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IronicDongz posted:it does matter because it makes the god feel worse to play. you spend all game walking back and forth in front of enemies because of the disproportionate power of whirlwind when it has slow, and it makes something that would create room for interesting positioning and makes it into a better but slower-irl tab. "Feels worse" according to who? According to you and the ##crawl hivemind, I guess? Personally I rather enjoyed dancing around enemies, especially given that doing so incentivized me to fight in the open rather than luring everything into a corridor, and it didn't slow down my game one bit. My winning Wu Jian realtime was in line with my realtime for most casual games, actually on the quicker side. It's certainly not a god I'd pick for a speedrun, but then again I wouldn't pick anything but Trog for that.
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Mar 20, 2017 00:09
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dpeg posted:Alright, I'm done here too. D-d-d-d-disagreement!? With my PERFECT changes?!??!!! You sniveling asshats should talk to dpeg with respect! Things like someone saying 'oh man I'm sad this changed' or 'please don't keep removing everything, please' are WAY TOO HARSH for these grown adults to take on this comedy website! dpeg, maybe chill out a little bit dude. People don't like some changes that were made, they jokingly posted about it on a comedy forum that you also are a member of (and therefore should probably 'get' at least a little bit.) If your goal is to make a game that people like, this sort of feedback is useful. If your goal is to make a game that is 'balanced' then keep on keeping on man, you're doing great. But being a jerk to people because they have an opinion on a thing you have worked on is pretty lame.
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Mar 20, 2017 00:11
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Actually I just double-checked and my Wu Jian game was my fastest non-speedrun realtime win. Keep on believing whatever you want though.
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Mar 20, 2017 00:13
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Remember that melee having any decision-making beyond O or Tab goes against ~design goals~
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Mar 20, 2017 00:15
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lol if you're judging the entire forum based on gimmick whineposter Darth Windu. I think it's insanely obvious that removing slow breaks the entire point of lunge; it was the first comment I made when I was talking about the WJC changes with haifisch. It's a bad change that completely shifts the point of the god in an unfun way, even more than the walljump change (which could be okay, if a lot less fun/useful than it used to be).
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Mar 20, 2017 00:37
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You'd think the god was dragged behind the shed and shot or something, but it just lost the slow on whirlwind and jump isn't a get out of combat free button. Whirlwind is still optimal whenever you're facing two or more targets and for repositioning. I wish jump had a little more flexibility but it's hard to come up with a different solution that solves its problems. The only thing I'd want from WJC at this point is more incentives to fight multiple enemies at once outside of HoE. The movement abilities shine brightest when you are facing a pack of enemies, in those cases you actually have to make decisions about how to move to optimise your attacks and avoid being pinned in instead of just whirlwinding in place. You can hit multiple enemies with those abilities but you get torn apart by attacks so it's still optimal to lure away and fight 1v1. Some kind of stacking defensive buffs from using martial abilities on multiple enemies would be nice. SteelNeuron posted:Not in the current form. The wall jump change is something I could potentially get behind, or at least try to work with, but the major mistake is removing the dependency between whirlwind and lunge. I insist that changing whirlwind the way MPA has changed it breaks lunge. Until that's addressed, lunge will flicker between being abusable and completely worthless, and no damage bonus tweaking will change that. A double whammy is the fact that these two major, sweeping changes have been implemented at once, I think it shows a fundamental lack of confidence in the design. Trying one separate from the other would have made more sense, but we are suddenly rushing. I've always been curious about your perception of lunge and its importance. In my mind, lunge is good for A: preventing ranged/polearm users from getting a free shot while you close in, B: improving stabbing by reducing the actions needed to reach a target, and C: improve and increase your opportunities for extra hits while fighting crowds and giving you more flexibility of movement, especially during HoE. The special damage multipliers on lunge felt tedious to exploit, given distract typically doesn't last long enough to actually use and slow requires being in melee range (and therefore being too close to lunge, so you would need to kite).
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Mar 20, 2017 00:44
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Thug Lessons posted:"Feels worse" according to who? According to you Devlan Mud posted:Remember that melee having any decision-making beyond O or Tab goes against ~design goals~
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Mar 20, 2017 00:49
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I came back to crawl for a bit when wu jian got weaponless, because I like TrMo. I got a few runes, too. I'm putting crawl down again for a while. Losing walljump makes my playstyle not work.
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Mar 20, 2017 00:54
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IronicDongz posted:Yes, of course. I'm presenting my own opinion rather than someone else's because that's how discussion works Oh, so it's just your opinion. You personally didn't like it. Why not just say that? That way everyone can know all that's going on here is that some guy doesn't like it, rather than dealing with the pretense that there's actual reasons. quote:using whirlwind isn't a decision, it's something you do in virtually all fights when it slows. The decision making process is "Am I fighting something with room to whirlwind?" Yes->Whirlwind, No->move somewhere where I can whirlwind No, not really. You still have to consider whether you're willing to take multiple hits from opponents. It wasn't so powerful that it overrode literally everything else in the game.
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Mar 20, 2017 01:09
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Very few monsters attack fast enough that 0.3 auts will mean a difference in attacks taken per action, most of them take at least 1.0 auts to swing. Unless you are a Naga whirlwind has no real trade off at all, and even then it's still superior. If you could whirlwind, you should have been whirlwinding.
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Mar 20, 2017 01:17
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Darox posted:Very few monsters attack fast enough that 0.3 auts will mean a difference in attacks taken per action, most of them take at least 1.0 auts to swing. Unless you are a Naga whirlwind has no real trade off at all, and even then it's still superior. If you could whirlwind, you should have been whirlwinding. I meant that other monsters can attack you, (including with ranged attacks/melee attacks that you can't reciprocate because they're moving faster than you). There's also the fact that you can attack faster yourself. You will still want to corridor-fight in some circumstances. I wouldn't whirlwind a pack a caustic shrikes.
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Mar 20, 2017 01:22
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Thug Lessons posted:Oh, so it's just your opinion. You personally didn't like it. Why not just say that? That way everyone can know all that's going on here is that some guy doesn't like it, rather than dealing with the pretense that there's actual reasons. At any rate, I already gave my reasons anyways! Thug Lessons posted:No, not really. You still have to consider whether you're willing to take multiple hits from opponents. It wasn't so powerful that it overrode literally everything else in the game. Thug Lessons posted:I meant that other monsters can attack you, (including with ranged attacks/melee attacks that you can't reciprocate because they're moving faster than you). There's also the fact that you can attack faster yourself. You will still want to corridor-fight in some circumstances. I wouldn't whirlwind a pack a caustic shrikes. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 01:24
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So you guys actually think it's better to fight in the wide open, in practically every circumstance regardless of the number and type of enemies, as long there's a chance to get a slow on an opponent? That's a view, I guess.
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Mar 20, 2017 01:30
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Darox posted:Very few monsters attack fast enough that 0.3 auts will mean a difference in attacks taken per action, most of them take at least 1.0 auts to swing. Unless you are a Naga whirlwind has no real trade off at all, and even then it's still superior. If you could whirlwind, you should have been whirlwinding. Yes. That's the point. Your whirlwinds are better than regular attacks. Sometimes it's better to take the risk whirlwinding in the open when there are multiple enemies. Sometimes it's better to take them one by one in a corridor. Regular attacking is something you do if you're stuck. If you tab one enemy with Wu Jian you screwed up, and that's a good thing. Whirlwind wasn't a tradeoff with tabbing, it was a tradeoff with worshipping Trog and luring every enemy to a corridor.
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Mar 20, 2017 01:32
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Thug Lessons posted:"Feels worse" according to who? According to you and the ##crawl hivemind, I guess? Personally I rather enjoyed dancing around enemies, especially given that doing so incentivized me to fight in the open rather than luring everything into a corridor, and it didn't slow down my game one bit. My winning Wu Jian realtime was in line with my realtime for most casual games, actually on the quicker side. It's certainly not a god I'd pick for a speedrun, but then again I wouldn't pick anything but Trog for that. I agree that making adadadadadadad more ~~~~optimal~~~~ than tab against a single enemy because of the slows is lovely game design. Like, imagine if tab did less damage than manually moving into the enemy.
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Mar 20, 2017 01:37
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Darox posted:You'd think the god was dragged behind the shed and shot or something, but it just lost the slow on whirlwind and jump isn't a get out of combat free button. Whirlwind is still optimal whenever you're facing two or more targets and for repositioning. I wish jump had a little more flexibility but it's hard to come up with a different solution that solves its problems. Statements like "Whirlwind is still optimal whenever you're facing two or more targets" and the commit removing slow ("To make it no longer always superior to standard attacks.") are simply not true, unless we have different definitions of optimal and superior. I will agree that whirlwind is better *most* of the time, but definitely not always. Let's think about this for a moment: whirlwind is an attack that occurs while you move. What if the current combat situation is one where you *don't* want to move? For example you have an enemy in front of you that you need to kill, but that enemy is also blocking LOS to a potentially dangerous enemy, say a shining eye. You can whirlwind by stepping around the enemy in front of you but it'll allow the shining eye to cast malmutate. On the other hand you could tab the enemy down while the shining eye moves closer, and once the shining eye is in melee range you can serpent's lash or just tab the shining eye as well, but at least you significantly reduced the chances to get zapped. You don't always want to re-position for purposes of getting whirlwind to proc because it could be actively detrimental despite the chances of slowing. You could also be using a polearm and use reaching behind a summon or even past another enemy because there's a higher priority target behind that enemy. The wall jump thing is a hard problem to solve given the restrictions, but I think the change was a bit too knee-jerky and there could have been more feedback on the subject before deciding it's best to take the god in the exact opposite direction the creator intended.
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Mar 20, 2017 01:38
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Thug Lessons posted:So you guys actually think it's better to fight in the wide open, in practically every circumstance regardless of the number and type of enemies, as long there's a chance to get a slow on an opponent? That's a view, I guess. I can say with no doubt in my mind that my wu jian win, just about every enemy that was remotely threatening I used whirlwind against for the slow, and I got quite sick of it.
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Mar 20, 2017 01:40
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IronicDongz posted:I can say with no doubt in my mind that my wu jian win, just about every enemy that was remotely threatening I used whirlwind against for the slow, and I got quite sick of it. Hahahahahahahaha How The gently caress Is This Real Hahahaha Nigga Just pick Trog and push Tab Like Nigga Close Your Eyes and Summon a Stone Giant Haha
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Mar 20, 2017 01:45
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Thug Lessons posted:So you guys actually think it's better to fight in the wide open, in practically every circumstance regardless of the number and type of enemies, as long there's a chance to get a slow on an opponent? That's a view, I guess. Mr. Prokosch posted:Yes. That's the point. Your whirlwinds are better than regular attacks. Sometimes it's better to take the risk whirlwinding in the open when there are multiple enemies. Sometimes it's better to take them one by one in a corridor. Regular attacking is something you do if you're stuck. If you tab one enemy with Wu Jian you screwed up, and that's a good thing. apple posted:Statements like "Whirlwind is still optimal whenever you're facing two or more targets" and the commit removing slow ("To make it no longer always superior to standard attacks.") are simply not true, unless we have different definitions of optimal and superior. I will agree that whirlwind is better *most* of the time, but definitely not always. Darox fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 01:49
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vOv posted:I agree that making adadadadadadad more ~~~~optimal~~~~ than tab against a single enemy because of the slows is lovely game design. Like, imagine if tab did less damage than manually moving into the enemy. You don't often fight single enemies though, and more importantly, those fights with single enemies are almost never a threat. The actually threatening fights involve multiple enemies with a variety of abilities, which is why "pulling", corridor-fighting and murder-holes are so effective. "Do I fight in the open and risk significant danger to use my ability or pull my enemies into a corridor and play it safe" is a perfectly legitimate choice, especially given that a ton of people will tell you, absent Wu Jian, that you should always fight in corridors regardless of circumstances.
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Mar 20, 2017 01:51
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Darox posted:Just because you are in the 'open' (a three tile area) doesn't mean you are fighting multiple enemies. Hydras, Ogres/Giants, Thorn Hunters, Dragons, there are so many potentially dangerous enemies that spawn individually. And of course there's always luring. This is a very different argument from the one you and that other dude were advancing before. Yes, obviously if you're fighting a lone dangerous enemy it's always optimal to Wu Jian dance. That's an entirely different thing from dancing being the optimal tactic in all scenarios. Also in practice the mass fights are much more threatening than the individual dangerous enemies once you get past a certain point, (a few baddies like thorn hunters, juggernauts, and unique excepted), and also much rarer unless you practice a fairly mind-numbing practice of obsessive pulling. Thug Lessons fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 01:56
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Hahahahahahahaha How The gently caress Is This Real Hahahaha Nigga Just pick Trog and push Tab Like Nigga Close Your Eyes and Summon a Stone Giant Haha Thug Lessons posted:"Do I fight in the open and risk significant danger to use my ability or pull my enemies into a corridor and play it safe" is a perfectly legitimate choice, especially given that a ton of people will tell you, absent Wu Jian, that you should always fight in corridors regardless of circumstances. code:
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Mar 20, 2017 01:59
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IronicDongz posted:Thing is, it's very common that using whirlwind is the more safe choice. Yes, it is very common that using whirlwind is the more safe choice. If you hadn't said it practically always the best choice, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:03
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I don't think either of us were saying a WJC should never use tab. I'm saying that whenever you have the option between the two, the choice is overwhelmingly weighted towards whirlwind.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:06
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Darox posted:I don't think this is a good example because when a weak enemy is shielding you from a dangerous ranged one the optimal solution is to not attack at all. Whirlwind is optimal when you are forced to fight two enemies at once because you can hit both of them at the same time, doubling your damage output. This doesn't only apply to weak enemies, though. This shining eye scenario comes up fairly often and it's perfectly fine to "shield" youself with something semi-dangerous if you know you can tab it simply because a semi-dangerous enemy alone is better than semi-dangerous enemy + malmutate zaps. Of course it's hard to be strictly optimal in these cases; ideally your killing blow on the shield guy also hits the shining eye, there's many ways you could go about this including but not limited to WJC abilities.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:08
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All the discussion of current development is rather academic considering the game should be thought of as complete since this commit: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commit;h=53e375c1a816dc6e779f02910931af93c808f1f1
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Mar 20, 2017 02:11
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Should this be encouraged over just tabbing the enemy? I did this because it was better than tabbing (due to the slow proc), but still safer than fighting in actual open space:code:Fake Edit: Already beaten by IronicDongz, but I'm posting anyway.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:11
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Darox posted:I don't think either of us were saying a WJC should never use tab. I'm saying that whenever you have the option between the two, the choice is overwhelmingly weighted towards whirlwind. That's not a very meaningful statement. Yes, obviously if there are no drawbacks between tab and whirlwind you should whirlwind. I don't consider that a problem in and of itself given that a) that in most dangerous situations there are drawbacks, and b) the assumption that tapping movement keys is harder than tapping tab is wrong and frankly laughable.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:12
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Floodkiller posted:Should this be encouraged over just tabbing the enemy? Should tabbing be encouraged over doing that? I question that assumption. They're functionally the same except "doing that" probably leads to less repetitive stress injuries.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:16
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Thug Lessons posted:the assumption that tapping movement keys is harder than tapping tab is wrong and frankly laughable. adadadadadadadadadada
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Mar 20, 2017 02:16
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IronicDongz posted:It's not "harder", it's annoying to do a repetitive action a lot over the course of a game like crawl which is really fuckin long It's not any less repetitive than pressing tab over and over though? I'd argue it's less repetitive, at least I'm using different fingers and frankly it's easier to reach.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:18
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I played a Wu Jian character the other day and I did not understand what I was supposed to be doing but I just walked around giant groups of enemies in big circles like a huge retard and everything died, including me. It seemed like a good god for the visually impaired, or people who find Trog too cerebral. Instead of nerfing this god I believe it should actually be made slightly more powerful, but altars to the god should only be allowed to spawn in the Hall of Blades (25% chance). Powerful, but rare. My reasoning is that this decision would make everybody unhappy, and I like it when other people are unhappy. Speaking of New Gods, a page ago someone was talking about DsVM, and I have also been playing DsVM lately. Forum's poster iloveu suggested that my DsVM should worship the worst god in the game, Ashenzari, a god with which I have never won. Below are some of my thoughts on Ashenzari.pre:Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-901-g27f6fa8 (console) character file. 15522421 itsmu the Grand Master (level 27, 249/249 HPs) Began as a Demonspawn Venom Mage on Mar 18, 2017. Was the Champion of Ashenzari. Escaped with the Orb ... and 15 runes on Mar 19, 2017! The game lasted 07:48:59 (101658 turns). itsmu the Grand Master (Demonspawn Venom Mage) Turns: 101658, Time: 07:48:59 Health: 249/249 AC: 47 Str: 20 XL: 27 Magic: 52/52 EV: 17 Int: 28 God: Ashenzari [******] Gold: 11446 SH: 22 Dex: 22 Spells: 1/59 levels left rFire + + . SeeInvis + - Unarmed rCold + + + Gourm . B - +6 crystal plate armour of the Blessed Realm {rPois rF++ MR+ Regen+} (curse) rNeg + . . Faith + N - +6 shield of the Trees {+Fly rPois MR+} (curse) rPois + Spirit . A - +0 helmet of the Abyss {rC++ MP+9 Str-3} (curse) rElec + Reflect . a - +2 cloak {MR+} (curse) rCorr . Harm . (gloves unavailable) MR +++++ Clarity + i - +2 pair of boots of the Assassin {Detection Stab+ Stlth++} (curse) Stlth ++........ E - amulet "Qepniej" {Faith rElec Str+4 Dex+3} (curse) Regen 1.0/turn I - +5 ring of slaying (curse) MPRegen 0.4/turn O - ring "Yschytoj" {*Contam rPois rC+ Str+8 Stlth-} (curse) @: deflect missiles A: claws 3, thin skeletal structure 3, blurry vision 2, clever 1, clumsy 1, mutation resistance 1, negative energy resistance 1, powered by death 3, powered by pain 3, electricity resistance, 50% torment resistance, black mark 0: Orb of Zot }: 15/15 runes: decaying, slimy, silver, golden, iron, obsidian, icy, bone, abyssal, demonic, glowing, magical, fiery, dark, gossamer a: Curse Item, Scrying, Transfer Knowledge, Renounce Religion, Evoke Flight DsVM has an appallingly bad level 1. You start with a 10% chance to miscast sting, a spell which can miss, and when it does hit it can deal no damage. It is not guaranteed to poison, even if it does hit and does deal damage. I'm pretty sure I travel excluded hobgoblins until I hit level 2. At level 2 you get a new spell which as far as I can tell is just the ability to smite-target poison onto whoever you want. At level 3 you get a spell for cowards. At level 4 you get Olgreb's Toxic Radiance, at which point you can throw the starting book into the trashcan and stop skilling poison magic because you have successfully mastered all of the secrets of venomancy. There is nowhere left for you to go. You've done it. By this point I had begun to grow claws, so I started skilling up unarmed skill. One little-known fact about poison magic is that all of the spells involve poison, making the spells very bad at killing things that are resistant to poison. Given that hydras, spiny frogs, and black mambas are all resistant to poison I decided to skip the Lair and cleared my way down to D:13 instead. Then I walked into the Orcish Mines and blasted the savage orcs with Olgrebian brilliance, before retreating from the end vault because some joker had decided to place demons in it, who are also resistant to poison. By now I had found several wands, and mastered the Iron Fist technique, so I felt confident that I could go back to the Lair and clear it out. I followed this up by clearing Swamp until the end vault, where I spotted the Lernaean Hydra. Terrified, I retreated into Spider, which would ordinarily be the worst branch in the game, except that almost everything in Spider is vulnerable to poison, making it such a bad joke that it could pass for a post on the something awful dot com forums ha ha. I did bump into Asterion, but fortunately I had a scroll of summoning in my bag, and my summoned spiders killed him in 2 turns. I reached the end vault of Spider fully expecting some tragic poison-resistant denouement, and it was delivered to me in the form of a vault full of crypt beetles, zombies, and emperor scorpions. Fortunately by now my Iron Fist technique had become so powerful that I was able to best the vermin in martial arts, although the scorpions took about 200 punches each because they are bullshitters. I then headed back to Orc to slay the demons and finally enter the Orcish mall, buying a phantom mirror which I used first to admire my own gorgeous face, and then on the Lernaean Hydra to kill it instantly. I cleared Vaults, and then Crypt next. I was banished from the Crypt, landing in the Abyss about 20 steps away from the rune, which I apported and escaped with. I did the Hells right after Tomb, finding my insanely good crystal plate mail in Gehenna, which I was still able to cast in. I also managed to sneak up to Asmodeus and kill him with a single, devastating punch, courtesy of my boots of murder. Maxed unarmed combat skill with claws 3 and a +5 ring of slaying is extremely powerful, and I was able to tab my way through the rest of the game, with a catalogue of spells in reserve for utility. Abjuration in particular is always very useful, as well as the usual stable of charms. In conclusion, I have no idea what Ashenzari does. Thank you for reading.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:24
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Thug Lessons posted:It's not any less repetitive than pressing tab over and over though? I'd argue it's less repetitive, at least I'm using different fingers and frankly it's easier to reach. If it doesn't bother you, alright. I believe you! But I know that it certainly bothered me, and I think the core of an ability like whirlwind and what makes it interesting is repositioning, and like similar mechanics in games like Brogue and Sil it should revolve around that, not applying a universally useful debuff.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:23
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IronicDongz posted:using 2 different fingers doesn't make it any less repetitive, it makes it slightly slower and more awkward to do when you're doing it over and over again. (definitely don't know what you mean about easier to reach) It's not slightly slower. I can tap two keys numpad as quickly as I can tap tab with a single finger, and so can most people without brain damage. I guess it's slower than holding down tab? When I say it's easier to reach I mean that hitting tab from home keys requires you to reach more than hitting the numpad with your hand hovering over it, which is objectively true. Anyway, there's no point in comparing this to Brogue or Sil because those are completely different games. You basically have the option of making whirlwind a lovely version of ax cleave, or giving it some sort of advantage. Since all the criticisms of giving it an advantage make no sense, and only exist in some fantasy world where pressing 1 and 9 is harder than pressing tab over and over, I'd rather go ahead and give it an advantage.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:33
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Personally I find adadadada much less annoying than managing spellbooks, remembering which key corresponds to which one of my 10 spells I memorized and doing common repetitive tasks like re-adjusting targeting on abilities/spells to hit the most targets possible. e: TBH I didn't realize annoyance at whirlwind repetitiveness was a thing, not that I think it's invalid. In any case it's not the rationale for slow removal on whirlwind (at least it wasn't based on the commit message), I don't think it's worth spending too much time arguing over. apple fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 02:33
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Thug Lessons posted:Should tabbing be encouraged over doing that? I question that assumption. They're functionally the same except "doing that" probably leads to less repetitive stress injuries. They are both 'just pressing buttons', but autofight exists as a means of relieving the player of having to spend some of their attention budget on figuring out which direction they have to move to attack the nearest enemy. Whirlwind in a state that encourages pressing adadada in front of an single enemy instead of just tabbing them is the same as having the Tab button, but the player gets a 30% damage boost if they manually move into the enemy instead. Whirlwind should be buffed to concentrate on actually encouraging the situations where it is interesting (moving through crowds, repositioning, hitting multiple enemies in a single move). It should not encourage creating a new variation of the single file corridor. If you are arguing that Tab is boring itself (which I'm not going to argue for), then the real design problem you're trying to tackle is monster design and why the majority of monsters require no tactics aside from autofighting with high enough stats, and the solution to that problem is not forcing the player to do it manually (because otherwise they will script it, like they already did before autofight used to exist).
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Mar 20, 2017 02:35
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Floodkiller posted:They are both 'just pressing buttons', but autofight exists as a means of relieving the player of having to spend some of their attention budget on figuring out which direction they have to move to attack the nearest enemy. Whirlwind in a state that encourages pressing adadada in front of an single enemy instead of just tabbing them is the same as having the Tab button, but the player gets a 30% damage boost if they manually move into the enemy instead If you're of so low intelligence that your "attention budget" is depleted by repeatedly pressing two keys instead of one you shouldn't be part of any discussion on game design.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:38
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Thug Lessons posted:You basically have the option of making whirlwind a lovely version of ax cleave, or giving it some sort of advantage. Thug Lessons posted:It's not slightly slower. I can tap two keys numpad as quickly as I can tap tab with a single finger, and so can most people without brain damage. I guess it's slower than holding down tab? When I say it's easier to reach I mean that hitting tab from home keys requires you to reach more than hitting the numpad with your hand hovering over it, which is objectively true. You don't need to do things like imply I have brain damage because I disagree with you, there's no reason to be an rear end about this.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:39
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IronicDongz posted:the advantage is that you can move while attacking, which is already significant and interesting In the context of Crawl, where you're always better off fighting stationary in a corridor if you can, not really. quote:I don't use numpad, and at any rate we are two different people who may do different things at different speeds! I know that I tap one key faster than I tap two different keys, and tapping two keys over and over again makes me hand uncomfortable. Maybe you can tap a single key quicker than two keys at once, who knows. But there's not actually anything wrong with the speed you can adad. In any combat that actually matters you're paying attention to both your health and the opponents' which is going to facilitate some input lag far beyond pure tapping speed, and if the combat doesn't matter at all you can just hold down tab regardless. The reason I have to imply you have brain damage is because you're making ridiculous arguments like this one, rather than ones that might actually matter (like the positioning one).
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Mar 20, 2017 02:46
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What's ridiculous about me thinking it's annoying? It's subjective, sure, but so is everything posted in favor of it inflicting slow.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:49
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