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Slugworth posted:Marvel being able to consistently pump out movies is surely the result of tighter studio control over the directors. Don't get me wrong, I like them for the most part, but it's more akin to getting TV episodes out rather than movies. Nobody is surprised when Game Of Thrones puts out 5 movie runtimes worth of content every year. Almost every major movie studio releases movies faster and in greater quantities than Marvel (2 per year) right now. There is a meme that Marvel is like a TV studio, but it really doesn't apply at all here. Every major film studio is able to release movies at the pace that WB/DC studios is able to and none of them have this many production issues across so many films. It actually is an issue at their studio or several extreme coincidences/outliers happening all at the same time.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:46
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Getting bashed in the press after you think you've got a winner on your hands 2-3 times has probably reactionarily hosed up the decision making process in their heads.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:56
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Almost every major movie studio releases movies faster and in greater quantities than Marvel (2 per year) right now. There is a meme that Marvel is like a TV studio, but it really doesn't apply at all here.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:53
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Detective No. 27 posted:Isn't that basically what Geoff Johns is there for? Sure. But I more so meant someone like the actual person Kevin Feige. Him being someone not from the comic book industry, and someone who was more involved with the movie industry, I think that's the difference. His experience as a producer is a boon to the MCU. Just look at Feige's producing credits pre-MCU compared to Johns pre-DCEU.
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Mar 14, 2017 03:14
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well they have Zack Snyder and Christopher Nolan who are pretty good movie dudes
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Mar 14, 2017 03:14
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Chris Nolan is great, but his involvement as a producer in the DCEU in nowhere near the level of control Feige has over the MCU. I'm personally fond of Snyder as a director and have enjoyed all his films, but the DCEU has suffered from not having someone aside from Snyder, Goyer, Nolan, or whoever to rein everything in under a consistent vision all the way through.
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Mar 14, 2017 03:20
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There was actually a rumor that Matt Reeves walked away from The Batman because WB tried to assert control over the movie. Reeves only returned after WB relented and grant him total creative freedom, the same one they apparently gave to James Wan and Zack Snyder.
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Mar 14, 2017 03:36
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Snowman_McK posted:Anybody can have a good idea for a scene, but not everyone can follow through and communicate that idea to everyone. In this case, throw the bag marked Kickass 2 in the garbage and use the other one.
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Mar 14, 2017 03:40
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teagone posted:Chris Nolan is great, but his involvement as a producer in the DCEU in nowhere near the level of control Feige has over the MCU. I'm personally fond of Snyder as a director and have enjoyed all his films, but the DCEU has suffered from not having someone aside from Snyder, Goyer, Nolan, or whoever to rein everything in under a consistent vision all the way through. DC has two stellar films and one interesting heap of odds and ends that's still better than, say, Thor 2, so it's maybe a bit soon to diagnose those them as having some sort of systematic problem.
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Mar 14, 2017 03:51
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Sir Kodiak posted:DC has two stellar films and one interesting heap of odds and ends that's still better than, say, Thor 2, so it's maybe a bit soon to diagnose those them as having some sort of systematic problem. I'll be one of the first to go to bat for the DCEU as I'm a bigger fan of the DC stable in general. But it's hard to ignore the notion that something is systematically wrong with the production of DCEU films when you can read about all the conflict-of-interest issues that plagued Suicide Squad, the whole solo Batman movie fiasco, and The Flash movie spiraling downward into limbo. All of these problems happened post-appointment of Geoff Johns as head of creative for DC Entertainment too. [edit] That said, I'm hoping Wonder Woman is a hit. I'm all in with her, as I got my start reading comics with the character. So the film being well received by audiences and a critical darling is all I really want to happen. I've got more invested in that movie, so if it ends up being divisive like the three DCEU films that preceded it, I'm gonna be so bummed. But man, it'd be so great if it's Wonder Woman that rights the DCEU ship 
teagone fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 04:41
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So hype for Aquaman, it's been so long since we had a good underwater movie.
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Mar 14, 2017 06:45
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teagone posted:I'll be one of the first to go to bat for the DCEU as I'm a bigger fan of the DC stable in general. But it's hard to ignore the notion that something is systematically wrong with the production of DCEU films when you can read about all the conflict-of-interest issues that plagued Suicide Squad, the whole solo Batman movie fiasco, and The Flash movie spiraling downward into limbo. All of these problems happened post-appointment of Geoff Johns as head of creative for DC Entertainment too. I don't see the DCEU to be in such a dire situation, it might seem like that simply because the internet is combing with magnifying glass the slightest news about it that come out. I mean, while is true that Flash is in development hell right now. Aquaman, JL and now WW are moving forward with no real issues to speak of. And even the whole thing with The Batman doesn't seem to be suffering from extraordinary circumstances either. Like PR2 or Godzilla: King of the Monsters had a more complicated development process and no one screamed they were done for.
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Mar 14, 2017 06:50
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It's not dire in the sense that WB will stop making DCEU movies, no. I'm just commenting on Drifter's original question of why it's so hard for WB to get their DCEU films made in comparison to Marvel and their cinematic universe. The issue I have with what happened with the DCEU's solo Batman film is that talks with Matt Reeves fell through likely because WB wouldn't give him creative control, and so he walked. Then a few weeks later Matt Reeves signs back on the project. Like, good lord WB, why couldn't you come to an agreement the first time? Sure, the negotiations were definitely more complicated and had terms/agreements that I'm totally unaware of, but that to me shows a sign of what's partially responsible for WB having a rocky start to their DC movie universe.
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Mar 14, 2017 07:29
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teagone posted:It's not dire in the sense that WB will stop making DCEU movies, no. I'm just commenting on Drifter's original question of why it's so hard for WB to get their DCEU films made in comparison to Marvel and their cinematic universe. The issue I have with what happened with the DCEU's solo Batman film is that talks with Matt Reeves fell through likely because WB wouldn't give him creative control, and so he walked. Then a few weeks later Matt Reeves signs back on the project. Like, good lord WB, why couldn't you come to an agreement the first time? Sure, the negotiations were definitely more complicated and had terms/agreements that I'm totally unaware of, but that to me shows a sign of what's partially responsible for WB having a rocky start to their DC movie universe. While they aren't 1:1 with Marvel, they are on track for having a public-ish dispute with talent. I remember when Mickey Rourke got super low-balled coming off of an Academy Award nomination and publicly threatened to walk. It was around the same time, movie-wise. I agree that losing Rick Famuyiwa hosed up their Flash plans, but the Batman stuff seems business as usual put under a microscope.
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Mar 14, 2017 07:39
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MonsieurChoc posted:So hype for Aquaman, it's been so long since we had a good underwater movie. Apparently it will look like Game of Thrones combined with Avatar. I expect a lot medieval-looking things accentuated with bio-luminescence.
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Mar 14, 2017 07:48
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"Consistent vision" is a nice way of saying "films too boring to be worth watching" so I don't know why you'd want that.
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Mar 14, 2017 11:51
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Hodgepodge posted:"Consistent vision" is a nice way of saying "films too boring to be worth watching" so I don't know why you'd want that. It'd be cool if WB would consistently give the directors making films for their DCEU creative control and have them each be their own unique thing while still being part of an overarching narrative. I think that's what they originally said they were doing with their cinematic universe, but then they hosed up with Suicide Squad. Hopefully we won't later learn of WB meddling with the production of Wonder Woman after its release. Fingers crossed!
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Mar 14, 2017 13:18
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Hodgepodge posted:"Consistent vision" is a nice way of saying "films too boring to be worth watching" so I don't know why you'd want that. Hey, Godfather Pt I and II had consistent vision and they turned out good 
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Mar 14, 2017 14:40
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teagone posted:It's not dire in the sense that WB will stop making DCEU movies, no. I'm just commenting on Drifter's original question of why it's so hard for WB to get their DCEU films made in comparison to Marvel and their cinematic universe. The issue I have with what happened with the DCEU's solo Batman film is that talks with Matt Reeves fell through likely because WB wouldn't give him creative control, and so he walked. Then a few weeks later Matt Reeves signs back on the project. Like, good lord WB, why couldn't you come to an agreement the first time? Sure, the negotiations were definitely more complicated and had terms/agreements that I'm totally unaware of, but that to me shows a sign of what's partially responsible for WB having a rocky start to their DC movie universe. Because DC uses film directors instead of TV directors. It's easier to reign in guys that have done a lot of TV and are looking to make a jump to big-budget film production and are therefore willing to make adjustments to their vision to do that, than it is to reign in more proven talent with their own vision and get them to sacrifice it for company.
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Mar 14, 2017 16:37
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Darko posted:Because DC uses film directors instead of TV directors. It's not even about the creative side of it. There is something wrong with the WB/DC administrative process at the studio. They are: Constantly going over budget Long production delays that end up requiring them to write a script in 6 weeks to stay on schedule Not putting a script or even a draft outline together before they hire directors Using the same staff for a lot of the movies that are in production simultaneously, so if someone screws up then it ripples down the chain and causes delays and issues with other movies Studio execs allowing Snyder to make a 3-hour and 15 minute movie, but not wanting to release a 3-hour and 15 minute movie in theaters Allowing friends and family of directors and crew to get jobs and keep them even after they have issues Setting firm release dates and backing out over and over Deciding which sequels to greenlight based on how the last movie did with no long-term planning Outsourcing the advertising and trailers to 3rd party production companies (this is not itself a terrible thing, but they have had issues with either bad trailers or trailers that do not accurately portray the movie) Doing script rewrites and edits last minute because of the performance of the last movie they released None of this is going to sink the studio, but some of it does have a noticeable impact on movie quality and perception. It's not something that movies with 9-figure budgets and the support of one of the oldest movie production companies should be constantly having. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 18:18
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When has Snyder not done a overlong movie that the studio had to cutdown? I think even Dawn of the Dead was like that.
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Mar 14, 2017 18:19
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those are things that happen in Marvel as well though  Here's my question, is Disnel/Marvel just better about controlling what goes to press or gets "leaked" than DC/WB? For some reason I feel like that is the biggest difference, and of course it likely comes from the fact that Marvel is loved by everyone so when Edgar Wright walks we are more accepting of it instead of when Ben Affleck goes "holy gently caress you people won't stop hounding me, I'm not going to direct the Batman movie anymore" and then every naysayer gets all  and releases a whole bunch of "see? didn't I tell you the DCEU was gonna tank? look how right I was"
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Mar 14, 2017 18:25
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When have they set a firm release date and then backed out? Also pretty much all of the rest of those have been happening with the new Star Wars movies so far.
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Mar 14, 2017 18:27
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Also, that thing about rewrites and reshoots are completely unfounded rumors and things that happen to every movie. Hell, Spiderman Homecoming recently went to do some reshoots and I don't see anyone bitching about it.
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Mar 14, 2017 18:32
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Drifter posted:Why is it so hard for them to get all their ducks in a row? To be fair we're comparing DCEU Phase One to MCU Phase 3. The MCU pumped out 12 films over their first 7 years and the DCEU will put out 11 over the same period if they can manage to get The Batman and Flash into cinemas before the end of 2020.
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Mar 14, 2017 18:32
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Chairman Capone posted:When have they set a firm release date and then backed out? Ant Man got moved forwards from November 6 2015 to July 31 and then forwards again to July 17. Edit: Black Panther also got moved from November 3 2017 to July 6 2018 when Spider-Man: Homecoming was announced and then back to February 16 2018 to make room for Ant-Man and The Wasp. They moved a few of the other Phase Three movies as well. Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 18:34
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Aces High posted:those are things that happen in Marvel as well though Almost every one is a universal quality of movie studios. Nepotism? Rewrites? Short term planning? C'mon
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Mar 14, 2017 18:41
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Also Marvel got off to a really popular start with Iron Man but DC ran into "Not my Superman!" problems right away so the public perceptions and expectations just weren't the same at all.
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Mar 14, 2017 18:45
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Darko posted:Because DC uses film directors instead of TV directors. Uh, Favreau, Leterrier, and Branagh were most definitely *not* looking to make the jump to big-budget film production. In fact, I think the first "true" TV-director to helm a Marvel project was Alan Taylor with Thor II, not counting Whedon because he did Serenity. And even now, most of their guys have some film experience. Seems to me like Taika Waititi and Jon Watts are the least experienced of the bunch, compared to Scott Derrickson and Ryan Coogler.
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Mar 14, 2017 18:49
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I'm sure Marvel was like "the guy who directed SERENITY?! Hell yes give him a call!!!!"
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Mar 14, 2017 18:56
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:None of this is going to sink the studio, but some of it does have a noticeable impact on movie quality and perception. It's not something that movies with 9-figure budgets and the support of one of the oldest movie production companies should be constantly having. I think perception is a big thing with this all. I mean, I know this is anecdotal, but this thread is pretty much the only place where I ever see praise for the DCCU. I'll constantly see people be positive or at worst ambivalent to Marvel films while they talk about how bad the DC films are. Even people I know that have no interest in the super hero movie genre will talk about how they heard that the WB/DC films are dumpster fires.
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Mar 14, 2017 19:00
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Neo Rasa posted:I'm sure Marvel was like "the guy who directed SERENITY?! Hell yes give him a call!!!!" That's not really the point. I'm just disputing the claim that Marvel has used nothing but TV guys for their films by pointing out that several directors already had some box office success (financially speaking, I am NOT going to call Elf a good movie) before being brought on board to the MCU.
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Mar 14, 2017 19:07
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Mordiceius posted:I think perception is a big thing with this all. on the other hand everybody I know IRL thinks Suicide Squad is dope as gently caress
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Mar 14, 2017 19:11
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The Marvel/TV director thing made sense in the period when you had Whedon having just made Avengers and Marvel hiring Alan Taylor and the Russos to do phase-two movies. It ignored people like Kenneth Branagh and Joe Johnston, and now it definitely doesn't stand up to their next four movies coming from James Gunn, Taika Waititi, Ryan Coogler, and Jon Watts.
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Mar 14, 2017 19:12
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Scyantific posted:That's not really the point. I'm just disputing the claim that Marvel has used nothing but TV guys for their films by pointing out that several directors already had some box office success (financially speaking, I am NOT going to call Elf a good movie) before being brought on board to the MCU. You monster. SleepCousinDeath posted:on the other hand everybody I know IRL thinks Suicide Squad is dope as gently caress 
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Mar 14, 2017 19:17
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Hey I'm with him, at some point Elf turned into a beloved Christmas movie when I wasn't looking. Was it even a success before syndication?
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Mar 14, 2017 19:19
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I don't know anyone who has even seen Suicide Squad, but both my sisters liked Batman v Superman, and they're as IRL as it gets.
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Mar 14, 2017 19:28
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my favourite vox populi regarding comic books movies last year was this: I was involved in an elementary school production April-May last year and I often heard the kids talking about the movies they had just seen. I asked some them who their favourite super hero was and I think every kid that said "Batman is my favourite" also said "Batman v Superman was great, I don't get why everyone hates it". Also my cousin, who absolutely loves comic books and every comic book movie (though I haven't asked him his opinion of Suicide Squad), told me straight up that BvS was far superior to Civil War. I remember trying to get a dialogue going because I was dumbfounded that he had that opinion and his basic problem was that Civil War was a continuation of Age of Ultron, so the status quo remains and there was no real development of any characters. Of course on the flip side two of my other cousins have not seen either BvS OR Suicide Squad but agree that they are both terrible films. My favourite anecdote from them was "Batman and Superman never fought in the comics"
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Mar 14, 2017 20:07
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It's not even about the creative side of it. There is something wrong with the WB/DC administrative process at the studio. Marvel let Whedon do this with Age of Ultron, too. No one bothered to actually say, "Wait, hold on a minute, this script will be like four hours long if you actually shoot it, this needs another draft." Instead, they let Whedon shoot a four-hour movie, and then after editing it turned out to be an incomprehensible mess -- go figure. Edit: Which made Whedon crying about it after the fact so much more hilarious / pathetic. "Marvel compromised my vision!" Bud, your vision would have been an even more interminable slog than the loving finished product was, and the studio gave you all the rope you needed to hang yourself.
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Mar 14, 2017 20:16
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Invalid Validation posted:Hey I'm with him, at some point Elf turned into a beloved Christmas movie when I wasn't looking. Was it even a success before syndication? It was a huge success. It was 100% the reason he landed the Iron Man gig. Scyantific was saying that it was a financial success but he wasn't going to call it a good movie.
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