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Jack2142 posted:I don't think that definition has anything to support thinking someone opinion is wrong necessitates being mad at them. Right, "you mad, bro?" is a question precisely because getting mad about most differences of opinion is a weird sort of self own.
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Mar 18, 2017 18:15
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Number Ten Cocks posted:It won't. Look, if I see you and your wife walking down the street I can infer that in your opinion she's attractive, but I think she looks like a dog's rear end I'm not compelled to be angry about our differing opinions. Befuddlement, contempt, pity, or indifference at this state of affairs all seem more likely reactions than anger. If you wrote like a full page worth of text about how ugly some guy you saw on the street's wife was just because you heard him say he thought she was attractive, I'd probably think you were pretty upset. That seems reasonable. Good try though. Jack2142 posted:I don't think that definition has anything to support thinking someone opinion is wrong necessitates being mad at them. People in this thread often get really upset if someone has a different opinion. They usually post a bunch of paragraphs in defense of the books. I'm sorry if you don't like the word 'angry' to describe it, but you're putting a lot of effort into attacking his opinion for little to no gain. What emotion would you prefer that to be described as?
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Mar 18, 2017 18:15
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Captain Monkey posted:If you wrote like a full page worth of text about how ugly some guy you saw on the street's wife was just because you heard him say he thought she was attractive, I'd probably think you were pretty upset. That seems reasonable. Good try though. Right, we've established you have an unusual reaction to this not shared by more mentally balanced people. In my opinion you're projecting from some serious personal emotional control issues. Do you agree with my opinion, and, if not, how does that disagreement make you feel? I'd be amused in your shoes, but I fear you just started beating your dog. E: Look at Bravest of the Lamps many many many pages of Rothfuss criticism in that thread. Huge effort posts in why it's crap, no perceptible anger about it. Number Ten Cocks fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Mar 18, 2017 |
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Mar 18, 2017 18:25
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Wow, most interesting Sci-fi discussion
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Mar 18, 2017 18:33
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Captain Monkey posted:If you wrote like a full page worth of text about how ugly some guy you saw on the street's wife was just because you heard him say he thought she was attractive, I'd probably think you were pretty upset. That seems reasonable. Good try though. I mean multiple people in the thread have said they didn't care for the book series, thats fine Coyoe was lumping in some other things that I don't really think are actually true and I was disagreeing with that. I mean sure if all disagreements of opinion mean you are automatically angry then yeah I guess that goes a long way to explain this worlds hosed up politics at the moment. Take the plunge! Okay! posted:Wow, most interesting Sci-fi discussion Do you have any Sci-Fi books to recommend, was going to look at the Expanse yet I have heard mixed things about it in this thread/subforum. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Mar 18, 2017 |
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Mar 18, 2017 18:33
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Number Ten Cocks posted:Right, we've established you have an unusual reaction to this not shared by more mentally balanced people. In my opinion you're projecting from some serious personal emotional control issues. Do you agree with my opinion, and, if not, how does that disagreement make you feel? I'd be amused in your shoes, but I fear you just started beating your dog. We haven't actually established anything, you thought up a scenario and I pointed out that it was pretty silly. If you shut down some dude saying his wife was attractive, and dumped all over her for a while, then it is reasonable to assume you're being a jerk/are mad/whatever. Like, if you think its normal to go up to a guy on the street and start shouting down his opinion about the attractiveness of his wife, then I'm not the one who is mentally unbalanced. Either way, you can feel however you want! I was just having a discussion with you because you asked. Jack2142 posted:I mean multiple people in the thread have said they didn't care for the book series, thats fine Coyoe was lumping in some other things that I don't really think are actually true and I was disagreeing with that. I mean sure if all disagreements of opinion mean you are automatically angry then yeah I guess that goes a long way to explain this worlds hosed up politics at the moment. Well, what word do you want to describe 'writing an essay to tell someone they're wrong about their personal opinion'? I'm open to your suggestion here.
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Mar 18, 2017 18:38
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Captain Monkey posted:Well, what word do you want to describe 'writing an essay to tell someone they're wrong about their personal opinion'? I'm open to your suggestion here. Critics? Lawyers? Op Ed columnists? Advertisers? Public relations? Parents? Clergy? Surely not all of these people are motivated by rage when they try to convince people to have different opinions and perspectives.
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Mar 18, 2017 18:48
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Just kiss already.Neurosis posted:It had a lot less boring text that said nothing of interest than Pillars of Eternity, at least. Numenera was much better in that regard, too. Yeah, but still a lot of that overwrought style that I know I'd never tolerate in a book but in a video game it's kind of whatever because the video game industry hasn't yet realized that when you include a lot of prose you need someone to take an axe to a lot of it. NBD as it goes. neongrey fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Mar 18, 2017 |
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Mar 18, 2017 18:52
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Number Ten Cocks posted:Critics? Lawyers? Op Ed columnists? Advertisers? Public relations? Parents? Clergy? You seem to be having trouble with the idea that there is a difference between your scenario that you invented, where you tell a guy his wife is ugly in excruciating detail and a job as a lawyer in a court room. Once you've figured out the distinction we can have a discussion.
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Mar 18, 2017 18:53
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chill out and just talk about books you like, you autists reading that breach series suggested a while back, and it's enjoyable though not overly well written. It favors unlikely happenings that skew for dramatics and last second rescues and the characters also aren't the brightest, but if you can look past those it's a not too bad kinda airport fictiony read. Bhodi fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Mar 18, 2017 |
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Mar 18, 2017 18:57
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Bhodi posted:chill out and just talk about books you like, you autists I literally bought the first of those books at a stand in the Detroit airport.
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Mar 18, 2017 19:02
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Jack2142 posted:
Hop over to the current BOTM thread and read The Dispossessed with us
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Mar 18, 2017 19:05
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Captain Monkey posted:You seem to be having trouble with the idea that there is a difference between your scenario that you invented, where you tell a guy his wife is ugly in excruciating detail and a job as a lawyer in a court room. Once you've figured out the distinction we can have a discussion. I didn't say anything at all about telling some random guy anything. I was speaking about my hypothetical non-angry internal reactions to your hypothetical personal freak show walking by me on the street. Your original point was that feeling a difference of opinion is necessarily motivated by anger, which is a pretty weird thing to say! Since that's clearly the case you moved the goal posts by talking about actual expressions of differences of opinion and now you're dodging again because you apparently have no effective response to the facts that there are several non-violent and respected professions devoted to arguing against opinions. There's only one way to resolve this. neongrey posted:Just kiss already. I was going to say post pics of your wife for me to deliver an opinion, but ok. (Black Company was good when I was 16, probably not anymore. I guess some internal rage must have changed my opinion.)
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Mar 18, 2017 19:08
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Currently reading the most recent book of the Craft Sequence and I'm wondering if the internal chronology is nailed down. I know Last First Snow is before Two Serpents Rise, Four Corners Cross is after Three Parts Dead, and Full Fathom Five is after Two Serpents, but it's not clear to me how the Alt Coulumb books relate to FFF or the Dresediel Lex books.
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Mar 18, 2017 19:17
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I really enjoyed the Craft Sequence, I am really looking forward to more of them.
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Mar 18, 2017 19:38
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Number Ten Cocks posted:Currently reading the most recent book of the Craft Sequence and I'm wondering if the internal chronology is nailed down. I know Last First Snow is before Two Serpents Rise, Four Corners Cross is after Three Parts Dead, and Full Fathom Five is after Two Serpents, but it's not clear to me how the Alt Coulumb books relate to FFF or the Dresediel Lex books. I do believe they are in order of their number, chronology-wise. So, Last First Snow, Two Serpents Rise, Three Parts Dead, Four Roads Cross, and Full Fathom Five.
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Mar 18, 2017 19:49
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Grimson posted:I do believe they are in order of their number, chronology-wise. So, Last First Snow, Two Serpents Rise, Three Parts Dead, Four Roads Cross, and Full Fathom Five. This is correct (explicitly stated by Gladstone.)
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Mar 18, 2017 20:28
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The title for the next novel is "The Ruin of Angels", sadly, so it looks like that naming scheme must come to an end.
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Mar 18, 2017 20:44
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Khizan posted:The title for the next novel is "The Ruin of Angels", sadly, so it looks like that naming scheme must come to an end. https://www.goodreads.com/questions/986867-why-this-one-has-no-number-it-it-s-name
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Mar 18, 2017 20:50
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I picked up Seven Eves based on a goon recommendation and while I really enjoyed the first two parts of the book, part three is killing me. I have 150 pages to go and I may just give up and read the summary on Wilipedia
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Mar 18, 2017 20:54
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Professor Shark posted:I picked up Seven Eves based on a goon recommendation and while I really enjoyed the first two parts of the book, part three is killing me. I have 150 pages to go and I may just give up and read the summary on Wilipedia That was my issue too I had the audiobook and while the initial narrator wasnt so great they switched to another in part 3 and it was really jarring. Honestly I think Seveneves would have been better as two seperate books. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Mar 18, 2017 |
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Mar 18, 2017 22:02
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part three would have worked so much better as a separate book
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Mar 18, 2017 22:15
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Jack2142 posted:I mean multiple people in the thread have said they didn't care for the book series, thats fine Coyoe was lumping in some other things that I don't really think are actually true and I was disagreeing with that.
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Mar 18, 2017 22:39
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E: Disregard
orange sky fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 18, 2017 23:59
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Speaking of Obsidian, they seem like the best devs to make a fully fledged Asoiaf game. Too bad Obsidian have awful luck and never get contracted for any big games anymore.
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Mar 19, 2017 00:19
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Doorknob Slobber posted:part three would have worked so much better as a separate book I feels like a completely different book, I enjoyed his near future stuff but once he gets into 7000+ CE he goes nuts and you have talking Neanderthals, an increased obsession with his chain idea, and a 10 page description of some guy named Ty who he seems to be in love with I think it would have worked best if it had ended at Pt 2 and had an epilogue
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Mar 19, 2017 00:41
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coyo7e posted:So are we now in the place where "if you think it is true, then it is true"? Because it sounds like an opinion to me - quite possibly an ill-informed one. I'm not sure what you're getting at here - are you implying that your reasons for disliking the book are objectively correct? Because 'if you think it's true, then it's true, for you' is pretty accurate when it comes to Opinions About Books. I don't even like Black Company but it's a classic book series that was written in an experimental/unsual style that rubs a lot of people the wrong way, but I can see why it was influential and important enough to not just dismiss it as garbage.
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Mar 19, 2017 01:39
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Captain Monkey posted:I really enjoyed the Craft Sequence, I am really looking forward to more of them. Yeah, Magical Capitalist Lawyers is totally up my alley. 
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Mar 19, 2017 04:42
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Finished up The Wrong Dead Guy today (by Richard Kadrey, second book in the Coop series). It was pretty good. He writes comedic urban fantasy really well, considering the other series he's known for is the Sandman Slim series, which has some extremely dark humor. Pretty funny. Little weird, but pretty good. Worth a read if you like the first book. Didn't really flow as smoothly as his other stuff does, but still, made me laugh a few times. Gotta say, I did NOT see the ending coming the way it did.
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Mar 19, 2017 05:37
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Ulio posted:Speaking of Obsidian, they seem like the best devs to make a fully fledged Asoiaf game. Too bad Obsidian have awful luck and never get contracted for any big games anymore. Yeah, I would've thought KotOR, New Vegas and Stick of Truth would show 'Hey, we can take your IP and make it not poo poo!' but apparently not. Maybe it's because they still have a bit of a rep (deservedly or undeservedly) for making buggy half-finished games.
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Mar 19, 2017 06:29
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General Emergency posted:I'm really enjoying the new Powder Mage book Sins of Empire. It feels more focused than the previous trilogy. All set in around the same mystery and not hopping about so much. Yeah, I've started this myself recently and I'm really digging it so far. One of the areas that it's an improvement on the first trilogy for me is the characters, most of the ones that have been introduced at this point are very entertaining and interesting, makes it easy to get pulled right into the story.
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Mar 19, 2017 06:44
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Just wanted to drop in to report that I got River of Gods in the mail today and it's fantastic - a thick, information-dense writing style that's a treat to read. It's opened with murder and AI/ghost-busting and I couldn't be happier. Thanks to the thread for directing me to it!
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Mar 19, 2017 06:50
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Number Ten Cocks posted:I didn't say anything at all about telling some random guy anything. I was speaking about my hypothetical non-angry internal reactions to your hypothetical personal freak show walking by me on the street. Your original point was that feeling a difference of opinion is necessarily motivated by anger, which is a pretty weird thing to say! Shuuuuut. Uuuuuuuuup This is the worst argument. Argue about this instead: I like Honor Harrington and wish the books didn't keep getting worse.
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Mar 19, 2017 09:31
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Shuuuuut. Uuuuuuuuup Yeah s/he stopped even paying attention to what was being argued about in favor of his/her strawman so I gave up and moved on. I've never read Honor Harrington, how many are good?
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Mar 19, 2017 15:37
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Depends on your tolerance for space cattes and political discussion. I have stalled out on the 7th book of I think 10 or 11. The part I liked best was the space battles and she gets increasingly removed from them over time. Some people think she's a Mary Sue but I'm not sure I agree entirely with that. She suffers some pretty devastating setbacks. They're pretty much Horatio Hornblower in space.
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Mar 19, 2017 16:21
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Anybody have any thoughts on the current Women in SF/F Humble Bundle? I'm somewhat tempted just on the strength of the Octavia E Butler, but don't know much about the other authors.
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Mar 19, 2017 17:34
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Depends on your tolerance for space cattes and political discussion. I have stalled out on the 7th book of I think 10 or 11. The part I liked best was the space battles and she gets increasingly removed from them over time. Some people think she's a Mary Sue but I'm not sure I agree entirely with that. She suffers some pretty devastating setbacks. She's absolutely a Mary Sue. Sure, bad things happen to her, but but she's got so many "best there is at what she does" abilities she might as well be a superhero. She's the best tactical commander anywhere. She's supremely brave and inspiring. She's a master martial artist, gunfighter, and swordswoman, able to slaughter people who have trained all their lives in those areas despite spending most of her time you know, being a a naval officer. She's a peerless natural pilot. She's got a telempathic pet that she's mindlinked too who can tell if anyone else around her is lying or a threat. Most importantly, though, the worth of a human being in the Honorverse is directly proportional to how much they respect and/or adore Honor Harrington. Anyone who dislikes Honor for any reason is always and without fail a flawed human being. They are almost always cowardly, venal, or evil and usually all three. Her enemies can be divided into two camps. The first are the evil cowards who get in Honor's way. These people usually die weeping and/or pissing themselves when faced with Honor's righteous fury. The second are the noble redeemable folk who happen to be on the other side due to circumstances. They are usually regretful about having to fight her, know they're hosed and going to lose because she's Honor Harrington, but have a duty to perform and will try their best regardless. These types either die nobly against the irresistible force that is Honor Harrington, or they eventually switch sides and join her. The major character arc of one of the supporting characters is how he's a bad person for disliking Honor and how he grows as a person because eventually he comes to adore and worship her.  That's why Honor Harrington is a Mary Sue.  Good space battles though, at least until "ALL THE MISSILES" comes to dominate the tactics. Captain Monkey posted:I've never read Honor Harrington, how many are good? I'd say you could read through Book Six, Honor Among Enemies, and have a more or less story complete arc. You won't get the end of the actual war being fought, but it essentially covers Honor's rise, fall, and redemption. The battles haven't completely devolved into "she who has the most missiles* wins" that happens in the later books, plus books seven and eight don't actually have all that much space battle in them so there's not much reason to go there. That said, I'd like to throw a recommendation towards the secondary Honorverse stuff. The farther away from Honor yourself you get, the better off you are. So the Shadows series of books aren't bad, I like Flint's Crown of Slaves books in the Honorverse (though those are more action/adventure spy stories with little to no space battles), and frankly I think Zahn's Manticore Ascendant series is the best Honorverse stuff out there because it's set way in the past and is unburdened by any of the wacky bullshit that infects the current timeline. Also, as I like to mention every time the Honorverse comes up over in the Space Opera thread, if you just want decent space battles, I recommend Weber and White's Starfire universe, specifically the In Death Ground and The Shiva Option duology. The book immediately preceding that one, Crusade is pretty good too, but the other books in the series, Insurrection by Weber and White, and all the solo books by White are completely skippable. In Death Ground in particular is one of my favorite MilSF novels and makes me sad because it was published twenty years ago and it was all downhill for Weber ever since. * = This is always Honor Harrington and/or one of her friends.
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Mar 19, 2017 18:48
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I'm not sure I agree - her decisions result in some major strategic losses at a couple points and spoilering some bad stuff that you may want to find out by reading she gets pretty horrendously mutilated, her decision to shoot the guy that messed with her in university got her expelled from the senate or whatever for years. I agree with the comments about anyone who doesn't like her (almost) invariably turning out to be bad / wrong though, and I agree that it gets worse after around book 6. I haven't read the side stuff in the Honorverse so might check that out.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:51
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jng2058 posted:I think Zahn's Manticore Ascendant series is the best Honorverse stuff out there because it's set way in the past and is unburdened by any of the wacky bullshit that infects the current timeline. This is because they are standard issue Timothy Zahn SF and Zahn, while a bit formulaic, is a much better writer than Weber and he's infinitely less likely to crawl up his own rear end about missile swarms and the virtues of capitalism.
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Mar 19, 2017 20:01
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I had no idea Zahn had written stuff in the Honorverse. Going to need to check those out, I think.Professor Shark posted:I picked up Seven Eves based on a goon recommendation and while I really enjoyed the first two parts of the book, part three is killing me. I have 150 pages to go and I may just give up and read the summary on Wilipedia It's by Neal Stephenson so I'm not sure what you were expecting here. I've enjoyed several of his books but dude just cannot write an ending. darthbob88 posted:Anybody have any thoughts on the current Women in SF/F Humble Bundle? I'm somewhat tempted just on the strength of the Octavia E Butler, but don't know much about the other authors. I haven't read the Parable books yet, but I read Bloodchild and Xenogenesis this month and they were both excellent. I'm not familiar with most of the other authors; I read some Kurtz's books growing up (the Deryni trilogy and Camber of Culdi, which is a prequel IIRC) and thought they were ok but not great, but I might get more out of them now. Yolen I know only from Dragon's Blood, which is another book I liked a great deal back in the day but have no idea how it would hold up now. I picked it up just on the grounds that it gives me an excuse to throw more money at Open Road Media. Probably going to start with Skeen's Leap, we'll see how it goes. Kalenn Istarion posted:Depends on your tolerance for space cattes and political discussion. I have stalled out on the 7th book of I think 10 or 11. The part I liked best was the space battles and she gets increasingly removed from them over time. Some people think she's a Mary Sue but I'm not sure I agree entirely with that. She suffers some pretty devastating setbacks. I would say, start reading, but when you stop enjoying them stop reading, because it's not going to get any better. The early books are mostly about coming up with unconventional tactics to take on forces that significantly outgun her (and space combat damage control porn). Later books get more into wanking about how awesome feudal monarchies are, how having a social safety net is national suicide, and how unique and special Honor's relationship with her cat is, with the occasional space battle resolved by the Manticorans bringing 10x as many missiles as everyone else. I'm told that eventually the war with the PRH is resolved and they end up fighting the Solarian League instead, but I stopped before I got to that point; from what I've heard here and in the space opera thread it doesn't really improve matters.
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Mar 19, 2017 20:04
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