CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

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namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

why not both

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/boardroom-confidential-what-ceos-are-asking-of-jim-flaherty/article4483479/

quote:

Boardroom confidential: What CEOs are asking of Jim Flaherty

As Finance Minister Jim Flaherty goes behind closed doors for his sixth annual summer policy retreat, government documents obtained by The Globe and Mail reveal what gets discussed at these candid off-the-record confabs.

During last year�s sessions with business and policy leaders in Wakefield, Que., the minister was urged to adopt measures to reduce the pay of Canadian workers, limit union power by enacting U.S.-style right-to-work legislation, and allow two-tier health care.

There were also calls for a higher retirement age and to open Canada�s shipping, telecom and airline industries to more foreign competition.

The details are in a briefing note to Mr. Flaherty from his deputy minister that summarizes what was said.

For two days every summer, a select group of CEOs, other business leaders, and policy experts is invited to a retreat with the Finance Minister. The event is private. Participants are allowed to talk about the meeting afterward, but cannot reveal who said what.

Documents obtained by The Globe and Mail under Access to Information describe the advice Mr. Flaherty received. This year�s retreat, again in Wakefield, began on Wednesday and continues on Thursday.

Before this year�s sessions, Mr. Flaherty told reporters that the participants come from many backgrounds, but that it�s important to hear from Canadian CEOs because of their influence on the economy. �We do ensure that there are representatives from all walks of Canadian life there including from the academic community, economists,� he said.

A spokesperson for the minister later added that the government pursues some, but not all, of the ideas put forward at the retreats.

A wrap-up briefing note to the minister dated Aug. 16, 2011 � five days after last year�s retreat � provides a point-form summary of the discussions, broken down by topic. The memo does not say who made which comments.

Labour issues surface in several discussion categories, with the general view that Canadian workers are overpriced. �Need to address wage differentials in labor market among countries; we are losing jobs to other countries,� the memo reads. �Right to Work legislation should be pondered as it creates inequities in productivity; US example was provided.�

In the United States, about two dozen state governments have passed right-to-work legislation, which allows workers to opt out of paying union dues. Critics call the measures a form of union busting.

The memo indicates calls were made for junior public servants to be paid less. �Reduce public service wages (not in higher ranks, but those in the lower ranks such as administrative and clerical staff as they earn more than their private-sector counterparts) and reduce the overall size of the public service.�

Over the past year, the Conservative government has made several policy moves that unions said will drive down wages. Among them, Canadian companies will be allowed to bring in temporary foreign workers more quickly and to pay them 15 per cent less than the average wage for their jobs. Also, changes to Canada�s employment insurance rules will mean that Canadians who fall into a new category of �frequent� EI users will be expected to take any available work after six weeks on EI, even if it pays up to 30 per cent less than their previous job.

Federal cabinet ministers, including Immigration Minister Jason Kenney, have dismissed accusations that the government is acting to suppress wages.

The briefing note contains little detail on what was said about health-care policy, although under the heading of �efficiencies,� the note says: �Need two-tier health care.�

Andrew Jackson, chief economist for the Canadian Labour Congress, attended the 2009 retreat and said wage stats do not support claims that labour costs are a problem. He also said the participants tend to represent a one-sided view. �They�re overwhelmingly dominated by employer spokespeople, people from the right-wing think tanks,� said Mr. Jackson. �It is a point in the process where the minister is starting to frame key ideas for the next budget, so it�s an important opportunity to shape his thinking at a pivotal point in the process.�

Although the participants pay their own way, documents show that Finance Canada paid $43,237.76 in 2011 for meals, room rentals and other expenses, including transportation.

all the fuckin techbros thinking that trump's H1B cancellations are gonna turn vancouver into San Francisco 2.0 smh

# ? Mar 14, 2017 19:33

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# ? May 22, 2024 17:30

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

ps, gently caress the lifted truck snowmobiling loving rurals to abject poverty

# ? Mar 14, 2017 19:33

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

infernal machines posted:

What, hypothetically, is the argument for allowing any unskilled position in any industry to be filled by a TFW?

Not from a business perspective, but from the perspective of a government that even pretends to represent the interests of Canadians?

How is this even an issue to be debated and negotiated over?

I can hire my tim hortons workers for minimum wage, they'll rent a townhouse and stick 12 people in there. Your double double stays cheap, you keep your construction job and you have renters for your overleveraged investment property. Yes, having a minimum wage that equates to slavery is tough on a few of the poorest canadians but they should have studied harder or voted.

# ? Mar 14, 2017 19:35

Skippy Granola: Sep 3, 2011; It's not what it looks like.

It's the mistaken assumption that the labour cost savings will be reinvested in the business to spur innovation and create more high-skilled jobs. Or to pay a higher wage to skilled employees.

Instead, the cost savings are put into shareholder equity and management bonuses.

# ? Mar 14, 2017 19:36

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Postess with the Mostest posted:

I can hire my tim hortons workers for minimum wage, they'll rent a townhouse and stick 12 people in there. Your double double stays cheap, you keep your construction job and you have renters for your overleveraged investment property. Yes, having a minimum wage that equates to slavery is tough on a few of the poorest canadians but they should have studied harder or voted.

Didn't the guys running the Tims up in the oil patch actually build worker dorms for their TFWs and charge them rent? I seem to remember something about that.

# ? Mar 14, 2017 19:43

TheKingofSprings: Oct 9, 2012

infernal machines posted:

Didn't the guys running the Tims up in the oil patch actually build worker dorms for their TFWs and charge them rent? I seem to remember something about that.

I know a guy that did this

# ? Mar 14, 2017 19:48

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

I am going to laugh my loving rear end off if the NDP lose the election because they oppose Uber, which the Liberals then bring in (in the typical half-assed BC fashion), and which shortly goes bankrupt and pulls out due to the crushing lawsuit from Alphabet which is currently pending.

loving hell I hate this province so much.

# ? Mar 14, 2017 19:54

The Butcher: Apr 20, 2005; Well, at least we tried.; Nap Ghost

Helsing posted:

It is a policy aimed at suppressing wages. But among businesses it is also popular.

Hm. Really makes you think.

# ? Mar 14, 2017 20:16

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

so is it true trudeau's foreign minister is a ukrainian nazi collabo? lol

# ? Mar 14, 2017 22:49

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

icantfindaname posted:

so is it true trudeau's foreign minister is a ukrainian nazi collabo? lol

Her Grandpa who was a political and personal inspiration to her and got her into politics was a full on polish Nazi. The Russians are pushing this bit of trivia hard because she's involved in the policy to send Canadian military help to Ukraine, which Russia accuses is run by a western-backed fascist junta. Russia is bad though, so this is in fact an attack on our middle class.

# ? Mar 14, 2017 22:54

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Fort Mac is on fire again. Thoughts and prayers.

# ? Mar 14, 2017 22:56

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Isn't oberstaumfuhrer Freeland banned from Russia

# ? Mar 14, 2017 23:00

Skippy Granola: Sep 3, 2011; It's not what it looks like.

Boy howdy do you guys read Maclean's? I'm getting pretty tired of their equivocation and mildness.

Mostly I hate Feschuk's "humour" column. It's the CanCon equivalent of Dave Barry.

Just wanted to get that off my chest after reading this latest issue about Russia.

# ? Mar 14, 2017 23:08

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

icantfindaname posted:

so is it true trudeau's foreign minister is a ukrainian nazi collabo? lol

No she's a comedic genius.

quote:

[Freeland] told a story about the prime minister surprising an unnamed foreign leader. The leader asked Trudeau about picking so many women for his cabinet � and Trudeau left him speechless by replying that his cabinet would have fewer men if he'd gone on the basis of talent.

"The look on the face of this head of state, who I won't name, I could just see him thinking, 'Oh, my goodness,' Canadians really are bonkers," Freeland said, drawing laughs from the crowd.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-ministers-washington-1.3972164

# ? Mar 14, 2017 23:18

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

liberal 'humor' is almost as much a crime against humanity as NATO-backed Ukrainian nationalists, good to see it's the same in Canada as here south of the border

# ? Mar 14, 2017 23:19

Office Sheep: Jan 20, 2007

icantfindaname posted:

liberal 'humor' is almost as much a crime against humanity as NATO-backed Ukrainian nationalists, good to see it's the same in Canada as here south of the border

Our resident trolls are higher quality entertainment than this. You will have to up your game.

# ? Mar 14, 2017 23:54

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

icantfindaname posted:

liberal 'humor' is almost as much a crime against humanity as NATO-backed Ukrainian nationalists, good to see it's the same in Canada as here south of the border

HASH TAG DRUMPF! :smugbert:

*laughter, applause*

# ? Mar 14, 2017 23:59

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Postess with the Mostest posted:

No she's a comedic genius.

By saying Canadian men are garbage Trudeau is halfway to being CI

# ? Mar 15, 2017 00:29

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

All the TFWs I've been involved with were being paid six figures, so it's clearly not all about destroying the working class.

Fake edit: actually, I guess some were more like $80K and a good chunk of equity.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 00:46

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

vyelkin posted:

By saying Canadian men are garbage Trudeau is halfway to being CI

The old school guy is shocked because haha I hired men instead of more talented women. I don't understand this joke.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 00:50

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Marc Emery endorses Mad Max

https://twitter.com/MarcScottEmery/status/841754556556025856

# ? Mar 15, 2017 01:09

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

THC posted:

Marc Emery endorses Mad Max

Well that's gonna throw nick kouvalis' algorithm for a loop

# ? Mar 15, 2017 01:30

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

There's definitely some weird intersectionality going on there.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 01:31

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Postess with the Mostest posted:

The old school guy is shocked because haha I hired men instead of more talented women. I don't understand this joke.

I just found it funny that they decided to frame that supposed comment as the cabinet having fewer men rather than it having more women, the implication being that the men were less competent rather than that the women were more competent.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 02:49

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

vyelkin posted:

I just found it funny that they decided to frame that supposed comment as the cabinet having fewer men rather than it having more women, the implication being that the men were less competent rather than that the women were more competent.

Oooh I get it, the classic plucky woman, crowd was a "gathering of women in Congress" men suck lol I get it. They were in the US so maybe the crowd didn't realize that the character saying that there'd be more women cabinet ministers if they'd gone by talent was the same guy who picked the cabinet ministers.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 03:17

Lain Iwakura: Aug 5, 2004; The body exists only to verify one's own existence.; Taco Defender

protect the media :qq:

If you need it spelt out to you, look at the loving URL.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 04:58

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

So do they just not have a publishing editor, or do they think this is okay now?

# ? Mar 15, 2017 05:04

Wistful of Dollars: Aug 25, 2009

10 Things I Hate About ~~You~~ Jews.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 05:06

The Butcher: Apr 20, 2005; Well, at least we tried.; Nap Ghost

infernal machines posted:

So do they just not have a publishing editor, or do they think this is okay now?

Of course they do. That's why "Jews" got changed to "Israel".

# ? Mar 15, 2017 05:07

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

I thought the right loves Israel? What an odd relationship though. Rabid antisemitism really doesn't always fit on a left/right axis.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 05:20

HackensackBackpack: Aug 20, 2007; Who needs a house out in Hackensack? Is that all you get for your money?

OSI bean dip posted:

protect the media

If you need it spelt out to you, look at the loving URL.

The Beaverton: Ezra Levant confident riled up, far-right mob won�t turn against Jews this time

# ? Mar 15, 2017 05:29

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

Antisemitism is incomprehensible.

Like, I get that the Jews were real insufferable little shits to their neighbors 3000 years ago but they kind of ceased to exist as a nation thanks to that and the competition for "shittiest people on earth" trophy at the time was easily won by the Neo-Assyrian empire, and you don't see modern Assyrians take nearly as much flack as the Jews do despite Neo-Assyria going around grinding entire countries into bonemeal and inventing new torture methods almost daily.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 05:40

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

Subjunctive posted:

All the TFWs I've been involved with were being paid six figures, so it's clearly not all about destroying the working class.

Fake edit: actually, I guess some were more like $80K and a good chunk of equity.

I worked at a bank as a consultant. I got the job because they were fishing for their LMAs and I slipped in. I worked with a contingent of about 15-25 Infosys workers who were being paid something like 15-20CAD/hr.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 06:35

Stickarts: Dec 21, 2003; literally

I did landscaping with TFWs for a summer. Mexicans the lot of them. Wilco would stick 6 of them in a 4 bedroom house and charge them $500 a piece. Going rate for that size house would be maybe $2000. They were getting gouged but were just grateful to be here. Complain and they'd ship you back.

E. Average wage was probably $16/hour.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 06:53

The Butcher: Apr 20, 2005; Well, at least we tried.; Nap Ghost

Leofish posted:

The Beaverton: Ezra Levant confident riled up, far-right mob won�t turn against Jews this time

quote:

Levant says he�s excited by the response he�s received across the country, adding that the eventual economic downfall of an ethnonationalist Canada would not lead to the enraged white majority scapegoating him and his religious group, since that has never happened before and, if it has, it certainly hasn�t happened over a dozen times in the last century.

�Yup, looks like it�s smooth sailing for the Jews and their perpetual allies: dumb, angry white people,� said Levant, who is again, Jewish. �And even if things go south I�ll still be safe, because I don�t do anything that could easily be stereotyped as Jewish.�

�Now then, back to running my media empire where I create videos in which I repeatedly ask for money.�

these Beaverton guys are pretty deec for a cancon onion

# ? Mar 15, 2017 07:14

MikeSevigny: Aug 6, 2002; Habs 2006: Cristobal Persuasion

Rime posted:

I am going to laugh my loving rear end off if the NDP lose the election because they oppose Uber, which the Liberals then bring in (in the typical half-assed BC fashion), and which shortly goes bankrupt and pulls out due to the crushing lawsuit from Alphabet which is currently pending.

loving hell I hate this province so much.

The thing is though, they're not going to lose the election because of Uber. They'll lose it because they botch the housing affordability issue somehow, or because everyone forgets the NDP was even running in the election, or... I mean, the mind boggles at the possibilities here. But I don't think anyone outside of Greater Vancouver cares, the audience is limited even within Greater Vancouver because they wouldn't give up their cars anyway, and even the papers here seem pretty half-hearted about it today. They already wrote their "THE NDP BLEW IT ON UBER, WHAT FOOLS" columns a couple days ago, when the story was "The NDP are spineless and indecisive", not "The NDP is backing the wrong party". I am loath to defend the BC NDP, but they were going to get it no matter what position they took--defending the evil cartel, selling out to silicon valley tech scum, pathetic fence-sitting. Their best bet is to just move on, keep pushing on the issues they're still strong on (education, housing... for now) and try not to gently caress up too badly.

Yes, I'm aware that's asking too much of them.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 07:58

Vintersorg: Mar 3, 2004; President of
the Brendan Fraser
Fan Club

OSI bean dip posted:

protect the media

If you need it spelt out to you, look at the loving URL.

Holy poo poo it's real. The URL that is.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 17:05

Lightning Lord: Feb 21, 2013; $200 a day, plus expenses

I guess ol' Ezra is happy to strap himself to the altar if it means he can hate on Muslims and leftists until the wavy dagger is plunged into his heart.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 17:49

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad!

Man, it was surreal flipping from the Star Wars Rebels thread to this thread

# ? Mar 15, 2017 17:56

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# ? May 22, 2024 17:30

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

On the one hand, the Toronto Star is practically the only paper left in Canada that seems to have any interest reporting on these issues. On the other hand it's bizarre seeing them write that these employers haven't "learned their lesson" when it's fairly clearly they've learned it all too well.

quote:

Bosses who broke law haven�t learned their lesson, labour ministry blitz finds

Ministry of Labour's latest inspection blitz targeted 103 workplaces where two or more violations were discovered in the past three years. Only 28 employers were fully compliant with the law.

Once burned, twice shy. So goes the age-old adage. But according to the Ministry of Labour�s latest inspection blitz, it doesn�t always apply to bosses breaking workplace laws.

Almost three-quarters of employers with a �history of non-compliance� � the targets of the ministry�s latest round of inspections � were revealed to be still violating employment standards, according to a detailed breakdown of the investigations requested by the Star.

The so-called �zero tolerance� blitz targeted 103 workplaces where two or more violations were discovered in the past three years, in sectors where precarious work is a growing issue like gyms, maintenance, and security services. Only 28 employers were fully compliant with the law.

�It is the Ministry of Labour�s responsibility to put a stop to these practices,� said John No, a lawyer focusing on workers� rights at Parkdale Community Legal Services. �Unfortunately for a lot of workers, it�s not the first time they�ve been cheated.�

Some of the most common violations were around excess hours of work, public holiday pay, shoddy recordkeeping and overtime pay. The ministry said it recovered $125,267 in unpaid entitlements to workers and that all employers voluntarily complied with orders to pay. It issued 42 fines ranging from $250 to about $300.

�Employees deserve to be paid for the hours they work. We continue to be vigilant to ensure all working Ontarians receive their entitlements under the Employment Standards Act,� said a labour ministry spokesperson, Janet Deline, adding that tactics included educating employers, proactively inspecting workplaces, and fining or prosecuting bosses where necessary.

�The latest figures show that simple education of employers is not sufficient,� No said. �There has to be strong disincentives, strong enforcement measures put in place to ensure that workers are not being exploited or cheated out of their wages.�

The Ministry of Labour has taken steps over the past year to ramp up enforcement: Since 2015, the number of lawbreaking Ontario bosses facing prosecution has risen by more than 40 per cent, according to ministry statistics.

Proactive inspection blitzes do not need to be triggered by individual worker complaints. Instead, they focus broadly on high-risk sectors and can be initiated at the will of the ministry � although employers are given advance notice that the inspection will take place.

The companies targeted in the latest round included GoodLife Fitness, which in a previous blitz was in violation of five different workplace laws, including poor record keeping and failure to post required information in the workplace. This time, the contraventions included improper deductions from wages, excess hours of work, and overtime pay violations.

In a statement to the Star, a GoodLife spokesperson, Krista Maling, said the organization took �immediate steps to rectify the matters by, among other things, amending our onboarding procedures and educating/reminding our management team about the relevant provisions of the Employment Standards Act.�

�Specifically, the �unlawful deductions from wages� finding included a practice of informing employees verbally (versus in writing) that their contribution to their benefit program would be deducted from their wages,� she added.

According to the �zero-tolerance� inspection records, Burlington-based Solar Wave Energy, which installs solar pool heating systems, had the single highest number of infractions with eight. But owner Jesse Christink said the findings say more about Ontario�s confusing web of employment laws than deliberate wrongdoing.

Christink said several employees who were fired some years ago filed a complaint against him seeking overtime pay and public holiday pay. But under existing legislation, swimming pool installers belong to a group of dozens of professions that are exempt from paying certain entitlements. Christink said the ministry ruled his company qualified for the exemption, and the case was settled privately.

But when inspectors arrived for the latest inspection blitz, he said, they determined he was not in fact eligible for the exemption � and dinged him for such contraventions as excess hours of work, overtime pay and public holiday pay.

�It�s kind of a case of one hand of the government doesn�t know what the other hand is doing,� Christink told the Star.

Critics have long called on the government to remove the existing array of exemptions and special rules that exclude some jobs from minimum standards, which they say leads to widespread confusion, complicates enforcement, and costs workers up to $45 million in potential earnings each week.

Christink said he agrees the exemptions should be removed for simplicity�s sake � and says he�s decided to operate as if they don�t exist because the rules are �very, very difficult to interpret.�

No says the government could enact other practical measures for more effective enforcement.

�The Ministry of Labour has the ability to issue fines,� he said. �They have in the past few years increased the use of them but it should be consistent practices. There should be interest on the unpaid wages so there�s no incentive to put off paying the orders to pay.�

The government should crack down on companies who simply shutter and open up under a new name to avoid paying workers wages owed, No said. Serious repeat violators could also be required to post a bond � money held in trust by the ministry � to guard against future infractions, a measure already implemented in jurisdictions like California.

Otherwise, No argues, it is workers who pay the price.

�They can�t pay their rent, they can�t pay their groceries,� he said. �Emotionally, they feel low � they feel as though they�ve been cheated.�

I'm really shocked to hear employers are continuing to garnish wages and avoiding paper trails for their illegal activity when they face fines that can be as high as $300. No wonder these employees "feel as though" they've been cheated.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 18:10

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

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