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CottonWolf posted:I can't work out any solution to Beatrice's final riddle. The red she put down there seems pretty absolute. I know, right? Let's go through it to see how it stacks up to what's been said:  Both deaths were homicides! It is not the case that, after the construction of the closed room, one of them committed suicide after committing murder! Furthermore, the murder was carried out with both the victim and the perpetrator in the same room! No method exists for the perpetrator to commit murder from outside the room!"Nothing new here, and doesn't counter my theory that the servants were in cahoots. Next.  "Very well, next! Kanon was killed in the boiler room, correct? I shall add to the red truth. All of the survivors have alibis! Let us include the dead as well!! In short, no kind of human or dead person on the island could have killed Kanon!" Mm-hmm, because according to me, he injured himself non-lethally and Nanjo, a conspirator, said he was dead. No contradiction with my theory.  "In that case, what about the murders after that in the parlor, of Genji, Nanjo, and Kumasawa?! Naturally, Maria, who was in the same room, did not kill them! And of course, their three deaths were homicides!" "I guarantee the identities of all unidentified corpses. Therefore, there were no body double tricks!"Again, conspiracy: Beatrice told Maria face the wall, and while Battler may be on the right track with the Russian Roulette idea (I suggested something like it earlier), if my theory of Beatrice being Kanon is correct hee, there would be no need for that as Kanon has a master key- he could let himself in and out as he chooses: no closed room. "I shall add to the red truth! Natsuhi's death was a homicide! There were no unidentified corpses, and all of the survivors have alibis!" "The bullet buried into Natsuhi's forehead was not fired from her gun!"Beatrice (Kanon) had a gun and outdrew her on the stairs. Easy.  "From the time Maria received her key to the instant Rosa unsealed the envelope the next day, the key passed through no one's hands!!" "There were no doors with auto-locks other than Kinzo's study!" "The six were already dead by the time they were discovered! All of their deaths were homicides! All six were genuine victims and did not take part in a mutual murder! There was no simultaneous murder!!" "There was no one hiding in the chapel. Therefore, the shut-in murder you suggest does not work!"Huh... OK, that's a nick: If the key was really in the envelope Maria got from Beatrice earlier that day, that would mean there was no envelope switching and that theory's up the creek... but note that Beatrice omitted when Maria received the key. Maria was told not to open it after all; it could be there was a similar key to the chapel, with the same weight, in the first envelope, and if thart was switched during the night with the real key, it would allow Beato to say the key "did not leave her hands" with no contradiction. Unless I'm misremembering something?... The rest fits into the conspiracy theory. "They would never mistakenly think any other person was Kanon!"It probably was Kanon. Next. "All five master keys were discovered, each in the pocket of one of the servants! The individual room keys were found inside envelopes alongside the corpses! In short, all keys related to the linked closed rooms were locked inside the linked closed rooms!! No key could have been returned from outside the room using the crack of the door, the crack of the window, vents or any place of the sort!!" "All of them had what appeared to be gunshot wounds that were fatal! Murdering them from outside the room would have been impossible!! I shall say more with the red! When the five other than Kinzo were killed, the killer was definitely in the same room as them! I already proclaimed in red at the time that there were no suicides!!""Appeared to be gunshot wounds"... Oh, har de har, Beatrice. And even with that big-rear end hint being dropped, Battler still doesn't get it or even think that somebody's faking it (Poison gas? Battler, you incompetent.)   "...And right now, there is no one other than you on this island. The only one alive on this island is you. Nothing outside the island can interfere." "...You are all alone on this island. And of course, I am not you. Yet I am here, now, and am about to kill you."Hmm. Well, here we have a deal breaker for one of my theories regarding Beatrice: if Battler is alone on the island... then that means Kanon can't be alive, in a dress or otherwise, and the fact that Kanon' "dead", wordplay on Beatrices part or not, is moot. If That's the case then where's the body? (And how is Battler about to die anyway, when there's no one left? He did eat some food... Poison, maybe?) You could argue that when Beatrice died, Kanon did too, but the final battle took place in Purgatory, and I'm not sure how literally I'm supposed to take what happens there... I have privately decided it is a metaphorical display of mental argument, because there's really no other way that works... So, back to the drawing board... I'm going to sleep on this, and maybe a fantastic idea will hit me.
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Mar 12, 2017 23:35
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If multiple people can be "Kinzo", then multiple people can be "Battler", and that easily explains the last few bits of red since we already know something is up with his identity. Maybe that contradicts some of the earlier red about Battler's identity though, I'm too lazy to go check.
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Mar 12, 2017 23:46
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I was thinking poison. After all, I already supposed that others were killed by way of poison food (although really they could have been killed any old way, I just needed some mechanism). I'd like something more personal, though, and relying on Battler eating the poison food is a bit chancy. I also have Kanon living until the end. So what about this: I have theorized that there's a fire at the end of the mystery in most cases, although for some reason the narrative never shows it to us. Kanon checks to see if Battler (Battler-the-piece) is asleep in the mansion. He then sets fire to it, and stands in the room he started the fire in. He dies. The conversation with Beatrice is happening during all this. Battler dies when the fire reaches him. Kanon doesn't even need to be Beatrice for this to work - he just has to be following Beatrice's plan; that likely still counts as Beatrice killing Battler. Them being there isn't a problem. Everyone is there. They're just dead.
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Mar 12, 2017 23:47
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^ or this the idea of the mansion being destroyed by a bomb came up earlier as an explanation for why it might have been difficult for the police to investigate, the "chewed to pieces by demons" deaths, and for why the game has been so vague about the state of the mansion in Ange's time. if it were set on a timer by someone else that would count as murder i think. the question is who set it.
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Mar 13, 2017 00:02
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resurgam40 posted:Huh... OK, that's a nick: If the key was really in the envelope Maria got from Beatrice earlier that day, that would mean there was no envelope switching and that theory's up the creek... but note that Beatrice omitted when Maria received the key. Maria was told not to open it after all; it could be there was a similar key to the chapel, with the same weight, in the first envelope, and if thart was switched during the night with the real key, it would allow Beato to say the key "did not leave her hands" with no contradiction. Unless I'm misremembering something?... The rest fits into the conspiracy theory. She already basically did that in EP2.  "...Very well. The key to the chapel truly was the object inside the envelope I gave Maria." "Really, then try saying it!! Repetition requested!! 'The envelope handed over midday yesterday and the envelope that Aunt Rosa opened are the same thing'." Well, I guess you can still argue that Beato didn't specify the "midday yesterday" part in the red and that she gave her two envelopes in total. That's good enough, right.
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Mar 13, 2017 00:17
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idonotlikepeas posted:I was thinking poison. After all, I already supposed that others were killed by way of poison food (although really they could have been killed any old way, I just needed some mechanism). I'd like something more personal, though, and relying on Battler eating the poison food is a bit chancy. resurgam40 posted:Hmm. The thing that gets me is the "Yet I am here, now, and am about to kill you", Beatrice is temporally there when Battler is killed. It's very specific. Despite the fact that everyone is dead. Despite the fact that explicitly Battler is alone. I think it requires Beatrice to not be a person. Maybe Beatrice is a concept, or a method? resurgam40, you hypothesised Beatrice as conspiracy, that could work too. Either way, something that lives on beyond of culprits. The other route you could go down is to make it something related to the Ushiromiya family, and have Battler's/Ange's continued existence perpetuate Beatrice even if they themselves are not Beatrice. Everyone's right, both poison and fire could work for the how. Fire even nicely parallels the garden being red. But I don't think the how answers this one, we need to work out exactly who or what Beatrice is. Sindai posted:If multiple people can be "Kinzo", then multiple people can be "Battler", and that easily explains the last few bits of red since we already know something is up with his identity. I'd buy that theory if she'd said "...And right now, there is no one other than Ushiromiya Battler on this island." We already know there are multiple ones. But "you" is very specifically referring to the Battler she's talking to.
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Mar 13, 2017 00:41
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lets hang out posted:^ or this I brought it up and I'm confident in it now. A timed explosion would explain chewed to bits by demons and went to hell. A timed explosion (plus Kanon actually being alive) would explain Jessica 3 profile:  A timed explosion would explain why Rosa would have fled the house with Maria in episode 2: she found the bomb, perhaps? Or she was told of its existence.
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Mar 13, 2017 00:47
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curiousCat posted:I brought it up and I'm confident in it now. A timed explosion would explain chewed to bits by demons and went to hell. A timed explosion (plus Kanon actually being alive) would explain Jessica 3 profile: or she saw the start of a fire/explosion - it would take multiple explosions to knock down a building of that size.
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Mar 13, 2017 01:03
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I believe Rosa was the culprit in that one, so if there was some kind of explosive, or a fire, she would have been party to setting it up. But if she helped set a fire, that doesn't mean she'd be able to stop it, and if someone else (one of the servants, say) was the one who knew how to set up the explosives, she wouldn't necessarily be able to disarm them.
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Mar 13, 2017 01:16
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idonotlikepeas posted:I believe Rosa was the culprit in that one, so if there was some kind of explosive, or a fire, she would have been party to setting it up. But if she helped set a fire, that doesn't mean she'd be able to stop it, and if someone else (one of the servants, say) was the one who knew how to set up the explosives, she wouldn't necessarily be able to disarm them. If Rosa was a conspirator, along with the servants... doesn't that make the first locked room an easy problem? Was the chapel ever locked at all?
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Mar 13, 2017 01:31
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Some pretty neat developments so far. Just got back to the thread after a few days ago, and I saw we were challenged to explain the murders. I'm still refusing to acknowledge the red truths as unchallengeable, and that sets up a pretty flexible theory. There haven't been any murders yet. Kinzo abducted Battler in a fit of pique that his grandson dared the "sin" of leaving the family, and used his rich occult background to get drugs and other brainwashing tools. Battler is currently out of his mind on LSD in Kuwadorian as Kinzo tries to turn his grandson into a properly psychotic rear end in a top hat. Since Battler's parentage is in some doubt, perhaps the reason Kinzo cares so much is that he's related to Original Beatrice. I hope this isn't right. But if I reject the red truth and most of the events depicted as murder island fanfic bottles, it at least seems to line up with some of the existing motives and themes.
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Mar 13, 2017 02:05
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The problem with refusing to acknowledge the red truth is that it results in a really boring game where you don't have any reason to engage with the presented puzzles, and nothing has any point.
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Mar 13, 2017 02:06
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resurgam40 posted:
Just an aside, but hasn't Beatrice ruled out witches as well as normal humans? Witches count as alive, right? And shouldn't "you" refer to meta-Battler rather than piece Battler? After all, piece Battler has been killed before with no harm to meta-Battler. Battler could be killed now by triggering a trap, or dying to a slow acting poison, or a time bomb blowing up the whole house - any form of hands off murder. I agree that Beatrice is a group, rather than an individual, and probably not the same people each time, but I'm too lazy to do a real analysis. After just rereading the first arc I realized how many words this whole thing is. Prof, I tip my hat to you for doing the work. And please don't choose now to stop....
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Mar 13, 2017 02:06
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ProfessorProf posted:The problem with refusing to acknowledge the red truth is that it results in a really boring game where you don't have any reason to engage with the presented puzzles, and nothing has any point. If you don't want to trust it from the perspective of Beatrice the character, who is known by now to be something of a trickster, then try trusting it from the perspective of Ryukishi the author. Ryukishi put this mechanism into the game so that those who want to solve alongside Battler can receive the same information he does. If Battler can acknowledge the anything in red as truth, then it signals that the player should do the same.
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Mar 13, 2017 02:15
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ProfessorProf posted:The problem with refusing to acknowledge the red truth is that it results in a really boring game where you don't have any reason to engage with the presented puzzles, and nothing has any point. I'm not so sure about that. Trying to figure out how the evil genie controls the horizontal and vertical was pretty fun. Can I explain Battler experiencing his own death and resurrection? Professor Layton games have a long tradition of explaining magic with even more absurd science, and I can get pretty far with drugs and hypnosis after playing Wright vs. Layton. The absurd hyperbolic stuff can all be something that some version of Battler perceived. Then we have to figure out why someone went to the trouble of setting it all up. It's not as though this is the first time Umineko set us up to believe in something, then waited for a powerful moment to subvert it. Pulling a last moment table flip and telling us the red truth was fake all along doesn't seem entirely outside of Umineko's capacity. And it could say something thematically about the dangers of engaging with an abuser on their terms.
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Mar 13, 2017 02:23
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The difference is the bullshit drug explanation is by far the most criticized part of AA vs PL's plot between from how out of nowhere it was, lot of post-game plot holes this induces and the reason behind it doesn't seem to justify either the lengths the big bad went through, or the terror that people were subjected to. AA vs PL is on several merits a bad mystery, and Umineko for all it's mocking of a certain type of fan clearly presents itself as that it wants you to figure out the clues from it's presentation, and it's gotchas do not violate it's own rules. And I suspect if it pulled a total "Hahah! We lied to you the player all along!" it would not retain the fandom it has. Robindaybird fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 03:06
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We've seen two cases now where somebody trying to say something in red they believe to be true, but isn't, turns out. So I think doubting it is a bit silly.
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Mar 13, 2017 03:07
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Robindaybird posted:The difference is the bullshit drug explanation is by far the most criticized part of AA vs PL's plot between from how out of nowhere it was, lot of post-game plot holes this induces and the reason behind it doesn't seem to justify either the lengths the big bad went through, or the terror that people were subjected to. I hope so! It looks like things are moving in a more interesting direction than the theory I presented, and I agree that the twist in Layton vs. Wright was disappointing. I'm coming into this LP as someone who had very minimal knowledge about Umineko, and I don't know much about the author. All I really knew about was a red truth / blue truth gimmick of some kind, and that witches were involved. So far, I don't think the game is entirely to my tastes, but it's been a really enjoyable LP regardless! I'm looking forward to seeing where Umineko goes next.
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Mar 13, 2017 03:25
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avoraciopoctules posted:I'm not so sure about that. Trying to figure out how the evil genie controls the horizontal and vertical was pretty fun. Can I explain Battler experiencing his own death and resurrection? Professor Layton games have a long tradition of explaining magic with even more absurd science, and I can get pretty far with drugs and hypnosis after playing Wright vs. Layton. The absurd hyperbolic stuff can all be something that some version of Battler perceived. Then we have to figure out why someone went to the trouble of setting it all up. Look. Red Truth is absolute. That's not a spoiler, that's the game. You can counter Blue, you can question white, etc, but Red is full stop. e: refusing the accept the Red is the human side version of saying Magic Is Real in Red, it results in a stalemate because one side has refused to play by the rules Rody One Half fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 03:59
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Yeah like, anyone here who has played the game will tell you that red truth is for real 100%. Anything stated in red is true. Beatrice and Battler both demonstrated this episode that if a red statement isn't true, they will choke before being able to finish it. You can take that as confirmation that a statement in red must be the truth.
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Mar 13, 2017 04:05
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I have a lot of thoughts on this update buuuuut— my ship! 
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Mar 13, 2017 04:07
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Not pictured: Beatrice as a spike-ridden red sponge, and Battler standing on a box to reach up there. ...Alright, snark aside, this is actually pretty nice. We're about to reach the end of this game. Beatrice said in red that they want to be killed, and it's finally happening. I still remember the North Wind and Sun thing that happened earlier, but I think Beatrice really does want to end here. Rest in peace, my beloved Beatrice... 
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Mar 13, 2017 04:25
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EagerSleeper posted:Not pictured: Beatrice as a spike-ridden red sponge, and Battler standing on a box to reach up there. It makes me wonder what the next 4 chapters will be about. We'll see when we get there.
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Mar 13, 2017 08:39
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Being dead hasn't stopped Battler from playing the game since he died at the end of episode 1, so I doubt it will change anything here. Presumably one of the pair watching over this will unsurprisingly turn on him next and they will be Battler's opponent.
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Mar 13, 2017 11:22
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  Video: Parting Comments BGM: About Face A fork was stuck into a shortcake peeking out of a gift box, and there were decanters with drinks of various colors lined up on a side table. But the color of the partially finished drink that had been poured into a cup was venomous, matching none of the decanters. Someone had probably been playing around, mixing various things together. That can be lots of fun, if you don't mind the taste. On top of the fluffy bed were several colorful, big pillows like something from a dream. And on this bed that looked like something out of a child's dream world, Bernkastel lay face down, and Lambdadelta lay face up, clutching a pillow and relaxing...   "...What a rude witch, to start a game like this and try to end it by throwing it away." "Wasn't Ange a good piece? After Beato ran for it, Ange dragged her back and made her resume the game. Although it's a shame that she gave Battler a little too much enthusiasm." "...After all, I knew Battler was a softy." "No kidding. He looked like he might even go easy on Beato, his enemy." "...I was uneasy that, like the last game, he might actually feel compassion for Beato and take the game in a weird direction. Ange was a trump card to get Battler back on track when he mistook his goal. Although I wanted her to support him a bit more before using her up. She really did get used right off the bat. What a waste for a piece that required so much preparation." "Hehheheheh! Good thing I shackled her with that rule about not giving her name! If that hadn't been set up, the brother-sister tag team would've swallowed Beato up and won in the blink of an eye." "...I thought it'd be a chance for them to press her all at once, but your mark was so restrictive that I couldn't make the best use of her. Aaah, what a waste that piece was." "Well, yeah? That piece was super OP, I needed her out of there, like, yesterday. Well, in the end, she did a good job of preventing the suspension of the game, and that helps me out too. The way she made both our interests match is what made her a truly wonderful piece." "...She was an innocent kid like Battler, so it was easy to get her to do as I said. Morons and impulsive types make the best pieces. Aaah, I really can't stand losing that piece." "By now, that kid's minced meat! Hey, let's make hamburgers out of her later on☆ Oh wait, didn't you like gyoza more? I wonder what little sister tastes like, *giggle*, hilarious!" "...Is it really okay for you to be so relaxed? Thanks to Ange, Battler has gotten all fired up. I'm pretty sure he's started a hot pursuit of Beato, making this game take a big turn in my favor, right...? I mean, didn't Battler just solve almost all the mysteries up until now?"  "...Yeah, it really ticks me off. If it were me, I'd thoroughly cut down all of it with the red." "...Oh, really? And I was sure that those were all correct. Well, I don't know about that small bomb part though." BGM: Happy Maria! (Instrumental)  "Next, Kanon might've died in an accident in the boiler room, but...*giggle*! What kind of accident could drive a stake into his chest? Are you a moron? I'll slice it with that red treasured sword thing."  "The final trap X to kill Natsuhi was also ridiculous. The thing that shot Natsuhi wasn't a trap, it was a real shooting murder with a gun raised and trigger pulled! *giggle* Sucks for you...!" "...You shouldn't do that. Saying something like that in red. That kid's trying to say that she bounced Natsuhi's bullet back with magic and killed her." "Ohohohoh, oh my, how terrible of me, you're right...! Even the blue truth for the second game was way too naive."  "It's also laughable to say that, in the case where Nanjo and Kumasawa were killed in the servant room, someone else inherited Kanon's name. No one else can go by Kanon's name! A different person can't claim that as their name!" "And that theory about borrowing the master key from Rosa for Natsuhi's room is also worthless! After the master keys came into Rosa's control, never did any of them leave her hands! Except for the time when she lent one to Battler to unlock Natsuhi's room. I can keep on going, but just taking a quick look at them turns out like this, get it?" "...Forget taking a quick look, you've just denied Battler's blue truth for the first and second games across the board. My, my, what a shame. If Battler heard, he'd faint." "...Right? Beato wasn't cornered at all. Looks like that kid's a pretty good actress after all. I'm sure she planned to make it look like she was getting cornered this game, and then sometime next game, *bang*, she'll slice it up with a single red stroke to make Battler freak." "*giggle* And then I'm sure she'll say it again with a huge smile. 'Witches neeever get into a pinch'! Pff, *giggle*giggle*giggle*!!" "...Then that whole tragic atmosphere as though Beato was getting cornered was all an act?" "Isn't it obvious?! She really is a great actress! Even though she wasn't cornered at all, it felt like an astonishing, last-episode climax! She's totally the winner for best supporting actress this year!! Oh, but of course I'm the star! You'd do fine too, Beeern!" "...At the end, she said something like 'Kill me' and laid out a big riddle. Wasn't that her last stand, with Beato to be finished for good if that riddle was solved?" "*giggle*giggle*...! Come on, were you seriously tricked too, Bern? That wasn't even close to a last stand! Beato's still holding back a killer hidden move. When she stuck out both hands to give the final riddle, did you notice how she lowered just her right hand?" "...Yeah, now that you mention it. Is that what that meant?" "Sure is! That kid still had plenty of hidden moves left! And none of the mysteries have been solved...!" "That kid's been totally encouraged by her 'North Wind and the Sun Strategy' from last time, right? I'm sure Battler will sympathize with Beato again and fall for it completely...! After all, a single tear from a woman can fool a man, totally economical and profitable!!" "...I wonder if Battler will get caught by the same move again. I've got to spur him on so he never feels sympathy again. Although Ange's mincemeat seems to have done that pretty well." "A power-up from an Ange-flavored hamburger? Ohhohohohohohoho! Of course, I won't lose either. Starting here, I'll thoroughly support Beato to rally her up enough to compete with Battler. Beato won't lose. I mean, I'm threatening her with a wonderful punishment game if she loses♪" BGM: About Face  "I've decided what to do for your next punishment game, Bern. Wanna hear? Wanna hear?" "No." "Come ooon, ask me☆" "Guess what, guess what? I'll lock you in a wonderful, wonderful castle. That castle will be surrounded by pure white castle walls, 12 kilometers to a side. With a height of 10 meters. Magic and tricks are prohibited! You really couldn't jump over that, right?" "1,440,000,000 cubic meters? You can stop there, I already know what you're going to say." "Eheheheheh! And that place will start getting buried with gems, one every day! I'll lock you in it until the castle walls are packed with them, and you've been buried to death with gems. Isn't that a wonderful, romantic punishment game?" "...If you multiply the length of the walls by five and make it one tenth its current height, I wouldn't mind if you shut me in it right now." "Really?! That would make it 3,600,000,000 cubic meters, right?! The time period for the punishment game would more than double, right?!" "Aaahh, I get to keep you as my prisoner for such a long time?! I really like you, Bern, I love you♪"Lambdadelta playfully approached Bernkastel, who yawned, looking bored, as she touched the bottom of Lambdadelta's chin as though cuddling a cat...  "...I wouldn't. Her chances of winning are zero." "Ohohoh! How truly pitiful, being told by the Witch of Miracles that there's no chance of a miracle! Although I wouldn't bet on her either, right?" "I can say that with certainty!" "...It's also pretty sad when the Witch of Certainty says that you're certainly screwed."Unusually for them, they giggled together... "I wonder how this game will resolve itself..." "...Yeah, that's the one thing we can't predict. That's why it's fun." "I won't permit escaping or suspensions any longer. I'll certainly make them continue their game, and I won't let them run away...! Even though I can't even imagine what will happen next, I know it certainly won't end that way." "I mean, think about it. Neither of us is betting on Beato's victory! In other words, if it looks like Beato is gonna win, she'll have us two Great Witches as enemies...!" "...Exactly. Our powers are most in equilibrium when balancing between a tie and Battler's advantage. If it tips too much in Beato's favor, both of us will line up along the same vector and drag Beato back." "In other words, the instant Beato's in a superior position, she'll have to deal with both of us as enemies." "...Ehheheheheh! A common front with Bern, sounds fuuun♪" "...Thanks. But I'm not going into a konpeitou candy bath with you." "Aaaw, and I was gonna cover you with melted marshmallows while taking a konpeitou shower." "...How pitiful. That child is a living toy, a doll you caught so that you could play with me, Lambda." "I'm good at playing with dolls. I really can do it well, okay? I'm proud of being able to play with a single toy for hundreds of years without getting tired of it." "...You're her ally at some times and oppose her at others, toying with her for all eternity. How pitiful. That kid is now our doll." "Hehheheh, that's right, that kid is our doll. No end has been prepared for that kid except the ones the two of us desire. In other words, I can say for sure that this can only end by repeating a tie for eternity because of me, or else with Beato losing and being destroyed because of you, Bern. ...Heheh, as far as this game ending with Beato's victory goes..." "...I will proclaim it as the Witch of Miracles." "Then I will proclaim it as the Witch of Certainty."  BGM: Prison Strip    May we meet again in the next LP.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:24
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And so, Umineko no Naku Koro Ni has finally come to a close. I'm going to take a break for a while, to rest, recuperate, and get a head start on the Chiru backlog. Until then, this thread will remain open for a final round of discussion and speculation. Remember, you theoretically have all the information you need to solve the who, how, and why of the Rokkenjima Incident. This has been a wonderful wild ride; I offer my heartfelt thanks to both the newbies and the witches who have stuck with me to this halfway point. In the meantime, enjoy a teaser for where this wild ride is headed next.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:28
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Well, thank you, imaginary cannibal loli, for saying what we were all thinking. I'll make sure to deny your existence last. So... what now? I guess we see of any of the new red contradicts our theories and then hang out for the next LP? Is there any reason not to buy the first game at this point?
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Mar 13, 2017 13:36
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There is not. Buy that game! Make them give us an announcement for Steam Chiru!
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Mar 13, 2017 13:37
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There's a couple of TIPS coming out in the meantime, provided I can get off my lazy rear end and do some translation.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:05
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Yes, there will be one more bonus update before Chiru. White Day is tomorrow, after all. (Not in any way promising that as a release date, but before chiru starts, at least.) Also, I regret they changed the translation of the last line. "A miracle will certainly not occur!" The witches agree on that much, at least. I hope you all enjoyed the question arcs and Episode 4 specfically. You must have so many burning questions. In time, I'm sure Chiru will satisfy your need for answers. First off is Episode 5, which is probably the consensus pick for Best Umineko Episode. It is, in a word, very very <good> oath2order fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 14:14
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oath2order posted:Yes, there will be one more bonus update before Chiru. White Day is tomorrow, after all. (Not in any way promising that as a release date, but before chiru starts, at least.) Wait, isn't that the 15th? quote:I hope you all enjoyed the question arcs and Episode 4 specfically. You must have so many burning questions. In time, I'm sure Chiru will satisfy your need for answers. First off is Episode 5, which is probably the consensus pick for Best Umineko Episode. It is, in a word, very very <good> I can hardly wait 
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Mar 13, 2017 14:39
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oath2order posted:First off is Episode 5, which is probably the consensus pick for Best Umineko Episode. It is, in a word, very very <good> (Though it is quite good)
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Mar 13, 2017 15:03
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Now that Bern's started to show herself I can say that Bern's face game is among the strongest.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:20
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ProfessorProf posted:
Jeeeezus.  And the thing about Ange-Burgers earlier... Burn all Witches.  I have to ask, because of those last few lines... is Ryukishi07 known to be a fan of Greek tragedy? Because the whole "character guided on tragic path between duty and desire destined for inevitable tragedy crafted by capricious higher beings for their own enjoyment" thing sounds really close to a lot of those stories... Certainty and Miracles may not have been the auspice of any specific god I can think of, but it does seem like Berne and Lambda have between them set up Beatrice as their own personal Antigone.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:46
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oath2order posted:Also, I regret they changed the translation of the last line. "A miracle will certainly not occur!" The witches agree on that much, at least. It's naive, but I feel that the power of humanity, it's "magic" so to speak, is to create impossible miracles. Mostly because I want a happy ending for all, and for Battler to rub the noses of those two brats into the ground. I like when "all powerful extra-planer entities" get smacked down by humans.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:09
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resurgam40 posted:I have to ask, because of those last few lines... is Ryukishi07 known to be a fan of Greek tragedy? Because the whole "character guided on tragic path between duty and desire destined for inevitable tragedy crafted by capricious higher beings for their own enjoyment" thing sounds really close to a lot of those stories... Certainty and Miracles may not have been the auspice of any specific god I can think of, but it does seem like Berne and Lambda have between them set up Beatrice as their own personal Antigone. Certainty would be Ananke, also known as Necessity, one of the primordial deities. Miracles would probably be Hermes, god of magic and trickery. Edit: Notice that they didn't say that last line in red. idonotlikepeas fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 16:13
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Mar 13, 2017 16:26
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idonotlikepeas posted:Edit: Notice that they didn't say that last line in red. 
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Mar 13, 2017 16:28
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Hermes is the god of magic? *wrinkles nose* I've never heard of that aspect, though "trickery"- as it relates to thieves and commercial endeavors (since they turn out to go hand in hand, ho ho), as well as sports, travel and sending messages... and while he was a trickster and not exactly a moral figure, I can't remember any stories about him screwing over people as hard as Berne does. Are you sure you weren't thinking of Hekate, or someone? Ananke is a pro choice for Lambda, though.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:29
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resurgam40 posted:Hermes is the god of magic? *wrinkles nose* I've never heard of that aspect, though "trickery"- as it relates to thieves and commercial endeavors (since they turn out to go hand in hand, ho ho), as well as sports, travel and sending messages... and while he was a trickster and not exactly a moral figure, I can't remember any stories about him screwing over people as hard as Berne does. Are you sure you weren't thinking of Hekate, or someone? He does have some degree of involvement with "sorcery," being kind of a grab-bag god. Hecate might be more appropriate as a god of general witchcraft, but Hermes does have associations with alchemy and Hermetic magic as Hermes Trismegistus (thanks, persona 3), magic systems usually associated with devoting oneself wholeheartedly to a miracle, i.e. the Great Work; since miracles are based on prevailing against the odds a la Kinzo, and Kinzo is Goldsmith and associated with alchemy, it doesn't seem all that inappropriate to me.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:35
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