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For sure, but it also sort of works in the sense that the various identities which mutants serve as a metaphor are also subject to variations in priviledge and all sorts of intersectionality issues. If anything, the way that that gender, sexuality, and race are all combined into a unified "mutant" identity can be as much a failing as a success of the metaphor. The presence of mutants with a significant downside works partially because not every person who falls outside of the WASP standard of normality is equally comfortable translating how they feel about who they are into a super-heroic power fantasy. The feeling of being monstrous due to race or sexuality, etc, is something that is something that this metaphor ideally confronts, embraces, etc. And, of course, "normality" or conditional acceptance is something that is selectively offered as a tool of power in all sorts of subtle ways. Maybe the "cure" plot line was a clumsy way of getting at all of this, but it was also the most memorable thing about X3 that wasn't a cringy meme. It's worth remembering that it tried to address these ideas, if only to go back and point out if and how it failed.
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Mar 11, 2017 03:28
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That is the cool bit about the ending. It that the same answer isn't true for everyone. Iceman is happy being Iceman. Rogue isn't, and they make different choices.
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Mar 11, 2017 03:29
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Mutants work not so much as a metaphor but as something to which the gay/black/trans/etc. experience is applicable and vice-versa. X2 isn't saying that being gay is like having sick ice powers, but that there are commonalities in various experiences of revealing a part of oneself to one's parent that they reject, in people treating a part of your identity as merely part of your behavior, etc.
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Mar 11, 2017 03:38
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Sir Kodiak posted:Mutants work not so much as a metaphor but as something to which the gay/black/trans/etc. experience is applicable and vice-versa. X2 isn't saying that being gay is like having sick ice powers, but that there are commonalities in various experiences of revealing a part of oneself to one's parent that they reject, in people treating a part of your identity as merely part of your behavior, etc. Absolutely. My issue is that the Cure storyline when applied to mutants choosing it was poorly done. I only saw the movie once, so I could be very wrong, but when Rogue chooses to be able to have human contact, it's treated as a horrible choice and it costs her all her friends and her boyfriend. Make the cure something other than a flu shot and give it real side effects, also maybe don't focus the story on the only main character that would have valid reasons for taking the cure. Hell, Magneto is clearly still a mutant at the end, so make the Cure more like hosed up conversion therapy. If you've added in "bad" mutations to better parallel real world groups that mutants are stand ins for, you need to keep that in mind when doing a "cure" plot line.
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Mar 11, 2017 03:53
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Sir Kodiak posted:Mutants work not so much as a metaphor but as something to which the gay/black/trans/etc. experience is applicable and vice-versa. X2 isn't saying that being gay is like having sick ice powers, but that there are commonalities in various experiences of revealing a part of oneself to one's parent that they reject, in people treating a part of your identity as merely part of your behavior, etc. In an emotional scene, X-Man Robert Blake, code-name "Iceman," (Shawn Ashmore) reveals to his parents that he is black. Don't ask me why I thought of this okay I just did 
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Mar 11, 2017 04:05
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Gyges posted:Absolutely. My issue is that the Cure storyline when applied to mutants choosing it was poorly done. I only saw the movie once, so I could be very wrong, but when Rogue chooses to be able to have human contact, it's treated as a horrible choice and it costs her all her friends and her boyfriend. Yeah, X3 botches it completely with Rogue, conflating her wanting a full life with not wanting to be different.
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Mar 11, 2017 04:20
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Gyges posted:If you've added in "bad" mutations to better parallel real world groups that mutants are stand ins for, you need to keep that in mind when doing a "cure" plot line. It might have worked better if they had kept it closer to mutants whose powers can be easily concealed contrasted with those who can easily pass as normal. But yeah, "I literally can't touch people without risk of fatal injury" is just giving up on the usefulness of the plot device to speak to reality. It might have worked if she decided not to be "cured" despite that, though? For what it's worth, I did also find the idea of forcibly "curing" Magneto suitably horrific, and was glad when they showed that it didn't work even if it was presented as cheap sequel hook.
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Mar 11, 2017 04:33
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It just goes to show what a hatchet-job X3 was because Rogue choosing the cure would be a magnificent grey area to explore. It could be the mutants that got the lovely powers or like in Rogue's case where it's far more of a detriment than anything ("I can't touch people or they die") choosing the cure and fighting those don't want the anti-mutant people to be enabled. But, we got what we got.
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Mar 11, 2017 07:05
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Another teaser for WW https://twitter.com/trailertrack/status/840326023195574273 Oh and Gadot promises more surprises https://twitter.com/GalGadot/status/840306886876454912
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Mar 11, 2017 07:59
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Gyges posted:
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Mar 11, 2017 09:30
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Even the comics does that lunging hug they do in movies.
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Mar 11, 2017 09:33
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Not excited for this film but that's a pretty nice poster
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Mar 11, 2017 14:47
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Alhazred posted:Saying that Iceman's parents in X2 was right isn't daring. The "mutant cure" in X3 that Rogue's interested in is quite plainly an abortion metaphor. The clinic that does it is even surrounded by protesters. I'd say that idea is daring and good. It falters when they interpret the cure as a weapon instead of a more conceptual threat. They even make the (totally appropriate) choice to bring Callisto and the morlocks into the mix, but then completely sideline them. X3 is several good X-Men plots jammed into one terrible movie by idiots who only partially understood the material. There's a boring, neutered take on Dark Phoenix, the mutant cure and self-hating Angel plot, Magneto's class warfare, and that goddamn insulting sentinel tease that was all over the trailer. "I'm the juggernaut, bitch" explains the whole movie. A meme that means nothing, thrown in because that's totally an X-Men thing, right?
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Mar 11, 2017 15:21
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I thought the Angel sequence at the beginning of X3 was pretty cool, apparently a lot of people hated it though.
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Mar 11, 2017 15:52
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SleepCousinDeath posted:I thought the Angel sequence at the beginning of X3 was pretty cool, apparently a lot of people hated it though. the bit where he's drinking and listening to Four Horsemen by Metallica in Apocalypse was one of the only bits I liked from that movie.
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Mar 11, 2017 15:55
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:the bit where he's drinking and listening to Four Horsemen by Metallica in Apocalypse was one of the only bits I liked from that movie. yeah, that and the Quicksilver scene were probably my favorite parts of Apocalypse. It's a crime that the mall scene never made it into the movie.
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Mar 11, 2017 16:01
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Vinnie Jones as Juggernaut was inspired and more memorable than a ton of poo poo from the comics related to Juggernaut. There was attitude and personality. The most remembered Juggernaut story that I hear about is "Nobody stops the Juggernaut" from when Spidey tries everything he can to stop him. Something that was repeated when he's powered up in Fear Itself and the XMen throw everything at him but fail and it takes Colossus and others to go to Cyttorak in his dimension and ends up giving Juggernauts power to Colossus to even things out. Gatts fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Mar 11, 2017 |
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Mar 11, 2017 16:08
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The MSJ posted:Even the comics does that lunging hug they do in movies. Cyclops and Wolverine are just in the longest meeting up in front of strangers after a long time apart by friends ever. In a couple years we're going to get a friendship handshake to top even the Predator handshake.
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Mar 11, 2017 16:14
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Xealot posted:The "mutant cure" in X3 that Rogue's interested in is quite plainly an abortion metaphor. The clinic that does it is even surrounded by protesters. yeah, Charles didn't even get into his head once. A shameful Juggernaut.
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Mar 11, 2017 16:16
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Mar 11, 2017 16:20
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"dissolved by Juggernaut's internal fauna" 
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Mar 11, 2017 16:54
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McSpanky posted:"dissolved by Juggernaut's internal fauna" Dude is an unstoppable magic golem thing, can't fault him for having crotch mushrooms.
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Mar 11, 2017 16:57
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God drat do I hate Greg Land.
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Mar 11, 2017 17:26
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Gatts posted:The most remembered Juggernaut story that I hear about is "Nobody stops the Juggernaut" from when Spidey tries everything he can to stop him. "Huh, apparently logic stops the Juggernaut."
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Mar 11, 2017 17:44
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McSpanky posted:"dissolved by Juggernaut's internal fauna" MrJacobs posted:Dude is an unstoppable magic golem thing, can't fault him for having crotch mushrooms.
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Mar 11, 2017 19:12
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Sir Nose posted:We all have internal fauna-- the bacteria that live in our intestinal tract. Bacteria are flora
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Mar 11, 2017 19:13
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MrJacobs posted:Dude is an unstoppable magic golem thing, can't fault him for having crotch mushrooms. Fauna is animals. Edit: Tezcatlipoca posted:Bacteria are flora Strictly speaking the bacteria in an ecosystem are a subset of the biota but terms like gut flora and skin flora are pretty common. I've seen internal fauna before too but it's really weird. DeimosRising fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Mar 11, 2017 |
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Mar 11, 2017 19:19
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Gatts posted:Vinnie Jones as Juggernaut was inspired and more memorable than a ton of poo poo from the comics related to Juggernaut. There was attitude and personality. The most remembered Juggernaut story that I hear about is "Nobody stops the Juggernaut" from when Spidey tries everything he can to stop him. The Juggernaut really is one of those things that works in comics in a way that's hard to do on screen. His design is incredibly goofy, but really gets across his deal. He looks like a bullet or a cannonball or a nuclear bomb. You know right away that he is something that cuts through poo poo and you have to get out of the way. He also occupies this weird space where his relationship with Xavier is simultaneously vital and not vital at all. It's weird, but that's the nature of soap opera storytelling. You can more easily just announce that sure Charles has a brother why not.
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Mar 11, 2017 19:38
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Gatts posted:Vinnie Jones as Juggernaut was inspired and more memorable than a ton of poo poo from the comics related to Juggernaut. There was attitude and personality. The most remembered Juggernaut story that I hear about is "Nobody stops the Juggernaut" from when Spidey tries everything he can to stop him. Odysseus vs the Juggernaut
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Mar 11, 2017 19:42
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An Adam X The Xtreme sighting! He's X-Men's Poochie. I wonder if Marvel's Hercules ever fought Juggernaut. It does not even need a backstory. Juggernaut is watching sports on his couch (taking up the whole couch) when suddenly a drunk Hercules kicks his doors in and screams "You're the Juggernaut, my bitch!" and a battle ensues.
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Mar 11, 2017 23:34
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Talking of Xmen 3, it's the exact opposite of Star Trek Beyond, which is an average script with good execution. Xmen 3 is a lot of good ideas stuffed into too short a movie and executed poorly. It really was the prototypical overstuffed comic book movie, coming out just before Spiderman 3
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Mar 11, 2017 23:35
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https://youtu.be/1OSl5nufl1A WW trailer is out!
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Mar 12, 2017 03:16
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:https://youtu.be/1OSl5nufl1A 
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Mar 12, 2017 03:38
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I can already tell that the fat comic relief lady is going to be awful.
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Mar 12, 2017 03:41
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I can already tell that the fat comic relief lady is going to be awful. Etta Candy?
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Mar 12, 2017 03:51
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Cage posted:In 360p. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INLzqh7rZ-U Digging the visual contrast between Themyscira and the outside world. And how glowy WW's equipments are.
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Mar 12, 2017 04:02
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The MSJ posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INLzqh7rZ-U Fuuuuck. Meeee. Wonder Woman looks so good. Please be good 
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Mar 12, 2017 05:39
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The MSJ posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INLzqh7rZ-U I'm starting to not like the whole "let's tack on a joke at the end" a lot of trailers do. It would have been better for me if it just ended with the logo and the WW riff.
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Mar 12, 2017 06:27
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I think Wonder Wonan is going to be a home run.
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Mar 12, 2017 06:30
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It looks like the good bits of Thor and the good bits of the first Captain America movie with a much better fight choreographer.
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Mar 12, 2017 06:38
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