|
John Heinz. Edit: admitted, it's a weird story
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 01:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 12:17 |
|
|
Lurdiak posted:Everyone should understand the difference between liking things and thinking things are good, anything else is pure narcissism. I really like Komissar Rex, that doesn't make it a well-written, acted, produced, or even well shot TV show. I just like that it has heroic dog cop! I also like Pizza Hut, but I don't think it's "good pizza". Trying to push something you like as being good just because you like it is the sort of thing high school should cure you of, let alone college. Just the opposite: the gap between "i love it" and "it's great" is the gap between your confidence in your opinion and your imagination of how other people judge you. As a grown rear end bitch, you should not give a flying gently caress. Like what's the difference between "this pizza tastes good to me" and "this pizza is good"? It's an imaginary objective goodness, or rather, an existing socio-cultural standard of good you feel pressured to conform to. The failure of your tastebuds to conform is excused by your acknowledgement that your preference is "wrong" or "ironic". Irony is a dead scene. You don't like things you don't like.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 01:13
|
|
|
Did he get blown into 57 pieces
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 01:14
|
|
|
DeimosRising posted:Just the opposite: the gap between "i love it" and "it's great" is the gap between your confidence in your opinion and your imagination of how other people judge you. As a grown rear end bitch, you should not give a flying gently caress. Like what's the difference between "this pizza tastes good to me" and "this pizza is good"? It's an imaginary objective goodness, or rather, an existing socio-cultural standard of good you feel pressured to conform to. The failure of your tastebuds to conform is excused by your acknowledgement that your preference is "wrong" or "ironic". Irony is a dead scene. You don't like things you don't like. Exactly. If Timby loves Street Fighter, he should confidently argue its greatness on the basis that "it goes whole hog with the absurdity, and Revell's score is excellent".
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 01:17
|
|
|
The cultural concept of "best" is a movie that's both universally appealing and engagingly unique, while "favorite" is a movie that might turn people off but gets you going. If you find The Room to be an intoxicating emotional experience a lot of people will get upset if you call it "the best movie". They're dumb, though, and you should hit them in the head.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 01:21
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:You haven't seen Suspiria? Not even Dawn of the Dead really. I saw half of it when I was a teen. Does Day of the Dead have a Goblin soundtrack? I've seen that one.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 01:23
|
|
|
I don't think I could make a favorites list simply because after I got to a certain age, I stopped even thinking about what my favorite things are in the things I like. I have no recourse for whenever the dog bites and the bee stings.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 01:25
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:Not even Dawn of the Dead really. I saw half of it when I was a teen. code:
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 01:26
|
|
Timby posted:Out of all the characters Marvel chose to develop shows about, Iron Fist is the one that confused me the most. Like, Daredevil? Okay. Jessica Jones? Sure, she had a resurgence in popularity. Luke Cage? Totally get that, too (even if the show was terrible). But "billionaire white man becomes a monk, learns ancient martial arts technique and fights with his magic glowing fist to take back his family's company?" In what universe does that sound like a good idea? Daredevil's a B-list Marvel character, Jessica Jones and Cage are like C-list, Iron Fist is ... Z-list. Iron Fist got worked in because he's Luke Cage's inseparable buddy, and he's been a persistent background presence in Marvel's "street team" for several decades. He also contrasts really well with characters like Daredevil since he's generally more upbeat than them, and Luke Cage having a white rich kid buddy is a good opportunity for some fun contrasts. His kung fu roots are also a great fit for the kind of action setpieces that made people take note of Daredevil in the first place. But since they totally dropped the "heroes for hire" show and indeed the entire concept of being for hire from Luke Cage's netflix series, Danny doesn't have the connection to Luke that makes him such a natural fit, and they didn't bring a single drat thing that's interesting or cute about the character to the netflix show, including martial arts fights. Uncle Boogeyman posted:I don't think Iron Fist is any more C-list than Luke Cage, and they're both best known for being partners in a team-up book, so it makes intuitive sense. He also had a pretty successful comic run not too long ago that put a couple of well-renowned creators on the map. Yeah. Immortal Iron Fist was kind of a while ago and the character's sort of floundered in more recent comics, but it made a big splash at the time and was a really fun book. And once again, none of what's in that book (going balls-out on the magical kung fu city in the sky and the spectacle of Danny's powers and his dragon-based origin, other martial arts super-characters with interesting over the top gimmicks like Fat Cobra and The Bride of Nine Spiders, a super badass martial arts tournament pitting all these ridiculous characters against each other, punching a loving train) seems to have made it to the TV show. So we have a show that doesn't draw on the fun camp aspect of the original Iron Fist comic, doesn't use him as a cute contrast to the other established Marvel Netflix gang, doesn't draw on the spectacle and creativity of the critical darling modern comic, and doesn't have good martial arts fights or a likeable lead. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Mar 18, 2017 |
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 01:29
|
|
|
Magic Hate Ball posted:Did he get blown into 57 pieces He left nothing but a red smear.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 01:36
|
|
DeimosRising posted:Just the opposite: the gap between "i love it" and "it's great" is the gap between your confidence in your opinion and your imagination of how other people judge you. As a grown rear end bitch, you should not give a flying gently caress. Like what's the difference between "this pizza tastes good to me" and "this pizza is good"? It's an imaginary objective goodness, or rather, an existing socio-cultural standard of good you feel pressured to conform to. The failure of your tastebuds to conform is excused by your acknowledgement that your preference is "wrong" or "ironic". Irony is a dead scene. You don't like things you don't like. Irony's got nothing to do with it, I'm simply acknowledging the human condition where you can like something without that thing being good. If you're unable to make that distinction you're saying that your personal taste and experience is the only arbiter of something's merit, which is essentially abandoning most concepts that govern modern society. That isn't the same as saying that something that isn't liked by the masses has no value, because anything can have personal value. And it's also not arguing for some kind of populism of opinions where the majority perspective is the correct one. But abandoning the concept of separating the personal and the objective is again, narcissism. I don't like Dark Souls at all, that doesn't mean I can go around calling it a poo poo game. That would be incredibly puerile and unfairly devalue the enjoyment others have gotten from it, as well as the work put into the series. I'm not so self-absorbed that I think the fact that the games are as fun as getting a ballsack wax job means they're just bad.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 01:40
|
|
|
Magic Hate Ball posted:
When my anxiety and depression lets me watch cool old things I will. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 01:44
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:When my anxiety and depression lets me watch cool old things I will. Night Train to Terror is a great depression movie. Trust me, I know. Also, 2016 catch-up status report: Peter and the Farm is still my favorite documentary/overall film of 2016, but god drat if HyperNormalisation and now Cameraperson aren't functionally tied with it. Even better news, since I didn't realize Cameraperson was a memoir/collage film before I saw it, I now need to add every movie featured in it into my watchlist after I'm done running through Kong films.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 01:52
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:Irony's got nothing to do with it, I'm simply acknowledging the human condition where you can like something without that thing being good. If you're unable to make that distinction you're saying that your personal taste and experience is the only arbiter of something's merit, which is essentially abandoning most concepts that govern modern society. o nooooooooo lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 01:54
|
|
|
That's only a problem if you refuse 2 change your mind ever when ur wrong... le wink @ u Lurdiak!
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 01:58
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:Irony's got nothing to do with it, I'm simply acknowledging the human condition where you can like something without that thing being good. If you're unable to make that distinction you're saying that your personal taste and experience is the only arbiter of something's merit, which is essentially abandoning most concepts that govern modern society. That isn't the same as saying that something that isn't liked by the masses has no value, because anything can have personal value. And it's also not arguing for some kind of populism of opinions where the majority perspective is the correct one. But abandoning the concept of separating the personal and the objective is again, narcissism. But what is "objective" when it comes to art?
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 01:59
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:Not even Dawn of the Dead really. I saw half of it when I was a teen. Also don't forget the Italian movie where they stole the soundtrack https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RUCuLnsLeA
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:02
|
|
|
The Room is one of my favorite movies specifically because it is bad. See also Neil Breen joints
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:02
|
|
|
weekly font posted:The Room is one of my favorite movies specifically because it is bad. See also Neil Breen joints The Room is bad, but only by a specific set of criteria. It just so happens that most people agree with that set of criteria, but that doesn't necessarily make those criteria the objective standard for quality. Your criteria for saying it's good is different than the criteria that says it's bad. To you the movie is good. e: Yes I realize these are pointless arguments over semantics, basically.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:07
|
|
|
Spatulater bro! posted:The Room is bad, but only by a specific set of criteria. It just so happens that most people agree with that set of criteria, but that doesn't necessarily make those criteria the objective standard for quality. Your criteria for saying it's good is different than the criteria that says it's bad. To you the movie is good. This sounds snarky but I don't mean it to be it's a genuine question: does this only apply to art? Are the New York Jets the best football team cause they are my favorite?
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:12
|
|
|
I don't think quality comes from popular appraisal, it is rhetorical and, thus, there's no reason to get hung-up about it being fundamentally 'subjective.' The least objective thing to do is discount subjectivity. A well-honed, critically attentive subjective criticism is way preferable to some popularity context or aggregation or whatever. So we get to a place with The Room where all of the reasons it's exceptionally bad are also the reasons it's exceptionally good, and what's truly odious is mediocrity.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:13
|
|
|
weekly font posted:This sounds snarky but I don't mean it to be it's a genuine question: does this only apply to art? Are the New York Jets the best football team cause they are my favorite? Yes
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:13
|
|
|
No because they're actually the New Jersey Jets
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:14
|
|
|
weekly font posted:This sounds snarky but I don't mean it to be it's a genuine question: does this only apply to art? Are the New York Jets the best football team cause they are my favorite? All New York sports teams are trash, the only thing keeping them from being the worst is the existence of Texas sports teams.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:17
|
|
|
weekly font posted:This sounds snarky but I don't mean it to be it's a genuine question: does this only apply to art? Are the New York Jets the best football team cause they are my favorite? I'd say it applies to sports, yeah. If your criteria for best is the team with the best record, then that's pretty cut and dry. But who says that's the only thing that makes a team good? Surely there are less quantifiable traits a team could possess that you could base your opinion around.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:19
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:Also, 2016 catch-up status report: Peter and the Farm is still my favorite documentary/overall film of 2016, but god drat if HyperNormalisation and now Cameraperson aren't functionally tied with it. Even better news, since I didn't realize Cameraperson was a memoir/collage film before I saw it, I now need to add every movie featured in it into my watchlist after I'm done running through Kong films.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:20
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:All New York sports teams are trash, the only thing keeping them from being the worst is the existence of Texas sports teams. Actually, Dallas area sports teams are cool and good
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:22
|
|
|
weekly font posted:This sounds snarky but I don't mean it to be it's a genuine question: does this only apply to art? Are the New York Jets the best football team cause they are my favorite? Best team to watch? It sounds like it. Because sports happen whether you're watching them or not and have objective records of wins or losses whereas there's nothing to a movie other than watching it. So if the Jets are your fave team, they may lose all the time but you love watching them more than other teams.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:24
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:All New York sports teams are trash, the only thing keeping them from being the worst is the existence of Texas sports teams. Boston dawg. Also I see your argument but I'm not super on board. I will agree that mediocrity is the truly silent killer tho
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:24
|
|
|
Lobok posted:So if the Jets are your fave team, they may lose all the time but you love watching them more than other teams. Every Jets fan knows this isn't true. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:25
|
|
|
my "best vs. favorite" division has nothing to do with universality and very little to do with respecting other people's opinions my favorites are probably more populist, not less good examples of things i'd put in contention for "best" film are things like, Kubo and the Two Strings or Triumph of the Will, neither of which i like at all, but i'm capable of recognizing the artistry that i would be totally on board with if i weren't violently repulsed by the actual message
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:30
|
|
|
weekly font posted:Boston dawg. Yeah your right. Mea Culpa.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:30
|
|
|
peaks vs. consistency is another good example, for example there's one scene in Jupiter Ascending that made me laugh really hard and another scene that surprised me in a way that very clean "professionally" scripted movies usually don't. the singularity of those experiences made me pick it over Fury Road not because they add up to more (they absolutely don't, not even in my own solipsistic bubble of assessment) but because they stuck with me longer
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:33
|
|
|
weekly font posted:Every Jets fan knows this isn't true. I'm a Leafs fan!
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:34
|
|
|
Coaaab posted:Because of Cameraperson's form, I feel confident that could randomly pick out five moments from that film and submit that as a ballot for best scene of the year. And now mainly because of you talking it up, I plan on watching Peter and the Farm over the weekend. You will not be disappointed. Peter and the Farm kicks rear end, the cinematography is awesome, and the interaction between the subject and filmmakers is easily up there with 2015's similar documentary masterpiece, Sonita, which is also a must see for anyone who likes documentaries. I'm just glad I caught Cameraperson because it's literally the epitome of what everyone's talking about with the duality of my "favorite" versus what I think is "the best." I think I like Peter and the Farm more, but I think HyperNormalisation and Cameraperson are really closely tied for best documentaries of 2016. Needless to say, Audrie & Daisy and Weiner are some other stand-outs. Maybe it's just me, but I think The First Monday in May is thoroughly engaging. Not related: I am writing in a ballot for Belgica and the pilot for The Get Down being the better than versions of La La Land.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:35
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:my "best vs. favorite" division has nothing to do with universality and very little to do with respecting other people's opinions See, I don't put artistry and personal enjoyment into two separate camps. If a movie is both technically proficient and abhorrently immoral, the two cancel each other out. It's kinda like every movie starts at a 0 and gains a point for something I like about it and loses a point for something I dislike about it. It's a singular scale and ultimately a singular opinion.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:37
|
|
|
FishBulb posted:No because they're actually the New Jersey Jets It's hilarious to me that it's significantly easier for an SF 49ers fan to see an Oakland Raiders game than a San Francisco 49ers game. gently caress, even after they probably move to Vegas it will still be a faster commute to see a Raiders game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:41
|
|
|
Spatulater bro! posted:See, I don't put artistry and personal enjoyment into two separate camps. If a movie is both technically proficient and abhorrently immoral, the two cancel each other out. It's kinda like every movie starts at a 0 and gains a point for something I like about it and loses a point for something I dislike about it. It's a singular scale and ultimately a singular opinion. i'm not really interested in creating a Tomatometer inside my brain i mean arguably that battle has already been lost by agreeing to do a list in the first place but ehh
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 02:53
|
|
|
Spatulater bro! posted:See, I don't put artistry and personal enjoyment into two separate camps. If a movie is both technically proficient and abhorrently immoral, the two cancel each other out. It's kinda like every movie starts at a 0 and gains a point for something I like about it and loses a point for something I dislike about it. It's a singular scale and ultimately a singular opinion. Speaking personally, I don't judge things in that manner. A separation between "best" and "favorite" is useful to me precisely because I do not have a singular opinion.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 03:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 12:17 |
|
|
Spatulater bro! posted:See, I don't put artistry and personal enjoyment into two separate camps. If a movie is both technically proficient and abhorrently immoral, the two cancel each other out. It's kinda like every movie starts at a 0 and gains a point for something I like about it and loses a point for something I dislike about it. It's a singular scale and ultimately a singular opinion. I think the most important thing about a movie is how it affects you on a personal and an honestly emotional level. Entertaining bad movies mean a lot more than a boring technically well-made one with nothing to say.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2017 03:04
|
|
