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Zodijackylite posted:I understand the idea that "faceoff wins" purely as a stat isn't perfectly indicative of gaining possession, though. I think Tyler Dellow had done some work on that along with zone entries shortly before the Oilers bought his silence? If anyone has any links/references related to this stuff, either fancystats or video, I'd love to see them since I find this little aspect of the game fascinating. i think most of his stuff is lost to time, but hes back writing for the athletic on similar topics https://twitter.com/dellowhockey/status/839341527730110465
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Mar 10, 2017 05:17
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If you ice the puck with an empty net, you shouldn't be allowed to put the goalie back in.
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Mar 10, 2017 05:18
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It's definitely better to be good at face offs than bad, and there is definitely a difference between players, for sure. But the point stands, in the grand scheme of the hockey game it's more of a marginal skill, and the benefit of some ace-in-the-whole move or linesman gamesmanship is moot if you can just avoid score-close situations late in games anyway. While we're speaking anecdotally, Boston scored their cup-winning goal over Vancouver off of a "lost" draw, and the assumption that faceoffs automatically mean control/possession is a flaw in these arguments.
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Mar 10, 2017 05:24
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fits posted:i think most of his stuff is lost to time, but hes back writing for the athletic on similar topics Considering a d-zone win usually means a clear, only seeing double the rate seems fairly minor.
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Mar 10, 2017 05:30
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Just got back from the Islanders-Canucks game; It was entertaining enough, but a couple of things stood out: - Sedins don't look like they're even trying. They had 3 shifts where they put some effort into and looked good, but so many bad passes and half-arsed efforts. - Sutter finally trying to be dominant and skates rights into the goalie and gets a goalie interference. - Tryamkin hustling: The kid can actually move pretty fast! - What is a Megna..and what is it's purpose on the ice?
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Mar 10, 2017 07:27
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ImplicitAssembler posted:- Sedins don't look like they're even trying. They had 3 shifts where they put some effort into and looked good, but so many bad passes and half-arsed efforts. They're 36 years old and stuck on a disaster of a team that clearly isn't making the playoffs. At this point I don't blame them. alternatively, maybe management got them drunk too
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Mar 10, 2017 13:25
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Brendan Morrow invited a local TV crew to cover his post career CTE treatment. The video is a rough watch, but a good story on this topic. http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2017/03/09/retired-dallas-stars-captain-battling-brain-injury/
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Mar 10, 2017 13:41
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fits posted:i think most of his stuff is lost to time, but hes back writing for the athletic on similar topics Obviously there are situations where a faceoff is more important, such as the above, but overall the stat is a weak indicator over the course of a game because there are relatively few of those important occasions. Somebody did an analysis of faceoffs a couple years ago and found that they amount to just the same thing as any single battle for puck possession through a game. A battle at the boards for a loose puck has about the same weight on goals scored as the average faceoff. There's value in having a very good face-off guy for the PP/PK empty net zone faceoff, but otherwise it's noise.
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Mar 10, 2017 13:58
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i am the bird posted:Y'all crazy. Blashill sucks and is clearly responsible for failures of player development. Basically every single player has regressed under his watch. That can be a problem of overall roster makeup but it's also a problem of coaching. A bunch of guys, namely Tatar and Nyquist, took steps backward or stagnated in the final season of Noted Good Coach Mike Babcock. It's almost like there's an egomaniacal jerkoff sandbagging the roster for personal glory and nepotism and it's messing up the team from the top down. We can believe that a good coach, that has been great at developing and getting the best out of young players at every level he's coached, suddenly turned into an idiot, or maybe this is the culmination of a long trend of the roster getting more and more expensive while simultaneously getting more and more mediocre that started like 3 years before Blashill was even with the organization. I swear to god if Blashill gets scapegoated for this, we will loving regret it. Who's going to replace him? Are you really ready for the second Dave Lewis era? Because I'm loving not e: Sheahan, Glendening, and Abdelkader haven't regressed, they were never loving good in the first place Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 14:06
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ImplicitAssembler posted:- What is a Megna..and what is it's purpose on the ice? Jayson Megna is just Linden Vey in disguise.
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Mar 10, 2017 14:57
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Blashill's probably not a great coach but let's not pretend he was inheriting greatness and hosed it all up. When he showed up, Detroit was an aging Datsyuk, a couple middling-to-bad goalies, and a headshot-throwing defenseman that the TV crew couldn't stop jacking off over all combined with a bunch of low level grinders and GOOD MICHIGAN BOYS, most of whom range from 3rd line talents to those that should never leave the AHL level, and all of them tied to contracts that even Paul Holmgren wouldn't have offered.
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Mar 10, 2017 15:44
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Anyone that wants an explanation for Nyquist's regression doesn't need to look much farther than his shooting % year over year Tatar's best season came under Babcock, he hasn't been able to shoot at the same rate before or after though, seems like maybe a deployment thing? I think the real question for Detroit is what happened to Dylan Larkin between last year and now
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Mar 10, 2017 16:52
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Sophomore slumps happen, I'm not willing to attribute it to anything more than that. He's also struggled at C and because of the hard on this team has for Abdelkader, he spent like 1/4 of the season playing with Steve Ott. Line juggling has been a huge problem, because this is a middling roster that needs to let youth play and develop but *somebody* has spent the last 3 seasons insisting it was a playoff team and there's no time for development when you're fighting for an 8 seed. Tatar and Nyquist haven't been given reliable top-6 minutes since their breakout year. That was a problem when Babcock was here, it's not the type of thing Blashill did at WMU or in Grand Rapids, and is not something Babs is doing in Toronto currently. So I'll give you 3 guesses what the common thread is there and the first two don't count. Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 17:16
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ThinkTank posted:Jayson Megna is just Linden Vey in disguise. Anyone looking to defend Willie D this season needs to mount a defense of Jayson Megna playing (for several games) on the first line, with the twins.
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Mar 10, 2017 17:18
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JawKnee posted:Anyone looking to defend Willie D this season needs to mount a defense of Jayson Megna playing (for several games) on the first line, with the twins. And a regular turn on the powerplay (including the first unit!) despite having 7pts on the season. The excuse given? He's a right handed shot.
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Mar 10, 2017 17:20
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ThinkTank posted:And a regular turn on the powerplay (including the first unit!) despite having 7pts on the season. The excuse given? He's a right handed shot. To be fair, only approximately 89% of all the people in the world are right-handed.
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Mar 10, 2017 17:29
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JawKnee posted:Anyone looking to defend Willie D this season needs to mount a defense of Jayson Megna playing (for several games) on the first line, with the twins. haha i remember jayson megna. he's on a first line somewhere in the nhl??? wtf
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Mar 10, 2017 17:33
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Pens called up Oskar Sundqvist. Kinda excited to see him. He's done quite well in the AHL this year and looked decent in his call ups last year.
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Mar 10, 2017 17:35
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Slappy Pappy posted:To be fair, only approximately 89% of all the people in the world are right-handed. Jannik Hansen, a player who is also right handed and had 22 goals with the Sedins last year, did not get a turn on the powerplay.
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Mar 10, 2017 17:35
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Slappy Pappy posted:To be fair, only approximately 89% of all the people in the world are right-handed. but only about 40% of nhl hockey players shoot right
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Mar 10, 2017 18:17
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I'm not about to buy into the idea that Holland is telling Blashill to bench AA or Mantha, or that Nyquist and Tatar shouldn't be given first line minutes, or that Larkin shouldn't play center. Blashill has a bad roster to work with, but he's also managing it poorly. DeKeyser isn't a #1 defensemen but seeing him turn into garbage overnight should be concerning, especially when you can't exactly say that he was riding the coattails of Niklas Kronwall. Mrazek has been playing behind a poo poo defense his entire career but has faced two seasons now of being jerked around in favor of Howard, who is objectively worse, and Jared Coreau. The overall team sucks and that is Holland's fault -- and Holland should be fired above all else -- but  if Blashill is a good NHL coach. Plenty of dudes are fine at lower levels and don't bring that performance to the big show. He's had two years and hasn't made a single player better, and that is literally his only job right now because winning isn't in the picture. His zone deployment is awful, his line juggling is awful, his roster management is awful. He's not good, and he's certainly not someone I want to entrust a youth movement to.edit: His treatment of AA and Larkin alone should have Detroit fans worried about what will happen in Mantha's sophomore season, or what will happen with Svechnikov if he gets a shot (lol Holland). i am the bird fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 18:30
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https://twitter.com/MichaelFarber3/status/839471394714963969?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw lmao this take is 3 fire emojis
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Mar 10, 2017 18:38
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lol how many forwards in the league even wear single digit numbers anymore?
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Mar 10, 2017 18:41
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DJExile posted:https://twitter.com/MichaelFarber3/status/839471394714963969?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw Especially since #9 is retired for NYI, Clark Gillies wore it. And Dennis Seidenberg is wearing #4.
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Mar 10, 2017 18:50
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i am the bird posted:He's had two years and hasn't made a single player better, and that is literally his only job right now because winning isn't in the picture. says armchair goon in direct opposition of the guy's actual boss
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Mar 10, 2017 18:57
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Pornographic Memory posted:but only about 40% of nhl hockey players shoot right This is a fun little quirk with hockey. All countries except the US hold their dominant hand at the top of the stick. So if you're right handed, then you have a left handed shot. It's really only in the US where you run into so many right handed shots.
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Mar 10, 2017 19:04
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It is really much better to hold the top of the stick with your dominant hand but I think baseball ruins that for America. I got lucky in that I started batting the wrong way so when I picked up a hockey stick I was holding it the God-fearing Canadian way
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Mar 10, 2017 19:09
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The wings are in a real poo poo chicken or dick egg situation now. Sure the roster is poo poo which is Hollands fault but Blashill benching good young players while Ericsson and Kronwall are still suiting up day in day out is insane (when healthy). Unrelated but I hate how everyone is so quick to say DDK isn't a real top pairing player but who else can they realistically play in his spot. This isn't like Abby being on the top line for no reason the last few years, there just isnt any better options now.
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Mar 10, 2017 19:09
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Teemu Pokemon posted:says armchair goon in direct opposition of the guy's actual boss The post-2013 roster v. the pre-2013 roster are very different in terms of Holland's 'favor the vets' strategy. Playing your best players to maintain The Streak and making sure young players develop so we can maintain The Streak aren't really at opposition on this current roster. We really actually haven't seen old useless vets being given more in-game ice time priority over younger guys (except for in the case of AA, who has been consistently mismanaged and given poo poo publicly by Blashill). The benchings are a completely different story about how young guys need to sit down to learn, which is loving stupid. That's Blashill's poo poo, and you can see it in the way he talks about his young players -- see: Mantha's current benching, or every benching of AA, or every critique of the three rotating young defensemen this season. The old critique of Holland's interference doesn't apply very well these days. He's transcended into a new form of awful. Blashill bad. Holland worse. Fire them both. i am the bird fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 19:13
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dadjokes posted:Blashill benching good young players while Ericsson and Kronwall are still suiting up day in day out is insane (when healthy). Sunken cost fallacy. Even the best coaches fall into this trap. The team has 10 million reasons for those guys to suit up every night and I'm not going to crucify a coach for that until he's actually been given an opportunity to run a team in his image without his GM breathing down his neck whispering streaaaak in his ear. Blashill very well may be a poo poo coach, but he's got an incredible track record with young players, so much so that it's actually baffling what's currently going on and all circumstantial evidence alludes to there being another factor in play here. This poo poo sandwich is 100% Ken Holland's fault, and Blashill does at least deserve a stay of execution to prove if he's complicit. Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 19:15
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i am the bird posted:The post-2013 roster v. the pre-2013 roster are very different in terms of Holland's 'favor the vets' strategy. Playing your best players to maintain The Streak and making sure young players develop so we can maintain The Streak aren't really at opposition on this current roster. THEN WHY THE gently caress DID HE SIGN STEVE OTT Seriously, this logic does not follow. Mantha and AA had inside tracks to opening day roster spots and Holland was on record saying they needed to earn it. Blashill didn't say that, Blashill didn't sign Ott, Blashill didn't drone on about Zetterberg's "veteran good will" Ken Holland is pulling the puppet strings, and gently caress me if I'd like to give Blashill maybe a month of a fresh season to see if he could be a real boy Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 19:17
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bewbies posted:It is really much better to hold the top of the stick with your dominant hand but I think baseball ruins that for America. I got lucky in that I started batting the wrong way so when I picked up a hockey stick I was holding it the God-fearing Canadian way It comes down to how you play, what stick handling situations are more important to you, and how comfortable you are offhand. Bottom line is that handedness doesn't really matter for hockey and it's more personal preference. It's not a hard and fast rule of if you're right hand dominant you should be shooting left and vice versa. Most (I think?) right hand dominant players shoot left because when they grab and use the stick with one hand, it's instinctively their dominant hand. vvv See I never have an issue with my stick just in my left hand, feels about the same as if it were just in my right hand. However trying to stick handle with my dominant hand on the butt and my offhand on the shaft completely throws off my coordination. 
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Mar 10, 2017 19:29
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^^^ You must have a very coordinated and strong non-dominant hand if you can move your stick as quickly, accurately, and comfortably one-handed as you can when holding it in your dominant hand It absolutely does matter from a defensive stand point, this coming from a righty who shoots right and when I'm on defense I find myself wanting to switch hands because I might as well have a riding crop in my left hand Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 19:33
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I can't find the study now, but handedness in hockey was closely linked with the age at which a kid first started playing the sport. The younger you are, the more likely you are to put your dominant hand on top of the stick. Wait a few years and it starts to even out as influences such as batting and golfing handedness start getting ingrained. In general Canadian and European kids start playing hockey at a younger age than American ones and are therefore more likely to shoot left. It's also a cultural thing to a certain extent. Russian players were almost exclusively left handed throughout their heyday, but right handedness has crept in over the years to the point where the best Russian player of all time is a right handed shot, something that would've been inconceivable even 25 years ago. e: The original report seems to be gone but here's a reference to it in the NYT. quote:The Canadian journalist and author Bruce Dowbiggin noted the Canadian-American handedness split in his 2001 book, “The Stick: A History, a Celebration, an Elegy.” On Dowbiggin’s Web site, a reader named Kent Mayhew suggested the difference may have to do with how old a player is when he first picks up a hockey stick. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/sports/olympics/16lefty.html ThinkTank fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 19:40
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I think the red wings are not cool because they took Frans Nielsen and are a really bad team so they are currently ruining him and wasting the rest of his career Free the Frans
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Mar 10, 2017 19:48
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I don't think any Leafs fan has a problem with the minutes or opportunity being given to the Leafs young players. The guys that are on the fringes are all marginal players to begin with, and while we'll split hairs over them all day long it's outright false to say that Babcock isn't giving young guys opportunity.
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Mar 10, 2017 19:51
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DJExile posted:They're 36 years old and stuck on a disaster of a team that clearly isn't making the playoffs. At this point I don't blame them. Yeah, perhaps. But maybe if they'd tried a bit harder, the team might actually have made the playoffs. (Not that it would necessarily have been a good thing). I've gotten the gist of their performance level on TV, but it was real obvious watching it live. Skating up ice at half speed and the Islanders easily caught up, lifting his stick and taking the puck. Trying to pass through 3 Islanders in the defensive zone for no reason whatsoever. Yeah, they've been stuck with a dud line mate most of the season, but I also think that their lack of effort has to do with the lack of production.
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Mar 10, 2017 19:59
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ThinkTank posted:I can't find the study now, but handedness in hockey was closely linked with the age at which a kid first started playing the sport. The younger you are, the more likely you are to put your dominant hand on top of the stick. Wait a few years and it starts to even out as influences such as batting and golfing handedness start getting ingrained. In general Canadian and European kids start playing hockey at a younger age than American ones and are therefore more likely to shoot left. Every time the handedness thing comes up I think of Mario and how he's a righty who shoots right and I'm like well either there's not all that much to that or maybe Lemieux would have been even more terrifyingly good if he shot left instead. Also think it's not entirely unlikely that some of the righties that shoot right have harder shots because of the dominant hand being on the bottom but who knows.
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Mar 10, 2017 20:00
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Ginette Reno posted:Every time the handedness thing comes up I think of Mario and how he's a righty who shoots right and I'm like well either there's not all that much to that or maybe Lemieux would have been even more terrifyingly good if he shot left instead. I think it has more to do with control than power, however people will argue that your top hand is more important for control than your bottom hand or vice versa. I think they're about equally important overall. Sid is right handed but shoots left, Ovie is right handed but shoots right. Sid has won 2 cups, Ovie has won 0 cups. Ergo you're poo poo if you don't shoot opposite of your handedness. QED
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Mar 10, 2017 20:14
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baseball and hockey comparisons are stupid but also probably pretty close because you don't shoot the puck with your dominant hand only and you dont catch the ball with your dominant hand
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