Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

I Love You!: Dec 6, 2002

World Famous W posted:

I always found Pakellas's supercharge best to hold on to till you got in a poo poo fight that managed to drain your Heal Wounds all the way down. Supercharge that fucker and get a fully energized 12 charge Heal Wounds wand. Was the only thing that got me my sole Mummy win.

You could also have gotten a mummy win by supercharging literally the first rod you found (were gifted) and using it on every monster you met for the remainder of the game

# ? Mar 15, 2017 16:25

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# ? May 19, 2024 07:35

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

That win I found a Lightening Rod on Dungeon 2 and it helped carry me. Really was no point to supercharging most rods though. Sure you got three blasts with the 6 cost ones, but without the need to use recharging on wands at all it was easy enough to get the 5 I ended with all up to a good maximum use. The supercharge was better served as a backup to make sure my Healing didn't end and saved my rear end in Pan when a random lord was kicking it in.

Not that any of this matters because even if Pake was brought back all the fun toys are gone or changed.

EDIT: drat, looking back at that it was also the one where I found Kryia's Mail Coat in Elf. That game couldn't have played out better for a MuAr^Pake.

World Famous W fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Mar 15, 2017

# ? Mar 15, 2017 16:46

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

I Love You! posted:

You could also have gotten a mummy win by supercharging literally the first rod you found (were gifted) and using it on every monster you met for the remainder of the game

You could also do that with Xom/Gozag and just get multiple copies of the same rod. Pakellas was broken because it was unlimited haste/healing with no skill investment required. I had so much piety, I often recharged with 1-2 MP on those wands just to refill them one guaranteed charge at a time.

World Famous W posted:

Not that any of this matters because even if Pake was brought back all the fun toys are gone or changed.

I could still see myself taking Pak if reintroduced for rechargable acid, and you can still get clouds/scattershot even if you have to pump some charges into them now.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 16:58

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

Mu. posted:

Another interesting thing about froggers is that they are the only species in the game that do not move at normal speed and yet have the boot slot available. All of the others (naga, flying kenku, swimming merfolk, felid, spriggan, centaur) have no shoes. This is extremely good for froggers because if you find boots of speed you have cancelled out one of your racial drawbacks entirely.

Nah, boots of speed only make you 0.1 faster and froggos move at 1.2 so even with boots of running you still don't break even.

Mu. posted:

I found a wand of scattershot and it was bad. I found a wand of clouds and didn't zap it. I found a scarf and didn't wear it. I never used any of Dithmenos' active abilities and have no idea what they do. In conclusion .20 is extremely good. Thank you for reading.

u should try scattershot/clouds with some evo training, scattershot gibs stuff super well as long as they don't have huge AC and damage clouds on demand is just real good

# ? Mar 15, 2017 17:30

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Did frogs get slowed more? Because my first and only Barachi(an) game found early boots of running, and I swear I was moving at 1.0 after that.

Or maybe I was imagining things, and 1.1 was just good enough for most purposes.

Haifisch fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Mar 15, 2017

# ? Mar 15, 2017 17:41

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

Haifisch posted:

Did frogs get slowed more? Because my first and only Barachi(an) game found early boots of running, and I swear I was moving at 1.0 after that.

Or maybe I was imagining things, and 1.1 was just good enough for most purposes.

I first reported it as 1.1 in-thread because they have (and have always had) Slow Move 1, but Slow Move 1 is indeed 1.2 unless it's been changed since then, and I was wrong.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 17:46

Mu.: Sep 15, 2003; The thing about Forevereal Modding Mu is that he loves editing files and wants others to download his permanent mods. Fully editing, rich text, altering files and loving it. Download his mods and enjoy it.

If you press @ while wearing boots of running it says your move speed is average, so I was going by that. I do not know anything about movement speeds as numbers, thankfully.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 18:04

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

What you say makes sense, but I would have sworn the same....

Tested in wizmode, frogman goes from 1.2 to 1.0 move speed with boots of running in 0.20-a0-876-g2c7b0bf

Tested again: Nagas with lightning scales go from 1.4 to 1.2 Humans go from 1.0 to 0.9

LordSloth fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Mar 15, 2017

# ? Mar 15, 2017 18:06

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

that's a really weird special case!

# ? Mar 15, 2017 19:03

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

IronicDongz posted:

that's a really weird special case!

It's not a special case per se, it's just how the speed ego interacts with the Slow/Fast mutations.

code:

// Mutations: -2, -3, -4, unless innate and shapechanged.
if (int fast = player_mutation_level(MUT_FAST))
    mv -= fast + 1;

if (int slow = player_mutation_level(MUT_SLOW))
{
    mv *= 10 + slow * 2;
    mv /= 10;
}

# ? Mar 15, 2017 19:09

weirdly chilly pussy: Oct 6, 2007

Is there any penalty for ranged combat when the target is adjacent to you? If you're say, a centaur hunter, are you better off just never unwielding your bow instead of training a melee skill as well?

I'm trying to play a HaHu using long blades and slings but the tedium of wielding and unwielding is killing it for me. Why not just implement ranged weapons the same way as throwing?

# ? Mar 15, 2017 21:47

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

there is no penalty for attacking adjacent with ranged weapons

agree about swapping, Qud and some other RLs have a separate slot for ranged weapon which works a lot better imo

# ? Mar 15, 2017 21:49

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

It's still kinda tedious (anything with ranged weapons is), but are you at least using ' to switch weapons?

# ? Mar 15, 2017 22:18

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

IronicDongz posted:

agree about swapping, Qud and some other RLs have a separate slot for ranged weapon which works a lot better imo

This is in the works, actually! It's been long-stalled in part because Crawl menu code is a mess.

# ? Mar 15, 2017 22:26

weirdly chilly pussy: Oct 6, 2007

Fitzy Fitz posted:

It's still kinda tedious (anything with ranged weapons is), but are you at least using ' to switch weapons?

I am now

# ? Mar 15, 2017 22:29

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

Wands of scattershot are really good if you find them early. Like 5 evo is enough to oneshot an adjacent hydra

# ? Mar 16, 2017 00:43

vOv: Feb 8, 2014

quote:

E - the ring of Haower (left hand) {rF+ rC+ MR+}
(You bought it in a shop on level 5 of the Dungeon)

so how stupid is my death going to be

e: the answer was getting shafted 3 floors into sight of a centaur and a hornet

# ? Mar 16, 2017 02:54

resistentialism: Aug 13, 2007

Haower you going to get yourself killed, you mean.

# ? Mar 16, 2017 04:52

goatsestretchgoals: Jun 4, 2011

World Famous W posted:

I always found Pakellas's supercharge best to hold on to till you got in a poo poo fight that managed to drain your Heal Wounds all the way down. Supercharge that fucker and get a fully energized 12 charge Heal Wounds wand. Was the only thing that got me my sole Mummy win.

I did a DD^Pakellas win and it was a different way of playing the game. You're trying to kill enough dudes to get enough MP to have Pakellas recharge your Heal Wounds wand. You weren't really in danger of dying as long as you had HW charges, but you could easily gently caress up over time and have too little HP left to kill enough dudes to get enough MP to get more HW charges.

# ? Mar 16, 2017 07:37

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

I have a number of complaints, in ascending order of pettiness:

Something went screwy with shock bouncing on corners, now the range has decreased in one specific instance. Now it does this

pre:

xxx
@.x
x2x
x1x

instead of hitting that second square twice, unless you are a frog and have +1 range. It doesn't have reduced range against flat walls and you can get 2 angled double zaps in certain other unusual configurations, it's just this one specific (and common (and useful)) corner zap.

Whenever I pick a monk and worship a god who gives me an ability at 1* the hot keys for that ability and renounce are screwed up and go to f & g respectively.

Sometimes when I die it skips right past the 'you die' message and boots me straight to the inventory screen. This pretty reliably happens if I die while chugging potions but has happened at other times for whatever reason. It even happens if I put the death message on force more. I have to go look at the morgue file if I want to know what actually killed me.

# ? Mar 16, 2017 11:07

Luceid: Jan 20, 2005; Buy some freaking medicine.

Mu. posted:

Frog.

this is a level of roguelike zen you only get from having the most powerful Gamer spirit... so this is spiral power, huh? not bad.

# ? Mar 16, 2017 11:43

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

Oh man, auto using a bow or crossbow or something by just htiting F rather than manually swapping to it would actually make me want to use all those artifact ranged weapons I've come across.

# ? Mar 16, 2017 14:13

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

The +6 Chain Mail of Fashionability {*Corrode, rC+++, rN+, Regen+}

Oh, I'm feeling fashionable all right.

# ? Mar 16, 2017 16:24

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Chilling all night with this DJ, immune to everyone's death glares as I jingle on this dancefloor..

In other news I have lost much of my touch in playing this game. It does not help that my last unwon species are Octopode and Mummy (Barachi and Tengu too but they aren't as heavily penalized) so I feel obligated to play them when I have the chance. :suicide:

# ? Mar 16, 2017 16:32

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

In latest Malmutate news... Malmutate still sucks!

Popped in Slime for a rune. Rolling along nicely playing pretty well if I do say so, but thanks to Shining Eyes I had to burn 6 Scrolls of Fog just to avoid them mutating the poo poo out of in open areas, and then still ate about half a dozen malmutates despite my best efforts. Unsure how you're supposed to do that rune without walking out carrying a few lovely mutates (and a few neutral ones!) unless you can one-shot an unaware Shining Eye.

# ? Mar 16, 2017 17:02

rj54x: Sep 16, 2007

Just found the autumn katana on D:6 with a GrFi that has 10 points in M&F. Worth switching to long blades for or nah?

# ? Mar 16, 2017 17:53

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Eh, why not? The Autumn Katana is essentially better eudemon blade for it's base type and then it's topped by the big plus, vorpal and clarity. You would be hard pressed to find a better one-handed long blade.

# ? Mar 16, 2017 18:17

I Love You!: Dec 6, 2002

rj54x posted:

Just found the autumn katana on D:6 with a GrFi that has 10 points in M&F. Worth switching to long blades for or nah?

Unless you already have a great evenstar or demon whip, of course.

It's almost always worth swapping if you find an endgame 1hander from another 1hander skill since it doesn't really take that many points before you are way stronger than you were before.

# ? Mar 16, 2017 18:20

mdct: Sep 2, 2011; Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.
Don't steal them.

10 points in a skill is basically nothing in the long run, go for it.

# ? Mar 16, 2017 19:19

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

Yeah 10 points is hardly anything to sacrifice for a weapon that's going to carry you through a lot of the game.

# ? Mar 16, 2017 19:38

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

I don't think 10 points in a skill is nothing, but I also think if at all possible you should go for the unrands when you get the opportunity.

# ? Mar 16, 2017 19:44

Cerepol: Dec 2, 2011

Does Hep's dude get you reduced experience? I'm not sure how the summon exp reduction works.

# ? Mar 16, 2017 20:01

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

FulsomFrank posted:

In latest Malmutate news... Malmutate still sucks!

Popped in Slime for a rune. ... Unsure how you're supposed to do that rune without walking out carrying a few lovely mutates (and a few neutral ones!) unless you can one-shot an unaware Shining Eye.

There are a few methods, but I pretty much go in assuming the worst. Take the shortest route to the bottom, bring immolation if a fighter, quaff new mutation and aim for a moderately poo poo mutation set since I'm often heading for Zot next and hyper malmutater orbs of fire. New mutation potions are usually very good at rerolling the worst, but I did have one game where it took all six to eliminate teleportitis.

I did once one shot one with a wand of scattershot, then took three zaps on the next. Far from impossible to one shot, but damage variance being what it is... Summons, necromutation, jiyva, zin, dithmenos are all options that may not be available. But for lone ones on the descent? Spam summons like a box of beasts, or be stealthy.

# ? Mar 16, 2017 20:23

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

summon lightning spire, unless they changed it, is great vs. most malmutators, because you can drop it in between you and them to block line of fire and it's a pretty cheap spell

# ? Mar 16, 2017 20:25

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

I've got an OpIE who finally reached the Chei Statue Tentacle shuffle. I can certainly see how this combo sort of balloons out of control once you can cast Statue Form, holy poo poo. The only difficulty right now is orb spiders and Slouch is hard to spam when fighting them individually.

# ? Mar 16, 2017 21:02

I Love You!: Dec 6, 2002

Any octopode that makes it to the late game is a hilariously murdermachine, it's just miserable getting there

# ? Mar 16, 2017 22:23

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Can confirm, clowning titanic slime creatures and giant monster mashes without a scratch. It was probably my easiest Shoals end I've ever played too.

EDIT: Slouch x3 and Vaults surprise party is broken up.

Sage Grimm fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Mar 16, 2017

# ? Mar 16, 2017 23:44

Chas McGill: Oct 29, 2010; loves Fat Philippe

Frog man of Wu Jian is a LOT of fun...

# ? Mar 17, 2017 00:39

vOv: Feb 8, 2014

Any advice for where I should take this DsVM? I'm almost done with Lair, and I figure after that and Orc the effectiveness of my poison spells is going to start dropping off, but given the books I have and the Stone Arrow Vehumet is offering me I don't know what to go into.

# ? Mar 17, 2017 01:44

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# ? May 19, 2024 07:35

atomicthumbs: Dec 26, 2010; We're in the business of extending man's senses.

IronicDongz posted:

the damage monsters do(besides spells which just have unique damage rolls per monster, so the same spell can do very different damage from one monster species to another) usually mostly depends on their base damage, not their weapon, so throwing weapons(particularly stones) can be really powerful in the hands of certain enemies, even if you are not a low HP species. the formula is roughly(iirc) 1d(Monster damage) + 1d(Weapon damage) + 1d(Enchantment+Slaying). HD affects to-hit but not actual damage, I believe.

ex: vault wardens have base damage of 36, which means that even though a stone only has 2 damage if a vault warden throws one it can do up to 38 damage. this means they can be more dangerous than javelins, since you're losing some damage but they'll throw them more quickly(monster attack delay is between weapon base delay and 1.0).
this is also why if you are beogh character you want your warlords to have weaker but faster weapons. and why Antaeus spawning with a staff or something else weak isn't actually a good thing.

it left me at -1 hp

# ? Mar 17, 2017 02:24

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