|
idonotlikepeas posted:Edit: Notice that they didn't say that last line in red. In the Quadrillion to One calculation, Lambda controls the Quadrillion, Bern the One. So no matter how many times Endless Magic rerolls the dice... E: of course Origin witches like MARIA can turn the resulting zero into 1, but Ange-Beatrice (Bern's piece) made the only one around leave 
Rody One Half fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Mar 13, 2017 |
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 16:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 12:04 |
|
|
If it had just been magic or witches, I'd have said Hecate, but if you want a magical miracle, a one in a million chance that transforms the world, Hermes is your boy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 17:17
|
|
|
It seems that Bern and Lamba forgot about how the events tied to them ended, I'll look forward to the fireworks that will come when their game is shattered. After all, I know the truth of the game, just not the route it takes to get there.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 17:23
|
|
|
resurgam40 posted:Hermes is the god of magic? *wrinkles nose* I've never heard of that aspect, though "trickery"- as it relates to thieves and commercial endeavors (since they turn out to go hand in hand, ho ho), as well as sports, travel and sending messages... and while he was a trickster and not exactly a moral figure, I can't remember any stories about him screwing over people as hard as Berne does. Are you sure you weren't thinking of Hekate, or someone? When occultist-types talk about Hermes as the god of magic they're usually talking about Hermes Trismegistus, which isn't exactly the same as Hermes as he was thought about by most ancient Greeks. Mythology is funny that way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 17:26
|
|
|
Hidingo Kojimba posted:When occultist-types talk about Hermes as the god of magic they're usually talking about Hermes Trismegistus, which isn't exactly the same as Hermes as he was thought about by most ancient Greeks. Mythology is funny that way. Oh, him. Yeah, I forgot about that guy, since he's a fusion of both Greek and Egyptian thought, but he is a source magic (and supposedly a real guy, given that he wrote a book, so to speak), and could be related to Kinzo as Poltergrift alludes to... yeah, I guess I could take it, as well as the "god of the long shot" interpretation that Peas puts up.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 17:34
|
|
|
So the games are still going? Even though Beato gave up, essentially? All this new information is making think that the game has shifted to something else. I also have a meta-theory, as it turns out. But I don't know whether or not I should put it in spoiler tags. It's more of a guess about how the story is going to play out. Really, I'm just asking permission to post it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 18:11
|
|
|
I don't think you need to ask to post theories, as long as you don't know for sure that they're accurate. I'll go first: we're trying to solve five murder mysteries, not four. I don't think any of the episodes we've seen so far represent an accurate portrayal of what happened on Rokkenjima.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 18:15
|
|
|
idonotlikepeas posted:I don't think you need to ask to post theories, as long as you don't know for sure that they're accurate. I my experience, it is those who are so convinced in their own theories that they have the hubris to believe a mere hypothesis is so powerful as to become something approaching truth that always end up the most off base and humiliated in the end
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 18:41
|
|
|
Was reading thread as it went and also playing along; have now got ahead and am midway through EP6. I am so excited to see your reactions to EP5.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 18:59
|
|
|
oath2order posted:I my experience, it is those who are so convinced in their own theories that they have the hubris to believe a mere hypothesis is so powerful as to become something approaching truth that always end up the most off base and humiliated in the end Their mistake is in feeling humiliated. In a mystery, anything that fits the facts is accurate enough, for now. As additional facts appear, you may have to propose a new theory, but that doesn't mean that the first one was bad, only created lacking information that you now have. In fact, you should relish this process. Discard the husks of spent arguments with a feeling of satisfaction, because you're moving closer to the truth. If you get too attached to them, you're going to miss it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 19:25
|
|
|
idonotlikepeas posted:Their mistake is in feeling humiliated. In a mystery, anything that fits the facts is accurate enough, for now. As additional facts appear, you may have to propose a new theory, but that doesn't mean that the first one was bad, only created lacking information that you now have. In fact, you should relish this process. Discard the husks of spent arguments with a feeling of satisfaction, because you're moving closer to the truth. If you get too attached to them, you're going to miss it. This is why I respect you, despite your lack of both Love and Magic. You recognize the most fundemental truth of all: The Truth of the Future overwrites the Truth of the Past.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 19:28
|
|
|
Episode 5 is nearly universally considered the best episode for a lot of reasons.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 19:35
|
|
|
oath2order posted:This is why I respect you, despite your lack of both Love and Magic. Speaking of, I've been meaning to say: this LP has been a lot of fun, not just because Prof is a terrifying screenshot machine, but because so many people are participating in so many ways, especially you and tiistai, but everyone who's in your crazy Discord and pops in here to try to convince us of the existence of witches or post bits of non-spoilery fanart or whatever. I don't think this thing would work at all without that, and I certainly don't think I would have written several multi-paragraph posts about an anime murder mystery if it weren't happening. Those of us who don't know the story and are trying to guess how everything works are doing it because you're presenting something for us to push against, and I really appreciate it. I guess what I'm trying to say is, WE'LL GET YOU YET! YOU'LL NEVER CONVINCE US OF MAGIC, YOU CREDULOUS FOOLS! IT'S ALL FAAAAAAAAAKE!
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
It's fascinating how, despite having no programmed-in choice points at all, Umineko remains an extremely interactive experience, just because the fanbase is so active and the game encourages so many conflicting viewpoints to push back and forth from.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 19:44
|
|
|
idonotlikepeas posted:Speaking of, I've been meaning to say: this LP has been a lot of fun, not just because Prof is a terrifying screenshot machine, but because so many people are participating in so many ways, especially you and tiistai, but everyone who's in your crazy Discord and pops in here to try to convince us of the existence of witches or post bits of non-spoilery fanart or whatever. I don't think this thing would work at all without that, and I certainly don't think I would have written several multi-paragraph posts about an anime murder mystery if it weren't happening. Those of us who don't know the story and are trying to guess how everything works are doing it because you're presenting something for us to push against, and I really appreciate it. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 19:48
|
|
|
oath2order posted:This is why I respect you, despite your lack of both Love and Magic. You recognize the most fundemental truth of all: The Truth of the Future overwrites the Truth of the Past. Sufficed to say the Witch chat has a gentlegoon's bet going on about how certain posters will respond to certain parts of Chiru. There's even been pledges to buy avatars if certain conditions are fulfilled.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 19:57
|
|
|
So aside from two animated gifs from the anime, I went into this completely blind and sure am glad I did. One was the Maria's head on a silver platter rolling and laughing with that creepy grin of her's; and the other hasn't happened yet. Looking forward to it in the Answer Episodes.
Fabulousvillain fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Mar 14, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 20:11
|
|
|
Edit: IGNORE ME
oath2order fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Mar 14, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 20:17
|
|
|
oath2order posted:I my experience, it is those who are so convinced in their own theories that they have the hubris to believe a mere hypothesis is so powerful as to become something approaching truth that always end up the most off base and humiliated in the end If this was about me ducking out and not really posting my theories earlier, not really! This thread is a prime place to enjoy a good story and shitpost and I've been enjoying every single moment of it, and being caught up being right or wrong is just something that I don't pay attention to. The reason why I ducked out though from theory posting for a little bit was that I had made a post that Krauss was the one that had killed people in the fourth game with shotguns as soon as it had happened, but no one responded so I was worried that I had accidentally cut off the fun discussion for everyone else before it got a chance to run wild. :p In regards to making theories that are later going to be proven as false, then let me make mine. Everyone was involved in the murders in Rokkenjima and that this is going to be some Murder on the Orient Express story.  Additionally, Episode 5 is going to be about the tragedy of Natsuhi.  Natsuhi's cravat thing and Kinzo. What we know for sure is that Kinzo is dead at the start of the murders. Natsuhi's been living in a house that has a dead body in it, and presumably she's one of the people responsible for keeping that secret. I think it's been hard on Natsuhi finding out that the family she's married into are loving occult assholes and are okay with keeping a dead body around for financial reasons.  Here's Team gently caress Up Krauss' Everything and Get the Money, and they are smiling.  Here's Team Not Get hosed Up. Note how Krauss isn't the focus of this team, because there is a rift in this team between him and them. Also everyone is sad, except for presumably Krauss because that mofo is incapable of doing anything but a smug smile.  All of the adults here on team gently caress Up Krauss' Everything are enjoying a good ol' time of ripping apart Natsuhi.  And Natsuhi doesn't have anyone at her side. She takes all of this alone. She's on Krauss' side, but obviously Krauss isn't on hers. EagerSleeper fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Mar 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 20:59
|
|
|
idonotlikepeas posted:Speaking of, I've been meaning to say: this LP has been a lot of fun, not just because Prof is a terrifying screenshot machine, but because so many people are participating in so many ways, especially you and tiistai, but everyone who's in your crazy Discord and pops in here to try to convince us of the existence of witches or post bits of non-spoilery fanart or whatever. I don't think this thing would work at all without that, and I certainly don't think I would have written several multi-paragraph posts about an anime murder mystery if it weren't happening. Those of us who don't know the story and are trying to guess how everything works are doing it because you're presenting something for us to push against, and I really appreciate it. If magic isn't real then how did I get this delicious marshmallowpumpkin??
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 22:07
|
|
|
EagerSleeper posted:Natsuhi's cravat thing and Kinzo. What we know for sure is that Kinzo is dead at the start of the murders. Natsuhi's been living in a house that has a dead body in it, and presumably she's one of the people responsible for keeping that secret. I think it's been hard on Natsuhi finding out that the family she's married into are loving occult assholes and are okay with keeping a dead body around for financial reasons. Would not shock me if it was Natsuhi's idea to keep his death a secret. Of everyone on the Island she speaks the highest of Kinzo and dislikes any talk bad mouthing him or talking about his death. There was also that scene early on were she talks to Kinzo and he (out of character) praises her, which we now know is a delusion of hers or something because Kinzo was dead already. She kind of seems a tad obsessed with him. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Mar 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 22:24
|
|
|
Alopex posted:If magic isn't real then how did I get this delicious marshmallowpumpkin?? Obviously it's just a marshmallow in the shape of a pumpkin! You can buy those at any candy store with a special order! It's a fun ride, and I'm really looking forward to the next episode. I'm hoping to start contributing to the insanity once I figure out a handhold!
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 22:24
|
|
|
I've not been super into discussing Umineko, so it's interesting that most people agree that EP5 is the best (personally I'd go with EP7). I wonder if the thread will agree... it feels like every reader likes Umineko for slightly different reasons, and there are certainly lots of Opinions out there on Umineko Chiru
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 23:03
|
|
|
Alopex posted:If magic isn't real then how did I get this delicious marshmallowpumpkin?? It was delivered to you when the 18th person X set it gently into trap X (which I won't explain further because devils proof). But I recommend against eating it because it's filled with small bombs. Alternatively, Kanon just handed it to you while wearing a dress and speaking in a falsetto voice.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 23:13
|
|
|
That was an ending. And I'd through that Bern was alright. Turns out she's as much of a dick as Lambda. But yeah, I want to second peas' thanks for all of you mocking our flailing about. It's been a lot of fun. And Prof, you are a monster/hero, and I have no idea how you've dodged RSI. CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Mar 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 23:13
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:Would not shock me if it was Natsuhi's idea to keep his death a secret. Natsuhi: "Dead bodies can have any opinion, including positive opinions of you, that you want them to.  "I wouldn't have a problem seeing that viewpoint. Maybe everyone on the island is hosed up in their own special way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 23:15
|
|
|
EP5 has some of my absolute favorite character moments but from what I remember I prefer EP6 overall. The last time I read them in VN format was when they were released however so I'll have to see how they hold up.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 23:22
|
|
|
CottonWolf posted:That was an ending. And I'd through that Bern was alright. Turns out she's as much of a dick as Lambda. The weirdest thing is that she's completely aware of Lambdadelt's game, and the latter doesn't make any effort at concealing it. This raises the question what the point of that entire charade a while back where Strawberry Shortcake drops her airhead facade as soon as Bern leaves her alone with Beato.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 23:50
|
|
|
Rodyle posted:Episode 5 is nearly universally considered the best episode for a lot of reasons. Because a lot of people are wrong. Seven is the best. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 00:00
|
|
|
Aumanor posted:The weirdest thing is that she's completely aware of Lambdadelt's game, and the latter doesn't make any effort at concealing it. This raises the question what the point of that entire charade a while back where Strawberry Shortcake drops her airhead facade as soon as Bern leaves her alone with Beato. That must have been for Beato's benefit. She required encouragement. Or we forgot some event where Shortcackle accidentally outed her scheme in front of Bern.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 00:36
|
|
|
Dr Pepper posted:Because a lot of people are wrong. Seven is the best. Quoted for truth. Though EP6 was a close second for me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 00:41
|
|
|
Thank you for your work in doing this LP, Prof! This has been a lot of fun, and it's been a really entertaining escape for me during a super hectic period in my life. I've been working on analysis of the closed rooms off and on, but I think there are enough supplemental pieces of evidence from the final update to round it all out. I have a good idea of the "why" of Umineko thanks to earlier back and forths with the rest of the newbies, so here's my crack at the "who" and "how." Sorry about the lack of citations, but hopefully the organization will make checking up on this easy-ish. Before I do, some admittedly risky a priori suppositions: 1) Genji, Kanon, Kumasawa, Nanjo, and Maria are accomplices; 2) as our POV character, Battler is the only reliable witness; 3) Shannon and Kanon can "die" without their physical bodies being clinically dead; 4) Shannon and Kanon are the culprits, but Beatrice is an aspect of Shannon; 5) Other accomplices can vary from episode to episode; 6) Shannon and Kanon's love for George and Jessica is trumped by their alternate personas' desires to kill; 7) It's not about the money, but about that really dark, self-hating kind of poo poo that seems to motivate all kinds of mass murderers. As you'll see, the closed room mysteries are really easy to figure out if alternate personas are indeed a thing in this story. If the room is closed but the person in it is alive, no big deal. Same if the room is actually not locked in the first place. I acknowledge that I might have missed some red text that can/will knock some holes into this. E1: Garden Shed
E2: Chapel
E3: Parlor, First Floor; Guest Room, Second Floor; Waiting Room, Third Floor; VIP Room, Second Floor; Boiler Room, Basement; Chapel, Outside
E4: Jessica's Room
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 00:54
|
|
|
As a bonus Challenge, now might also be a good time to go back and re-read Bernkastel's Letter. Rules X, Y, and Z absolutely exist for this game, and may be the key to unlocking some hidden truths. On that note, I also have two more UMG videos for you. They released 2 for Episode 4. One for the episode itself, and one for the Question Arcs as a whole. Umineko Motion Graphic Volume 4  Umineko Motion Graphic Volume 5 
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 02:06
|
|
|
Why is Ange's name spelled differently in Vol.4? Also the motion graphic really highlights how poorly paced Ep. 4 was. BTW, did fans make these motion graphics?
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 02:32
|
|
|
Violet_Sky posted:Why is Ange's name spelled differently in Vol.4? I highly suggest people watch the 5th one if you haven't been giving them a look. The song is fantastic and you get a look at every major character + event.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 02:38
|
|
|
Tender Child Loins posted:E2: Chapel You know... you're the second person to suggest that Rosa might not be on the up and up in the second episode. When I was composing my pizza fueled ramblings late at night, I glossed over the fact that Rosa was there, in the chapel, when the clock struck, with her siblings. The game even showed us a helpful picture:  So if she was there, in the place that would become the crime scene, on the night that her siblings died... why am I so quick to assume that she wasn't involved, or at least knew, about their deaths? The reason I wasn't asking that question before is because a) it felt too much like a red herring to be the truth at the time, and b) I didn't see what the possible benefit to her was, given that any monetary value was theoretical at that time. But that was before Ep3, after which we knew that the gold was real, a true windfall for any one of these people needed yesterday... So what if, in the scene where Maria allegedly got her new marshmallow candy, Beatrice struck a deal with Rosa instead: play along with me and get your siblings to the chapel, and I'll give you as much gold as you want? If that were the case, then maybe the door to the chapel was never locked, and Rosa pretended it was- that would mean that this was another closed room that wasn't, set up for Battler's pleasure. ... Actually, introducing the gold really casts a different light on the rest of Rosa's actions for this chapter. Because... wasn't Rosa really, uncharictaristically aggressive in accusing the rest of the servants, under the guise of protecting the remaining kids? ProfessorProf posted:
At the time, we all thought it was the power of having a gun and being the new head of the family rushing to her head, but... that was before I truly suspected the servants, Shannon in particular, of being the culprits. What if the reason she is being so distrusting of the servants here... is because she knows good and well that they are untrustworthy murderers, because she saw them doing it? This might be fueled by horror and disgust at the actual crime scene- murder is one thing, but that is defilement-, and anger that Jessica was killed as well (perhaps Beato said she'd leave the kids alone?) as well as a desire to deflect suspicion from herself... but it is a distinct possibility I had in mind. And you know, this isn't the first time an ostensibly innocent character was portrayed by the game as being last seen at the scene of a crime. In Ep1:  Oh, look, there Hideyoshi and Eva are, arguing with people who would all get dead the next morning. Could a similar deal have been have been made with them: as much gold as you can carry if you do as I say? They do some similar deflection on the servants (and Natsuhi) that Rosa does one chapter later... and as others have pointed out, they do a much better job of controlling the scene than Rosa does. The kids saw the chapel murders in all of their gory glory, but nobody else entered the shed, except for the people I now suspect... and Hideyoshi. So what exactly was the bargain here? Obviously they were meant to hide something, but what? Was the murder weapon found in here, guns or a hoe dumped in the corner? Or... Tender Child Loins posted:E1: Garden Shed Shannon's body was blocked by a bunch of things and was only seen by Kanon and Hideyoshi... was there something about the body they wanted to hide? Was there a body at all?
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 03:17
|
|
"...If you thought that someone other than Kanon-kun was a wolf, then causing that uproar by saying that Kanon-kun was the culprit in Jessica's room was to see the servants' reactions...?"
"Yes, that's right. And as a result, I began to suspect them even more. There certainly is a wolf among the servants. Certainly. And, just like the 'Wolves and Sheep Puzzle', while they are normally docile, they will surely attack if they get the chance."
"...Jessica-chan was a lone sheep on the boat. In that puzzle, they may not attack when there is a balance between wolves and sheep, but our puzzle is different. Depending on the opportunity and the number of people, they'll attack even if there is a balance. Just like when Jessica-chan was killed!"
"...Th, there's something I don't like! In that case, Shannon, who you had go to the kitchen, is in a dangerous situation, right?!! We should also go to the kitchen right now! No matter who might or might not be a wolf! If we can form a balance by gathering together, I think we should maintain that!!"
"...Shannon-chan went to see Father along with Genji-san. At that time, she was supposedly isolated, but she wasn't killed. Because Genji-san wasn't a wolf either?"
"...Wh... why are you... saying... something like that...?"
|
Speaking of fan made videos, someone did an anime version of the final scene where Beatrice asks to be mercy-killed. Considering how terrible the actual anime was in handling that scene, it's pretty neat.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 03:22
|
|
|
 Hey, guys! Guess what we haven't done for Episode 4? A manga highlights post! Babby Ange:  Beato is still swag as gently caress:  Sakutaro the toy:  Thanks, Eva:  A villain appears:  The birth of Sakutaro:  Ange and Mammon:  Beato cheers Battler up:  Tag team:  Blue Turth formatting:  Maria's magic of happiness:  Ange realizes the truth:  The death of Sakutaro:  Lambda gives Ange a hint:  Kinzo summons some bunnies:  MARIA VS the Black Witch:  A promise unfulfilled:  A new demon lord rises:  Jessica makes her decision:  Determination becomes magic:  George VS Gaap:  Just kidding:  Sadly, the manga reduces goat-kun's role to basically just this page:  Repent:  Battler fails his test:  Battler's qualifications are revoked:  Magic is real:  Ange defeats Eva:  Knight sacrificed:  Endgame begins:    Kinzo is put to rest:  The true battle begins:  Red and Blue clash:  Beatrice defeated:  The final mystery:  Witchdorf and Cackler:  See you in EP5.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 03:48
|
|
|
Dying Eva looks crazy. And drat, Rosa was cold to shove Sakutarou in Maria's face.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 03:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 12:04 |
|
|
Rosa can be incredibly spiteful when she wants to.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 04:03
|
|