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I think we can all agree that the worst thing about shugoki by far is that their heel click emote can only be done by bots.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:53
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Shugoki options against someone who's turtling: Your light is just as fast as half the other character's lights. You can complain about it being too slow but you've got more options than most characters and your whining comes off as really grating.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:56
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Shugoki options against someone who's turtling: Feint to bait out the parry.
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Mar 13, 2017 22:05
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NeurosisHead posted:Feint to bait out the parry.
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Mar 13, 2017 22:07
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Just charge them over and over again. Since you're running at mach 5 you will hardly ever get punished and you get a free heavy when you connect. Your using one the the best characters for breaking defensive players and whining about it.
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Mar 13, 2017 22:40
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I find that vs good defensive players opening them up is almost always about mind games than it is applying a specific move/attack/strategy. Unless I'm playing PK, then I just spin my stick and light attack and zone attack randomly.
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Mar 13, 2017 22:50
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Captain Beans posted:I find that vs good defensive players opening them up is almost always about mind games than it is applying a specific move/attack/strategy. in that guy's case, he needs to use the feint game more, as it is the primary method of baiting out things so you can punish them
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Mar 13, 2017 23:11
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cams posted:lol complaining about "turtles." It's an actual problem though when it comes to warlord, who's pretty much the best character in the game right now with how powerful pure defensive play is, not to mention that they have so many tools anyway that all give guaranteed damage.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:36
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NeurosisHead posted:Feint to bait out the parry. This. Feinting is how you gently caress a defensive character's poo poo up, ESPECIALLY as Shugoki since you can draw out the parry and then win the trade of heavies because of your super armor. Watched a stream where a Shugoki was intentionally baiting hits to get to red then intentionally doing a trade into the bear hug to literally murder them immediately in one hit. Went through like 5 duels where he'd do it at least once to each of them, and then he'd clown on them with feints for the other rounds after crushing their spirits so thoroughly. Guy was a goddamn artist. 
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Mar 13, 2017 23:44
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Every class is viable if your feint game is good. Every class is equally good at baiting out parries and punishing them if you can play mind game. It's just retarded that they gave some classes so many tools and some absolutely none. Making Warden: Alright let's give him a great overhead to interrupt heavies, a double side light, a fast long ranged zone attack, and quick guard stance changes. To help fight defensive players let's also give him a variable distance unblockable shoulder charge that can be done from any dodge direction, and can be cancelled into a guard break or followed up with a quick attack. Making Conquerer: How about an unpunishable shield bash that can be done repeatedly forever, and if you get someone out of stamina or backed into a wall its basically a death sentence. Oh and a near instant full block stance. Making Kensei: Well he's the same archetype as Warden...but we kind of already gave him a ton of good tools and we don't want to just copy that...how about a slightly longer weapon with way, way slower light attacks and an unblockable thats crazy easy to dodge? I guess a dash GB for catching someone who is literally tabbed out of the game an wont see it coming? Making Raider: gently caress I'm out of ideas, just give him a long throw I guess? Making Peacekeeper: Just make her attacks really really fast and give her a bleed or something.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:36
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Are you arguing that Peacekeeper needs anything else in the game's current state?
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Mar 14, 2017 00:48
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Gear (even this current hosed up implementation) I think would be mostly fine if it didn't require a huge investment to get. My only real problem with it is that it disincentivizes playing low level characters in 4v4 games.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:48
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FunkMonkey posted:Are you arguing that Peacekeeper needs anything else in the game's current state? Hell no, but her design is pretty lazy. She's only good because she's so fast she's basically playing a different game than every other class.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:50
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well feints are cool if you have unblockables i guess, if you dont who gives a poo poo.
Tha_Joker_GAmer fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 01:01
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Fuzz posted:This. I really need to focus on this, I guess. Looking up the frame data for Shugoki, every attack he has predictably takes longer to come out than every other character. Doesn't work out too well against someone with good reflexes, so his entire kit is kind of useless unless you're baiting them into trying to attack you with feints. This is essentially a fighting game even though the mechanics are different in a fundamental way, it makes sense that high level play will end up looking ridiculous. I'm watching tournaments of people who are really good at the game and it's the same sort of twitching back and forth endlessly without actually attacking that you see in Tekken or Melee.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:01
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:every attack he has predictably takes longer to come out than every other character. Kensei's side light attacks are waaaaay slower
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Mar 14, 2017 01:08
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:It's just retarded that they gave some classes so many tools and some absolutely none. Then you have Lawman, who actually has a pretty good amount of tricks in his arsenal, but none of them really do anything for him most of the time, while mostly being good at helping allies knock someone around. Like if you gave him a guaranteed heavy off NO SUPESTES or something, he'd probably take a pretty decent step up in 1 on 1 usefulness right there.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:15
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Took a few days off from the game, didn't play all weekend. First game I attempt this evening errors out with the game 3/4 of the way finished. So incredibly frustrating. 
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Mar 14, 2017 01:24
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I really wish they'd make it where if you're almost dead you can't sprint. Having to chase people down when they bitch out is getting old.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:26
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Yardbomb posted:Then you have Lawman, who actually has a pretty good amount of tricks in his arsenal, but none of them really do anything for him most of the time, while mostly being good at helping allies knock someone around. I really do think they balanced the game around different game modes. It's pretty clear that characters like Raider and Lawbringer are supposed to be better in 4v4. However that's an incredibly loving stupid way to balance a game because a class being good at 1v1 doesn't make them worse at 4v4, but a character being designed for 4v4 obviously makes them shittier at duels.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:31
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:I really do think they balanced the game around different game modes. It's pretty clear that characters like Raider and Lawbringer are supposed to be better in 4v4. However that's an incredibly loving stupid way to balance a game because a class being good at 1v1 doesn't make them worse at 4v4, but a character being designed for 4v4 obviously makes them shittier at duels. Outside of PK (fast as gently caress), Warlord (if they play defensive max it sucks), Conq (if they play defensive max it sucks) I feel like all the other classes are on pretty good footing, well minus lawbringer really who is indeed better in 4v4 modes than 1v1.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:46
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Captain Beans posted:Outside of PK (fast as gently caress), Warlord (if they play defensive max it sucks), Conq (if they play defensive max it sucks) I feel like all the other classes are on pretty good footing, well minus lawbringer really who is indeed better in 4v4 modes than 1v1. Nah, Warden is overall just a way better class than either of its counterpart Vanguards, mainly because of that shoulder check and overall speed. That said, gently caress the Warden, Kensei is way more fun and rewarding to play.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:54
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meat on a Friday posted:Kensei's side light attacks are waaaaay slower Yeah, overlooked that. I'm going off these, assuming they're correct: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/5v95fy/character_attack_speed_list/ 90 frames for a zone attack as well, good lord. e: and Raider side lights are slow as hell apparently. I never really see anyone playing them.
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Mar 14, 2017 02:10
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For active guard classes, if I block an attack or get hit, can I hold my mouse/right stick to the right to get the guard to come out as soon as I leave hitstun, or do I have to move from neutral to right when I'm able to block to get the block up?
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Mar 14, 2017 02:58
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Yeah, overlooked that. I'm going off these, assuming they're correct: The zone hits everywhere but straight ahead of you in those 90 frames, too. You can apparently unlock and turn left immediately on starting it to catch people immediately by surprise, but it's risky as gently caress and if they're blocking left they have free reign to punish you and probably kill you before you can regain lock and block in the correct direction. In duels you basically will rarely get off the three hit unless they suck, and the unblockable top is literally only to be used I that rare circumstance where you dash GBed and threw them when they were out of stamina, so they're on the ground, or you throw them into a wall. Basically, situations where they can't block anyway. There's a way to feint directly back into it to throw off the timingbut I suck poo poo at managing it and even if you do it's risky since they can still just roll sideways and punish you and, more importantly, you'd already use stamina to start the combo and that would burn up more. Honestly I have more luck baiting people into loving up teching your dash GB for a free overhead heavy than I do with all of that poo poo. As Kensai you basically need to peacock a lot and do dashing forward blocks with no attack or GB a lot to throw them off so they won't know what the hell to expect from you. I find the matches where I'm not unpredictably dashing forward at them randomly are the ones I either do poorly or just straight lose. I will say I'm not a Kensei or even dueling expert by any stretch... I'd rate myself as mediocre, maybe above average but not by much. Still, it's a fun class. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 03:32
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The ZA does have hyper armor from start to finish so it's not all bad. Also, even if they parry it, it can be hard to punish effectively.
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Mar 14, 2017 04:26
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fadam posted:Gear (even this current hosed up implementation) I think would be mostly fine if it didn't require a huge investment to get. My only real problem with it is that it disincentivizes playing low level characters in 4v4 games. This is my biggest issue tbh I liked playing different characters a bunch. I usually don't stick to just one character...but now I feel at a disadvantage doing so and I can't help but feel compelled to "grind it out" on one character to get the gear level up so my stats improve... This is murdering my interest in the game. It's way chiller if you can just pick any character and have good odds right off the bat
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Mar 14, 2017 08:18
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Some gear stats just need to be toned down a bit. I only really feel disadvantaged when my opponents are getting revenge every 3 or so seconds.
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Mar 14, 2017 08:33
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People are boosting their dmg as well. I've been two-shot by people in revenge mode while I have to hit a dude four hundred thousand times to kill him
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Mar 14, 2017 08:36
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Wouldn't hurt to have revive speed toned down a bit in 4vs4 either, had to kill a team practically 3 times because their team had full revive gear and a few with the passive, they revived in under a second, they could revive a teammate by the time my swing hit them.
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Mar 14, 2017 11:04
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Wouldn't hurt to have revive speed toned down a bit in 4vs4 either, had to kill a team practically 3 times because their team had full revive gear and a few with the passive, they revived in under a second, they could revive a teammate by the time my swing hit them.
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Mar 14, 2017 11:10
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Wouldn't hurt to have revive speed toned down a bit in 4vs4 either, had to kill a team practically 3 times because their team had full revive gear and a few with the passive, they revived in under a second, they could revive a teammate by the time my swing hit them. Even non-buffed revive speed is reason #2 why anything but 1v1 is dogshit in this game.
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Mar 14, 2017 11:21
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Casnorf posted:Can't revive a dude what's been thrown off a bridge. Depending on where they land, you definitely can.
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Mar 14, 2017 13:09
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It is the year 1284. Bridges exist. Guardrails are made of titanium. Highly sought after, rarely used.
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Mar 14, 2017 13:47
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10 Beers posted:Depending on where they land, you definitely can. Well, sure, if you wanna get semantic about it! Don't throw'em those places! Huck'em offa ledge into a pit or out of bounds, of course.
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Mar 14, 2017 13:50
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Throw them into a shallow fountain! Instant death and can never be revived Fountains of doom
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Mar 14, 2017 13:53
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Honestly, that one's probably my favourite environmental hazard. Foot-deep puddle of doom.
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Mar 14, 2017 14:01
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There's too many good games at the moment so I'm out of this game until they add some new content and fix what needs fixing. It's kinda crazy how slow they're being at patching out big bugs and stuff like the debuff resistance giving extra time to counter GB or whatnot. Then you've got stuff like "gear is meant to be a sideways upgrade" and you realise they made a technical fighter without playtesting it all.
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Mar 14, 2017 14:01
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Double Bill posted:Even non-buffed revive speed is reason #2 why anything but 1v1 is dogshit in this game. Learn to execute? 
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Mar 14, 2017 14:47
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Kamikaze Raider posted:Learn to execute? He knows how to execute. Anyone who plays this game knows. Sometimes you finish with a light hit but you know that also.
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Mar 14, 2017 14:57
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