|
Will Perez force the dems left? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Yes |
|
33 | 6.38% |
| No |
|
343 | 66.34% |
| Keith Ellison |
|
54 | 10.44% |
| Pete Buttigieg |
|
71 | 13.73% |
| Jehmu Green |
|
16 | 3.09% |
| Total: | 416 votes | ||
|
frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Most of Trump's attacks that slew Hillary wouldn't have worked on Sanders because Sanders doesn't have the appearance of impropriety like she did, and also there aren't decades of character assassination on him Guess what else republicans have spent decades smearing as literally in league with satan? Socialism
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 01:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 16:06 |
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:Guess what else republicans have spent decades smearing as literally in league with satan? Socialism currently has a higher approval rating than Trump, Congress, Democrats, and Republicans.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 01:07
|
|
|
Actually, Trump's approval rating is slightly higher than socialism at 43%. Sanders is at 61%. Purge centrists now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 01:10
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:I think he should be trying to change the party from the inside. I was really hopeful that he would do that, and was very disappointed that he left. And if your definition of "Blue Dog" is "anyone who is an actual member of the Democratic party" then I don't know what to tell you.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 01:10
|
|
|
Except of course that that idiosyncrasy helped him lose the primary
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 01:13
|
|
|
Mr. Belding posted:Socialism currently has a higher approval rating than Trump, Congress, Democrats, and Republicans. Socialism polls 50 points behind Free Enterprise, 25 points behind Capitalism, and 18 points behind Big Business. Socialism and Hillary Clinton have similar approval ratings. So the suggestion that Republicans wouldn't have any negative advertising to run against Bernie is strange. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Mar 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 01:17
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:Socialism polls 50 points behind Free Enterprise, 25 points behind Capitalism, and 18 points behind Big Business. Socialism and Hillary Clinton have similar approval ratings. The same people who claimed Hillary and all her baggage would win the election are now claiming that there's no way in hell Americans would vote for a socialist
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 01:20
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:Socialism polls 50 points behind Free Enterprise, 25 points behind Capitalism, and 18 points behind Big Business. Socialism and Hillary Clinton have similar approval ratings. Even if I accept those numbers, Sanders (the most prominent American Socialist) still stomps her.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 01:21
|
|
|
Tight Booty Shorts posted:The same people who claimed Hillary and all her baggage would win the election are now claiming that there's no way in hell Americans would vote for a socialist Whereas the same people who claimed that Bernie had a chance in the primary are now claiming that Bernie would have won the general.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 01:25
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:Bernie couldn't come close to beating Hillary, and Hillary lost to Trump. By what logic could you see that working well at all? This Ronald Reagan guy couldn't even beat Ford in the primary, then Ford lost to Carter. Therefore Ronald Reagan is unelectable QED, you're crazy if you want to run him in 1980.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 01:27
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:Socialism polls 50 points behind Free Enterprise, 25 points behind Capitalism, and 18 points behind Big Business. Socialism and Hillary Clinton have similar approval ratings. So the suggestion that Republicans wouldn't have any negative advertising to run against Bernie is strange.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 01:32
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:Whereas the same people who claimed that Bernie had a chance in the primary are now claiming that Bernie would have won the general. With DWS and Brazille in charge of things it wasn't a very fair fight.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 01:37
|
|
|
Fados posted:Bernie bringing out misogynistic people and subsuming that crap into a cool and good leftist economic program is precisely what needs to happen. Bernie campaign could only be perceived as misogynistic by the irrelevant facts that he was running against a woman and that some misogynistic people ended up supporting it. But that is how you steal that nasty energy from an horrible jerk like Trump and channel it into something good. That is precisely how you undermine misogyny as a political tool. Of course! how could I have missed that we should be leveraging their misogyny! Their racism too! How about their desire to live in a mythical 1950s America that never actually existed? After all, the ends definitely justify those means. Be careful, there's a MAGA hat in your future.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 01:39
|
|
|
Tight Booty Shorts posted:With DWS and Brazille in charge of things it wasn't a very fair fight. But people that thought Bernie could win should have known that at the outset. They didn't. They were wrong, and therefore must be wrong about everything else, forever.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 01:44
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:Of course! how could I have missed that we should be leveraging their misogyny! Their racism too! How about their desire to live in a mythical 1950s America that never actually existed? After all, the ends definitely justify those means. That's not what he said, bud
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 01:44
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:But people that thought Bernie could win should have known that at the outset. They didn't. They were wrong, and therefore must be wrong about everything else, forever. What kind of logic is this? "But people that thought that Hillary could win should have known Russia would hack them. They didn't. They were wrong, and therefore must be wrong about everything, forever"
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 02:05
|
|
|
Tight Booty Shorts posted:What kind of logic is this? Your kind. Tight Booty Shorts posted:The same people who claimed Hillary and all her baggage would win the election are now claiming that there's no way in hell Americans would vote for a socialist
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 02:12
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:Your kind. That's not what I tried to convey at all- It seems hypocritical for Hillary supporters to all of a sudden rely on favorabiliy polls when they conviniently ignored how hated she was and still tried to ram her down our throats
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 02:21
|
|
|
That logic isn't any better, even if we ignore the factual problems. People who foolishly ignored opinion polling before are now attempting to reference opinion polling!
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 02:29
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:That logic isn't any better, even if we ignore the factual problems. People who foolishly ignored opinion polling before are now attempting to reference opinion polling! Positive is not the same as negative. Ignore the polls at your own peril, basically. Bernie is way more liked than any politician in the US. He should be at the forefront of the republican opposition.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 02:33
|
|
|
Tight Booty Shorts posted:Bernie is way more liked than any politician in the US. He should be at the forefront of the republican opposition. I completely agree. It's a crying shame he's not a Democrat.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 02:43
|
|
|
Tight Booty Shorts posted:Positive is not the same as negative. Bernie is at the forefront of opposing Trump. He also reads opinion polls. That's probably why his opposition to Trump does not reference the word socialism. Were he the general election candidate he would not have the luxury of avoiding attacks on socialism, which would define the Republican attack strategy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 02:50
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:Bernie is at the forefront of opposing Trump. He also reads opinion polls. That's probably why his opposition to Trump does not reference the word socialism. Were he the general election candidate he would not have the luxury of avoiding attacks on socialism, which would define the Republican attack strategy. Holy poo poo, I can't wait for the purge.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 02:55
|
|
|
Mr. Belding posted:Holy poo poo, I can't wait for the purge. Same.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 03:02
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:Of course! how could I have missed that we should be leveraging their misogyny! Their racism too! How about their desire to live in a mythical 1950s America that never actually existed? After all, the ends definitely justify those means. You are projecting some strawman into my post, please try to read it more carefully. Misogyny/Xenophobia/Racism in a political context are simple answers that function as a cover to some underlying antagonic social gap (eg: decreasing middle class due to deregulated globalizaton). I'm obviously not in favor of dogwhistling misogyny to somehow attract people to a leftist economic program. What I'm saying is that it's precisely by attracting misogynists through populist economic reform in an otherwise socially progressive program that you eventually politically undermine those bad ideas.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 03:05
|
|
|
Remember when Fox news and Republicans called Obama a socialist constantly and it prevented him from a second term? Bernie definitely wouldn't have been able to handle it
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 03:13
|
|
|
frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Remember when Fox news and Republicans called Obama a socialist constantly and it prevented him from a second term? Bernie definitely wouldn't have been able to handle it They were calling him much worse things than socialist, too bad he never saw his second term
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 03:15
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:Bernie is at the forefront of opposing Trump. He also reads opinion polls. That's probably why his opposition to Trump does not reference the word socialism. Were he the general election candidate he would not have the luxury of avoiding attacks on socialism, which would define the Republican attack strategy. I agree in part with this, and Hillary even slightly hit him in this vein during the Florida debate showing that 'surprise' video of him sorta defending Castro. I guess in that context it really hurt him but not just because of socialism but also due to the specific circumstance in that case (Florida expats and Cuba resentment). Tbh I think Bernie has enough experience demystifying and skillfully dodging the S word through years of dealing with that poo poo that the Red Scaremongering that Republicans would certainly throw him woulnd't overcome the framing of Trump as a phoney anti-establishment guy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 03:15
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:Bernie is at the forefront of opposing Trump. He also reads opinion polls. That's probably why his opposition to Trump does not reference the word socialism. Were he the general election candidate he would not have the luxury of avoiding attacks on socialism, which would define the Republican attack strategy. Yes he absolutely references socialism. He's not exactly calling for free market solutions to the problems trump is causing, is he?
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 03:17
|
|
|
I also want to point out that a good political leaders works within their current circumstances while striving for and advocating something better. For example, working to get health insurance for all while advocating single payer, not saying single payer "will never ever" happen. One of those approaches inspires people and one does the opposite
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 03:27
|
|
|
for the love of god someone make a post that has nothing to do with Sanders vs Clinton. Like about Perez. what has tom perez been up to
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 04:28
|
|
|
frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Remember when Fox news and Republicans called Obama a socialist constantly and it prevented him from a second term? Bernie definitely wouldn't have been able to handle it I think a false accusation of being a socialist is probably not as effective as one that's true. But we've never tried running a democrat who'll defend socialism--not just the welfare state, but changing the ownership of the means of production--so anything's possible.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 05:15
|
|
|
if you say anything against hillary clinton, you're a misogynist #I'm With Her
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 05:18
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:I think a false accusation of being a socialist is probably not as effective as one that's true. But we've never tried running a democrat who'll defend socialism--not just the welfare state, but changing the ownership of the means of production--so anything's possible. Under that definition Bernie isn't a socialist though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 05:24
|
|
|
Condiv posted:I have received an email from Julie Greene that the vote tallies will be sent out on Monday to all that requested them, myself included. We'll see, but I'm hopeful that the DNC complies, showing Perez is at least interested in giving the impression of walking the walk. Did they ever release the vote tally?
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 05:32
|
|
|
frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:I also want to point out that a good political leaders works within their current circumstances while striving for and advocating something better. For example, working to get health insurance for all while advocating single payer, not saying single payer "will never ever" happen. One of those approaches inspires people and one does the opposite Yeah but if Democrats inspire their voters than those voters will expect them to do things that make donor class angry and the Democrats will never go against their true constituents
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 05:40
|
|
|
WillyTheNewGuy posted:Did they ever release the vote tally? yes they did
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 05:47
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:I think he did pretty poorly considering how much baggage Hillary Clinton had. He did bring out the misogynistic left wing in full force though, that was a hell of an eye opener. Then he quit the party again, because he'd rather be able to say "I told you so" than actually take part in making things better. Eh, this is kinda dumb logic. Hillary had baggage, but she also had far, far, far, far, far greater name recognition than Bernie, which is a far more important factor in elections. Hillary basically received all of the "hm I don't really know much about both candidates" votes because even people who aren't politically savvy would have been very familiar with her. She also benefited greatly from her association with Bill Clinton and the relative prosperity of the 90's. There are a LOT of Baby Boomer Democrats who voted with this in mind. I don't think any of the things I mentioned are remotely unethical in any way, but it's still dumb to deny that it's a huge advantage she had against Sanders from the beginning and it's dumb to criticize Sanders for this. Also, he has been very outspoken and involved after the election. I think you're letting your perception of a vocally dumb/obnoxious minority of Sanders supporters color your impression of everything remotely associated with him and irrationally erring on the side of negative "devil's advocate" positions regarding anything positive or defensive said about him/his supporters. People also do this about Clinton and Clinton supporters, though it feels a little more obnoxious and mean-spirited when it's aimed at the comparatively powerless leftists rather than the people who actually hold the most power. (Also there's the fact that performance in the primary isn't a good predictor of how a candidate would perform in the general election, but that's a separate issue entirely.) DeadlyMuffin posted:Wait, so did the Clinton camp over emphasize it (probably) or did it not exist? You should pick one and stick with it. I'm not saying it flipped the election, I'm saying it was there, and it was gross. It existed, but not to a particularly relevant degree, and (more importantly) there's no reason to believe that Sanders supporters were more sexist or racist on average than Clinton supporters (there's actually some evidence to support that Sanders supporters were less racist on average than Clinton supporters, though not enough to really assert that it's definitely true). Overall, Clinton received more votes from women, but (based upon what data I could find) not to a big enough extent to say "women disliked Sanders". Also, Sanders had a very big lead among younger women (and younger people in general), so (assuming you're also under 35 or so), your anecdote actually points to the opposite of reality on that front. I think that you're letting your personal experience distort your view of reality on this matter. Like that other poster most of the Sanders supporters I know were women*, but because I'm not an idiot I don't think that my limited anecdotal evidence actually says anything about Sanders voters in general. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Mar 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 05:48
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:\Also, he has been very outspoken and involved after the election. I think you're letting your perception of a vocally dumb/obnoxious minority of Sanders supporters color your impression of everything remotely associated with him and irrationally erring on the side of negative "devil's advocate" positions regarding anything positive or defensive said about him/his supporters. People also do this about Clinton and Clinton supporters, though it feels a little more obnoxious and mean-spirited when it's aimed at the comparatively powerless leftists rather than the people who actually hold the most power. You may be right. I hope you're right, frankly. Bernie's abandonment of the Democratic party after the election also really got to me. Unless (and until) the system is changed, we have a two party system. When leftists insist on being outside those two parties, instead of trying to co-opt one of them to leftist causes, I think we hurt ourselves in the name of ideological purity. I want the Bernie Sanders wing to take over the Democratic party, not sit outside it and throw (well deserved) poo poo at it. It seems like the only way we'll actually accomplish anything in our current system. sleep with the vicious posted:if you say anything against hillary clinton, you're a misogynist You're pathetic. Fados posted:I'm obviously not in favor of dogwhistling misogyny to somehow attract people to a leftist economic program. I'm glad, and I'm sorry I misread your post. Fados posted:What I'm saying is that it's precisely by attracting misogynists through populist economic reform in an otherwise socially progressive program that you eventually politically undermine those bad ideas. I think this is overly optimistic. Until you address their misogyny they will continue to be misogynists. DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Mar 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 05:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 16:06 |
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:Bernie's abandonment of the Democratic party after the election also really got to me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2017 06:14
|
|