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Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed. |
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| Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce |
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44 | 21.36% |
| ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress |
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19 | 9.22% |
| Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin |
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9 | 4.37% |
| Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit |
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8 | 3.88% |
| Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died |
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24 | 11.65% |
| Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread |
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17 | 8.25% |
| ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter |
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15 | 7.28% |
| ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming |
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2 | 0.97% |
| Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy |
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10 | 4.85% |
| ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union |
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5 | 2.43% |
| ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die |
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25 | 12.14% |
| Total: | 206 votes | ||
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Yeah, Pissflaps was right, it's a prelude to indyref 2's declaration rather than the big announcement itself. A lot of stuff about the UK government's refusal to compromise with the Scottish government over Brexit & how compromise looks like it won't happen. Oh, wait, as I write this, https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/841253245259513856
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Mar 13, 2017 12:43
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| # ? May 10, 2024 22:49 |
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Formal section 30 request next week. Referendum date is Autumn 2018 "at the earliest"
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Mar 13, 2017 12:44
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After a quick round of "gently caress the English", Sturgeon has indeed announced that there will be another Indyref announcement to announce that if there's another Indyref it'll be no sooner than Autumn 2018, to let Brexit play out a bit first.
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Mar 13, 2017 12:45
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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HJB posted:After a quick round of "gently caress the English", Sturgeon has indeed announced that there will be another Indyref announcement to announce that if there's another Indyref it'll be no sooner than Autumn 2018, to let Brexit play out a bit first. Between Autumn 2018 & Spring 2019. Won't lie. I'm happy. Still think that we'll end up voting to stay in the UK because the economic questions will remain unanswered, but ho hum, worth another shot.
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Mar 13, 2017 12:47
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So is the idea here that the UK leaves the EU in March 2019, and then a referendum even after that allows Scotland to remain in it? How does that work if Scotland was negotiating independence from a country that's no longer an EU member state? The SNP's timeline from 2014 was 18 months?
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Mar 13, 2017 12:56
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I have to assume that Scotland remaining a part of the EU as opposed to rejoining following independence is not something even the SNP is still considering, but I guess we'll hear plenty more about it from the First Minister in the near future.
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Mar 13, 2017 12:59
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big scary monsters posted:I have to assume that Scotland remaining a part of the EU as opposed to rejoining following independence is not something even the SNP is still considering, but I guess we'll hear plenty more about it from the First Minister in the near future. Yeah, Scotland will have to join the EU as a new member, with everything that entails. Which isn't great, clearly. Better than not being in the club tough.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:01
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Apparently Sturgeon claimed she thought the CTA could continue as it is, surely that's not possible if Scotland were to insist an a much more open immigration policy than the UK? I'm not sure why the idea of a hard border with an independent Scotland is portrayed as a ludicrous claim by nationalists: I can't see how one could be avoided.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:06
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It's going to have interesting implications for the island of Ireland (:iamafag:) if the government claims a hard border with an independent Scotland is unavoidable.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:21
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crispix posted:It's going to have interesting implications for the island of Ireland (:iamafag:) if the government claims a hard border with an independent Scotland is unavoidable. yeah, sturgeon is in quite a good position because of this. May can't tell the Irish they'll have a soft border and the Scots a hard one without a big 'why' being asked very loudly.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:24
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JFairfax posted:yeah, sturgeon is in quite a good position because of this. Because Ireland has pursued a broadly similar immigration policy to the UK to keep the CTA working?
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Mar 13, 2017 13:27
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Pissflaps posted:Apparently Sturgeon claimed she thought the CTA could continue as it is, surely that's not possible if Scotland were to insist an a much more open immigration policy than the UK? I doubt that reality would live up to the rhetoric on any radically different immigration policy. It's hot air to energise the base. Much like how talk about tax has never been followed through by the Scottish government using their powers to adopt significantly different income tax bands to the rest of UK.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:42
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https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/841267400804831232
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Mar 13, 2017 13:43
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jesus christ
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Mar 13, 2017 13:49
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"Don't Scotxit our Brexit!" 
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Mar 13, 2017 13:49
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I think it's entirely reasonable for the question of Scottish independence to rest until after the Brexit process is concluded.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:50
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They are still stopping short of saying they will block another referendum, so really nothing new rhetoric-wise. Things should heat up next week after Parliament approves the Section 30 request.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:50
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Pissflaps posted:I think it's entirely reasonable for the question of Scottish independence to rest until after the Brexit process is concluded. "If I die and go to hell, I'm taking you with me" UK PM
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Mar 13, 2017 13:51
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Cerv posted:I doubt that reality would live up to the rhetoric on any radically different immigration policy. It's hot air to energise the base. Much like how talk about tax has never been followed through by the Scottish government using their powers to adopt significantly different income tax bands to the rest of UK. We've only had the ability to have significantly different income bands very recently. In 2016. There's been the Scottish Variable Rate before that, which was a change to all bands up or down by 3p, then we were able to change how much the existing bands paid from 2013 or '14, I forget exactly, but the ability to set different bands came in last year. Can hardly say "it's never been follow through" when they've barely had a chance. Pissflaps posted:I think it's entirely reasonable for the question of Scottish independence to rest until after the Brexit process is concluded. You're wrong.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:52
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CommieGIR posted:"If I die and go to hell, I'm taking you with me" UK PM It would provide the most certainty, if Yes/Leave won an independent Scotland could then choose if it wants to apply to join the EU or not. An independent Scotland might be able to negotiate a better trade deal with the UK than the EU can.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:54
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forkboy84 posted:You're wrong. How?
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Mar 13, 2017 13:55
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forkboy84 posted:We've only had the ability to have significantly different income bands very recently. In 2016. There's been the Scottish Variable Rate before that, which was a change to all bands up or down by 3p, then we were able to change how much the existing bands paid from 2013 or '14, I forget exactly, but the ability to set different bands came in last year. Can hardly say "it's never been follow through" when they've barely had a chance. I stand by my point. They had the opportunity last year and bottled it. Publicly taking a very Tory line of not wanting wealth creators to flee. A lot of consternation in this thread at the time as I recall.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:55
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Pissflaps posted:It would provide the most certainty then if Yes/Leave won an independent Scotland could choose if it wants to apply to join the EU or not. Look, just go back to bitching about Corbyn, its what you are good at. Scotland doesn't want to leave the EU, and with the way Brexit is going, neither does Britain in all reality.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:55
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CommieGIR posted:Look, just go back to bitching about Corbyn, its what you are good at. Scotland doesn't want to leave the EU, and with the way Brexit is going, neither does Britain in all reality. I don't see a specific disagreement here did you just want to have a good whine?
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Mar 13, 2017 13:58
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Cerv posted:I stand by my point. I don't disagree on that part of it. The SNP are loving useless when it comes to being genuinely progressive, good at wearing the clothes and talking the talk but pathetic at walking the walk. Still think your post made it sound like we've had the ability to change income tax bands for a while as opposed to one budget. CommieGIR posted:Look, just go back to bitching about Corbyn, its what you are good at. Please don't lie to him.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:59
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I don't see it being in May's favour to have a referendum after Brexit. It would just give more time for the disaster to set in and make a Yes vote more likely. I would be pushing for the earliest referendum date possible if I were her.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:59
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Leggsy posted:I don't see it being in May's favour to have a referendum after Brexit. It would just give more time for the disaster to set in and make a Yes vote more likely. I would be pushing for the earliest referendum date possible if I were her. Any argument that says Brexit will be a disaster can be applied to Scottish independence.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:01
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forkboy84 posted:Yeah, Scotland will have to join the EU as a new member, with everything that entails. Which isn't great, clearly. Better than not being in the club tough. I'm glad you're so confident that the EU's going to survive after this year, considering France, Holland etc. are going to elect strongly Eurosceptic governments in the next few months. Somebody has to, and I'm not.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:05
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Leggsy posted:I don't see it being in May's favour to have a referendum after Brexit. It would just give more time for the disaster to set in and make a Yes vote more likely. I would be pushing for the earliest referendum date possible if I were her. After we leave, Scotland can decide to not be in the UK or not, and then the EU, which will not include the UK, so there's no chance of bad faith from our government, can decide whether to invite them in if/when the Scoxit negotiations are done and they have any of the institutions of a government.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:06
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Pissflaps posted:Any argument that says Brexit will be a disaster can be applied to Scottish independence. scotland can mitigate brexit by getting back into the EU
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Mar 13, 2017 14:07
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Pissflaps posted:Any argument that says Brexit will be a disaster can be applied to Scottish independence. Difference being that one will be speculative and therefore easier to dismiss as scaremongering. While the other will be actually happening before the voters very eyes.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:08
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JFairfax posted:scotland can mitigate brexit by getting back into the EU It can, but only to a degree. The rest of the UK is by far Scotland's most important trading partner: anything that hurts trade with it - by being on either side of the EU, or by the UK economy collapsing - will hurt Scotland. A 'Civic Nationalist' who seeks a prosperous independent Scotland will be wanting the UK's Brexit negotiations to go well, and for Brexit to be a success, so that a Scotland can continue to prosper thanks to trading with a successful UK.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:10
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Venomous posted:I'm glad you're so confident that the EU's going to survive after this year, considering France, Holland etc. are going to elect strongly Eurosceptic governments in the next few months. Somebody has to, and I'm not. If it ends it's because of violent disagreements either between poorer western European workers and their very rich, who fully endorse the EU, over wage decline, or because of interstate disagreements about the Euro.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:12
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Pissflaps posted:It can, but only to a degree. LOL. Most of the major industries in both Scotland and the UK are owned by groupes external to the UK. It doesn't matter if Britain is closer, the 'trade' will happen regardless if Scotland leaves or stays because the trading value and the market will still exist. Rather ironically, cutting itself off from the EU will do more damage than the UK than Scotland leaving the UK for the EU.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:13
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Venomous posted:I'm glad you're so confident that the EU's going to survive after this year, considering France, Holland etc. are going to elect strongly Eurosceptic governments in the next few months. Somebody has to, and I'm not. Neither of these things are going to happen. Nobody in the Netherlands will work with Wilders mob, he'll be the largest opposition party. And no, the French won't elect Le Pen either. This time. She'll win the first round but will lose to Macron (hell, even Fillion is still polling better than her and that's while he's going through a scandal). Of course, a lovely neo-liberal like Macron will probably just mean the ball gets kicked down the road & the Front National have a good chance next time out. I get being pessimistic after the last few years of politics both here & abroad, but steady on. There's pessimism & then there's defeatism based on fantasy.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:15
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CommieGIR posted:LOL. Most of the major industries in both Scotland and the UK are owned by groupes external to the UK. It doesn't matter if Britain is closer, the 'trade' will happen regardless if Scotland leaves or stays because the trading value and the market will still exist. Rather ironically, cutting itself off from the EU will do more damage than the UK than Scotland leaving the UK for the EU. You think the economic health of a trading partner is irrelevant to the value of that trade? You think that the existence of trading barriers are irrelevant to the value of that trade? 'LOL' indeed.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:16
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Does anyone think May will agree to another referendum ? I don't
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Mar 13, 2017 14:17
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jre posted:Does anyone think May will agree to another referendum ? I don't I think she'll defer it. A moratorium, if you will.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:18
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Pissflaps posted:You think the economic health of a trading partner is irrelevant to the value of that trade? Why do you think Scotland doesn't want to leave the EU?
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Mar 13, 2017 14:18
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Pissflaps posted:It can, but only to a degree. I don't think anyone here wants Brexit to fail, doesn't mean it's not going to. Scotland has the pick of two very uncertain futures. Either it can continue to attach itself to a UK that seems hell bent on self-destruction and is assured a Tory government until halfway through the next decade. Or it can try and remould itself as a part of the EU community. Neither choice is one that I (or Sturgeon for that matter) would have opted for but Brexit has really forced the issue.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:19
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