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I've seen some people pretty bewildered, Because the mentions of other cells and the appearance of things like a fairly formal seeming rank structure, uniforms, made it seem like the rebellion was pretty much under way. Even if it hadn't come together in one space, it was presented as being very definately a thing. But here is Mothma now making it even more formally a thing? OK.
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Mar 6, 2017 00:53
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ShineDog posted:I've seen some people pretty bewildered, Because the mentions of other cells and the appearance of things like a fairly formal seeming rank structure, uniforms, made it seem like the rebellion was pretty much under way. Even if it hadn't come together in one space, it was presented as being very definately a thing. But here is Mothma now making it even more formally a thing? OK. I think that was just that General's cell. All of these groups have their own hierarchy and their own leaders. Mon Mothma just united them into one rank and one file.
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Mar 6, 2017 01:03
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it's all different when it comes to "this is the formation of the Rebellion". I considered what happened at the end of Rogue One as "this is the first time the Rebellion acts as an alliance instead of as a bunch of different cells doing different things and reporting the findings back to Base 1" and the ending here is basically Mon Mothma admitting straight up "so you heard about us forming an alliance? Here's what we have so far" as all of the ships drop out of HS. Also was it just a framing thing because it looked like the Hammerheads were larger than the Nebulon Frigates and if so 
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Mar 6, 2017 01:27
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Aces High posted:it's all different when it comes to "this is the formation of the Rebellion". I considered what happened at the end of Rogue One as "this is the first time the Rebellion acts as an alliance instead of as a bunch of different cells doing different things and reporting the findings back to Base 1" and the ending here is basically Mon Mothma admitting straight up "so you heard about us forming an alliance? Here's what we have so far" as all of the ships drop out of HS. Mon mothma is at yavin already by rogue one, same with the ghost. They specifically mention and show a council of the different factions requiring unanimous agreement to strike at the empire. Its pretty clear the rebellion is formed quite a bit by then.
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Mar 6, 2017 01:35
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No, rogue one, was them all in one place, taking the fight to the empire "calling all cars" situation, the other rebels were there but weren't sure about pulling the trigger. They'd been doing poo poo, the whole time.
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Mar 6, 2017 01:42
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Covok posted:I think that was just that General's cell. All of these groups have their own hierarchy and their own leaders. Mon Mothma just united them into one rank and one file. Sure, I mean, canonically that's what happened. But given that the show never really showed that this hadn't already happened, and outright stated a wider organisation (They are regularly in contact with other cells. Getting resources for other cells comes up several times) this big moment just doesn't come across strongly. There wasn't any reason to think Commander Sato didn't answer to rebellion high command, for instance.
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Mar 6, 2017 02:15
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It's been very clear since the start of Rebels. The greater rebellion has been doing it's thing. Some has been highly organised and has man power. Some hasn't. It's been groups of people loyal to particular local element leaders. She was just calling all the leaders out, to become an open, unified army. Rogue One was about using it, all of it.
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Mar 6, 2017 03:23
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Yeah I really don't see how it's that confusing, but I do think the show could have done a lot more with friction between rebel groups. You get some of it with Saw in both rebels and Rogue One, but nothing bigger than that. Would have been neat to have the alliance be more of a 'United Front' than all groups that are perfectly ideologically homogenous.
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Mar 6, 2017 03:47
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Aces High posted:Also was it just a framing thing because it looked like the Hammerheads were larger than the Nebulon Frigates and if so It's an optical illusion not often understood, but objects that are closer to the camera appear larger than ones that are further away from the camera The fleet has 8 CR 90s, 4 Nebulons, 4 Hammerheads, 2 transports, the Quasar-fire carrier, and a Home One type Mon Calamari cruiser NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Mar 6, 2017 |
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Mar 6, 2017 04:10
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I see it like this. Before this episode all the rebel cells operated independently, with only broad support among each other. From now on, things will be more organized, resources will be pooled and operations will be carefully planned and executed as to strike at the Empire and minimize damage to either the Rebels or civilians. By the time Rogue One happens, the Rebels have organized into a proper fighting force with a command structure and a well organized and trained fighting force. One of Gold Squadrons pilots remarks that some of the Ghosts actions have actually caused problems for other cells.
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Mar 6, 2017 04:13
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Star Wars are so confusing.
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Mar 6, 2017 06:41
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Good fantasy steals from mythology. Decent fantasy steals from Lord of the Rings. Bad fantasy steals from D&D (or other LoTR knockoffs) At this point, where are we with Star Wars? It was bad enough when every fan fiction writer who made the newest Han Solo clone and presented them as an original character (do not steal!). Rebels started with some promise but we've gone from lazy fanfiction where "Here's my character -- he's basically Han Solo but (you'll never see this coming) he's also a Jedi" to "My original character's name is Dash Kyle Katan Rendar . . . and he's the best and based on nothing because he's totally original." People talk about how this is based on a D20 game like that is a good thing. Come on.
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Mar 6, 2017 06:53
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Do you ever get tired of endlessly bitching about a children's cartoon not living up to the deep storytelling you so desperately think it should have? Deep storytelling that requires it to never reference other parts of the franchise, apparently. I'm still not sure why you think that characters from elsewhere in the franchise showing up in what amount to cameo appearances is such a horrific offense that it destroys the show, but by god you seem determined to never shut the gently caress up about it.
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Mar 6, 2017 07:54
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Shbobdb posted:Good fantasy steals from mythology. drat dude you owned the hell out of those video game characters with 10 lines of dialog from childrens toys/videogames from the 90s! Savage
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Mar 6, 2017 08:35
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Shbobdb posted:
D6 Star Wars son. If you are gonna endlessly complain at least do it correctly. Educate yourself: http://wargamedork.blogspot.com/2016/12/operation-game-collection-star-wars.html
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Mar 6, 2017 08:51
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewUykNIp7mo I'm sorry if my hatred and contempt showed through too much. I've just been informed that Star Wars is a D6 and not a D20 system. If that made my point too difficult to understand . . .
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Mar 6, 2017 09:14
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I don't know I agree on the reasons but this show really hasn't been great this season. It's meandering from plot to plot with no real urgency, the writing has just been clunky, plots have been built around character asspulls (Sabines out of nowhere crisis of self which Kanan talked about like it had always been a big thing with her) and the always kinda thin characterisation is barely existent right now. I'd even take the heavy handed Era's lesson of the week from s1 over this season's Ezra does.. a thing I guess? I had high hopes with the darkside Ezra plot but it's barely moved.
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Mar 6, 2017 09:37
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Shbobdb posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewUykNIp7mo
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Mar 6, 2017 11:21
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I mean, the old EU was Literal Trash anyway. Remember how apparently the Death Star plans were found by about 8 different groups of people in entirely different locations and circumstances? And how the rebellion was formed by Darth Vader's secret apprentice?
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Mar 6, 2017 12:02
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Yeah I really don't see how it's that confusing, but I do think the show could have done a lot more with friction between rebel groups. You get some of it with Saw in both rebels and Rogue One, but nothing bigger than that. Would have been neat to have the alliance be more of a 'United Front' than all groups that are perfectly ideologically homogenous. They had that in the episode, albeit only a couple of lines. The Gold squadron pilot was complaining about how Phoenix Squadron blowing up Tarkin's Star Destroyer had increased security across the Outer Rim.
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Mar 6, 2017 15:17
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Shbobdb posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewUykNIp7mo Man, why do you do this to us? instead of being combative, why not be a couple of shades brighter. Find some upsides to stuff. Exactly zero people care about your ramblings, you've managed to ruin Star Wars for yourself, and now you're out to gently caress it for others. You're much less insufferable in other threads.
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Mar 6, 2017 15:41
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ShineDog posted:I don't know I agree on the reasons but this show really hasn't been great this season. It's meandering from plot to plot with no real urgency, the writing has just been clunky, plots have been built around character asspulls (Sabines out of nowhere crisis of self which Kanan talked about like it had always been a big thing with her) and the always kinda thin characterisation is barely existent right now. As a counterpoint to the bolded, Sabine's inner conflict in relation to her past has been referenced as far back as Season 1, when she got all *trust issues* on Hera in that episode with the abandoned Republic base. Even went as far to (vaguely) mention her sordid history with the Empire. I definitely agree that the show could benefit from a tighter focus on characterization - the training episode is evidence enough of the benefits of that - but I can't really recall any unearned character moments, or at least, none that I haven't been able to justify in some manner. Really am hoping that something comes from ambiguous-morals Ezra at some point, though.
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Mar 6, 2017 18:39
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Cross-Section posted:As a counterpoint to the bolded, Sabine's inner conflict in relation to her past has been referenced as far back as Season 1, when she got all *trust issues* on Hera in that episode with the abandoned Republic base. Even went as far to (vaguely) mention her sordid history with the Empire. I think Erza in the Darothmir episode pulled away from the Dark side. Like, I feel that was the entire point of the episode. You could argue they didn't do much with it, but I think that came from them deciding to put the focus on Sabine and a few others this season. It does come a bit unfocused, in hindsight, but I wonder how much of that came from being told they needed to do some Rogue One tying and if that ended up delaying episode writing. To elaborate, animation takes a long time and you need scripts in early. With the Rogue One rewrites and reshoots and the such, I wonder if that delayed their writing so they made more filler episodes than normal to buy time, episodes totally disconnected so they couldn't step on their tie-in shoes, so to speak.
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Mar 6, 2017 18:46
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Covok posted:I think Erza in the Darothmir episode pulled away from the Dark side. Like, I feel that was the entire point of the episode. You could argue they didn't do much with it, but I think that came from them deciding to put the focus on Sabine and a few others this season. It does come a bit unfocused, in hindsight, but I wonder how much of that came from being told they needed to do some Rogue One tying and if that ended up delaying episode writing. To elaborate, animation takes a long time and you need scripts in early. With the Rogue One rewrites and reshoots and the such, I wonder if that delayed their writing so they made more filler episodes than normal to buy time, episodes totally disconnected so they couldn't step on their tie-in shoes, so to speak. I think the Rebels writers were lucky in that their chief tie-in with R1 was Saw, who, from what I've read, didn't change much over the course of the making of the movie. As for Ezra and the dark side, I think that was primarily resolved in the season premiere when Kanan pulled him back into the light during his literal fall, and his status was reinforced when he later rejected Maul. It was all resolved a little quick for my tastes, but (as you're basically saying) I don't think it's really a dangling plot thread anymore.
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Mar 6, 2017 18:59
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Speaking of the formation of the Rebel Alliance. I thought the progression shown has been good. We start Season 1 with a small cell on one world. With one member in contact with a source that has ties to other cells. With another cell, Phoenix Squadron, coming to save the day in the finale. Season 2 we see the Lothal rebels join with Phoenix Squadron. Which receives covet material assistance from Bail Organa, who helping fund and direct the various rebel cells, and provided some help to Cham Syndulla's resistance. Season 3 is where we see the Rebel Alliance finally come together with the presence of a Rebel Command to coordinate the cells. It tasks Phoenix Squadron with stealing Y-wings to give to General Jan Dodonna's unit and to rescue Saw Gerrera's Partisans on Geonosis. This episode is where I'd say things truly move from local cells waging their own insurgencies to the beginnings of a full galaxy wide civil war, which kicks off in Rogue One, as they pool their strength.
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Mar 7, 2017 08:51
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Finally caught up with the season, and man was that last episode full of gorgeous visuals.
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Mar 8, 2017 04:06
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They really do know how to shoot their space and spaceship scenes; Abrams could have used the memo earlier
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Mar 8, 2017 11:32
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Who mad? Maul mad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv09z2o4UXM
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Mar 10, 2017 21:13
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Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:Who mad? Maul mad. Maul's probably dying here but I really hope he doesn't
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Mar 10, 2017 21:15
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Rocksicles posted:No, rogue one, was them all in one place, taking the fight to the empire "calling all cars" situation, the other rebels were there but weren't sure about pulling the trigger. All that makes it a bit odd that in A New Hope it looks like a single Rebel Cell taking on the Death Star, while it wasn't until Return of the Jedi that it looked like multiple cells banded together to take on the Second Death Star given that Ackbar was there with a load of Mon Cal and their own ships, with A-Wings, B-Wings, Cruisers and so on in comparison to A New Hope being a bunch of white guys in X-Wings. Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:Who mad? Maul mad. I can't help but think his desire for revenge and anger at Obi-Wan is a bit weird given all that Palpatine did to him after someone mentioned it a few months back. I'd be nice if they painted him as too scared of Palpatine or overwhelmed by the amount of work it'd take to get the guy so he concentrates on Kenobi who he feels is more vulnerable or easier, instead of him harboring a grudge for years that makes no sense held up against a guy who used him, killed his brother, decimated his entire species and tortured him in some unspecified way after defeating him.
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Mar 10, 2017 22:42
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tsob posted:All that makes it a bit odd that in A New Hope it looks like a single Rebel Cell taking on the Death Star, while it wasn't until Return of the Jedi that it looked like multiple cells banded together to take on the Second Death Star given that Ackbar was there with a load of Mon Cal and their own ships, with A-Wings, B-Wings, Cruisers and so on in comparison to A New Hope being a bunch of white guys in X-Wings. Wasn't that ultimately why he wanted the battlestation in season 2? He seemed reasonably sure Vader would kick his rear end.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:14
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tsob posted:All that makes it a bit odd that in A New Hope it looks like a single Rebel Cell taking on the Death Star, while it wasn't until Return of the Jedi that it looked like multiple cells banded together to take on the Second Death Star given that Ackbar was there with a load of Mon Cal and their own ships, with A-Wings, B-Wings, Cruisers and so on in comparison to A New Hope being a bunch of white guys in X-Wings. I never got that feeling watching the movies. Seems like the rebellion is on multiple planets (-1) with a lot of resources. Enough to field several attack wings of fighters and bombers. Then we actually see a fleet of ships at the end of ESB. I never assumed those were the rebellions only ships. RotJ just expands on that.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:21
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tsob posted:All that makes it a bit odd that in A New Hope it looks like a single Rebel Cell taking on the Death Star, while it wasn't until Return of the Jedi that it looked like multiple cells banded together to take on the Second Death Star given that Ackbar was there with a load of Mon Cal and their own ships, with A-Wings, B-Wings, Cruisers and so on in comparison to A New Hope being a bunch of white guys in X-Wings. Well considering how Rogue One ends it actually makes a lot of sense why Base One is so bare. Sure we think the Ghost jumped away in time and both Red and Gold squadrons made it back but outside of the Tantive IV all of the major assets were lost at the Battle of Scarif including a Nebulon frigate and for the Alliance those things aren't easy to replace. Also at this point I like to think that we don't see A-Wings until RotJ because Hera keeps getting them all destroyed  she may be a great pilot and a fairly competent ground forces leader but Wing Commander/Squadron Leader? Eeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhh
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Mar 10, 2017 23:24
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tsob posted:All that makes it a bit odd that in A New Hope it looks like a single Rebel Cell taking on the Death Star, while it wasn't until Return of the Jedi that it looked like multiple cells banded together to take on the Second Death Star given that Ackbar was there with a load of Mon Cal and their own ships, with A-Wings, B-Wings, Cruisers and so on in comparison to A New Hope being a bunch of white guys in X-Wings. That award ceremony building was massive and full of dudes. I doubt theyre only trying to show 1 cell with a scene like that.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:34
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Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:Who mad? Maul mad. gently caress. The way he yelled Kenobi. 
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Mar 11, 2017 00:36
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In a massive twist Obi-Wan died and Maul discovers Force Illusion and takes over.
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Mar 11, 2017 00:58
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I can certainly see the Battle of Scarif depleting the Fleet that was at Yavin so that's why there was just fighters, and lots of ground troops. Also, didn't the destruction of the first Death Star bring in a lot more support to the rebels? By destroying the ulimate symbol of Imperial power, it showed that the Rebels were more than they seemed, and may have a chance.
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Mar 11, 2017 03:25
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twistedmentat posted:I can certainly see the Battle of Scarif depleting the Fleet that was at Yavin so that's why there was just fighters, and lots of ground troops. It's also because the Death Star was determined to be specifically vulnerable to fighter attack and as we saw with the DSII in Jedi could easily vaporize capital ships without being threatened by them. And even up until Revenge of the Sith they hadn't figured out how to film capital ship battles that didn't just involve fighters, so there are conveniently only fighters in the first movie. RotJ's story was actually really creative in making the battle interesting by contriving a scenario that played to their strengths and covered up the weaknesses of the VFX technology.
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Mar 11, 2017 04:50
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Also the Empire did not really take the Rebellion seriously with them attacking with only a few squads of fighters. It's why only like a few tie's were sent to deal with them. They felt the guns would take care of them. Had they sent out more fighters and bigger ships. They would have been forced to deal with much more resistance.
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Mar 11, 2017 05:40
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Hell, weren't the few TIEs launched only done so because Vader grabbed them? Tarkin was just "pfft, yeah". In the old EU eventually they did add a larger rebel attack against the Death Star, a Lucrehulk Ship (the bigass trade federation ship) with several hundred X-wings aboard attacked it while it was stopped mid-route to Yavin. The X-wings were just drowned in a thousand TIEs and the Deathstar laser popped the Lucrehulk like a zit. It was really stupid.
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