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The Phlegmatist posted:I can understand this mindset, but it just seems like a semantic game to me. It seems like it would be more honest to say that the Church continues to use God-given reason to come to a fuller understanding of the Truth rather than "we always had a Dual Covenant Theology, it's just that people in the past were really bad Catholics, you know?" Possibly this is a conflict between The Church as in the ideal church which is the bride of Christ, and the actual human church which has numerous flaws. Although I sort of agree that "the church changes" and "the church moves closer to what it has actually always been" is a bit of a semantic game. The erupting teeth kid probably died of some infection related to teething? At least it gives more detail than my early modern people, who die of violence, "a fever", or without any explanation.
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Mar 14, 2017 12:55
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pidan posted:The erupting teeth kid probably died of some infection related to teething? At least it gives more detail than my early modern people, who die of violence, "a fever", or without any explanation.
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Mar 14, 2017 13:11
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pidan posted:The erupting teeth kid probably died of some infection related to teething? At least it gives more detail than my early modern people, who die of violence, "a fever", or without any explanation. Hegel mentioned this over in the last milhist thread, as I recall. There was an idea in the early modern period that teething is very dangerous. It's not,, in and of itself, but sometimes well-intentioned people would prick or cut the baby's gums, to "let the teeth out," which absolutely was. Also they would try to rub painkilling herbs on the gums, or just dose it up good with booze, none of which helped matters I imagine.
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Mar 14, 2017 13:32
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composite odontoma posted:Composite odontoma is a rare defect in humans in which a benign tumor forms in the mouth, generally as a result of the abnormal growth of a single tooth, causing additional teeth to form within the tumor. Most cases have been found in the upper jaw of patients. Unchecked growth of the tumor can make swallowing and eating difficult, and can also lead to grotesque facial swelling. now that's an eruption of teeth. It's ridiculously rare though; more common is having your adult teeth growing in strange places, such as your palate or the base of your tongue. Little Nellie of Holy God had the latter happen to her. It causes sepsis if not removed, and if you did have it surgically removed in the early modern period it...uh, it's likely that the kid would've died of infection as a result anyway.
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Mar 14, 2017 13:33
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Mr Enderby posted:Hegel mentioned this over in the last milhist thread, as I recall. There was an idea in the early modern period that teething is very dangerous. It's not,, in and of itself, but sometimes well-intentioned people would prick or cut the baby's gums, to "let the teeth out," which absolutely was. Also they would try to rub painkilling herbs on the gums, or just dose it up good with booze, none of which helped matters I imagine.
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Mar 14, 2017 13:48
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Yeah, there was this theory held by some people in the early modern that all diseases began with the teeth. Its most prominent proponent just happened to be the personal physician of Louis XIV, and, well,Schultz, Uwe: Der Herrscher von Versailles. Ludwig der XIV. und seine Zeit, Munich 2006 posted:Without any anesthetic he [=Louis' doctor Antoine d'Aquin in 1685] pulled out all the teeth of the lower jaw, which shattered the jaw, as well as all the teeth of the upper teeth, where he also tore out part of the gum as well. The upper jaw manages to heal up after some months, whereas the missing gum part couldn't be replaced. To protect the hole leading to the nose from infections, he cauterised it fourteen times with a glowing rod of iron. The consequences were catastrophic: whenever the King drank a glass of wine now, half of it gushed 'like a fountain' out of the nose, while in the hole in the gum parts of the food got stuck and started to rot. Poor guy must have stunk like hell from the mouth. Also because he didn't have any teeth and refused to get wooden replacements as well, he had to eat all food without chewing, which again led to horrible indigestion. Which is interesting, because both his predecessors and his successors generally paid attention to their oral and dental hygiene. Napoleon Bonaparte even had some toothpicks made of gold in his possession, lol.
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Mar 14, 2017 14:40
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That seems like an appropriate condition for a king to exist with.
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Mar 14, 2017 15:30
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CountFosco posted:That seems like an appropriate condition for a king to exist with. Uh, why? 
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Mar 14, 2017 16:27
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System Metternich posted:Yeah, there was this theory held by some people in the early modern that all diseases began with the teeth. That's not really an irrational assessment if you're a doctor living in a world without antibiotics. Guy comes in with an abscess, you can't really do too much about it, dies of sepsis a little while later. It's the teeth! Remove 'em all!
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Mar 14, 2017 16:50
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The Phlegmatist posted:That's not really an irrational assessment if you're a doctor living in a world without antibiotics. Guy comes in with an abscess, you can't really do too much about it, dies of sepsis a little while later. It's the teeth! Remove 'em all! There's a bunch of stuff you can do without antibiotics, most importantly stab the abscess right open and clean out anything you find in there, then sterilize with whatever method you know about. "Remove the tooth" is also a pretty solid response to a variety of tooth problems even in our modern world. Weird medical treatments in the past often happened when people took a treatment that worked for one disease and decided to apply it to all the diseases. For example, I've read that bloodletting became really big at a time when some illness was common where opening the affected parts and letting the fluids run out was actually a great help. So people just decided that this was the best modern medicine had to offer, and applied it for all health problems and also as a preventative measure. People in the past weren't that much stupider than people today, they just had less to work with
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Mar 14, 2017 17:08
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System Metternich posted:Yeah, there was this theory held by some people in the early modern that all diseases began with the teeth. Its most prominent proponent just happened to be the personal physician of Louis XIV, and, well, Gold makes sense, given that it doesn't rust or tarnish and is fairly malleable and warm. I imagine rose gold with a bit of copper in it might have decent antibacterial properties, as well!
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Mar 14, 2017 17:42
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pidan posted:Weird medical treatments in the past often happened when people took a treatment that worked for one disease and decided to apply it to all the diseases. For example, I've read that bloodletting became really big at a time when some illness was common where opening the affected parts and letting the fluids run out was actually a great help. So people just decided that this was the best modern medicine had to offer, and applied it for all health problems and also as a preventative measure. Do you remember what the illness was? I can think of some that bloodletting is a treatment for but they're pretty rare (hemochromatosis being the most common.)
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Mar 14, 2017 18:06
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The Phlegmatist posted:Do you remember what the illness was? I can think of some that bloodletting is a treatment for but they're pretty rare (hemochromatosis being the most common.) Wikipedia suggests bloodletting can be helpful in congestive heart failure, presumably for the same reason diuretics are used to treat it (less fluid for the heart to try to move); I can't imagine a circumstance where a modern doctor would prefer it over diuretics, though!
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Mar 14, 2017 18:15
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The Phlegmatist posted:Do you remember what the illness was? I can think of some that bloodletting is a treatment for but they're pretty rare (hemochromatosis being the most common.) I don't remember exactly, but I think it was some kind of infection, and the treatment was draining some sort of swelling caused by that, rather than actual bloodletting
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Mar 14, 2017 18:41
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System Metternich posted:Uh, why? Don't mind me, just an anti-monarchical streak I'm sure I inherited from my puritan ancestors.
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Mar 14, 2017 20:01
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They gave Pope Francis four years to ‘make the Church over again.’ Here’s how he’s tried. this is my favorite part quote:His writings have also been used to defend the sacrilegious practice of giving Holy Communion to those living in objective grave sin (here, here, here, and here). Bishops and cardinals have defended this sacrilegious practice based on the Pope’s own arguments in Amoris Laetitia that emphasize “pastoral care” and “mercy” to the detriment of doctrine and truth. Pastoral care and mercy in scare quotes.
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Mar 14, 2017 20:25
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LifeSiteNews is a grave scandal to the faithful
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Mar 14, 2017 20:36
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Bel_Canto posted:a grave scandal to the faithful
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Mar 14, 2017 22:17
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HEY GAIL posted:i like catholic shade, i am not sure if the orthodox have an equivalent
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Mar 14, 2017 22:55
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my favorite catholic shade is someone starting a sentence with "in all charity" because it's the equivalent of a southern church lady saying "bless your heart," i.e. the deepest and most disgusted sort of moral condemnation
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Mar 14, 2017 23:07
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Keromaru5 posted:I would think it involves some variation of "the pan-heresy of ecumenism." That and the ultimate insult to God, practically spitting in his face, of changing the calendar.
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Mar 15, 2017 00:30
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CountFosco posted:That and the ultimate insult to God, practically spitting in his face, of changing the calendar. if it was good enough for julius caesar it is good enough for me
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Mar 15, 2017 01:24
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oh yeah why not write in super complex Latin prose then
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Mar 15, 2017 01:27
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HEY GAIL posted:i like catholic shade, i am not sure if the orthodox have an equivalent when I've seen Orthodox get mad at each other on the internet they start suggesting that the other person go to confession
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Mar 15, 2017 01:32
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Senju Kannon posted:oh yeah why not write in super complex Latin prose then Nemo dat quod non habet.
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Mar 15, 2017 01:43
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how dare you speak latin to me
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Mar 15, 2017 01:43
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Senju Kannon posted:how dare you speak latin to me In Latin Class my nickname was Sextus Molestus after the annoying kid from our text book (Ecce Romani!). Even after 6 semesters of it in hs I've barely retained much other than "Semper ubi sub ubi"  .
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Mar 15, 2017 01:54
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There are schools that don't use Wheelock? Shameful.
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Mar 15, 2017 02:05
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cis autodrag posted:In Latin Class my nickname was Sextus Molestus after the annoying kid from our text book (Ecce Romani!). Even after 6 semesters of it in hs I've barely retained much other than "Semper ubi sub ubi" hah in my Latin class in middle school a friend of mine was nicknamed that as well, and we all thought semper ubi sub ubi was the height of humor
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Mar 15, 2017 02:08
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^^^Lol  The Phlegmatist posted:There are schools that don't use Wheelock? Shameful. I grew up in a very poor place. A lot of our Latin books were duct taped together.
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Mar 15, 2017 02:09
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Aw  I hope you read St. Augustine talking about werewolves at least. A lot of classical language teachers leave out the fun stuff.
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Mar 15, 2017 02:21
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Where, where, where is that.
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Mar 15, 2017 03:09
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Senju Kannon posted:oh yeah why not write in super complex Latin prose then Caesar's prose is actually comparatively simple and clear 
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Mar 15, 2017 03:26
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Ceciltron posted:Caesar's prose is actually comparatively simple and clear if you told me this when I was struggling to translate him in college I would have wished death on you, as of now I'll just say i'm pretty sure we only know about certain grammar because Caesar wrote it i'd rather read catullus or aquinas
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Mar 15, 2017 03:41
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CountFosco posted:Where, where, where is that. City of God, Book XVIII, Chapter 17. quote:In support of this story, Varro relates others no less incredible about that most famous sorceress Circe, who changed the companions of Ulysses into beasts, and about the Arcadians, who, by lot, swam across a certain pool, and were turned into wolves there, and lived in the deserts of that region with wild beasts like themselves. But if they never fed on human flesh for nine years, they were restored to the human form on swimming back again through the same pool. Finally, he expressly names one Demænetus, who, on tasting a boy offered up in sacrifice by the Arcadians to their god Lycæus according to their custom, was changed into a wolf, and, being restored to his proper form in the tenth year, trained himself as a pugilist, and was victorious at the Olympic games. And the same historian thinks that the epithet Lycæus was applied in Arcadia to Pan and Jupiter for no other reason than this metamorphosis of men into wolves, because it was thought it could not be wrought except by a divine power. For a wolf is called in Greek λυκὸς, from which the name Lycæus appears to be formed. He says also that the Roman Luperci were as it were sprung of the seed of these mysteries. Then the next chapter is his theological answer to "why do people say men transform into beasts?" quote:I cannot therefore believe that even the body, much less the mind, can really be changed into bestial forms and lineaments by any reason, art, or power of the demons; but the phantasm of a man which even in thought or dreams goes through innumerable changes may, when the man's senses are laid asleep or overpowered, be presented to the senses of others in a corporeal form, in some indescribable way unknown to me, so that men's bodies themselves may lie somewhere, alive, indeed, yet with their senses locked up much more heavily and firmly than by sleep, while that phantasm, as it were embodied in the shape of some animal, may appear to the senses of others, and may even seem to the man himself to be changed, just as he may seem to himself in sleep to be so changed, and to bear burdens; and these burdens, if they are real substances, are borne by the demons, that men may be deceived by beholding at the same time the real substance of the burdens and the simulated bodies of the beasts of burden. For a certain man called Præstantius used to tell that it had happened to his father in his own house, that he took that poison in a piece of cheese, and lay in his bed as if sleeping, yet could by no means be aroused. But he said that after a few days he as it were woke up and related the things he had suffered as if they had been dreams, namely, that he had been made a sumpter horse, and, along with other beasts of burden, had carried provisions for the soldiers of what is called the Rhœtian Legion, because it was sent to Rhœtia. And all this was found to have taken place just as he told, yet it had seemed to him to be his own dream. So if you ever wondered if the Catholic Church has an answer for lycanthropy, there you go.
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Mar 15, 2017 04:21
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Ceciltron posted:Caesar's prose is actually comparatively simple and clear he and cicero actually had a longstanding argument about "correct" latin: caesar thought that it should be straightforward and regular, and cicero, as anyone who's ever read him knows, absolutely loved ornamentation and rhetorical fireworks. cicero was, of course, correct, as everyone in the renaissance knew
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Mar 15, 2017 05:47
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reading at daily mass reminded me of some of the discussion going on in the threadquote:THEN Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not. For they bind heavy and insupportable burdens, and lay them on men's shoulders; but with a finger of their own they will not move them. plus ca change Bel_Canto posted:LifeSiteNews is a grave scandal to the faithful yuuuuuup
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Mar 15, 2017 05:51
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Bel_Canto posted:he and cicero actually had a longstanding argument about "correct" latin: caesar thought that it should be straightforward and regular, and cicero, as anyone who's ever read him knows, absolutely loved ornamentation and rhetorical fireworks. cicero was, of course, correct, as everyone in the renaissance knew god i'm glad i'm studying japanese, grammatically at least it's so much easier
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Mar 15, 2017 05:52
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Senju Kannon posted:god i'm glad i'm studying japanese, grammatically at least it's so much easier going from a language with noun declension to one that doesn't even have plurals must be nice.
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Mar 15, 2017 05:56
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Senju Kannon posted:god i'm glad i'm studying japanese, grammatically at least it's so much easier I always felt like Japanese grammar is harder just because it's much less intuitive. Latin at least follows the same kind of logic as other Euro languages when it comes to forming a sentence. Then again we also have grammatical gender and relatively complex verb forms in my native language, coming from English that must be confusing. I started learning a bit of Turkish recently just because there's an app for that, and that's a language with a really fun grammar as well, would recommend. Most complex bit of English grammar by the way is that to this day I'm not sure whether or not you guys have a subjunctive.
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Mar 15, 2017 06:07
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