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Tenebrais posted:Worth noting that even in that video a Pharah was about to come in to land on the point. The Pharah booped the red team junkrat off the point, which is what allowed the backcap. So it wasn't even Sombra that got the cap, it was Pharah.
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Mar 19, 2017 14:44
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| # ? May 22, 2024 09:26 |
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Backcapping is a proud TF2 tradition, and Scout and Spy each shed a single tear of pride when they saw their legacy continued.
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Mar 19, 2017 15:45
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Bolivar posted:At lower ranks you could probably do it with an "ambitious" Zenyatta. I've capped a point by just floating to it as Zen in plat
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Mar 19, 2017 17:08
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Zenyatta is the true master of stealth.
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Mar 19, 2017 17:24
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Zenyatta is the true master of stealth. Zenyatta is the best flanker, because he makes no sound when he moves. 
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Mar 19, 2017 18:23
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Bastion is the worst, god drat
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Mar 19, 2017 19:26
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IronicDongz posted:that's not the whole thing though, one team got smoked so hard they didn't get any percentage at all This is a little too extreme. 1 pip on the point would make more sense than literally just touching it.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:31
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Why? The enemy team failed to touch it at all, it makes sense that they should lose if the other team does.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:33
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Why? Death to draws.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:34
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IronicDongz posted:Why? The enemy team failed to touch it at all, it makes sense that they should lose if the other team does. Because it's incredibly exploitable, as shown in that Sombra clip. One team gets to put up a solid defense while the other, because they were stomped at a choke, have to play out of position and babysit the point to keep 1 flanker from literally touching it once. It's like introducing an extra rule for one team.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:36
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But if the other, while they were getting stomped at a choke, had a flanker like that Sombra, a Pharah, genji tracer etc. go touch the point it'd have the same effect. Both teams are able to win through a small amount of cap, it's not something that just applies to one.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:40
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Winning in a point capture game should involve holding on the point for at least a little while, regardless of the other team's performance. It allows a window for counterplay. Making it require 1/3 of the capture wouldn't suddenly bring back 40 minute draws.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:43
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Dyz posted:regardless of the other team's performance.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:53
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IronicDongz posted:But if the other, while they were getting stomped at a choke, had a flanker like that Sombra, a Pharah, genji tracer etc. go touch the point it'd have the same effect. Both teams are able to win through a small amount of cap, it's not something that just applies to one. But this is sub-optimal play in the first round of the game, for the first attacking team. It's not a good thing for a flanker to just touch the point once, completely disregarding the rest of the team fights. The team that has someone do that isn't necessarily the better team, or played better, or deserving of the win. Doing it just as a 'just in case your team can't make it to the point' doesn't make sense from a gameplay perspective, only as a gaming the rules-as-written. TheMaskedUgly fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 19:58
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Dyz posted:Because it's incredibly exploitable, as shown in that Sombra clip. It's not "exploitable" to win because you did better than the other guy, which is exactly what that single touch measures.
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Mar 19, 2017 20:08
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It doesn't make sense as something to do at the start of the first round, but it does make sense as a hail mary when there's 20 seconds on the clock and your team hasn't even reached the point yet. For some reason I am finding it hard to dislike this change when the criticisms are "but then people would have to play on the objective!". If anything this is just highlighting how poo poo the maps are when it comes to capture point A. Where the point itself is mostly indefensible, so the defending instead happens at a narrow chokepoint with no flank routes.
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Mar 19, 2017 20:09
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TheMaskedUgly posted:Doing it just as a 'just in case your team can't make it to the point' doesn't make sense from a gameplay perspective, only as a gaming the rules-as-written.
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Mar 19, 2017 20:12
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TheMaskedUgly posted:But this is sub-optimal play in the first round of the game, for the first attacking team. It's not a good thing for a flanker to just touch the point once, completely disregarding the rest of the team fights. The team that has someone do that isn't necessarily the better team, or played better, or deserving of the win. Doing it just as a 'just in case your team can't make it to the point' doesn't make sense from a gameplay perspective, only as a gaming the rules-as-written.
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Mar 19, 2017 20:12
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Nihilarian posted:I don't think I've ever captured Eichenwalde point A without playing a character that can bypass the choke bullshit and going straight to point anyway. There is also this. Starting a capture to split the enemy team's attention so that your team can rush the choke 5v4 or better is already a very common strategy.
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Mar 19, 2017 20:16
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Dyz posted:Because it's incredibly exploitable, as shown in that Sombra clip. if you literally never touched the control point once for the entire round, you've earned your much harder defense round. that's not exploiting anything. the other team left one guy on the point in spite of the loss condition (which, to be fair, they probably didn't understand at the time since it's new). they lost because they didn't play the objective; the sombra didn't exploit anything but the other team's incompetence
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Mar 19, 2017 20:25
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Manatee Cannon posted:if you literally never touched the control point once for the entire round, you've earned your much harder defense round. that's not exploiting anything. the other team left one guy on the point in spite of the loss condition (which, to be fair, they probably didn't understand at the time since it's new). they lost because they didn't play the objective; the sombra didn't exploit anything but the other team's incompetence
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Mar 19, 2017 20:57
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innovative new overwatch strategy tech (exploit???): touching the objective helps you win the game
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Mar 19, 2017 21:05
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Jeza posted:Got an Ana PotG I wish I could get more of these, I have the Sleep highlight animation and the creepy New Year costume!
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Mar 19, 2017 21:23
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It's a little silly that losing badly enough means that you now have to play by a slightly different and harder set of rules than your opponent got. It's still better than endless draws.
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Mar 19, 2017 21:57
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The rules are the same. Your opponents must have been shutting out the point just as much.
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Mar 19, 2017 22:02
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:There is also this. Starting a capture to split the enemy team's attention so that your team can rush the choke 5v4 or better is already a very common strategy. I still laugh when people complain about Eichenwalde A. Sure only a couple classes can bypass the chokepoint, but it's not like people can ban those classes for the match.
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Mar 19, 2017 22:02
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I had a busy weekend and just saw the Lucio changes... well the direct port of him from Heroes of the Storm. Which I'm cool with since I have an 80% win rate with him in it. 
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Mar 19, 2017 23:25
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Had a great 3v1 elimination where I beat a Reinhardt, dva and roadhog as tracer with two sticky bombs and killing roadhog during his ultimate in the last 0.0 seconds
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Mar 20, 2017 00:44
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I'm excited for the first 72 hours of comp being entirely decided by silver players not knowing how these changes work lol
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Mar 20, 2017 01:46
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Lucio looks fun, i'll be honest with the sheer amount of games that have come out in the last 3 months, overwatch has been my last priority. I might switch to pc soon. but eh, I don't take the game seriously enough to care to do that. I also wanna see how orisa plays, so that should be cool.
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Mar 20, 2017 01:59
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Part of me really likes the wall riding change but I prefer to speed boost/heal my team. The aura sizes before let me kinda scoot away from my team for a moment to try and boop people off the map or speed boost respawning teammates back to the choke/point while still healing which isn't something I'll be able to do anymore. I have a feeling we're gonna see a lot of poo poo Lucio players bouncing all over the walls trying to 1v1 Tracers or whatever on the other half of the map while your team gets stomped.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:02
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Fabricated posted:Part of me really likes the wall riding change but I prefer to speed boost/heal my team. The aura sizes before let me kinda scoot away from my team for a moment to try and boop people off the map or speed boost respawning teammates back to the choke/point while still healing which isn't something I'll be able to do anymore. If a lovely lucio player was all that was keeping them alive it likely wasn't gonna turn out well either way.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:04
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Manatee Cannon posted:if you literally never touched the control point once for the entire round, you've earned your much harder defense round. that's not exploiting anything. the other team left one guy on the point in spite of the loss condition (which, to be fair, they probably didn't understand at the time since it's new). they lost because they didn't play the objective; the sombra didn't exploit anything but the other team's incompetence If the winning team did so well on defense that the opposing team didn't touch the point, they probably don't need a mechanic that lets them win in less than 30 seconds without fighting. You seem to be so hung up on who "earned" what you're forgetting about how it affects gameplay. Making it require 1 pip gives the defenders a bigger window for counterplay instead of babysitting the point all game long. Hell, it gives them an actual window for counterplay instead of what is essentially an automatic loss. The game will play out normally instead of becoming a game of flankers trying to tag the point.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:43
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Dyz posted:Making it require 1 pip gives the defenders a bigger window for counterplay instead of babysitting the point all game long. Hell, it gives them an actual window for counterplay instead of what is essentially an automatic loss. It's not actually an automatic loss though, the chance for counterplay is still there, and if anyone seems hung up on this it's the people freaking out about Sombras instantly backcapping in a circumstance that's far less likely than the actual happens-all-the-time scenario of 2CP maps having to be played out four times in a row because it's a lovely gamemode that requires attackers to plow through an obnoxious all-or-nothing meatgrinder to take point B if they don't immediately snowball from the start.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:54
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Dyz posted:If the winning team did so well on defense that the opposing team didn't touch the point, they probably don't need a mechanic that lets them win in less than 30 seconds without fighting. You seem to be so hung up on who "earned" what you're forgetting about how it affects gameplay. it affects the gameplay by saving me from playing more hanamura, so it's an objectively good change
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Mar 20, 2017 02:55
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If it's so impossible to stop someone touching the point for a whole round then this problem shouldn't occur too often since the first team will also get some time. People will have to shift their playstyles to account for the fact that points are no longer so all or nothing, but I think that's a good thing. It discourages endless spam battles over the chokepoint and encourages players to hold or make moves on the point.
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Mar 20, 2017 03:04
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The team the outperforms the other team is the better team and should win. How bad at games do you have to be to want a hard coded equalizer that allows inferior teams to force a draw due to an arbitrary lack of measurement? The new system seems like the perfect solution to many Control Point draw scenarios, outside of both teams successfully attacking, obviously. It's also literally already in the game for payload maps. It's been there for a long time now. Were people crying about how the second attackers didn't have to push the payload as far if the first attackers sucked too?
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Mar 20, 2017 03:08
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Chillhards went on a tear today, I think one of our guys gained 500 SR in one evening. We started out with me slumming it at the upper bound of plat and most of the team in gold and by the end I'd broken a new career high, Sadbot was like 15 MMR from diamond, a bunch of people hit plat and the game was matching us against teams with 4+ Diamond players.  I'm on my way to bed for now but I'll post some videos of it later.
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Mar 20, 2017 05:22
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Chillhards went on a tear today, I think one of our guys gained 500 SR in one evening. We started out with me slumming it at the upper bound of plat and most of the team in gold and by the end I'd broken a new career high, Sadbot was like 15 MMR from diamond, a bunch of people hit plat and the game was matching us against teams with 4+ Diamond players. Must be a full moon tonight because I also had a really good night, going from 1980 to 2272 over the course of an 8 game win streak. I can see plat!!
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Mar 20, 2017 06:40
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| # ? May 22, 2024 09:26 |
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Chillhards went on a tear today, I think one of our guys gained 500 SR in one evening. We started out with me slumming it at the upper bound of plat and most of the team in gold and by the end I'd broken a new career high, Sadbot was like 15 MMR from diamond, a bunch of people hit plat and the game was matching us against teams with 4+ Diamond players. At some point I should dust back off and dig into comp again, I've heard good things about the chillhard crew so thanks for reminding me about that.
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Mar 20, 2017 06:56
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