scouts and locals who will alert those forces regardless of where we are?

Loel
Jun 4, 2012

"For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.



professor_curly posted:

Do we need to have eyes on the enemy entering these critical locations to trigger emergency reinforcements? Do we need to see them enter Foret de Effyaders on turn 1 to get the Belgians to enter, or are there miscellaneous scouts and locals who will alert those forces regardless of where we are?

quote:

Emergency Reinforcements

The following emergency reinforcements will be granted to you at my absolute discretion. Appeals will be disregarded. Excessive appeals will forfeit the reinforcements.

A brigade of Belgian infantry will enter the map in the region of Trois Freres if: the enemy enters Saucisson Vallee or the Foret d'Effyaders on Day 1; or the enemy crosses the western north-south road on a subsequent day.

A brigade of French marines will enter the map amphibiously down the Effyaders Canal if the enemy crosses the canal or seems likely to do so.

The local government might, in extreme circumstances, be persuaded to flood the northern part of the map, so that the battle is constricted to an area approximately 25" from the southern border of the map, in order to facilitate some kind of daring last stand. You are unaware of the precise requirements for triggering this last possibility.

Looks like its local villagers who report it.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

mllaneza posted:

21st Brigade is responsible for the fords at M4-M6 - right on the 9 o'clock road. I plan on beelining for that position to provide extra shovels.
Here's what I'd like to see at that crossing:



I would consider the change in orientation at 1 to be very important. The extra wire (or a trench) at 3 would be nice to have. The one at 2 would be very nice to have.

Moving the wire from the edge of the valee east to my projected position would cover the most important addition I want.

1st piece of wire: The hope of my placement is to maybe get them gummed up in moving across the ford for an additional turn.
2nd piece of wire: Good idea though it is up in the air if I will be able to do it as by that point the Germans may be pushing across.
3rd piece of wire: The earliest I could see setting that up would be at the start of the second day.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Hunt11 posted:

1st piece of wire: The hope of my placement is to maybe get them gummed up in moving across the ford for an additional turn.

I'm thinking in terms of putting infantry in trenches behind them. God and the King willing, and the cavalry slows them up.

Loel
Jun 4, 2012

"For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.



So, Who has a set of orders ready?

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
I'll have one as soon as both of the following criteria are met:
1) I'm present for a sufficient amount of time to make it
2) I have final orders

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Hunt11 posted:

:siren: Everyone read and comment on this. :siren:



This is a rough idea of trench and wire placement so far. Right now everybody needs to be working together on creating this map of erections as this will be how we defend against the Germans.

Basic highlights of the set up

Foret de Effyaders and Bois de Blob become natural forts of which we can harass the enemy without worrying about being hit first.

First wave of trenches in Saucisson Valle and the ones furthest to the west are gun pits.

As a general point of order. Any brigade that is near a point where we want to set up trenches has to get to work on them as fast as they can. My engineers will try to set up as much as they can put they need time.

For turn tracking

By the 21st turn I can have every wire piece set up near the ford that is south of Foret de Effyaders so I need about 20 turns of safety to get that ready.

Remember that it takes 6 turns to set up wire and ten turns for engineers to create 7" worth of trenches.

I will officially recommend that a mid-late day 1 goal should be the destruction of R1 bridge.

Our engineers will either be in two situations for your 20 turn timetable for wire.

1. The Germans are held back, suffering casualties and forced to gather reinforcements

2. The Germans can push through our planned defenses, and will likely continue pushing until their command radius or our own reinforcements arrive to stem the tide.

In both cases, one company of engineers should be sent to destroy R1 bridge. It is my strong opinion that the Germans will be maintaining a stronger force than us for tthese first 2 days of battle, and we should take efforts to limit the number of approaches the Germans have towards Effyaders. We deploy from the South, and our current defenses are focussed on the middle and the South. If we are ever pushed away from our defences, or should night fall, the Germans may be tempted to send a force out to menace Effyaders. Our limited ability to defend the Northern portion of the map should encourage us to deny the Germans value from the North.

Bacarruda
Mar 30, 2011

Mutiny!?! More like "reinterpreted orders"

Major-General Desmond de Vere Barrington, GCVO, DSO and Bar. General Officer Commanding 3rd Cavalry Division, British Expeditionary Force.

Gentlemen, here is our order of battle. As you can see, we have some of the finest regiments in the British Army. Our traditions go back to Waterloo and the long shadows of our ancestors lie over us in this moment. Let's make them proud.

Arriving Turn 0:
Royal Naval Air Service (RNAS) Armoured Car Section: Commander sixkiller, RNVR

Arriving Turn 4:
6th Cavalry Brigade: Brigadier General xthetenth
-1st (Royal) Dragoons
-10th (Prince of Wales's Own Royal) Hussars
-3rd (Prince of Wales's) Dragoon Guards
-C Battery RAH
-Mounted Troop, Royal Engineers -- Lieutenant Colonel Hunt11, RE
Total Strength: Brigade HQ, 10 cavalry companies, 2 horse artillery batteries, 1 mounted MG company, 2 mounted engineer companies.

Arriving Turn 10:
7th Cavalry Brigade: Brigadier General mydad
-1st Life Guards
-2nd Life Guards,
-Royal Horse Guards
-K Battery RAH
Total Strength: Brigade HQ, 10 cavalry companies, 2 horse artillery batteries, 1 mounted MG company

All officers, here is the situation.

German forces have broken through the Belgian lines and are headed right for the town of Effyaders. If Effyaders fall, the Channel ports fall. If the Channel ports fall, the BEF falls. if the BEF falls, France falls. And if France falls, Britian falls. The fate of the world lies on our shoulders at this moment.

The 7th Infantry Division will be bringing its three brigades and artillery onto the field 36 hours from now. We must hold until then.

I expect to face a German cavalry division+ on the first day, probably supported by horse artillery, bicycle troops and crack light infantry. We may see some German infantry on Day 1. We will face at least a division+ of infantry, with indirect fire on Day 2.

Enemy troop quality may be low. There are many German reserve troops in this area. But don't count on it.



Here is our mission. Pevent the German from taking Effyaders. Hold as much ground on the right bank of the Effyaders Canal as possible. Our objective: Germans from crossing Zone 4 in force, Make this line ourfront line at the end of the battle. If we cannot accomplish that, we will fall back to Zone 5 and seek to hold that as our secondary objective.

Loel posted:



Bacarruda
Commander's intent: You are to focus on Zone 3. Priority list as follows:
1) Maintain integrity of command
2) Scout opposing forces
3) Ambush targets of opportunity
4) Fallback to zone 4 when the situation warrants

Scouting priorities are to find out:
What brigades we are facing, and in what composition
Where are they coming from, and at what speeds
What is their most likely avenue of approach towards Zone 4.

Here is how we will execute our plan.

Our overall plan is simple. Armoured Cars rush forwards to the Chemins to delay the enemy for as long as possible, then retreat back to hold the M4 and M7 fords. One Cav brigade will race forwards to take Stethoscope. It will work with the Armored Cars to delay enemy forces outside of town for as long as possible, before both fallback. One brigade in the north in Effyaders. Engineers creating obstructions at the fords to hinder enemy movements.

My intent for all commanders is simple: delay, disrupt, distract. You must confuse and harry the Germans as much as possible. What we lack in strength, we must make up for in guile. Ambush them with rifles or sabres as you see fit. Use cover and concealment. Use chokepoints to cancel out their numbers. Bloody well slow the Hun down until our infantry can get there.

When night falls, we must be wary of German night attacks or flanking moves.

Here are your orders.


*Ignore Division HQ placement.

All commanders - I want conditionals that account for the best case, worst-case, and most likely enemy scenarios. Make sure you have a plan to fall back to our marked last-stand locations. Here are timetables to help guide your planning.

professor_curly posted:

Timetables
Table 1: Armored Car Movement (Road)


Table 2: Enemy Cavalry Movements (Marching Order)


Table 3: AC + Enemy Movements


3rd Cavalry Division HQ - IGNORE THE MAP -- move to the western edge of the valley, dig in by the side of the road and start laying telephone wire back to HQ.

Scout aircraft, fly over the suggested spot at Turn 12. Please center your recon on the eastern edge of Ferme Chatte so that the recon plane can see both of the Le Dand bridges.

RNAS Armoured Car Section (Sixkiller), you will move in Three Phases.

In Phase 1 -- send 1-2 cars as scouts over the M1 ford and into the 12 o'clock portion of the Chemins to scout for enemy forces in the north and to cut wires. If engaged, fall back and report enemy positions to HQ.

Also in Phase 1 -- send 8-9 of your cars into the 6 o'clockem from getting there. segment of the Chemins to engage German cavalry or jaegers approaching Stethoscope. Your objective is to stop them from entering the town.

Consider sending some cars into the shoulder of the road, using oblique formations, etc. to maximize your frontal firepower towards the town, although keep in mind the movement penalties you face when going off-road (if you go 1" off-road, you will only have 16" of move points left if you get back on the road). Stay in this position until 6th Cavalry Brigade arrives or you are driven off.

If the enemy secures Stethoscope with two or more brigades or attacks you with overwhelming force at (i.e. 2+ cavalry, jaeger, etc. brigades), you are to retreat south to the M7. Issue conditional orders for this situation. Dispatch a man to alert 6th Brigade of this fact.

Phase 2 -- if 6th Brigade is able to capture Stethoscope -- consider re-positioning your forces in and around the town. Coordinate with the cav to take advantage of billy bonuses when in town.

Hold Stethoscope for as long as feasible. If faced with overwhelming force (i.e. a direct assault by three or more brigades, you are to immediately fall back and start Phase 3.

Phase 3 -- Once you are forced out of the Stehscope area, fall back west of the M7 in force. Send a few cars west of to support 6th Brigade. Use the bottlenecks at fords to prevent enemy forces from charging your forces. Delay them as long as possible until cavalry or infantry brigades can arrive to support you. If overwhelmed by enemy forces, break contact and find suitable ambush positions, or fallback west of the crossroads at the Zone 5 last stand site.

Have your remaining cars acts as scouts covering the M1 fords supporting 7th Cavalry Brigade. Do not let them get destroyed.

6th Cavalry Brigade (xthetenth), you'll enter the map on Turn 4. Your orders are to move to Stehscope as fast as possible and take the town.

If the town and immediate area are held by two or more enemy brigades, do not assault. Instead, move to the Effyaders area, dig in and cover the M4. The Armoured Cars will try to alert you if multiple enemy units are spotted in the Stethoscope area. Issue a conditional that covers this situation.

If the town is not occupied by two brigades, then you are to charge into Stethoscope and secure it. Once it town, move men into the 12 o'clock portion of the Chemins and into the outskirts of town. Hold the town for as long as possible. If you sight 3+ attacking enemy brigades, retreat. Alert the Armoured Cars you are falling back.

When you fall back, move to the Effyaders area, dig in and cover the M4. If faced with 2+ brigades worth of enemy troops - delay them for as long as possible, then retreat into the Effyaders forest and prepare to ambush enemy troops entering the forest. Alert HQ when you do this. If you spot unsupported artillery or an lone brigade within charging range, consider charging them, then retreating.

If your men are routed or driven from the forest, rally in the valley at Zone 5 and hold the line there.

7th Cavalry Brigade (mydad), you'll enter the map on Turn 10. head to the Effyaders Forest to cover the M1, M2 and M3. Dig in when you get there. Be prepared to change plans and act as a fire brigade force to deal with an enemy breakout if 6th Cavalry Brigade is destroyed.

If faced with 3+ brigades worth of enemy troops - engage them at the fords for as long as you deem feasible (appx 1-2 turns). Then, fall back into the Effyaders Forest. Alert HQ when you do this. Given the advantageous terrain in the forest - you can ambush, fall back, and ambush enemy forces again. Hold the Effyaders Forest at all costs. If your men are routed or driven from the forest, rally in the farms at Zone 5 and hold the line there.

Royal Engineers (Hunt11), Keeping mind timetables (your movement time, German movement time, build time), block the M7 and M6 fords with wire or a roadblock. Make sure you do not trap the armored cars or 6th Cavalry Brigade on the eastern bank. I also want some wire or roadblocks on the East-West Road. If safe, continue wiring or roadblock the rest of the fords.

Once that is done, begin building trenches in the gap between Effyaders and the Bois de Blob for the 7th Infantry Division to occupy.

If poo poo hits the fan and the enemy begin to cross the middle river in force (i.e. two or more brigades)-- then fall back to Zone 5 and begin to fortify it.

Remember you can loot farms for wire if you run out. Each engineer unit will also get a 3" of wire on the start of each new day. Do not worry about blowing bridges on the first day.
QUESTIONS, GENTLEMEN?

Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Mar 12, 2017

Loel
Jun 4, 2012

"For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.



Looks solid from here.



TBK, do you see the proposed fall back points in above plan? Are you able to set up the 2nd line of defense as proposed in your post here?



My ideal scenario would have us falling back from the river as needed, to a nest around this area.

*If the engineers dont think they can built in time*, let me know.

edit: Im not dictating those exact locations for the wire and trenches, just zone 4 as the 2nd line of defense if at all reasonable. Engineers, use your best judgement.

Loel fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Mar 10, 2017

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous


Trajectory:


The 7th Cavalry Brigade is to enter the map at the spot marked with the red dot in marching formation, and proceed for 3 turns down the red line. I'm not quite sure how precisely I measured the position where they'll end up - please use their full movement to advance down the road rather than reaching that specific point marked by the arrow.

(contingency orders: If enemy is encountered while we're in marching formation, retreat back down the road for a turn if possible, or break off if regular retreat is not possible. Following that, switch to combat formation facing the last known position of the enemy and await further orders.)

After those 3 turns, it should switch to combat formation, and proceed down the blue line to the final destination as fast as possible.

Combat movement formation while on the Attack:


Standing orders while on the Attack:
Charge
Face the enemy
Pursue
Fight to the last man and the last horse

Final formation after switching to Defend (ignore the crossed out chit, it's not supposed to be there)


Standing orders while on the Defense:
Shoot
Hold position
Do not pursue
Fight to the last man and the last horse

The MG is supposed to be using the billy bonus to be able to shoot past all 3 fords. Everyone should dig in as fast as possible.

Yo, engineers, I would very much like barbed wire at the locations shown in the picture above.

thatbastardken
Apr 23, 2010

A contract signed by a minor is not binding!

Loel posted:

Looks solid from here.



TBK, do you see the proposed fall back points in above plan? Are you able to set up the 2nd line of defense as proposed in your post here?



My ideal scenario would have us falling back from the river as needed, to a nest around this area.

*If the engineers dont think they can built in time*, let me know.

edit: Im not dictating those exact locations for the wire and trenches, just zone 4 as the 2nd line of defense if at all reasonable. Engineers, use your best judgement.

All my current (limited) planning involves zone 4, I'll develop it in more detail as the game progresses

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

I will officially recommend that a mid-late day 1 goal should be the destruction of R1 bridge.

Our engineers will either be in two situations for your 20 turn timetable for wire.

1. The Germans are held back, suffering casualties and forced to gather reinforcements

2. The Germans can push through our planned defenses, and will likely continue pushing until their command radius or our own reinforcements arrive to stem the tide.

In both cases, one company of engineers should be sent to destroy R1 bridge. It is my strong opinion that the Germans will be maintaining a stronger force than us for tthese first 2 days of battle, and we should take efforts to limit the number of approaches the Germans have towards Effyaders. We deploy from the South, and our current defenses are focussed on the middle and the South. If we are ever pushed away from our defences, or should night fall, the Germans may be tempted to send a force out to menace Effyaders. Our limited ability to defend the Northern portion of the map should encourage us to deny the Germans value from the North.

So you want to use a limited resource for an entire day in order to maybe make the Germans take an extra couple turns? Setting up wire at M1 would achieve almost the exact same thing and would be much faster. If you want that to be a priority target of wring the M1 ford I can understand and potentially support it. Anything involving blowing up bridges on the first day is not going to happen.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Those are really sound looking orders Bac, I'll try to match them when I get home from work.

Bacarruda
Mar 30, 2011

Mutiny!?! More like "reinterpreted orders"

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

I will officially recommend that a mid-late day 1 goal should be the destruction of R1 bridge.

Our engineers will either be in two situations for your 20 turn timetable for wire.

1. The Germans are held back, suffering casualties and forced to gather reinforcements

2. The Germans can push through our planned defenses, and will likely continue pushing until their command radius or our own reinforcements arrive to stem the tide.

In both cases, one company of engineers should be sent to destroy R1 bridge. It is my strong opinion that the Germans will be maintaining a stronger force than us for tthese first 2 days of battle, and we should take efforts to limit the number of approaches the Germans have towards Effyaders. We deploy from the South, and our current defenses are focussed on the middle and the South. If we are ever pushed away from our defences, or should night fall, the Germans may be tempted to send a force out to menace Effyaders. Our limited ability to defend the Northern portion of the map should encourage us to deny the Germans value from the North.

The Fusiliers Marins Brigade and the Belgian Brigade will arrive at the canal if the Germans get enough cross there.

Also, there is a good chance that the Belgians will flood the northern edge of the map if the Germans are that close to Effyaders, which would wipe out the northern bridge, anyways.

We don't need to worry about destroying that bridge.

grassy gnoll
Aug 27, 2006

The pawsting business is tough work.
Destroying any potential escape routes will only encourage The Men to fighter harder.

What supply issues? All our lads need to acquire victory is a foot of good British steel and their natural gumption and fightitude.

spectralent
Oct 1, 2014

Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Bacarruda posted:

Also, there is a good chance that the Belgians will flood the northern edge of the map if the Germans are that close to Effyaders, which would wipe out the northern bridge, anyways.

We don't need to worry about destroying that bridge.

I'd be real, real cautious about that given we don't even know what the criteria are and it's from local government, not the military.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

grassy gnoll posted:

Destroying any potential escape routes will only encourage The Men to fighter harder.

What supply issues? All our lads need to acquire victory is a foot of good British steel and their natural gumption and fightitude.

If you want it destroyed then you can do it yourself.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

spectralent posted:

I'd be real, real cautious about that given we don't even know what the criteria are and it's from local government, not the military.

I mean, the reason I don't want to blow up that bridge is that it's pointless, wastes precious time, and doesn't actually help us.

The emergency reinforcements are something that's nice to know exists, but I absolutely wouldn't rely on them. They're a rubberband game balancing tool for the GM, not a weapon in our arsenal.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Actually, I've got a question. There's a chance I'd be getting on the scene late and might not be able to see the enemy in Steth, would I be able to switch to a second option if I see the armored cars falling back?

Bacarruda
Mar 30, 2011

Mutiny!?! More like "reinterpreted orders"

xthetenth posted:

Actually, I've got a question. There's a chance I'd be getting on the scene late and might not be able to see the enemy in Steth, would I be able to switch to a second option if I see the armored cars falling back?

You are welcome to include such an order. But given the spotting distances -- you may not have a complete picture of what is going on.

What did you want your men to do in this contingency?

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Hunt11 posted:

So you want to use a limited resource for an entire day in order to maybe make the Germans take an extra couple turns? Setting up wire at M1 would achieve almost the exact same thing and would be much faster. If you want that to be a priority target of wring the M1 ford I can understand and potentially support it. Anything involving blowing up bridges on the first day is not going to happen.

We aren't using our engineers in mid-late day 1 efficiently anyways. Are they going to dig random trenches that we don't have units to fill?

The M1 will be a major annoyance for us to cover all game. At worst, it could lose us the game if the Germans get cheeky and sneak a damaged brigade through Trois Freres. Our defense centers on the Saucisson Valle, and our deployment zone prevents us easily reaching the Northern half of the map. We have no need for M1, we can't even deploy from that half of the map, so why should we allow the Germans backdoor into Effyaders?



Your point about M2 is nonsense. We will absolutely have to defend the Canal, but we don't have the forces to defend all 3 crossings. Thus, we destroy the M1, which is more difficult for us to defend, and more isolated to reinforce.


Bacarruda posted:

The Fusiliers Marins Brigade and the Belgian Brigade will arrive at the canal if the Germans get enough cross there.

Also, there is a good chance that the Belgians will flood the northern edge of the map if the Germans are that close to Effyaders, which would wipe out the northern bridge, anyways.

We don't need to worry about destroying that bridge.

It will be to our benefit not to flood the map, as we will probably have plenty of units in saucisson valle and I don't know what will happen to them if they suddenly find themselves in a lake. Also, turning the battleground into a marshy pit will not suit our eventual counterattack.

If we blow the M!, even the townies should understand that the Germans cannot simply jump across the river to menace them.

Edit: My concern for our entire deployment is that we seem to be committing ourselves to defending the entire N-S breadth of this map, when we probably do not have the forces to do so. It is not all "doom and gloom" to expect our lines to contract as the battle goes on, but a natural consequence of that contraction is that the outermost paths to effyaders will be compromised.

Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Mar 11, 2017

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer
Whats bugging me about your plan is just how half-assed it is. If we are going to get any benefit in blowing up bridges to slow down the Germans we need to destroy every single one of them. If not they will just spend a couple turns moving to the next point and continuing forward. We have two options, keep the enemy as far back as possible or settling in for a siege. I for one am quite happy with the current idea of keeping the Germans as far away from the objective as possible which is our current plan. Your idea will make it easier for the Germans to take the ford and to start grinding us back to our objectives.

Loel
Jun 4, 2012

"For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.





Engineers, focus no further west then Danger Road / zone 4. We don't need to be building defenses at the Effyanders canal / zone 7 when the enemy haven't even reached Stethoscope. If it helps, we're going to (roughly) have Engineers/Infantry/Cav in their own zones, working their west over the course of the game. We'll be cutting bridges soon enough.

Brigade commanders, ensure your orders have when you withdrawal, under what circumstances, and where you go. Coordinate with the engineers and your command on this, the controlled withdrawal is as important as the initial punch.

:siren: Do not retreat past Danger Road until I give new orders allowing it :siren:

Loel fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Mar 11, 2017

Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005

Tweak to sighting in forests

As discussed in Roll20 the other day, a company may now see out of a Wood if it is within 4 inches of the relevant edge.

The spotter plane

The spotter plane does not have to be ordered immediately, but it must be ordered no later than the second pause for new orders, after Turn 16.

vvv is that 12 noon or Turn 12, bearing in mind that I like to have things in turns wherever possible vvv

Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Mar 11, 2017

Loel
Jun 4, 2012

"For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.



I believe we have the plane going out at Turn 12.

Loel fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Mar 11, 2017

Bacarruda
Mar 30, 2011

Mutiny!?! More like "reinterpreted orders"
xtehtenth, you need to get your orders up ASAP. Please note that I have made some small changes to my division orders. I'd like you to make the center of Effyaders forest your primary fallback position, with the Zone 5 valley as the emergency fallback.

my dad posted:

Standing orders while on the Defense:
Shoot
Hold position
Do not pursue
Fight to the last man and the last horse

As discussed in Roll20, I strongly encourage you to consider falling back into the Effyaders Forest and using the terrain there to mount ambushes if faced with 3+ brigades worth of enemy forces. The ambush mechanics work strongly in our favor there.

I have edited my division orders post to reflect this.

For those curious about how ambushes will work in the woods.

Trin posted:

Trin Tragula (GM): Let me clarify something here
Since this is the first time we've run into a situation where it is useful
A company which successfully lays an Ambush, and then moves and is unspotted on a subsquent turn, is able to lay another Ambush as long as it can find somewhere to stop
Trin Tragula (GM): If they can't keep eyes on you, it's quite feasible for a brigade to e.g. have a staged retreat through Effyaders, constantly ambushing
it would need both judgement and luck to pull off
but it's not impossible

Loel posted:

I believe we have the plane going out at Turn 12.

Confirmed -- Turn 12.

And for location -- please site it at the eastern edge of the Ferme Chatte so that it can see the Le Dand Bridges and a small segment (like 1") of the eastern bank near the bridges.

sullat
Jan 9, 2012
I wonder how the ambush rules interact with cavalry charges as opposed to shooting? Cavalry in a forest is spotted from 8" away. They can move 12". So they see some guys bumble up towards the forest, they burst out in a ambush cavalry charge, can't be shot at, and run down some dudes. Then they fall back to the forest, and go invisible again. I suppose if anyone survived the cavalry charge they might not get stealth, but I think the surviving victims of charges retreat suppressed, so... This would work well in conjunction with the fords, since anyone who can see is going to be backed up on the other side of the river. Bois de Blob would be a great place to test that out, especially if you place the wire so that companies get stuck just over 8" away from the forest after crossing the river.

Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005

A company must be stationary to benefit from the Ambush rule. You must move to charge, so there is no such thing as an ambush charge.

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Bacarruda
Mar 30, 2011

Mutiny!?! More like "reinterpreted orders"
Hunt11, please post your finalized engineering plan as soon as you can. Thanks!

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