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Gammatron 64 posted:I heard that Orci and Kurtzman are going to be involved with Discovery. I hope that isn't true, because those guys are like pros at ruining everything I love and hold dear. Orci and Kurtzman stopped working together several years ago. Kurtzman co-created Discovery with Bryan Fuller and has an executive producer credit but is not the day-to-day showrunner. Orci's involvement with Trek ended in December of 2014.
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Mar 10, 2017 00:40
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I like that O'Brien is every single Irish stereotype. "Oh I've lived in Ireland me whole life and my father and his father, all the way back to me great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather King Leprechaun Shamrock Jameson O'Brien who fought the damned English" Next week. "A strike! I'm a union man back to me great-great-great grandfather Sean Blacklung O'Brien who fought in the Pennsylvania coal strikes".
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Mar 10, 2017 01:44
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Weird request, but did anyone get the TNG Interactive Tech Manual CD that came with the TNG Season 2 DVD Box Set? (It was an updated version of the original that was changed to QT4/32-bit) I wanna grab some data files from the CD. For... nerd project reasons.
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Mar 10, 2017 01:46
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The Bloop posted:But a progressive. https://twitter.com/SirPatStew/status/839604439094710272
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Mar 10, 2017 02:52
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drat, Sir Pat Stu is JACKED.
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Mar 10, 2017 02:58
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I just like, wanna make a sort of general post here about Gene Coon, and whether everyone here is more or less on the same page about him being probably the real and true genius that made TOS *truly great*. I guess maybe not everyone would agree with THAT statement, but I kinda hope that most people at least appreciate how incredibly awesome and under-appreciated he is in the canon of the show. When I was still only a little bit familiar with TOS on my first or second time through the episodes, I noticed that there was basically a point about midway through the first season, where the show REALLY found its stride. The balance between Kirk, Spock and McCoy (as well as all the great banter and chemistry between those three) really came into focus and began to form the heart of the show, and just episode after episode after episode (especially when you go by production order and throw out The Alternative Factor) was a stone-cold classic. And this more or less continued through the second season - though things got a *little* bumpier and the darker episodes were a bit more dark (The Apple. The Doomsday Machine) and the sillier episodes a little more silly (I, Mudd, The Trouble with Tribbles) but overall it remained pretty darn good = up to a point, then there's a sort of hazy line (which is much more clear in the production order) where the intentional silliness is put to a stop and unintentional silliness (Gamesters of Triskelion, Return to Tomorrow) begins to take over. Anyway, I eventually learned that that one period from season 1 into season 2 where a huge amount of classic/awesome episodes came from was the period when Gene Coon was essentially in charge of the operation, and based on all descriptions he seemed like a pretty fantastic and awesome guy, who (in my opinion) had a much clearer and more coherent philosophy and view of things than Roddenberry. Episodes like "Arena" and "Errand of Mercy" are really great examples of classic Gene Coon, reiterating a point he liked to make - mankind overcoming his more base instincts to kill and give in to a more animalistic side, and instead choosing (or being forced) to be more civilized, instead. It even comes up in the best script he did for Season 3 after he was "fired" (he wrote under the pseudonym Lee Cronin(, Spectre of the Gun. In the end of that episode, just like Arena, Kirk chooses not to kill his helpless enemy who has done nothing but try to kill him, and thereby proves himself to a strange alien creature both times (A teenage twink from a West Hollywood drag show in one episode, and a bunch of neon polygons in the other). Anyway - it just seems to me like he's responsible for a great deal of what Trek really really great, and without fail nearly all my favorite episodes are contained within the run where was producing (which is, on the production schedule, from Miri in season 1 through to Bread and Circuses in Season 2). I'm probably overstating how badass he is, it just seems like his version of Trek was so much drat smarter and funnier and more self-aware than Roddenberry's own personal efforts - not to knock Roddenberry! I think he did a ton of fantastic and great episodes in seasons 1 and 2 both. And Coon's not quite perfect, I mean, he freakin' wrote 'Spock's Brain'. Although I personally think that episode owns so I personally don't view it as any sort of contradiction, though I'm pretty sure some others do.
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Mar 10, 2017 03:32
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So what you're saying Gene Coon is the Bill Finger to Gene Roddenberry's Bob Kane?
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Mar 10, 2017 03:39
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kaworu posted:I just like, wanna make a sort of general post here about Gene Coon, and whether everyone here is more or less on the same page about him being probably the real and true genius that made TOS *truly great*. I guess maybe not everyone would agree with THAT statement, but I kinda hope that most people at least appreciate how incredibly awesome and under-appreciated he is in the canon of the show. I can't remember exactly what The Fifty-Year Mission has to say as far as timing, but yes Gene Coon is the reason the show wasn't the drizzling shits. Roddenberry fought tooth and nail to keep out stuff like The Trouble With Tribbles by the way.
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Mar 10, 2017 03:54
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twistedmentat posted:So what you're saying Gene Coon is the Bill Finger to Gene Roddenberry's Bob Kane? Coon wasn't buried in the sands of time like Finger was. Roddenberry just treated him like poo poo because he was jealous of how quickly Coon could come up with ideas and fixes on scripts.
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Mar 10, 2017 04:05
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dont even fink about it posted:I can't remember exactly what The Fifty-Year Mission has to say as far as timing, but yes Gene Coon is the reason the show wasn't the drizzling shits. Roddenberry fought tooth and nail to keep out stuff like The Trouble With Tribbles by the way. Oh I know! Coon was gone the episode after 'Tribbles' (Bread and Circuses which is an awesome and legendary episode in and itself wherein he and Roddenberry, just returning from a failed Robin Hood series attempt, clashed) and every episode produced after that in Season 2 is generally humorless except in that semi-creepy Roddenberry way (By Any Other Name is a good example of Roddenberry trying to funny and both succeeding and failing I think). But yeah I think a big reason that Coon never got anywhere *near* the recognition as Roddenberry was basically because Coon died in 1973 before the show really took off (before all the big movie and syndication money started paying off) at the fairly young age of 49 (chain smoker of cigarillos yikes) and I suppose his wife and/or family was content to let Roddenberry be "The Great Bird of the Galaxy", or whatever the case nobody really petitioned for his legacy in any real way besides fans long after the fact, as far as I know. I know that Nimoy wrote very positively about him in his first autobiography. kaworu fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 04:06
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kaworu posted:But yeah I think a big reason that Coon never got anywhere *near* the recognition as Roddenberry was basically because Coon died in 1973 before the show really took off (before all the big movie and syndication money started paying off) at a very young age (chain smoker of cigarillos yikes) and I suppose his wife and/or family was content to let Roddenberry be "The Great Bird of the Galaxy" or whatever. I know that Nimoy wrote very positively about him in his first autobiography. Coon also really, really didn't want the attention, and was content to live in the background. Even his first wife never had a bad word to say about him -- after he re-encountered his childhood sweetheart, Coon very quietly divorced his wife and basically gave her everything, as he knew they'd both been miserable for years, and then spent his last few years with Jackie Coon.
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Mar 10, 2017 04:12
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Timby posted:Coon wasn't buried in the sands of time like Finger was. Roddenberry just treated him like poo poo because he was jealous of how quickly Coon could come up with ideas and fixes on scripts. Reading all of the interviews and going through the 50 Year Mission books, it's clear that Roddenberry was good at 'big ideas' but not good at actually executing them. So it fell to other people to make TOS/TNG successful when it was obvious that Gene's ideas as stated would make for incredibly stale TV. You see that with people like Coon, Michael Piller, and Rick Berman having to keep Gene from holding the shows back from their true potential. And yes Coon's never going to get the recognition he truly deserves since he was long dead by the time ST became what it did.
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Mar 10, 2017 04:13
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Although nobody could have saved Shore Leave from being an hilariously incoherent mess. I still wonder what happened to that couple hit by the strafing run - I guess they died for real? I also sometimes wonder if Spock's Brain isn't a comedy script accidentally played 100% straight. It's probably funnier and better that way, regardless.
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Mar 10, 2017 04:26
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kaworu posted:Although nobody could have saved Shore Leave from being an hilariously incoherent mess. I still wonder what happened to that couple hit by the strafing run - I guess they died for real? Spock's Brain is a comedy script played as such
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Mar 10, 2017 04:33
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Timby posted:Orci and Kurtzman stopped working together several years ago. Kurtzman co-created Discovery with Bryan Fuller and has an executive producer credit but is not the day-to-day showrunner. Thank God. Good riddance.
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Mar 10, 2017 05:09
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FlamingLiberal posted:I think it came down to Coon being a far superior writer than Roddenberry could ever be on his best day, and the impression I get is that Coon basically saved the show at times where it could have fallen on its face and never recovered. That's probably also why TNG was an writer slaughterhouse in the first couple seasons as Gene smothered tons of them in their proverbial cribs if he thought they were not following his vision or worse yet, better than he was. Bet he didn't want another Gene Coon showing him up.
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Mar 10, 2017 05:14
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VitalSigns posted:I like that O'Brien is every single Irish stereotype. Except he drinks scotch, instead of proper Irish whiskey.
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Mar 10, 2017 12:20
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skooma512 posted:That's probably also why TNG was an writer slaughterhouse in the first couple seasons as Gene smothered tons of them in their proverbial cribs if he thought they were not following his vision or worse yet, better than he was. Bet he didn't want another Gene Coon showing him up. Yeah, at this time Roddenberry bought into his own legend. Similar to George Lucas, his work was at his best when others took his ideas and polished them. Hell TNG was the dirzzling shits till season 3 with only a few bright spots. Hell, TNG would not exist without Harv Bennett and Nicolas Meyer making the Trek movies after TMP what they were. FlamingLiberal posted:I think it came down to Coon being a far superior writer than Roddenberry could ever be on his best day, and the impression I get is that Coon basically saved the show at times where it could have fallen on its face and never recovered. Mentioning Rick Berman is funny because I feel he helped hold back Voyager from it's full potential.
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Mar 10, 2017 13:11
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wins.
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Beachcomber posted:Except he drinks scotch, instead of proper Irish whiskey. Star Trek has been stealth scotch advertising for fifty years, showing it as the only Earth Drink that can hold its own against Romulan ale, Aldebran whiskey ("ess grreeeen!"), kanaar, etc.
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Mar 10, 2017 13:21
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PassTheRemote posted:Yeah, at this time Roddenberry bought into his own legend. Similar to George Lucas, his work was at his best when others took his ideas and polished them. Hell TNG was the dirzzling shits till season 3 with only a few bright spots. Hell, TNG would not exist without Harv Bennett and Nicolas Meyer making the Trek movies after TMP what they were.
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Mar 10, 2017 13:55
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FlamingLiberal posted:I agree, but with TNG it seems pretty much confirmed that Berman was able to get Gene to play ball on some episodes that otherwise were going to be vetoed Not to mention Patrick Stewart.
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Mar 10, 2017 14:00
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After The War posted:Star Trek has been stealth scotch advertising for fifty years, showing it as the only Earth Drink that can hold its own against Romulan ale, Aldebran whiskey ("ess grreeeen!"), kanaar, etc. Dr Philip 'Have you tried drinking your problems away?' Boyce 
The_Doctor fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 14:17
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That moment where you prepare your wife for Space Hippies, but then realize "Journey To Babel" is not "The Way To Eden". It's weird how Sarek is exactly the same actor who played a Romulan last season. It's not like when Jeffrey Combs plays a million different roles, because it's literally the same makeup.VitalSigns posted:I like that O'Brien is every single Irish stereotype. What I'm finding in my TOS run is that Star Trek and Irishness are inherently, mysteriously linked. At least as far back as "The Naked Time", where Lieutenant O'Reilly gets space drunk and starts singing Irish drinking songs. Followed by Harry Mudd's strangely Irish-accented space-pimp persona.
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Mar 10, 2017 14:29
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Sir Lemming posted:That moment where you prepare your wife for Space Hippies, but then realize "Journey To Babel" is not "The Way To Eden". It's weird how Sarek is exactly the same actor who played a Romulan last season. It's not like when Jeffrey Combs plays a million different roles, because it's literally the same makeup. Don't forget that lovable scamp Finnegan. He was such a prankster!
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Mar 10, 2017 14:31
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As an Irishman who loves TNG, the episode with the...Bringlodi causes me so much anguish. Colm Meaney is a national treasure though, with or without ST
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Mar 10, 2017 14:35
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There also Far Haven. A holodeck program that is nothing but Irish stereotypes.
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Mar 10, 2017 15:20
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twistedmentat posted:There also Far Haven. A holodeck program that is nothing but Irish stereotypes. That's not even getting into the whole 'Janeway falls for a hologram' subplot
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Mar 10, 2017 15:38
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remusclaw posted:Don't forget that lovable scamp Finnegan. He was such a prankster! Thanks, I knew I was forgetting an obvious one.
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Mar 10, 2017 15:43
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Ok so I kinda knew what was going to happen in the last episode of Enterprise through seeing people talking about it but holy poo poo what the hell were they thinking?
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Mar 10, 2017 18:25
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I ditched Enterprise halfway through the first season during its original run, but I tuned in for the finale. Yeah. I was a massive "gently caress you" to Enterprise (which was bad, but didn't deserve to go out like that), and it didn't do any favors to TNG, either.
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Mar 10, 2017 18:47
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Pwnstar posted:Ok so I kinda knew what was going to happen in the last episode of Enterprise through seeing people talking about it but holy poo poo what the hell were they thinking? I think it was something along these lines: "I know! Instead of the proper finale episode that all the fans are wanting to see, let's have not very much Enterprise stuff happen at all, and instead set the whole thing during a middling-to-decent TNG episode that never really had a hole in it that needed filling! I'm sure no one will notice that Riker and Troi have aged a bit. Oh, and since it's the end of the series, we can kill off a major character for literally no reason, and not leave much time for any of the other characters to even react to that. The fans won't mind. And hey, how about we spend the episode building up this amazing speech that Archer gives, and then we end the episode right before he actually gives it, and just leave everyone with blue balls? Yeah, this'll be an amazing show. One for the history books. The fans will love it."
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Mar 10, 2017 19:07
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This thread needs more dog https://twitter.com/SirPatStew/status/840263223492325376
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Mar 10, 2017 19:32
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I'm just going to say it. I hope that the pitbull doesn't kill him. I know he is doing a nice thing and that it probably won't happen, but I don't want to read the headline "Stat Trek actor mauled by pitbull" unless it is about Wil Wheaton.
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Mar 10, 2017 19:42
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Do we have any idea the dog has some violent history or something?
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Mar 10, 2017 19:44
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I'm probably being too charitable, but I think in their own misguided way they were trying to give Enterprise the "blessing" of the TNG cast and solidify its place in the Star Trek canon. (Obviously the TOS cast couldn't realistically have been involved, and TNG is the next most popular.) The show always felt different. Which was exactly what the franchise needed, but... Well, y'know.
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Mar 10, 2017 19:48
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Rick Berman is absolutely obsessed with recapturing TNG, knowing the show was canceled and it would never "get there" the finale was his desperate attempt to just make the show literally TNG.
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Mar 10, 2017 19:49
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Yeah, I get the impression that TNG made Berman's career and after a while he went from being just some producer the studio brought in to Mr. Star Trek, upholder of Gene's Vision. It's hard to resist the temptation to recapture your glory days, even if you should really know it's impossible.
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Mar 10, 2017 20:35
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Pwnstar posted:Ok so I kinda knew what was going to happen in the last episode of Enterprise through seeing people talking about it but holy poo poo what the hell were they thinking? They deny it now, and I mean vehemently deny it, but Berman and Braga wrote These Are The Voyages... about halfway through the third season, when the Xindi arc wasn't delivering the ratings they'd promised to Paramount and they were expecting to be canceled. Figuring (correctly) that Enterprise would be the last Trek show on TV for a while, they wrote the episode as a "valentine to the fans," basically putting a capstone on everything. Then they found out that a fourth season had been ordered albeit with a smaller budget, so, Roddenberry-style, they stepped back and let Manny Coto take over the show, and gave him Storm Front Part 1 with Space Nazis, basically saying, "Here. You figure out how to open the next season." This is also why Coto wrote Terra Prime as the "real" finale. He knew that the These Are The Voyages... script existed and he firmly believed that Berman would come in and insist it be made as the series finale. He wasn't wrong.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:03
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Trip report: DS9 season 1, episode 5 "Captive Pursuit" And all of a sudden we're back to "this is so bad, you guys." This is like a SyFy cheap knockoff of TNG's "The Hunted" with about 1/100 of the gravitas and drama.
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Mar 11, 2017 03:59
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I liked the part where Archer raises his glass and says "here's to the The Next Generation"
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Mar 11, 2017 04:08
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