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MinibarMatchman posted:looking at the Zelda/Nier/persona 5 reviews earlier I was remembering the old Phil Fish quote about how Japanese games suck, then watched the video again and was surprised that when he describes his ideal Zelda game, it's pretty much what BOTW became https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKUGwlFJAHw Jesus, what bunch of arseholes
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Mar 10, 2017 22:47
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Macaluso posted:Rise of the Tomb Raider completion question: Nah there's a bunch more story after that but I don't remember if it takes you through that area again, I don't think so though.
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Mar 10, 2017 22:48
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oddium posted:oh yeah for sure. am i going to have to use magnesis to get this ball in the hole, or stasis on this moving object Sure, some of the shrines are obvious and straightforward, but other ones get pretty clever and fun. bloodychill posted:I haven't played long enough to get that feeling with the combat yet. It's really fun to explore but yeah, after I play for a few hours it's really easy to look at something and go "this could have been a lot better if they tweaked [this element of the game] a little." I'm definitely understanding oddium and hurthling's complaints about the game. I think it's a game that is significantly better than the sum of its parts, perhaps entirely because its world design means getting around and exploring are both fun and rewarding. In a lot of open world games, I feel like traveling around to places I can't fast travel to yet is me waiting to play the game, but in Zelda, I think they do a good job of making that travel an important and enjoyable part of the game. It's good stuff. It has some big flaws, like the combat balance and a lot of technical aspects, plus I think its main dungeons are disappointing. But I'd still call it one of the best open world games ever made and probably my favorite Zelda game just because I've never played a game that made me this excited to just go and explore for the hell of it, knowing I'm going to find something fun on the way (and I'm not going to just chase an icon on my map to find it, either).
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Mar 10, 2017 22:51
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Ethanol said its the 3rd best zelda, 1st best when not playing it. It was maybe the first good ethanol post
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Mar 10, 2017 22:55
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Sakurazuka posted:Jesus, what bunch of arseholes I wonder if Phil Fish is still an rear end in a top hat dipshit fucker. He was last time we saw him but he has since removed his presence from the internet, but I can't help but wonder if he like snipes at his toaster when the toast pops up while he's making breakfast or his mom when she tells him he should shave his sideburns.
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Mar 10, 2017 22:58
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Also re: BotW's stamina: sprinting drains it too quickly, swimming shouldn't drain it at all unless you do your swim-dash (especially because it isn't even a limiter for the map boundaries, since you can just hop across Cryonis ice pillars as long as you want), climbing is fine. That's my hot take.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:01
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I'm looking forward to rolling my eyes until they fall out of my skull when people say zelda is bad two weeks from now
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Mar 10, 2017 23:02
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that sounds good yeah. i don't mind stamina as a limiter, especially after you get your second ring
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Mar 10, 2017 23:02
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Help Im Alive posted:I'm looking forward to rolling my eyes until they fall out of my skull when people say zelda is bad two weeks from now I don't need to wait 2 weeks to say that! edit: Only people who have actually played it need to wait 2 weeks to say that
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Mar 10, 2017 23:04
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Help Im Alive posted:I'm looking forward to rolling my eyes until they fall out of my skull when people say zelda is bad two weeks from now I'm happy to see we haven't seen the expected backlash against goon-loved game Horizon yet, so maybe Zelda will escape it for longer than usual, too.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:04
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I was doing some puzzle in zelda where you put an orb into a hole but I was on top of a small plateau near the ocean and had to use stasis to move a rock so I could put the orb in the hole and when I flicked the rock it nicked the orb and shot it out into the ocean.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:05
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I think Stamina is fine as is and if anything probably could stand to be a bit more limiting as its' pretty rare to run out with 1 or 2 upgrades unless you're trying to brute force climbing instead of being smart. Swimming and sprinting both have other lower-stamina options which encourage you to think about how you're going to approach things rather than just mash the forward button until you can't. If anything I think BotW plays better with base stamina because you're forced to consider how to climb and you can get a feel for the strong level design instead.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:05
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CJacobs posted:I don't need to wait 2 weeks to say that! 
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Mar 10, 2017 23:07
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I am definitely going to pick up zeldo when I eventually get a WiiU for cheap, I hope it drops in price soon.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:08
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ImpAtom posted:I think Stamina is fine as is and if anything probably could stand to be a bit more limiting as its' pretty rare to run out with 1 or 2 upgrades unless you're trying to brute force climbing instead of being smart. Swimming and sprinting both have other lower-stamina options which encourage you to think about how you're going to approach things rather than just mash the forward button until you can't. If anything I think BotW plays better with base stamina because you're forced to consider how to climb and you can get a feel for the strong level design instead. I think the climbing is fine exactly as it is (though it could do with rain being less punishing). Swimming really doesn't need to cost stamina, especially not as much as it does. Make it cost stamina to swim-dash or to swim against a current, but not normal swimming, and you'd accomplish a similar goal. I think sprinting drains it too quickly but it also doesn't bother me that much because Link moves at a decent speed without sprinting. I don't feel like I have to sprint to move at satisfying speed, so its stamina cost isn't a huge deal for me.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:08
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the number one change i would make to the durability system would be make the Champion weapons unbreakable. the rest could stay exactly the same really if that were the case
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Mar 10, 2017 23:08
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As a person who will never be able to play Zelda because of money concerns, I'm happy to hear that it's a piece of trash and Nintendo's biggest disappointment yet
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Mar 10, 2017 23:09
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Jay Rust posted:As a person who will never be able to play Zelda because of money concerns, I'm happy to hear that it's a piece of trash and Nintendo's biggest disappointment yet I heard it through the grapevine that Nintendo is doomed and is going to go under any day now so you won't have to deal with that much longer!
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Mar 10, 2017 23:12
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oddium posted:the number one change i would make to the durability system would be make the Champion weapons unbreakable. the rest could stay exactly the same really if that were the case As much as I'd like to agree, I think making the Champion weapons unbreakable would invalidate the game's weapon-scavenging system almost entirely unless the Champion weapons were also much weaker than they are now. Being able to reforge them is a good middle-ground, I think, though I'd rather it be more that you're repairing them because it feels weird to break an ancient heirloom and then make a replica like it's totally fine  I found the durability system started making more sense when I started thinking of weapons like guns in Halo or something. Like, I can only carry two guns at a time in Halo, and if enemies stop dropping ammo for the gun I like to use, I eventually have to ditch it for one of their weapons and keep going. As long as I think of Breath of the Wild's weapons like that it started to get a lot less frustrating.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:13
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MinibarMatchman posted:looking at the Zelda/Nier/persona 5 reviews earlier I was remembering the old Phil Fish quote about how Japanese games suck, then watched the video again and was surprised that when he describes his ideal Zelda game, it's pretty much what BOTW became https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKUGwlFJAHw lol
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Mar 10, 2017 23:13
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Harrow posted:As much as I'd like to agree, I think making the Champion weapons unbreakable would invalidate the game's weapon-scavenging system almost entirely unless the Champion weapons were also much weaker than they are now. Being able to reforge them is a good middle-ground, I think, though I'd rather it be more that you're repairing them because it feels weird to break an ancient heirloom and then make a replica like it's totally fine Yeah, I think the durability system works here because combat is, rather than the focus, something you consider and you have plenty of options for how to approach things or even avoid fighting all together. Getting into a fight feels meaningful if just because it actually means you have to consume resources (or use your non-resource-limited weapons like the bombs). It sucks in something like Dark Souls where it adds nothing to the game but BotW uses it really well.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:16
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Macaluso posted:Rise of the Tomb Raider completion question: There's an entire other major area that's going to open up shortly after that sequence. Your final campfire save before the last boss literally has a pop-up message saying THIS IS THE POINT OF NO RETURN and even then you can go back and 100% everything once the game is finished. E: I had to just google some of the cache locations to 100% the entire game because some of them are tricky to find.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:17
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Lurdiak posted:He starts with a special move that's a dashing straight that sends people flying, plus more options when grabbing people. For a second I thought this was continuing the "kid gets pulled by its arm" discussion and I was like "whoa that sounds pretty hardcore"
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Mar 10, 2017 23:26
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, I think the durability system works here because combat is, rather than the focus, something you consider and you have plenty of options for how to approach things or even avoid fighting all together. Getting into a fight feels meaningful if just because it actually means you have to consume resources (or use your non-resource-limited weapons like the bombs). It sucks in something like Dark Souls where it adds nothing to the game but BotW uses it really well. the combat in botw is nowhere near complex enough to support this and the fact that there's weapons everywhere only hurts it more. you equip your favorite weapon type (sword for shield, lance for speed, axe for power) and power through. elemental weapons are the only time this really comes into play
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Mar 10, 2017 23:26
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Harrow posted:As much as I'd like to agree, I think making the Champion weapons unbreakable would invalidate the game's weapon-scavenging system almost entirely unless the Champion weapons were also much weaker than they are now. Being able to reforge them is a good middle-ground, I think, though I'd rather it be more that you're repairing them because it feels weird to break an ancient heirloom and then make a replica like it's totally fine The durability system just needs tweaking. Unbreakable weapons that are middling in power and require some neat quest to get would be a nice addition. The throwing spear being ironically a great non-thrown weapon is really  And yeah, their ubiquity kind it makes it feels like "eh what's the point though"
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Mar 10, 2017 23:27
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oddium posted:the combat in botw is nowhere near complex enough to support this and the fact that there's weapons everywhere only hurts it more. you equip your favorite weapon type (sword for shield, lance for speed, axe for power) and power through. elemental weapons are the only time this really comes into play It's slightly complicated by the game's occasional "gear check" moments. Strong weapons are a rare commodity for a while, and fighting a third-tier moblin with like 300 HP using a weak sword is a slog, but doing so with a 40-attack Guardian Sword++ is no problem. For a while, the resource management comes in when you have to decide if an enemy is worth the durability of your strong weapons, and running into a strong enemy with no strong weapons leaves you scrambling (or just taking forever to kill it). That said, I've also said in this thread and the main BotW one that I think attack/defense have way too big of a range and it makes damage/health disparities way too spiky both for players and enemies, so I'm also not a huge fan of the "gear check" enemies you can sometimes run into. And eventually you can farm Major Tests of Strength and come out with two more weapons than you broke so even the resource management part falls apart eventually. bloodychill posted:The durability system just needs tweaking. Unbreakable weapons that are middling in power and require some neat quest to get would be a nice addition. The throwing spear being ironically a great non-thrown weapon is really One of those does exist.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:29
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oddium posted:the combat in botw is nowhere near complex enough to support this and the fact that there's weapons everywhere only hurts it more. you equip your favorite weapon type (sword for shield, lance for speed, axe for power) and power through. elemental weapons are the only time this really comes into play Yes, weapons are everywhere, but not every weapon is created equal and even if the game isn't actually hard to enough to punish you severely for it there's a genuine push to use minimal resources wherever possible while still encouraging you to actually break weapons for the benefits. It's not a ~super hardcore game~ but its also a game aimed at fairly casual players and does a good job of making meaningful resource usage for a crowd who normally doesn't go in for that.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:31
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I think the main Zelda backlash will be "why did so many people perfect score this, it is not a perfect game, and that messed with expectations." The technical problems alone bring it down.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:32
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yeah thinking about it i cared a lot more about weapons at the beginning of the game. i can't pinpoint when i had 14 30+ weapons all the time but that was probably when i started to see the durability system as useless more than anything
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Mar 10, 2017 23:32
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bloodychill posted:I think the main Zelda backlash will be "why did so many people perfect score this, it is not a perfect game, and that messed with expectations." The technical problems alone bring it down. Anyone who is stupid enough to think a perfect score means a perfect game probably has trouble figuring out that they should stop trying to breathe underwater.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:33
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bloodychill posted:I think the main Zelda backlash will be "why did so many people perfect score this, it is not a perfect game, and that messed with expectations." The technical problems alone bring it down. It's more or less impossible for people who grew up playing Zelda to be rational about Zelda, so reviewer scores are especially meaningless here.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:34
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exquisite tea posted:There's an entire other major area that's going to open up shortly after that sequence. Your final campfire save before the last boss literally has a pop-up message saying THIS IS THE POINT OF NO RETURN and even then you can go back and 100% everything once the game is finished. Oh okay cool
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Mar 10, 2017 23:35
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ImpAtom posted:Anyone who is stupid enough to think a perfect score means a perfect game probably has trouble figuring out that they should stop trying to breathe underwater. B-but reviews should be perfectly objective, I don't want any of this subjective poo poo in my game reviews! (objectivity is impossible in any sort of art and entertainment and any attempt to review those things with total objectivity is likely to miss the entire point of art or entertainment right from the start)
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Mar 10, 2017 23:36
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The White Dragon posted:For a second I thought this was continuing the "kid gets pulled by its arm" discussion and I was like "whoa that sounds pretty hardcore" Unreleased footage of news dad at a local high school. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khEzmN_Ok90
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Mar 10, 2017 23:36
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I am sitting next to a girl at pax who fantasizes about the cold war and in the same breath complained about her pokemon game not patching fast enough And I just heard someone talking about giant bomb on my other side and it's pat baer, the guy heading the panel I'm going to next Weird
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Mar 10, 2017 23:38
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Harrow posted:B-but reviews should be perfectly objective, I don't want any of this subjective poo poo in my game reviews! Even beyond objectivity, 'the top score in a critical review' has not and should never mean 'literally without flaw.' Nobody looks at a 4/5/whatever star movie review and goes "oh gosh, that means this movie is perfect and has no flaws?!" or sees the top score for a gadget review and assumes that it cures cancer or whatever. The fact that a top score is treated as The Literal Perfect Game is as much a problem with review scoring as the fact that 7 is treated as a failure. If you have a review score you literally never use then your review system is pretty stupid.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:38
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The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild is a perfect game
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Mar 10, 2017 23:39
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Okay that's not exactly true because the main quest writing sucks but everything else (including side quest writing) is really really good.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:40
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Captain Invictus posted:I am sitting next to a girl at pax who fantasizes about the cold war and in the same breath complained about her pokemon game not patching fast enough show them your sword
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Mar 10, 2017 23:42
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an actual dog posted:Okay that's not exactly true because the main quest writing sucks but everything else (including side quest writing) is really really good. There are a ton of really good dialogue options in the game. I like the guy you can talk to and just keep picking 'Why?' after everything he says
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Mar 10, 2017 23:42
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