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Party Plane Jones posted:Yeah, they literally had Martian marine armor right loving there 5 feet from them. None of the suits are fitted for them though. Like, that's probably a serious issue for power armor. Also Diogo you piece of poo poo
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Mar 10, 2017 06:43
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I hate Dawes because he has his own agenda which is usually at odds with our protagonists. HOWEVER, his arguments and justification make total sense to me. OPA's actions are a slave revolt, or if I'm being generous, could be said to be similar to the events that led to the American Revolution. He's a fantastic character. He's the antagonist I sympathize with. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 06:48
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flosofl posted:I hate Dawes because he has his own agenda which is usually at odds with our protagonists. That's an odd way of being generous. Slave revolts are less justified than tax revolts?
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Mar 10, 2017 06:53
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:That's an odd way of being generous. Slave revolts are less justified than tax revolts? Generous in the chain of reasoning to link it. Meaning if I only look at the broad brush strokes of the two, I can see similarities. EDIT: OK, I probably should have put "or if I'm being generous" in there instead. I'll edit. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 06:59
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Barreft posted:There's no way Venus isn't currently being colonized by the Proto-thing. I'm most excited to see the exploration force on the planet they talked about a few episodes ago. As a non book reader (for now, I'll probably read them after this season) I totally agree with you. However, I've gone out of my way not to mention it, because I have no doubt some asshat will come into the thread and post like an entire chapter from one of the later books behind a spoilers tag in response, which has happened several times already in this thread.
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Mar 10, 2017 07:02
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Fister Roboto posted:None of the suits are fitted for them though. Like, that's probably a serious issue for power armor. Alex wears one every time they suit up now, though.
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Mar 10, 2017 07:15
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I think... I think Dawes is a good guy. He's an antagonist, but I don't think he's been wrong about anything. The only real criticism of him is that he's power hungry or something, but he seems to pretty responsible and community oriented with his power, so that's not so bad? He's right about Johnson having a more barter/property based kind of logic, while Dawes is working with the whole gift economy mentality of the Belt. I think that Belter mentality of sharing what you can, and ostracizing hoarders is... probably a pretty solid basis for a non-exploitative economy. Johnson doesn't really seem to get that aspect of things intuitively. Dawes has a more adversarial view of the system than Johnson or Holden, but he's not a dumb belligerent nationalist. He agreed about returning the nukes, even those are really tempting to hold on to as a symbol of power. He realized, no matter how it feels, they're kind of useless in achieving their goals. So I think I'm actually on Dawes side here. Is there anything terrible about him I'm forgetting? counterfeitsaint posted:As a non book reader (for now, I'll probably read them after this season) I totally agree with you. However, I've gone out of my way not to mention it, because I have no doubt some asshat will come into the thread and post like an entire chapter from one of the later books behind a spoilers tag in response, which has happened several times already in this thread. Like, I get that it's fun to explain things, but still, not every question that you know the answer to needs to be answered. Plus, I like to see show watcher speculate and offer their own opinions and it sucks if you feel discouraged because you see the real answer has already been posted in spoilers.
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Mar 10, 2017 07:16
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WAR CRIME SYNDICAT posted:Alex wears one every time they suit up now, though. maybe he got trained on them when he was in the military.
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Mar 10, 2017 07:16
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Dawes is good you're all just Earther scum.
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Mar 10, 2017 07:23
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Number Ten Cocks posted:Opening an airlock to a ship you just shot with no armor or EVA suits on was really, really dumb. If your ship can fire a precision shot at another ship tens of thousands of miles away and disable its engines without destroying the ship itself, then it also probably has advanced sensors that can tell you whether it is safe to open an airlock to it.
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Mar 10, 2017 07:27
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It would make sense power armor requires some sort of training, and probably custom fitting as well. The fact that a gunship just has spare suits in the first place is kinda weird. Chekovs power armor maybe? Dawes is a compelling dude, but he was still happy to murder Miller is cold blood for digging too much into Julie's situation, so still a bad guy. enraged_camel posted:If your ship can fire a precision shot at another ship tens of thousands of miles away and disable its engines without destroying the ship itself, then it also probably has advanced sensors that can tell you whether it is safe to open an airlock to it. A few kilometers more like. Not 1,000s of miles away.
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Mar 10, 2017 07:28
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counterfeitsaint posted:A few kilometers more like. Not 1,000s of miles away. Don't patronize me!
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Mar 10, 2017 07:28
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counterfeitsaint posted:It would make sense power armor requires some sort of training, and probably custom fitting as well. The fact that a gunship just has spare suits in the first place is kinda weird. Chekovs power armor maybe? I think the book mentions that the Tachi/Rocinante could carry a complement of 6 marines depending on the mission.
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Mar 10, 2017 07:30
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I don't think the suits in the airlock are powered armor, just armored vac suits. They mentioned having the Martian powered armor designed and built for season 2 on twitter.
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Mar 10, 2017 07:31
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uber_stoat posted:I think the book mentions that the Tachi/Rocinante could carry a complement of 6 marines depending on the mission. The Tachi was designed to carry two persons traind in each role, and a few more in addition to that. Like, Naomi does tech and weapons, but in the MCRN, they’d have two people for that (and two alternates). I think the total is at least twelve.
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Mar 10, 2017 07:33
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I hope we get to see the tiny forearm mounted miniguns in action. They looked pretty cool.
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Mar 10, 2017 07:34
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Eiba posted:I think... I think Dawes is a good guy. There are two things that characterize the Belters: being essentially indentured servants to Earth and Mars since they were "other" enough to be called Belters, and the good-of-the-community, measure-twice-cut-once mentality of putting environmental considerations before all else. These two have condensed into a multitude of factions that all call themselves OPA, all hating the Inners to varying degrees--which obviously doesn't help the perception of them. Johnson is trying to legitimize the OPA, using the nukes as a bargaining chip to try and get a seat at the table when it comes to negotiations with Earth and Mars. Dawes wants to unite the Belters as well, but under the banner of independence, without needing to be all buddy-buddy with the Inners. Dawes is the bad guy from the viewer's point of view, because he's working against what Holden and Johnson (who serves as Holden's patron) are standing for. But that's what makes him compelling--the best villains are right.
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Mar 10, 2017 07:34
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Dawes is being disingenuous on the nuke issue. Holden wants nuclear disarmament because nukes are bad. Dawes wants to deny power to his rival.
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Mar 10, 2017 07:41
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404notfound posted:There are two things that characterize the Belters: being essentially indentured servants to Earth and Mars since they were "other" enough to be called Belters, and the good-of-the-community, measure-twice-cut-once mentality of putting environmental considerations before all else. These two have condensed into a multitude of factions that all call themselves OPA, all hating the Inners to varying degrees--which obviously doesn't help the perception of them. It'd be nice if we were all on the same side, but will an Earth corporation ever not exploit whatever resources it can? And will people on Earth ever care enough to rein them in? Will Martian interests ever make concessions to the needs of their terraforming project? The Belt is full of poor vulnerable people who will not be benevolently looked after by the majority of the Inners. It needs to represent its own interests as a matter of basic security for the people living there. Dawes is right and Johnson is naive. Edit: Platystemon posted:Dawes is being disingenuous on the nuke issue. If Dawes just wanted the most personal power he'd champion that option to get grateful faction leaders behind him. But he realized that that option is really dumb because any group could ruin everything for everyone by starting a war. I think he legitimately realized that there was no good way to use the nukes and agreed with the plan to return them for goodwill as the only moderately beneficial course of action. Eiba fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 07:42
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Platystemon posted:Dawes is being disingenuous on the nuke issue. if by "rival" you mean Fred Johnson, it was Fred who first suggested returning the nukes.
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Mar 10, 2017 07:49
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enraged_camel posted:if by "rival" you mean Fred Johnson, it was Fred who first suggested returning the nukes. No he didn’t. All he said was “we have their missiles, and that is our ticket to the table”. Holden is the first to suggest returning the nukes. e: Okay, fine, Fred does murmur “yes” after Holden makes the suggestion.
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Mar 10, 2017 07:57
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I can't imagine anyone gives serious consideration to "Every OPA faction gets a city killer." That's like, the worst possible plan. It justifies just about anything the Inners wants to do to the belt. Certainly Dawes wants to be rid of them to be rid of Fred Johnson, but Johnson's not wrong in wanting to be rid of them too -- he just wants to extract value from them first. I suppose Dawes does too, but he wants his own value extracted first. I think he's sincere about putting most of his questionably-acquired-wealth back into Ceres and the belt. That's how the more organized crime stays in power.
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Mar 10, 2017 08:02
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Fringe taught me to treat Jared Harris characters as villains, and I'll be doing the same here. gently caress Dawes 
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Mar 10, 2017 08:15
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Eiba posted:I think... I think Dawes is a good guy. He left Julie to die as soon as she was no longer useful to him, then tried to murder Miller because the truth about the Scopuli would have been personally damaging to him. His responsibility is to himself and his concept of community extends only to whoever useful to him. He's not a good guy.
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Mar 10, 2017 08:57
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Varam posted:He left Julie to die as soon as she was no longer useful to him, then tried to murder Miller because the truth about the Scopuli would have been personally damaging to him. His responsibility is to himself and his concept of community extends only to whoever useful to him. He's not a good guy. Yeah, and he only "invests his bribes and money into the community" because it gives him good publicity.
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Mar 10, 2017 09:15
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Varam posted:He left Julie to die as soon as she was no longer useful to him, then tried to murder Miller because the truth about the Scopuli would have been personally damaging to him. His responsibility is to himself and his concept of community extends only to whoever useful to him. He's not a good guy. Seriously this. Everyone's ignoring the trail of bodies behind this guy. Good villains are the ones that have a lot of good points and are sympathetic. The problem with good villains is half the audience ends up mistaking them for good guys. See: DS9 counterfeitsaint fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 09:42
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Granted, you can say the problem with Dawes isn't ideals but his methods. Trying to undermine Johnson so flagrantly is always essentially undermining the entire cause since both Johnson (as a spokesman) and Tycho station are both necessary for the OPA cause. Trying to spark a inter-OPA civil war is only going to keep them irrelevant until either Mars or Earth comes out on top and subsequently reoccupies the belt by force. Also, to be honest, Johnson seems more cut out for high-level negotiation with Earth/Mars than Dawes, at least Johnson has a history behind him outside the OPA while everyone outside the belt probably sees Dawes as some petty warlord that throat-cut his way to the top of the OPA.
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Mar 10, 2017 12:02
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counterfeitsaint posted:Seriously this. Everyone's ignoring the trail of body's behind this guy. This makes Clarke an absolute villain in "The 100". Checks out yep.
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Mar 10, 2017 12:10
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Grand Fromage posted:I don't think the suits in the airlock are powered armor, just armored vac suits. They mentioned having the Martian powered armor designed and built for season 2 on twitter. Right, powered armor is supposed to be rare, semi-custom fitted, and used for ground actions or "we don't care how many holes we punch in this ship" boarding actions. Standard navy and light marine duty armor is the armored vac suit. Rocinante shouldn't be carrying powered armor. Platystemon posted:The Tachi was designed to carry two persons traind in each role, and a few more in addition to that. Like, Naomi does tech and weapons, but in the MCRN, they’d have two people for that (and two alternates). Both this and the plus 6 marines comment are right.
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Mar 10, 2017 12:32
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The problem is, book power armor is written to make its wearers 1.5 times taller, 2-3x as strong, and 2-3x faster than show power armor does. In the books, resident-toughguy Amos sees Bobbie in full armor for the very first time and immediately puts his gun down, even before any of the other Roci crew does. When asked why, he makes a quip about how he's been professional muscle his whole life, but Bobbie in her suit is an expert at a game he could never compete in.
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Mar 10, 2017 12:46
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enraged_camel posted:I hope we get to see the tiny forearm mounted miniguns in action. They looked pretty cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r42q6l49Bb4
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Mar 10, 2017 12:53
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What's the harm in dropping sounds going through hard vacuum?
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Mar 10, 2017 13:03
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Will somebody explain to be how what Chrisjen Avasarala did made any difference in the end. I mean the missiles didn't solve anything. - Don't get me wrong. With the information they had it was the best move. It just turned out not to make a difference.
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Mar 10, 2017 13:18
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Jarl posted:Will somebody explain to be how what Chrisjen Avasarala did made any difference in the end. I mean the missiles didn't solve anything. - Don't get me wrong. With the information they had it was the best move. It just turned out not to make a difference. The working theory is the missiles could have further provoked proto-Eros thus jeopardizing Miller's negotiations with Julie.
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Mar 10, 2017 14:04
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Eiba posted:
Absolutely not. Every other person who has a nuke instantly becomes a rival. Johnson said it: "They're good for a lot of things. Deterrence. A bargaining chip." Left unstated: blowing something up and making everyone think someone else did it. So long as it's just Mars and Earth with nukes, it's MAD, it's stable. MAD becomes exponentially less stable for each additional player at the table. Giving them back to Earth maintains the status quo in that regard, he loses nothing. Splitting them up among different factions of the OPA (who no doubt have their own internecine rivalries and grudges, if they didn't they wouldn't be different factions) is the worst thing he could do if he was just interested in power. ZorajitZorajit posted:I think he's sincere about putting most of his questionably-acquired-wealth back into Ceres and the belt. That's how the more organized crime stays in power. Nah, that's only half of it. The more organized crime spreads a tiny fraction of its wealth as the carrot. It also uses the stick of taking anyone who challenges it, kidnapping them and their families, and chopping the families up with chainsaws in front of them. Phanatic fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 16:14
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Blind Rasputin posted:I feel really lovely about improperly identifying Bobby as a buff blond caucasian when I read the books. Sorry about that thread. If it makes you feel any better, I was reading Seveneves around the same time as the second book. Now my mental picture of Bobbie and Tekla are irreparably swapped despite the explicit descriptions of either.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:34
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Isn't Dawes also trying to weaponize the protomolecule? He knew supporting the return of the nukes was the smart play, because it would deny them to Johnson while he was already working on how he could get his hands on something even more powerful.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:51
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I wonder why they're changing so much. Are they cutting the monster/prax/Ganymede or are they mixing things up to add drama for TV and save Ganymede for later in the season
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Mar 10, 2017 16:51
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Oh come on. How hard is it to use spoiler tags.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:54
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Question about timekeeping off-world, since Dawes had a line to the effect of "even our time comes from the inners." Is it established what kind of time folks use? Like, I imagine that Mars keeps its own time, since it has a day/night cycle that's not incompatible with human life. And that official things probably still keep Earth GMT or some equivalent for scheduling purposes. But is there a day/night cycle on Ceres or Tycho, even an artificial one?
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Mar 10, 2017 17:03
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