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Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Ccs posted:

I need to learn French.

You can do it there, many have.

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Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

My friend lives in NYC and is paying $1400 for a good sized 1br and it also has a dishwasher and laundry.
My friends in Vancouver pay about that for a 1 br without the frills and earn about 8x less.

2 + 2 = 5
Apr 11, 2003
I find it decidedly INCONVENIENT that the gun was never found.

Subjunctive posted:

You can do it there, many have.
Yup. I live in city centre Quebec City, walk to work (and practically everything else I do), and pay $815 for a 2 BR with a balcony that looks over the Laurentians. I don't miss paying $1400 for a hole in Toronto. And most people here are helpful if you're putting in some effort to learn French.

The Butcher
Apr 20, 2005

Well, at least we tried.
Nap Ghost

Throatwarbler posted:

"Superannuation savings" kind of sounds like an RRSP in Australian Pidgin.

They prob say it as "superannies" or some poo poo.

Blight of the god damned commonwealth.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

The Butcher posted:

They prob say it as "superannies" or some poo poo.

Blight of the god damned commonwealth.

"Superanno" if I had to guess.

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002
Probation
Can't post for 6 hours!
Haha look at all of those syllables. It's just plain super.

It's sad but Oz hasCanada beat on minimum wage, pensions, annual leave and many other working conditions. Too bad it still sucks.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
i think i hate australians even more than canadians or the english

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
nah gently caress the english

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

namaste faggots posted:

i think i hate australians even more than canadians or the english

Let's not say things we can't take back!

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005
It's just "super" you guys are overcomplicating it.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008
Fucken hell Shazza spent all her super down the pokies.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008
Throw another super on the Barbie mate.

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

quote:

Wait ... Vancouver's newest tower goes for how much?

Vancouverites are used to hearing how expensive the real estate market is, but the city's newest tower has managed to surprise residents — once again.

A studio apartment starts at just over $1 million at the new luxurious tower at 1550 Alberni Street.

"You basically have to be a multimillionaire to live there," said Michael Straker, who has lived in the West End for over two decades.

The 43-storey tower designed by Japanese starchitect Kengo Kuma and Vancouver-based developer Westbank is described as nothing less than spectacular.

The average price is $2,000 per square foot for the curved silhouette skyscraper.

While Straker welcomes the tower's unique architecture, he worries what it will do to the neighbourhood.

"You know it is going to be mainly empty and bought as an investment and even people with really good jobs won't be able to afford it," he said.

A troubling prophecy for a neighbourhood like Coal Harbour where 22.2 per cent of homes are empty or non-resident occupied, according to 2016 data gathered by Simon Fraser University's Andy Yan.

"What bothers people is a lot of construction is happening but a lot of the new projects don't seem to be affordable to locals," said Josh Gordon, assistant professor at the School of Public Policy at Simon Fraser University.

"It doesn't seem to be catered to what locals can afford, so they feel shut out of the market," said Gordon.

The tower's developer said the majority of interest has come from the Canadian market.

Local architect Michael Geller doesn't doubt units will be scooped up by investors, but he argues there are numerous benefits to a development like this.

"The developers are paying a significant financial contribution to the city, which can then be used by the city to fund new amenities or go to affordable housing fund," said Geller.

Vancouver developer Jon Stovell insists in order to stop the continued inching up of real estate prices, supply needs to go up.

"If there were seven other high rises marketing at the same time in the same area, the price wouldn't be as high," he said.

"You get a tower launched in downtown Vancouver every six to eight months .... if there were six to eight [towers launched] every one month, you wouldn't see this kind of price escalation," he said.



That is a real dedicated display of sticking to the talking points from Stovell there.

This project isn't being built to be sold to even rich Vancouverites let alone typical ones. This is going to be a mostly empty pied à terre for ultra rich foreign investors. At the risk of outing myself as the sort of yuppie that occasionally reads Monocle magazine (welp too late) amongst the ads for watches and boats, the latest issue has an ad for this condo project. It lists the numbers for the sales centres in Vancouver, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing, Taiwan and Tokyo.

Even with the 15% foreign buyer tax, the developer of this building is pretty bullish on its success.

quote:

Demand for luxury Vancouver condos outstrips available supply, says Canadian developer


Vancouver’s luxury condo market will continue to spiral higher despite a 15 per cent tax for foreign buyers and tightened capital controls in China, according to a Canadian real estate developer.

The city with the most expensive housing market in Canada is still a draw for Hong Kong and mainland Chinese homebuyers seeking a long-term investment destination, said Ian Gillespie, the founder of luxury residential property developer Westbank Projects.

“We have so little product to sell that it just means instead of having three times as many buyers, now we have two times as many buyers as sellers,” Gillespie told the South China Morning Post.
Vancouver’s property market has been cooling since the provincial government imposed a 15 per cent tax on overseas buyers in August to help cool the market.

The number of residential units sold in February was down 41.9 per cent from a record number a year ago and a 7.7 per cent below the 10-year average, according to the Real Estate Board o f Greater Vancouver.

A benchmark price index went down 2.8 per cent over the past six months, although it edged up 1.2 per cent compared to January.

But Gillespie said most of the sales drop were in single-family houses rather than apartments.

Westbank’s new residential tower, designed by prominent Japanese architect Kengo Kuma, will house more than 180 condos as well as an art gallery, a Japanese-style garden and a Michelin-starred restaurant.

The building is scheduled to be completed in 2021.

“The buyers who have come to us tend to be more well-travelled, with higher education level probably and have a higher appreciation for fine arts,” Gillespie said.
In addition to the foreign buyer’s tax, tightened capital controls in China are also believed to have ricocheted through the property market in Vancouver.

During the Lunar New Year holiday, Vancouver saw 119 sales of detached homes in the city, 87 per cent down from the holiday period last year, according to real estate blog Better Dwelling. This year’s sales result was 78 per cent below the average 563 detached homes sold during the five previous Lunar New Year holidays, according to Better Dwelling.

Meanwhile, condo sales were also under pressure. A total of 283 units sold during the holiday period, reflecting a drop of 72 per cent from 1,021 units sold in 2016, according to Better Dwelling.

Although multiple factors appear to be behind the market cooling, Gillespie said demand from Chinese buyers remains in excess of the number of units he has for sale.

Westbank Projects has sales teams in Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen and Chengdu. Gillespie will head to the Chinese capital later this month to help market the company’s new residential project.

“But I do think it [capital controls] has probably held Vancouver back. Prices would have been even higher,” Gillespie said. “I think that may be a good thing. I wouldn’t want to see Vancouver’s prices run away and get to Hong Kong’s levels.”

This year the Lunar New Year’s day was unusually early, falling between January 27 and February 2, compared to last year when the holiday fell on February 7 to 13.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
Haha I bet you have Hypebeast bookmarked too

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

No but I bought an issue of the Hypebeast magazine once, which I think is even worse.

Man if I didn't spend so much money on aspirational yuppie magazines I'd be able to afford a downpayment on a lovely condo in Coquitlam.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

2 + 2 = 5 posted:

And most people here are helpful if you're putting in some effort to learn French*.

* May not apply in downtown Montreal. That place is full of jerks, but once you get into the rest of Montreal or the rest of Quebec, things get way better. That's one of the major, major mistakes I made.

leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Fun Shoe
Ah yes, the Rest of Quebec, famous for its lack of jerks.

Reince Penis
Nov 15, 2007

by R. Guyovich
Montreal is full of jerks, as any world class city should be.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin
Oh no I am too terrified to move or travel to another part of Canada what if the people there are jerks!

- A straight white middle class male.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
Still butthurt he got laughed out of annies for asking that they turn the TV to the rodeo channel

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

The rodeo is a national event this is western alienation that the media isn't covering it enough!

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
https://twitter.com/vexmark/status/842435814697144324

Uh oh u guys

leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Fun Shoe
it's different in Canada tho. Delinquency rates are still fine. everything is fine.

Terebus
Feb 17, 2007

Pillbug
Does anyone have a good explanation for why delinquency rates in canada are so low? Are all the people in debt paying their debt with credit cards or something?

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe

Terebus posted:

Does anyone have a good explanation for why delinquency rates in canada are so low? Are all the people in debt paying their debt with credit cards or something?

that's exactly it.

also, see albertans

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/after-a-35-year-rally-bonds-are-heading-for-trouble/article34152784/

quote:


After a 35-year rally, bonds are heading for trouble

Portfolio statements should come with a warning, one that says a big chunk of your portfolio is unlikely to produce a penny in profit. This cautionary statement wouldn’t need to be based on some radical call about where the economy is headed. All it would have to do is explain the depressing math behind today’s bond market.

At current prices, a diversified basket of Canadian bonds produces a yield to maturity of barely 2% a year. Take into account the bite of inflation, as well as the steady erosion produced by fees if you hold a bond fund, and the best you can reasonably hope for is to break even in real terms. Oh, and that’s before paying taxes on the paltry interest income that does trickle into your pocket.

Given that ugly reality, bonds look like the worst proposition this side of a vacation in Aleppo. Yet they continue to make up a third to a half of many portfolios. It’s a situation that should make investors scratch their heads. Why devote so much money to something that will struggle to simply maintain its current value?

Many financial advisers respond that bonds aren’t in your portfolio to make a big return; they’re there to buffer you if the stock market crashes. Fair enough: If Bay Street and Wall Street tumble tomorrow, you’ll be glad about your bonds, even if they don’t generate any profits.

However, that logic assumes bonds are safer than stocks. It may be time to re-examine that proposition.

Paul Schmelzing, a doctoral candidate at Harvard University and visiting scholar at the Bank of England, recently looked at eight centuries of bond market smackdowns and concluded that another bloodletting in the fixed-income market is highly likely. “History suggests this reversal will be driven by inflation fundamentals and leave investors worse off than the 1994 bond massacre,” he wrote in January.

In large part, the bond sell-off will be a reaction to yesterday’s excesses, notably the long downward slide in key interest rates since the early 1980s. The past 35 years “constitute one of the most remarkable periods in economic history” for the world’s risk-free asset of choice, Schmelzing says. Not since the 16th century have benchmark bond yields marched steadily downward for so long. Never in 800 years have they hit the lows that U.S. treasuries hit last year.

All that sets the stage for a bloody reversal. If inflation shoots up in the years ahead, surging interest rates will hammer bond investors, because bond prices move inversely to rates.

Schmelzing blames the coming debacle on central bank policies, notably quantitative easing, that have encouraged investors to misprice the risk involved in holding long-term government bonds. He argues we’re now in a period similar to the last half of the 1960s, when the U.S. government opened its wallet to finance the Vietnam War despite a labour market already at full employment. Inflation soared in response; so did interest rates. “With-in four years, bond investors lost an aggregated 36% in real terms,” he says.

President Donald Trump’s promises to goose an already tight U.S. labour market could have a similar impact. Automated “value at risk” bond trading programs might amplify the effect if they prod banks to start dumping their bonds once rates start moving up.

So should you rush out of bonds now? Despite Schmelzing’s impressive research, I’m not entirely convinced. History may not apply in a global economy built on fiat currencies overseen by powerful central banks. It’s possible we’re in a new era in which returns on all assets will be lower than in the past. If so, you may not benefit much by jumping out of bonds and into real estate or stocks.

Still, it seems reasonable to limit your exposure to what might lie ahead. Stick to bonds that mature in five years or less, because they will be hurt less than longer-dated bonds if yields shoot upward. Also, consider cash and reasonably priced stocks as bond alternatives. If this is a massive bond-market bubble, as Schmelzing argues, you need buffers against the carnage ahead.

Note that this shithead is one of Niall Ferguson's grad students so feel free to ignore. That said if he's right, it's gonna be hilarious because all those baby boomers relying on their pensions are gonna need a lot of depends

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011


So when the bubbles in Vancouver and Toronto implode, who is left holding the bill? If we're correct in thinking that the government will bail homeowners out, then will it just be provincial taxpayers who are providing that money? Or is it going to require the federal government to put in money in order to prevent a total economic clusterfuck?

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002

by Athanatos

Ccs posted:

So when the bubbles in Vancouver and Toronto implode, who is left holding the bill? If we're correct in thinking that the government will bail homeowners out, then will it just be provincial taxpayers who are providing that money? Or is it going to require the federal government to put in money in order to prevent a total economic clusterfuck?

The bubbles wont pop until there is a macro shock so it likely be the federal government backstopping the mess.

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


The bubbles will pop destroying the economy, hyper-inflation will take hold, and you won't care about owing $1m on a condo because a loaf of bread will be $500,000. The winners will be the gamblers, the small losers those holding cash. the big losers those who traded 10 million dirty yuan for 200 thousand canadian dollars that are now worth 50 yuan.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Throatwarbler posted:

Oh no I am too terrified to move or travel to another part of Canada what if the people there are jerks!

- A straight white middle class male.

1) I did move there.
2) Given what I learned, if I moved back to Montreal, I would avoid downtown like the plague and live in a different part of the city. I wish I'd done that the first time around.

Edit: being honest, my problem is that I always live around and have to deal with people who are too much like me and it's just no good. My comfort zone in the short term is surprisingly uncomfortable in the medium to long term.

PT6A fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Mar 17, 2017

Rime
Nov 2, 2011

by Games Forum

Powershift posted:

The bubbles will pop destroying the economy, hyper-inflation will take hold, and you won't care about owing $1m on a condo because a loaf of bread will be $500,000. The winners will be the gamblers, the small losers those holding cash. the big losers those who traded 10 million dirty yuan for 200 thousand canadian dollars that are now worth 50 yuan.

Don't stop, I'm so close. :fap:

Oysters Autobio
Mar 13, 2017

PT6A posted:


Edit: being honest, my problem is that I always live around and have to deal with people who are too much like me and it's just no good. My comfort zone in the short term is surprisingly uncomfortable in the medium to long term.

Holy poo poo, no one cares.

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005

PT6A posted:

I always live around and have to deal with people who are too much like me and it's just no good.
You're saying you find people similar to you to be intolerable? Gee I am shocked!

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
Oh man a guy spends a week reading your poo poo and already wants you to stfu

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe

quote:

The Next RBA Rate Increases Will Have Triple the Force of 90s Hikes

It could get ugly for Aussie homeowners.
by Michael Heath
March 15, 2017, 11:00 AM PDT


The sheer scale of Australia's household debt means lifting interest rates is going to be a far more sensitive operation than previous tightening cycles.

At present, just two economists think the Reserve Bank of Australia will hike rates this year as it frets about hefty mortgages and financial stability. Goldman Sachs and TD Securities both expect a single quarter-percentage-point increase in the fourth quarter, while traders are pricing in a 30 percent chance of a December hike.

But consider a hypothetical scenario where the Federal Reserve turns aggressive in lifting rates, the Australian dollar tumbles, and the RBA seeks to tame a subsequent boost in inflation with monetary policy: too much household debt would pose a risk of the central bank crushing the economy with the hit from rate rises.



James McIntyre, head of economic research at Macquarie Bank, has run the ruler over previous tightening cycles in the mid 1990s and turn of the century, the first of which involved 11 quarter-point hikes. He found that the subsequent surge in households' debt servicing ratio -- interest costs as a portion of disposable income -- would be achieved with less than a third of those hikes today, thanks to record high private debt levels.


``The RBA's reticence about further increases in household debt-to-income ratios is clear when you begin to consider how potent interest-rate rises might be from a debt-servicing perspective,'' McIntyre said. ``At the current level of debt-to-income, we estimate that three to four 25 basis-point rate hikes would deliver a bigger increase in debt-servicing costs for households than 10 to 11 rate hikes did in the mid-1990s.''

McIntyre, who doesn't expect a rate increase until early 2019 when core inflation is likely back inside its 2 percent to 3 percent target, notes the other difference between the periods is a wider spread between the cash rate and lenders' mortgage rates: from 180 basis points to about 375 basis points.

Macquarie estimates that given households’ debt levels -- currently at a record 187 percent of income -- a one percentage point increase in the RBA's cash rate would, in the absence of further increases in lenders' borrowing rates, push the household debt servicing ratio beyond 10 percent.

Frontier Advisors, an asset consultancy for institutional investors, similarly said this week that while Aussie household debt serviceability is currently manageable given low rates, the key risk is when they increase. That's down to the limited capacity for households to accommodate higher borrowing costs.

Its modelling suggests Australian house prices are 15 to 20 percent overvalued, and that a rate rise of more than 1.5 percent would imply a higher level of overvaluation -- at which point a correction would become more likely. The Melbourne-based consultant said it doesn't expect a house price collapse.

``Given the sensitivity of the housing market to monetary policy, this is likely to provide a cap on how high interest rates will rise going forward,'' said Chris Trevillyan, director of capital markets and asset allocation research at Frontier. ``The RBA will avoid triggering the kind of house price collapse that will have a major impact on bank capital.''

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...m_medium=social
Uh oh

Postess with the Mostest
Apr 4, 2007

Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

quote:

Two big banks are waving red flags about Toronto housing prices, calling them "simply unsustainable" and a "bubble" in separate reports.

"It's pretty much the best time to be selling a Toronto home in at least 30 years," BMO economist Robert Kavcic said, noting that activity in neighbouring regions are being impacted.

"The strength now also spreads as far as Guelph and Barrie, where average prices are pushing 30 per cent year over year [and] even London and Windsor are seriously gaining momentum," Kavcic said. "Supply-side fundamentals have been left in the dust."

Housing prices are not just a problem for people in Toronto and its environs. The growing bubble could soon threaten Canada's entire economy, TD Bank said in a report Thursday.

Higher house prices have been juicing Canada's economy not only via transaction fees and taxes, but also by a phenomenon known as the "wealth effect."

Broadly speaking, the wealth effect means that when people see the value of their houses go up on paper, they feel richer, so they go out and spend real money on other things.

That spending boosts the economy, but it can't go on forever, TD warned. "Home prices across the GTA and surrounding areas appear to be detaching from fundamentals and are simply unsustainable," the bank said Thursday in its quarterly forecast for Canada's economy.

If the bubble pops, it won't only be over-leveraged Torontonians who bear the brunt.

The good news is that sort of shock "typically requires a trigger," and the bank sees nothing on the immediate horizon likely to set off a chain reaction.

After having taken multiple steps to cool the market from a policy perspective — including higher mortgage insurance premiums that kick in today — Ottawa's likely staying on the sidelines for now.

And the other element fuelling high house prices — low interest rates — are unlikely to disappear any time soon. That means "in the absence of government policy intervention or a sharp movement in interest rates, momentum is likely to keep the Toronto housing party going for at least a few more quarters," TD said.

The risk remains that some factor will eventually take away the punch bowl, and when that happens, there could be a lengthy hangover.

Porter notes that when Toronto prices peaked in 1989, it took Toronto prices nearly two decades to recover, once inflation is factored in.

As TD put it: "This pace cannot last forever."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/toronto-housing-bmo-td-1.4028032

The comments are the real magic

quote:

- This so-called "crash" already happened in Vancouver! Prices went up 30% in one year and dropped 5% after the tax rule. Those who bought a house last year are still winners even if it drops another 15%. i just feel sorry for people (including myself) who listened to these doom and gloom stories for years!

- That analyst is not the sharpest tool in the shed. His case rests on the inability of the buyer to come up with a 20% down payment. This is all due to CMHC rules, has nothing to do with the free market. With fewer regulations, they'd had no problem getting financed by a private lender.. if they were located in the US, shopping for a house in even pricier San Francisco, they could get that 1 mil loan, no problem - no silly insurance needed. What they could buy with 1 mil, it's another story.

- CBC should do a better job at analyzing the housing market. The fact of the matter is people are still buying houses. And the majority of these are not foreigners. Some houses that were sold attracted multiple offers, up to 25. That means there are 24 other couples still looking. The demand is there but not the supply.

- as long as foreigners (And non Canadians) are allowed to buy up homes, land, properties, condos, town houses, and farms, businesses, cottages, rental units, etc... It will never pop.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
Stop the cmhc from meddling with the free market!!!!

Wasting
Apr 25, 2013

The next to go

namaste faggots posted:

Stop the cmhc from meddling with the free market!!!!

And it's this kind of commenter's business savvy supporting prices

DariusLikewise
Oct 4, 2008

You wore that on Halloween?
TD is supppeerrrrrrr worried about home prices, but we'll give you a 1 million dollar mortgage at 2.4% variable interest with 5% down!

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Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


PT6A posted:

1) I did move there.
2) Given what I learned, if I moved back to Montreal, I would avoid downtown like the plague and live in a different part of the city. I wish I'd done that the first time around.

Edit: being honest, my problem is that I always live around and have to deal with people who are too much like me and it's just no good. My comfort zone in the short term is surprisingly uncomfortable in the medium to long term.

If everybody's an rear end in a top hat everywhere you go, maybe you're the rear end in a top hat.

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