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Kashuno posted:BotW is the recombining of the split timelines, happening so far in the future that all timelines have reach a convergence point. This makes sense, as this game ends in such a way that seems to be the end of the cycle and it explains botw having different aspects from each timeline. The timelines all progressed differently, but ultimately the pieces of all of them came closer and closer together until they reformed into a single timeline. I wonder about this. What was so special about this Ganoning and what did Zelda do differently that means this is the last one, and the permanent, lasting destruction of Ganoning forever? Why is this one the end, while the others aren't?
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Mar 15, 2017 15:14
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Pollyanna posted:I wonder about this. What was so special about this Ganoning and what did Zelda do differently that means this is the last one, and the permanent, lasting destruction of Ganoning forever? Why is this one the end, while the others aren't? It's very explicitly not. Zelda even SAYS Ganon will likely come back.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:15
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Zore posted:I mean they were the first to talk about timelines in that they wrote Zelda 2 as a sequel to Zelda 1. Sequels don't necessitate a timeline either though. A sequel is a sequel. It's two games that are connected. Just because two games (or however many are directly connected in a sequel/prequel relationship) happen sequentially it doesn't mean that you have to put the entire franchise in ONE TRUE TIMELINE. 
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Mar 15, 2017 15:17
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BotW happens in Termina:
Termina is the mirror of the real Hyrule, explaining why this game is so different from all the other 3D Zeldas. Evidence pointing to BotW being in every timeline just means that Termina is a universal constant and there's only one regardless of the amount of Hyrules. Music Theory fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 15:18
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Music Theory posted:BotW happens in Termina: I want a breath of the wild in termina please.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:20
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TFRazorsaw posted:It's very explicitly not. No she says he won't. He blew all his energy for this one final battle instead of loving off to hide for a millenia or two.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:20
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Time is an illusion. The DLC dungeon and final boss has you destroy the time goddess long rumored to exist. 
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Mar 15, 2017 15:21
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Music Theory posted:
Kashuno posted:I want a breath of the wild in termina please.  e: Imagine if we had a BotW size world with a 3 day limit. Barely reach the edge of the map before the moon falls and you have to reset 
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Mar 15, 2017 15:22
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Rito in BotW didn't evolve from Zora, they evolved from Deku. This is why there are no Deku and why Rito and Zora exist together. Evidence:
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Mar 15, 2017 15:23
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They better make LOTS of DLC for this game. pls pls pls
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Mar 15, 2017 15:23
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BotW clearly takes place in the Mario RPG universe. How else could Link end up sleeping at the inn in Rose Town?
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Mar 15, 2017 15:24
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Neddy Seagoon posted:No she says he won't. He blew all his energy for this one final battle instead of loving off to hide for a millenia or two. In the true ending, Zelda says "although Ganon is gone for now-", which indicates he's not gone for good, and that his attempt to burn himself out failed.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:27
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The greatest failing of this game so far is that I cannot pet the dogs.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:28
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Neddy Seagoon posted:No she says he won't. He blew all his energy for this one final battle instead of loving off to hide for a millenia or two. It's a bit unclear. She says Ganon gave up on reincarnation, but also says when you beat him that he's gone "for now." My take is that what she means by his giving up on reincarnation is that he gave up on having an actual, humanoid incarnation for this cycle and instead exists as unbound malice, the thing that was inside Ganondorf all along. It's not that he threw away his ability to come back later. That door's still open. That said, I actually do hope that this is the last we see of Ganon, that he's dead now and will never come back, and that we don't even have any more prequel games with Ganon. This feels so much like the final battle with him that I think it would just be disappointing to see him as the villain in another Zelda game.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:29
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TFRazorsaw posted:In the true ending, Zelda says "although Ganon is gone for now-", which indicates he's not gone for good, and that his attempt to burn himself out failed. regardless of if it is the final game of the timeline period, I think the other points stand insofar as it takes place far enough in the future that all timelines have converged
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Mar 15, 2017 15:29
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I wasn't really talking about the timeline there. Honestly, the "timelines have merged" is pretty nonsensical. There's nothing to indicate it whatsoever, beyond superficial references to multiple titles, when... games explicitly set in different timelines already reference other ones superficially as well. "It can follow any of the timelines" is better as a general idea, or at least would be, if Spirit Tracks' New Hyrule didn't make that patently impossible.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:32
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What I want to know is: what killed the ancient civilization? According to legend, it wasn't Ganon. It was global warming. That's why there's a reference to the great sea in this game.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:31
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Cicadas! posted:The greatest failing of this game so far is that I cannot pet the dogs. As someone who isn't bothered by the rain or durability and hasn't had any trouble with blood moons, this is probably and unironically my #1 biggest problem with the game 
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Mar 15, 2017 15:33
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What "killed" the ancient civilization was the king of Hyrule of 10,000 years ago turning against them, forcing the Sheikah to go back into hiding and for the Yigah clan to side with Ganon. If you're wondering why all their guardians and divine beasts were buried, that's just the passage of time.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:33
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Cicadas! posted:The greatest failing of this game so far is that I cannot pet the dogs. My SO was immensely disappointed that she couldn't feed an apple to her horse
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Mar 15, 2017 15:36
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Hyrule needs to stop coronating kings. They keep making really dumb decisions.
Gibbering fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 15:37
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Linx posted:My SO was immensely disappointed that she couldn't feed an apple to her horse You actually can do that, though. Carrots, too. Just hold one like you're about to cook with it in front of your horse and it'll gobble it right up. Endura carrots increase maximum spurs by 3! 
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Mar 15, 2017 15:37
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Linx posted:My SO was immensely disappointed that she couldn't feed an apple to her horse You can! Hold an apple, walk in front of the horse and stand still.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:37
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TFRazorsaw posted:I wasn't really talking about the timeline there. nonsensical, we are debating a videogame series time line. Not fitting any timeline doesn't make any logical sense
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Mar 15, 2017 15:38
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Linx posted:My SO was immensely disappointed that she couldn't feed an apple to her horse What? You can totally do this. Also I'm getting really weirded out by the fact that Hyrule is always medieval, and not in a particularly fantastic way. Some variety would be nice.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:38
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Cicadas! posted:You actually can do that, though. Carrots, too. Just hold one like you're about to cook with it in front of your horse and it'll gobble it right up. You're a genuine hero friend
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Mar 15, 2017 15:38
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TFRazorsaw posted:Honestly, the "timelines have merged" is pretty nonsensical. There's nothing to indicate it whatsoever, beyond superficial references to multiple titles, when... games explicitly set in different timelines already reference other ones superficially as well. Except that it's been over 10,000 years. We know it's been 10,000 years since the high-tech Sheikah Guardian stuff but we have no idea how long that was since the most recent other Zelda game. Even with Spirit Tracks and New Hyrule, maybe they built up a new, advanced civilization with the Guardians and Sheikah magitech, then the Great Sea rescinded and people resettled old Hyrule, and then the 10,000 years ago Guardian War happened. When we have explicitly that long of a timeline, the events of previous games don't really matter to Breath of the Wild at all and it's not hard, especially with magic and gods and the Triforce at work, to imagine how any of the timelines could've reached this point. Like, if this is in the Adult timeline, maybe the Ocean Zora turned into the Rito but the River Zora just hosed off to a new land far away, and over 10,000+ years they transformed into the Zora we see in Breath of the Wild (who do hang out in rivers) and now the Zora and Rito coexist. Timelines merging is "nonsensical," yes, but it's not like Zelda would be the first series to do it. It's an explicit concept in the Elder Scrolls series, though that one is generally known for loving around with the fourth wall a lot more than Zelda ever has. Still, who's to say Hylia and/or the Triforce couldn't "repair" time and lead to a world where all of the previous events are true and conflicting so all of the legends and myths get even more vague, as they are in Breath of the Wild? And if we're going to throw out things like the Rito, Koroks, explicit references to Twilight, and such as just superficial references, it's honestly hard to say what we should consider a substantial reference. Maybe the geography being similar to the Downfall timeline is a total coincidence and it's not even the same Death Mountain. Maybe the Master Sword having a dedicated pedestal in the Lost Woods is just a reference, too. It's possible to take any of those references as worth more or less depending on which timeline you think it fits in. My point isn't that you're wrong, just that I think any argument for it being in one specific timeline is necessarily going to have to pick and choose which pieces of evidence are real and which are just allusions, y'know?
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Mar 15, 2017 15:39
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Kashuno posted:nonsensical, we are debating a videogame series time line. Not fitting any timeline doesn't make any logical sense I never said that. I personally think it follows the Downfall timeline. The idea they all "converged" isn't supported by anything in the game. You misunderstand me. I'm calling the "the timelines have merged" thing bogus because there's nothing to indicate it's true. The superficial references like all the named landmarks are just like the portraits of the goddesses in Wind Waker resembling the Oracles of that series; it's a reference to something related, not that these two things follow each other. And I think you fundamentally misunderstood the point of Wind Waker. Daphnes' wish was that the Triforce, Hyrule, and Ganondorf would be buried beneath the waves forever. That their legacy was over, and it was time for Link and Zelda to build something new. New Hyrule is a clean break. The whole point of the Great Sea is that it'll never recede. New Hyrule COULD just have a Death Mountain and Gerudo Desert of it's own, I guess, but Ganon's presence is impossible because Daphnes and the Master Sword trapped him down there. WW Ganondorf isn't alive *or* dead, he's trapped perpetually in some kind of stasis. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 15:39
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When Nintendo made a game that said the hero disappeared for some reason when they also had a game where the hero went back in time to live his life a different way, there were two different timelines. When OoT ended and they went to Majora's Mask, there might as well have just been one timeline. Nintendo created the second timeline in Wind Waker when they said the hero disappeared forever. No fan could have known about that before Nintendo. Then Nintendo created the third timeline with Hyrule Historia with the 2D games. Fans might have been trying for put the games in a sequence for years but Nintendo created the split timelines themselves. Any fan making an argument for split timelines before Wind Waker would have just been guessing.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:40
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Moving onto a different topic, is this the first game to make it clear there is a land beyond Hyrule? I mean, you can actually, physically, see it. It's not just sheer cliffs or some drop off, you can see green grasslands over there. I guess it could just be for a physical barrier thing, but they gave the other two sides ocean so it is a conscientious decision to put a continent over there.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:46
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The moon seems to set over there, so I guess that's Termina.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:48
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This is the first you can physically see, I'm pretty sure. Land beyond Hyrule is implicitly around in Wind Waker (well, retroactively, thanks to Spirit Tracks) but you never see it.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:48
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Kashuno posted:Moving onto a different topic, is this the first game to make it clear there is a land beyond Hyrule? I mean, you can actually, physically, see it. It's not just sheer cliffs or some drop off, you can see green grasslands over there. I guess it could just be for a physical barrier thing, but they gave the other two sides ocean so it is a conscientious decision to put a continent over there. No. The Oracle games are set in Holodrum, and he's the same Link as ALttP and Link's Awakening, who was on a journey at sea in the latter. Also, Triforce Heroes is set in another kingdom, and it features the same Link as ALBW. And of course, New Hyrule in Spirit Tracks is set on a land mass beyond the great sea, which covers what used to be Hyrule. quote:The moon seems to set over there, so I guess that's Termina. Termina is like Lorule, another dimension.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:48
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I forget about the oracle games. it has been so long since I've played those. I should replay those at some point.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:50
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TFRazorsaw posted:I wasn't really talking about the timeline there. I'd say new Hyrule doesn't make that impossible. It was huge like botw is, was advancing in technology which the shiekah could further refine. Zoras could have returned. All it would take is some salvager in the great sea pulling up an an ancient statue with a sword that seals the darkness stuck in it for Ganon to come back.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:51
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parallelodad posted:I'd say new Hyrule doesn't make that impossible. It was huge like botw is, was advancing in technology which the shiekah could further refine. Zoras could have returned. All it would take is some salvager in the great sea pulling up an an ancient statue with a sword that seals the darkness stuck in it for Ganon to come back. Old Hyrule was sealed by the power of the goddesses and the Triforce itself, which locked it up tighter than it had been previously. Not to mention, it feels like the spirit of the game to say it all got reversed. Wind Waker was about moving on, so a story that undoes all that just... doesn't fit, to be honest. Nintendo has been pretty consistent with treating Wind Waker's sequels as being ones where things change fairly significantly.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:55
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BotW Link is the reincarnation of Tingle from Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:59
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TFRazorsaw posted:Old Hyrule was sealed by the power of the goddesses and the Triforce itself, which locked it up tighter than it had been previously. Not to mention, it feels like the spirit of the game to say it all got reversed. Wind Waker was about moving on, so a story that undoes all that just... doesn't fit, to be honest. Nintendo has been pretty consistent with treating Wind Waker's sequels as being ones where things change fairly significantly. Not quite, the Seal was Hyrule being frozen in time beneath the waves at the 11th hour of being invaded. You break part of that seal by just pulling out the Master Sword and returning Time to normal. King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule shatters it completely with his Wish on the Triforce, which is what causes Hyrule to be flooded.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:59
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Oh, that's right. still, the way it's set up makes any of it getting reversed far more unlikely than it would previously.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:00
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even though I too could do without ganon, I would like to see some kind of resolution to the gerudo ganondorf granted, he only had any depth in wind Waker, but still
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Mar 15, 2017 16:07
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