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Arist posted:Do you have any evidence of this There were rampant rumors in late 2015/early last year that Marvel was having trouble finding an IF pitch they were happy with, in large part because the character was a much less natural fit for a gritty, grounded, street-level tone than the other Marvel Netflix properties. We're never going to get definite confirmation of this, of course, but nothing I've seen in the first ten episodes has led me to believe otherwise. As for the timing part, Melissa Rosenberg (JJ showrunner) said in an interview that Marvel was contractually obligated to begin production on Defenders by a certain date, so I assume the same is true of the four shows preceding it.
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Mar 18, 2017 23:37
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Barry Convex posted:in large part because the character was a much less natural fit for a gritty, grounded, street-level tone than the other Marvel Netflix properties. No, see, I need actual evidence of this, because people love to assume stuff that just kind of sounds correct about these shows like the "too many episodes" thing but fail to provide any real evidence for.
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Mar 18, 2017 23:39
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Arist posted:No, see, I need actual evidence of this, because people love to assume stuff that just kind of sounds correct about these shows like the "too many episodes" thing but fail to provide any real evidence for. We're never going to get any hard evidence, because people on the creative level understandably tend to be reluctant to publicly badmouth the people who write their paychecks. The rumors came from enough sources that I believe there was something to them, though.
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Mar 18, 2017 23:42
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Just finished the first four episodes and I'm really disappointed with how the villains are being portrayed so far: With Fisk, Kilgrave, Cottonmouth, and Cottonmouth's sister, we get to see their climb to power both within the show and through some flashbacks. In Iron Fist, Joy/Ward are already billionaire Rand execs and their dad is already in bed with the Hand. Also I guess Madame Gao just took over The Hand off screen between DD S2 and...now? We're being told all these things that their dad is in debt to the Hand, that Madame Gao is the head of the Hand, etc... but we're not shown how any of that came to be. I would love to see a season long struggle of Madame Gao climbing the ranks of The Hand and uniting her Chinese gang with The Hand. Unfortunately I don't think I'm going to get that
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Mar 18, 2017 23:44
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Fun Note: Its a longstanding practice that Marvel doesn't send out sample scripts for auditioning actors. Instead, interested agents visit Marvel's Super Duper Secret Script Room where they are allowed to read the Sides and then later submit their best actors. A friend of mine worked in the industry and has some fun stories - its how I ended up reading the Black Lightning script a few weeks ago. (Short version: Its not great). Anyway, quite a few agents went to Marvel's Script Room, read the Iron Fist pilot, and.... went back to their stable of actors and told them all to stay away from this dumpster fire. I've watched every season of 24. I know bad TV. How do you cast an actor who clearly has no martial arts background? I'm watching Nikita right now, and to be fair the writing is basically jargon mixed with terrible platitudes, an inane cast, an anemic budget - but goddamn Maggie Q as the lead. Her experience shows in each and every episode. Same thing when Arrow cast Caity Lotz.
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Mar 18, 2017 23:47
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Why do Ward and Joy drive a loving Hyundai?
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Mar 18, 2017 23:50
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Also the production for this was majorly delayed and Marvel's been trying to do a Iron Fist movie for some years now.
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Mar 19, 2017 00:06
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Hollismason posted:Also the production for this was majorly delayed and Marvel's been trying to do a Iron Fist movie for some years now. Well, definitely not since they announced the series as part of the Netflix deal in November 2013, anyway.
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Mar 19, 2017 00:12
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It doesn't help that Finn Jones looks embarrassed to be in most scenes he is in.
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Mar 19, 2017 00:13
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Fargin Icehole posted:ehh, it's alright. Still engaged enough to watch it. On episode 5 or 6 by now. I'm starting episode 7 and I'm still engaged with it. It's not like the greatest show ever or anything but I'm making an enjoyable weekend cleaning and watching it.
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Mar 19, 2017 00:14
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I don't blame him. No amount of acting can fix a character with no clear motivation, "struggling" with a conflict which isn't explained to us and we have ni context for. Whose personality is wildly inconsistent and who also seems to be a moron. Who is Danny Rand? What does he want? Why does he want it? Like, he does stuff each episode, and his motivation for doing it is a complete loving mystery. You can't go off of the things he says. He constantly contradicts himself when other characters ask him things. If they weren't going to take the most basic steps in storytelling, they should have built the show around action sequences.
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Mar 19, 2017 00:18
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I just finished binging the show because I'm a terrible masochist and my hot take is that it was really bad. There was a thread throughout that Danny is seriously psychologically damaged from being a crash survivor turned into child soldier/superweapon, dealing with survivors guilt and also being abused by monks for years, but neither the actors nor the show are capable of actually doing anything with it. They touch on it again really briefly when Davos shows up and then they just get on with the hamfisted dialogue and plotlines some more. Oh well.
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Mar 19, 2017 00:23
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Snak posted:I don't blame him. No amount of acting can fix a character with no clear motivation, "struggling" with a conflict which isn't explained to us and we have ni context for. Whose personality is wildly inconsistent and who also seems to be a moron. I think this is my biggest problem with the show. Finn Jones isn't the best actor, but he really doesn't have much to work with. Danny is very much a reactionary character, with not much to react to. (season spoilers, I guess)There's no clear main antagonist for Danny to react against. Gao might have been interesting, but she got locked away so Bakuto could play badguy for a while. Harold doesn't really fit the bill either, until the very last episode. Danny just kind of lets situations find him, which makes for a really weak hero. I really would have preferred a show about Colleen. Her arc was a lot more interesting and the actress did a better job. edit: VVVI would love to see the Punisher tag along on Danny's escapades, just shooting people in the head left and right saying "shut the gently caress up" to all the bit characters that want to have their moments like the Drunken boxer dude. As Nero Danced fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 00:36
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Alright, I've been in the "it's tolerable, I guess" camp. Gotta say though, the back half of the series is hot garbage. Episode 8 was outright bad, and it never recovered from that. Some nice little moments here and there, and I actually liked the three Meachams both as characters and the actors who played them. I thought the show was going somewhere, but nope, just spinning its wheels through an absolute nothing plot. Danny Rand is a perpetually angry and unlikeable rear end in a top hat, who regularly needs women to step in and calm his spoilt brat rear end down. He never shuts the gently caress up about K'un-Lun or his monk training, yet we never get to see it. Bad and boring exposition instead of a training montage. Also his power is that he can do some kung-fu (in a world where pretty much everyone can fight, so whatevs) and every once in a while, if he's not feeling tired, he can do one or maybe two really strong magic punches. So he's not fun, clever, interesting, kind, heroic, and does nothing but wander from one shouting match to another. Those little flashes pf childlike goodness and naïveté like the stickers under the desk show the idealistic and goofy Danny Rand we coulda shoulda woulda had. I felt like I was watching the last few episodes just out of obligation, for the worldbuilding stuff for the MCU overall. Was just browsing Twitter and the forums as I did so, because while it wasn't ever so offensively bad I felt the need to stop watching, it wasn't good enough to fill my time by itself. Also, The Hand somehow went from being Japanese to Chinese or pan-Asian somewhere along the way? Hard not to see the issues people have with the cultural aspects when so much it just being thrown into the mix because ehhhh it's all Asian innit? Episode 8 was where it lost me though: Road trip to China, and suddenly The Hand's huge heroin operation is just one ramshackle shed in an abandoned industrial complex. And they just walk all the employees out for lunch, rather than having people working in shifts 24/7 to maximise production. And the unattended room full of hard drugs is guarded by one bloke with a sword (a loving sword, really?). I live in Hong Kong, and have communist China on my doorstep trying to quietly swallow up my city, and even I'm embarassed about how lovely and backwards it makes my neighbour to the north look, so culturally tonedeaf. Then the drunken master fight, an opponent you need to wake up before you can do some badly acted lines followed by some badly shot fighting. loving Punisher would have just walked up and shot this elite Hand warrior in the head while he slept. I mean seriously, Gao's heroin operation in New York in DD1 was exactly the right kind of creepy AF tone for supervillains. Blinded employees, brutally efficient production line that never sleeps, industrial scale evil. You can't then trade down to scruffy shed where all the workers head off for a nice group lunch. And they do this while Gao is visiting ffs. "How's production going?" "oh fine, fine, I just sent everyone off to the canteen, it's tacos today". Jesus, she stuck a knife through the head of a dude who fought incredibly hard on her behalf, but suddenly we're going to be super casual about we run a smack factory? And guards in America get guns, but China must have swords because... well, gotta have a highly improbable excuse for a sword fight over actual security I guess. And that was kind of the big villain arc anyway? That Madame Gao's branch of The Hand wants to sell a bunch of drugs? How very loving pedestrian. It was also at this episode I was sick of Danny just angrily strolling in everywhere looking for someone to punch, oh and please give me all your attention and pander to my feelings because my mummy and daddy died 15 years ago and I'm still loving sad about it. Later on they even offhandly mention one of Colleen's waifs and strays was orphaned in The Incident, and they don't even have a billion dollars to make them feel better about it. Danny gets pandered to so much, the "poor little rich boy" thing is just laughably bad. I'll give it this, at least Danny Rand isn't as openly fascistic as Oliver Queen, who returns home to a life of absolute luxury and who immediately decides what he really needs to do is start beating up poor people for fun. But boy, he's still not even close to being a hero at any point, even a flawed one.
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Mar 19, 2017 00:50
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4 episodes in and for a guy who spent all day e'ery day training to be a kung fu man Danny kinda sucks at fighting. The big fight in ep. 4 was decent but people jus constantly get the drop on him. And not even ninjas or anything, just ordinary thugs and mental patients. Edit: figured I'd also add, I'd agree that the show is not amazing so far but is also not some unmitigated disaster. Quiet Feet fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 01:03
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He gives Coleen poo poo for taking a hit in one of the early episodes and spends the rest of the season getting thrown around the screen
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Mar 19, 2017 01:04
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OK, I finished it and here's all I can remember Danny using the iron fist on: A strait jacket, two doors, a hatchet blade, a pair of brass knuckles, an elevator cable, healing Colleen, a pair of handcuffs, a light switch, a window (debatably some poor guy on the other side of it, but it looked like a kick to me), blocking a bullet and firing up a nightlight when he was bored. Didn't really use it to any effect in a fight. He sure put that super power to good use. It wasn't as aggressively bad as the last half of Luke Cage was, but it was very underwhelming. I don't hate it, but I hate the potential it squandered.
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Mar 19, 2017 01:38
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I think what I find most dumb out of a lot of dumb thing is Ward & Joy's status. Episode 1-10 spoilers: Like these are the thriftiest billionaires in existence. Especially Ward who seems to be all about power and money and... he never loving flaunts or uses it. Dude's addicted to pain killers but can genuinely only get them through a doctor? Motherfucker, I know people with way less means than you that can get their hands on drugs without needing to break their own god damned hand. And some of the dirty work he has to go for Harold, that i get. But where the gently caress is the muscle he had the first few episodes? How does he have no friends or help? Like these two idiots are running a giant mega corporation by themselves sharing only one assistant and no other support? Episode 11 scene: Can we talk somewhere private? *goes to the other side of the desk they're standing on* This loving show. Happy Noodle Boy fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 02:00
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Episode 11 scene: I laughed so hard at that scene I had to pause it. How did they shoot that and not feel extremely ridiculous
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Mar 19, 2017 02:29
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It really felt like they wanted to get their money's worth out of the backdrops. I have to admit, they were some good new york backdrops.
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Mar 19, 2017 03:02
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I am not an expert on business but wouldn't you not be able to oust someone who controls a majority share in the companies stocks? I mean this is comic book tv land so maybe it works differently than the real world
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Mar 19, 2017 03:29
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End of episode 12: she loving blocked a sword with her god damned arm and she's just loving fine the next day?
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Mar 19, 2017 03:45
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Can we rename the thread "You are the Worst Iron Fist Ever" ?
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Mar 19, 2017 03:54
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geeves posted:Can we rename the thread "You are the Worst Iron Fist Ever" ? Davos is the hero we need, Danny is the hero we deserve.
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Mar 19, 2017 04:12
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I really wish Stick had shown up to call Danny a spoiled brat.
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Mar 19, 2017 04:19
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Lmao Claire takes out more gun wielding goons with her loving wolverine claws than the iron fist.
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Mar 19, 2017 04:21
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Just finished it. This was really, really bad. Like I actually kinda liked the story? It took Joy and Ward all over the god damned place and they went from good to bad to good to bad to bad to good to I don't even have the ability to keep up but it had a perverse flow to it that made sense? Claire and Hogarth were good. Harold played the part well enough and him become more deranged and literally immortal was actually pretty cool. I was shocked when he came back from getting stabbed. But my loving god did they butchered Danny. And I'm not saying this as a comic book fan because I know little to nothing of Iron Fist. But as a character that was literally trained for a decade and a half to be a weapon... he loving SUCKS at fighting. Like, half of the people he fights he should be crushing Bruce Lee style. There was so little Kung fu / martial arts. Everything was a brawl and punching with some fancy kicks thrown here and there. Like it genuinely loving kills me that I can't think of a single good fight in the entire season. And that alone makes this show a loving failure. Maybe Danny will have some good chemistry and somehow work well when paired with the Defenders but right now I'm thinking he's just going to bring poo poo down. And that final shot. What the gently caress kinda vacation in Denver gear to climb into the loving Himalayas was that? Are you loving kidding me? They didn't even look cold? Is there a road and a motel six 20 minutes from the mystical gate to heaven? gently caress I haven't been this angry at a show wasting potential since Dexter and I now understand why.
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Mar 19, 2017 04:49
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Whenever I see Iron Fist fight I just picture Will Ferrell in Get Hard doing capoeira and start giggling like a schoolgirl.
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Mar 19, 2017 04:54
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E13 spoiler: lol, they actually put the big, climactic Iron Fist FX shot in the loving trailer
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Mar 19, 2017 04:57
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I turn to a random episode of Law and Order and who do I see? Madam Gao!
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Mar 19, 2017 05:09
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Why was Bakuto trying to sound like Derek Zoolander?
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Mar 19, 2017 05:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq6TlH7ABkc
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Mar 19, 2017 05:11
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geeves posted:Can we rename the thread "You are the Worst Iron Fist Ever" ?
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Mar 19, 2017 05:14
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twistedmentat posted:I am not an expert on business but wouldn't you not be able to oust someone who controls a majority share in the companies stocks? I mean this is comic book tv land so maybe it works differently than the real world The script writers have no idea how public companies actually work. 
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Mar 19, 2017 05:33
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Out of context, Danny screaming at Colleen about whether she cared about him before or after the fist is pretty funny. It's actually pretty funny with context too. Hope Luke breaks up with Claire. Like him and Jessica together better. Gaunab fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 05:49
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Woden posted:Why was Bakuto trying to sound like Derek Zoolander? I laughed so hard at that.
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Mar 19, 2017 05:49
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Daredevil is a better Iron Fist than Danny, and he doesn't even know what the Iron Fist is. Seriously, everything Danny does, Matt does better, even moping. The funny thing is, Daredevil on paper should be the least capable member of the upcoming defenders. Even ignoring that he's blind, Matt is a normal person that's just trained to the limit. Danny has had just as much if not even more training than Matt (plus a magical glowy hand that works whenever he remembers he can do it), but seems to have an even harder time with random mooks. Pretty much all of his fights involve him getting his rear end handed to him, then him getting a lucky punch or kick in.
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Mar 19, 2017 06:31
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I really liked the series. It had some weak points, and the majority of the fight scenes were underwhelming for what this should have had, but I really liked Danny and Colleen. Danny was a well-meaning dummy, but that was refreshing to see someone actually want to do good even if they're really bad about how they do it. I think he plays a guy still dealing with trauma and who didn't grow up normally very well. Colleen is great all around, and their romance was the best done of any of the Netflix series so far. They did add in a lot of fanservice, but came short of really showing any mystical stuff. Hopefully they'll allow the next series to go more into that. Really, I think so long as the second season adds in better fight scenes and allows the mystical stuff more screentime, they can fix most of the problems from this season.
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Mar 19, 2017 06:51
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I'm on episode 12 and it still has my interest. I agree that Finn Jones needs to work on his kung-fu. It's funny because like Dr. Strange, Iron Fist is another Marvel property that suffers from having Batman Begins borrow from its origins. Anyways the point of this post was that I hope Colleen and Misty form Daughters of the Dragon during Defenders and that they have a funny rivalry with Jessica Jones in her 2nd season.
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Mar 19, 2017 07:16
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Gaunab posted:I'm on episode 12 and it still has my interest. I agree that Finn Jones needs to work on his kung-fu. It's funny because like Dr. Strange, Iron Fist is another Marvel property that suffers from having Batman Begins borrow from its origins. Have Foggy tag along as their legal counsel, trying to keep them from getting arrested and badly trying to flirt with them and I'd be onboard.
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Mar 19, 2017 07:23
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