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Zigmidge posted:Thanks to Bobbie I'm learning that tviv is as unempathetic as games. It's been a trend for a long time. See; goon attitudes toward Skyler White
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Mar 11, 2017 20:05
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Bolow posted:Uh, she watched a 9ft tall glowing naked blue man run across the surface of an airless rock, rip through a squad of UN Marines and her own squad while shrugging off everything they threw at it. So yeah she might be a bit shaken for a week or two at trying to process that poo poo. MCRN command telling her to lie in her testimony probably isn't helping matters. The only thing creepier than the sci-fi predilection for broken doll violence engines are those who endlessly white-knight for them. She was turbo-Hitler for starting a war that would have killed billions, literally, until she found out that overwhelming violence you can't even resist, like those said same billions who would have died in the war she wanted, is loving horrific. That's not a character, that's a pile of cliches and really loving obvious concepts stitched together trying to resemble a person. Sorry you like bad things.
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Mar 11, 2017 20:14
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Thats just like, your opinion man.
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Mar 11, 2017 20:20
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AirborneNinja posted:Thats just like, your opinion man. Nah, he's right.
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Mar 11, 2017 20:48
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you might want to see how the rest of the season turns out before you start bitching about "broken doll violence engines."
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Mar 11, 2017 20:55
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Calling her Hitler is pretty extreme. And, more importantly, is a WWII figure, which clashes with the Space Cold War situation. If you're gonna compare her to a historical jackass, at least be creative enough to say Curtis LeMay or some Russian equivalent.
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Mar 11, 2017 21:28
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I know what happens... so you can lay off the 'I R bookposter' poo poo. The showrunners have made some good changes so far, tossing Bobbie out an airlock would just continue with that tradition. Serious question, is the fact the fact these broke-brain valkyries are mentally ill make it easier for you guys to fantasize about the pretend space-ladies touching your junk? Is that the reason for their popularity?
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Mar 11, 2017 21:56
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jfood posted:I know what happens... so you can lay off the 'I R bookposter' poo poo. The showrunners have made some good changes so far, tossing Bobbie out an airlock would just continue with that tradition. Anything being mentally ill makes it easier for me to imagine it touching my junk personally
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Mar 11, 2017 22:07
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Book Bobbie is way better imho
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Mar 11, 2017 22:29
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I think it's fascinating in a way that show Miller, who is far more of a degenerate scumbag than book Miller is so much more favorably recieved from the word go than Bobbie at introduction. Remember when Miller was gonna space the guy who hosed with the air filters, then he ended up saving his life when he promised a tripling of his bribe? Show Miller wasn't just called a welwalla just because he worked for Star Helix, show Miller actually was one. The Belter credo is "enviromental systems are everything" and Miller threw that away for a tripling of his bribe, to say nothing of his self destructive drinking, his personal mistreatment of Muss, and his abuse of prisoners. poo poo Miller even uses Earther slurs like "longbones" for Belters with more extreme low gee influenced physiology. Bobbie is at least 2nd generation Martian military, has spent her entire life living and breathing Martian propaganda, spent her entire career training for a moment that everyone tells her shouldn't ever come - can't ever come, probably hasn't even met someone who identifies as an Earther. Then suddenly Earth loving nukes a moon of Mars out of existence and is trying to pin blame for everything crazy happening in the system on Mars. Is it too surprising that she's gungho about taking the fight to the state that has been the historical oppressor of Mars, and whose civilians have been dehumanized in the eyes of Martians? As hamfisted as they were, those scenes with the Earther immigrant squad mate are trying to make a point about the how the physical differences between Earthers and Martians that the show can't do visually impact how the different peoples view each other. Bobby's a patriot and a soldier who wants to do what she's been told is her job, her perspective is very narrow, but it's going to broaden very quickly. I'm very hopeful for where they're going to take her character in coming episodes, generally speaking the show has taken the book characters and presented them as far less "likable" at first so you can see how they grow as they're exposed to more of the world outside of the little slice they've lived in their whole lives before the show started.
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Mar 11, 2017 23:06
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So we're back to the tried and true belief that goons hate nothing more than someone with Incorrect Political Opinions, even in a fake space future. Like I get the impression people don't want Avasarala and Dawes and factions and this and that. They just want some politically perfect, rational visionary to right every wrong in the setting and then drop an "i told you so GBS-brand-communism is king".
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Mar 11, 2017 23:58
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jfood posted:I know what happens... so you can lay off the 'I R bookposter' poo poo. The showrunners have made some good changes so far, tossing Bobbie out an airlock would just continue with that tradition. drat son step away from the screen and get some fresh air
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Mar 12, 2017 00:12
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Strategic Tea posted:So we're back to the tried and true belief that goons hate nothing more than someone with Incorrect Political Opinions, even in a fake space future. Male character going through trauma: tough, strong, cool dude, manly tears Female character going through trauma: mentally-ill waifu broke-brain valkyries broken doll violence engines turbo Hitler Characters along those lines exist (River from Firefly, absolutely) but equating Bobbie to that is weird.
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Mar 12, 2017 00:22
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What exactly are the internally developed motivations and emotional content of the character? There aren't any. It's external factors all the way down. Trying to equate that with actual femisist ideology is laughable, cuz she ain't even a person let alone a woman. Just a collection of parts stitched together. But hey, you can wank to it, so grind on that defensive line as hard as you can.
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Mar 12, 2017 00:33
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I'll say again: book bobbie good
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Mar 12, 2017 00:36
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Most of the hate I see isn't even gender related. It's either she's too much of a war hawk (oh no! a character who isn't rationally correct about everything!) Or that while completely traumatised and probably eating through a tube she blamed Earth marines for the death of her squad and couldn't recall what had actually happened (totally irrational! if I was her i would just have publicised the truth then united the belt then assassinated Mao and invented FTL travel)
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Mar 12, 2017 00:39
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jfood posted:What exactly are the internally developed motivations and emotional content of the character? There aren't any. It's external factors all the way down. You have issues
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Mar 12, 2017 00:42
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Phi230 posted:I'll say again: book bobbie good  Clearly typed with one hand
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Mar 12, 2017 00:42
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jfood posted:What exactly are the internally developed motivations and emotional content of the character? There aren't any. It's external factors all the way down. Talk about broke brain'd! 
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Mar 12, 2017 00:45
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jfood posted:What exactly are the internally developed motivations and emotional content of the character? There aren't any. It's external factors all the way down.
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Mar 12, 2017 00:52
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Strategic Tea posted:Most of the hate I see isn't even gender related. It's either she's too much of a war hawk (oh no! a character who isn't rationally correct about everything!) Naw... good characters can have terrible and incorrect opinions on stuff and horrific motivations. Fred Johnson and his pathological need to be 'redeemed' as a saviour, it's wrong but it's humanizing. Miller's desire for self-destruction and taking everything else down with him. They can even not be 'characters' with those same values, like Jules Mao who really exists more as a force of nature than an actual person. All loving wretched people, but people none the less. There's nothing about Bobbie that makes her a person, just a vehicle for making GBS threads exposition and it sadly trades on the 'broke-brain warrior woman' sexist cliche that comes with pretty sci fi story to get it done. It just sticks out so much when you pair it against fully developed characters like Naomi or Avasarala who breakthrough a lot of the traditional roles for women in fiction, let alone sci fi.
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Mar 12, 2017 00:56
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I'll take a coffee with some extra match heads.
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Mar 12, 2017 00:57
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jfood posted:What exactly are the internally developed motivations and emotional content of the character? There aren't any. It's external factors all the way down. She's a dumbass nationalistic war hawk who identifies with the military. This is the starting point of her character arc - she hasn't actually been on screen that much albeit they didn't use the time she was particularly well. You're the only one here who keeps talking about her in a sexual context. Stop projecting.
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Mar 12, 2017 00:58
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Julie Mao, the pretty and intelligent social revolutionary who beats people up and welcomes in and kisses the much older man who is obsessed with her: good. Bobbie Draper, the military woman who just watched her friends get murdered by an alien monster and is faced with losing her faith in Mars and the people she serves and is understandably a bit distraught: bad.
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Mar 12, 2017 01:03
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all the book spoiler meltdowns and fights itt makes me think the whole Game of Thrones in Space comparison was accurate.
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Mar 12, 2017 01:06
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Julie Mao and Jules Mao are different people, you can tell by the different names. Hope this helps with your posting going forward.
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Mar 12, 2017 01:07
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etalian posted:all the book spoiler meltdowns and fights itt makes me think the whole Game of Thrones in Space comparison was accurate. Seriously, OP just lock the thread until the next episode.
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Mar 12, 2017 01:12
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I just think it's strange that people can only engage with characters they don't like by saying how they would change them to suit their personal tastes rather than trying to think why that character was written that way in the first place.
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Mar 12, 2017 01:55
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This thread made it impressively far before becoming the kind of thread where you want to follow it only during the day or two after each episode airs.
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Mar 12, 2017 02:00
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They should have followed the books and made Bobbi white. I can't identify with her struggle now that she isn't white.
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Mar 12, 2017 02:05
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jfood posted:Julie Mao and Jules Mao are different people, you can tell by the different names. You got some busted rear end opinions homes but thanks for vomiting them all over this thread
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Mar 12, 2017 02:23
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withak posted:This thread made it impressively far before becoming the kind of thread where you want to follow it only during the day or two after each episode airs. It peaked with the yo momma jokes.
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Mar 12, 2017 02:50
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jfood posted:I know what happens... so you can lay off the 'I R bookposter' poo poo. The showrunners have made some good changes so far, tossing Bobbie out an airlock would just continue with that tradition. what
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Mar 12, 2017 03:40
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Barreft posted:what 
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Mar 12, 2017 03:48
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jfood posted:It's external factors all the way down. ... Just a collection of parts stitched together. I like where your head's at, comrade. The authoritarian soul is no soul at all. They simply aren't people like you and I.
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Mar 12, 2017 04:05
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enraged_camel posted:That tiny capsule she took to help her remember what really happened is more than just a memory aid, right? Because her new commanding officer also took it when he sat down to debrief her the first time. I call it Space Adderall when my wife asks...
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Mar 12, 2017 04:26
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ATP_Power posted:I think it's fascinating in a way that show Miller, who is far more of a degenerate scumbag than book Miller is so much more favorably recieved from the word go than Bobbie at introduction. Remember when Miller was gonna space the guy who hosed with the air filters, then he ended up saving his life when he promised a tripling of his bribe? Show Miller wasn't just called a welwalla just because he worked for Star Helix, show Miller actually was one. The Belter credo is "enviromental systems are everything" and Miller threw that away for a tripling of his bribe, to say nothing of his self destructive drinking, his personal mistreatment of Muss, and his abuse of prisoners. poo poo Miller even uses Earther slurs like "longbones" for Belters with more extreme low gee influenced physiology. WTF are you talking about with Miller? He went home and looked around at the various belter kids around him, felt guilty about the air filters, went and found the guy and drug him into an airlock to asphyxiate him for a few seconds, and told him to clean the drat filters from now on. There was no mention of tripling a bribe. Why would he say "Breathing air is nice huh?" and then suck out all the dudes air and wait for several seconds if his plan was to just space him? Do you think Bobbies little chant about how she wants to physically destroy the earth was just made up in response to recent events, or was it more of a common thing for martian marines to say? Most of the Bobbie hate came from before Ganymede, but I think the worst thing she's done so far is, when she clearly can't remember what happened, she immediately defaults to 'earthers musta done it, WAR TIEM'. Since smugass book readers can't shut the gently caress up, it's obvious by now that Bobbie will have some kind of redemption arc and become a better character, and that's great to look forward to I guess. For now however, she's an angry warmongering jerk. Not literally hitler, but she doesn't come close to the charisma or likability Miller had.
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Mar 12, 2017 04:44
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counterfeitsaint posted:WTF are you talking about with Miller? He went home and looked around at the various belter kids around him, felt guilty about the air filters, went and found the guy and drug him into an airlock to asphyxiate him for a few seconds, and told him to clean the drat filters from now on. There was no mention of tripling a bribe. Why would he say "Breathing air is nice huh?" and then suck out all the dudes air and wait for several seconds if his plan was to just space him?
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Mar 12, 2017 05:08
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ATP_Power posted:Listen closer, the guy in the airlock says something along the lines of "I'll pay you double! Triple!" then Miller opens the airlock - you could read it as coincidence I suppose, but if it was just Miller teaching him a lesson, why include the businessman raising the bribe while the air is rushing out? Because people will pay anything to live, and generally wont accept being spaced without at least trying to bargain for their lives.
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Mar 12, 2017 05:15
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Miller was bad and I'm glad he's dead.
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Mar 12, 2017 05:22
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