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Thought the film was great, though not to the extent that many do. Only real complaint is the third act. Otherwise it's just a matter of it not quite clicking with me on an emotional level like it did with so many others. In regards to Mangold's thoughts on the gold and blue costume? I mean, this obviously was not the film for it, but in the more general sense, the lack of it was a real missed opportunity to build up to the very themes this film thrives on. Mangold is right, that costume doesn't gel with Loan's personality. But that was the point. The blue and gold (and to a lesser extent, red) are the X-Men's colors. They signify that you're a part of them. The X-Men in general wearing those costumes 7s about saying "We're mutants and we're proud of that." But for Wolverine? Wearing that costume, switching from his more Earth-tone set, is about him having found a family. About putting aside his own ego and tastes because, yeah, sometimes spending time with the family is about looking silly together. (And it being more yellow than blue is about saying "gently caress you, Summers." His costume is an inversion of Cyclops'.) Now picture the alternate universe where the X-Men had been rocking the blue and gold since the first film and Logan had been wearing his costume since X2 (where it would also be thematically relevant). And then we hit this film, which is about the loss of that family he'd managed to find for himself. And this is the film wear he's not in any costume. Not the blue and gold, not the brown. He's just a very old, very tired man whose lost almost all of the connections he'd once had. But that missed opportunity isn't on Mangold, not at all. I just wanted to note that it was there.
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Mar 18, 2017 15:16
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:That actually sounds like a typical action movie. No, it doesn't. The typical action movie follows a standard plot of "boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy picks up unfeasibly large arsenal and kills 300 people". The hero takes hits that don't matter in the next scene, he may get sweaty but he rarely gets tired, and if he ever bleeds it's in a way that says "the stakes are REAL!" when we know they're not. Logan doesn't do any of that.
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Mar 18, 2017 15:50
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tetrapyloctomy posted:I have picked human brain matter off of my work clothes, and I did not find the violence in the movie to be bland. what do you do for a living?
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Mar 18, 2017 18:13
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gohmak posted:what do you do for a living? From a workload perspective, chart in between raising heroin users from near or actual death.
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Mar 18, 2017 18:38
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Are we still doing spoiler tags? Evil Clone Wolverine was a really weak antagonistic force and the thematic idea of him representing the embodiment of Logan's rage didn't really work. Because even though he went "RARGH" a bunch while stabbing dudes, he was kind of a blank slate robotic professional Terminator style villain and didn't convey being a dark mirror to Logan's anger at all, despite Richard E Grant's expository line about rage. Plus the character itself was just really distracting and a jarringly out of place story beat. Also thought it really cheapened the ending of the movie to have the capstone for this character after 17 years of film (and 40 years of comicbook?) be a reference to another movie. The whole movie working as a reference was enough, would've been nice to have your characters express something more genuine and personal to this story you're telling now.
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Mar 18, 2017 23:21
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I kind of agree, but, the reason I actually think that speech was ok is that her whole life has been spent in that institution. Poor girl has probably never heard any other speeches or eulogys except for the one in that movie. In a way it's more realistic that she repeats the one appropriate speech she's heard than if she came up with some perfect little eulogy as some films would certainly have done it.
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Mar 19, 2017 00:12
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I wonder what the thinking behind making the reavers so deliberately white trash looking was. It was definetly a stylistic choice than went beyond making them cyber-blackwater.
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Mar 19, 2017 01:44
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themrguy posted:I wonder what the thinking behind making the reavers so deliberately white trash looking was. It was definetly a stylistic choice than went beyond making them cyber-blackwater. "white people"
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Mar 19, 2017 02:31
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Anals of History posted:I could see that, but I guess why spend $70k on a nice boat if that's your plan? Feel like they could kill themselves on pretty much any boat. Maybe that's me just being cheap. They kinda lay heavily into the fact that the boat more than likely Logan's way of giving Xavier one last happy experience before murder/suicide. Xavier in a moment of lucidity mentions the same when in response to Logan saying the Eden isn't real, he says "it's real to Laura!" Alan_Shore posted:Any thoughts on Xavier's last words? It was basically one more directly drawn parallel to "tell me about the rabbits again, George"
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Mar 19, 2017 02:58
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I had watched a couple podcasts before seeing the movie from Funhaus and others touting the line "Best super hero movie, ever?!" and I just figured it was clickbait there to bring in the viewers. I thought it was all hyperbole and was going to be "Deadpool, but with Wolverine" and didn't expect much. The movie was great, and if you'd watched all the films and saw the relationship between Charles and Logan it was even more emotional than that. It might be the best super hero movie that's part of the main Marvel/DC cinematic super hero lines, that's for sure. But I feel like this movie could only exist because of all the movies before it, good or bad, just to swerve expectations. One part that I'm still a little confused about is When everyone thought Laura couldn't talk, and she acted like a feral child the whole time versus when Laura started talking and just became an absolutely normal girl. There didn't seem to be anything specific that triggered it, and I can easily buy her just choosing not to talk through most of the movie, but I don't understand why she acted so feral up until that point, either. All I can figure is that she learned a whole lot just from observing Logan, including how to drive a goddamn truck
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Mar 19, 2017 04:43
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Was Laura really that feral though? When she wasn't stabbing people she seemed like an adaptable, surprisingly normal kid who liked horsies.
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Mar 19, 2017 05:51
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Ponderous Saxon posted:Was Laura really that feral though? When she wasn't stabbing people she seemed like an adaptable, surprisingly normal kid who liked horsies.
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Mar 19, 2017 05:53
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RealFoxy posted:Almost murdering someone for stopping her from shoplifting? It was someone who touched her. There's a pretty clear cause effect relationship. Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 07:08
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I don't think you dudes know what feral means.
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Mar 19, 2017 13:57
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Didn't she cut up the nurse who saved her?
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Mar 19, 2017 14:28
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Jedit posted:No, it doesn't. The typical action movie follows a standard plot of "boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy picks up unfeasibly large arsenal and kills 300 people". The hero takes hits that don't matter in the next scene, he may get sweaty but he rarely gets tired, and if he ever bleeds it's in a way that says "the stakes are REAL!" when we know they're not. Logan doesn't do any of that. RealFoxy posted:But I feel like this movie could only exist because of all the movies before it, good or bad, just to swerve expectations. The idea thar Logan is somehow subversive seems surprisingly common. It's fairly safe in form and content. For example, it predicted and appeals to resigned liberal fantasies of the Trump era. The heroes are mostly impotent to change a world ruled by corporations and (as noted above) their white trash henchmen. Logan even has to go along with obnoxious rich WASPS as a limo driver. This resignation is replicated in a microcosm with the Munson family who are powerless against the Big Agri and their white trash henchmen. There's no burden of anything changing or getting overthrown, which suits a sense of resignation.
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Mar 19, 2017 15:31
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maybe if you ignore the part where they escape the corporation imprisoning and experimenting on them, kill dozens of their security forces, and flee to Eden (and then Canada)? you seem to be drawing a weirdly spurious connection between the movie's leftist-but-not-literally-Elysium politics and the good-but-not-Fury-Road action and saying neither of these things are good because a small child holds a toy.
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Mar 19, 2017 15:55
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ungulateman posted:maybe if you ignore the part where they escape the corporation imprisoning and experimenting on them, kill dozens of their security forces, and flee to Eden (and then Canada)? The heroes lost a long time ago, and are just waiting to die. The children were just a loose end, and in the end disappear into an imaginary place. The infrastructure that made all this possible still remains, like how the robot trucks and harvest machines remain utterly indifferent to what happens. It's a pretty obvious end of history statement, where there's not really any hope for change anymore, which is why it appeals to liberal types. The Wolverine action figure is mostly unrelated to that, but remains absolutely hilarious. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 16:12
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The Wolverine action figure is mostly unrelated to that, but remains absolutely hilarious. That ruined the entire impact of the ending for me. I just started quietly giggling at the big action figure in the kids hands.
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Mar 19, 2017 16:28
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What the poo poo is all this action figure talk? I don't remember anything like that in the movie.
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Mar 19, 2017 17:02
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Didn't she cut up the nurse who saved her? UmOk posted:What the poo poo is all this action figure talk? I don't remember anything like that in the movie. Grey Fox fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 17:36
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Grey Fox posted:No. She said she was wounded coming over the border to the US, and then it's specifically asked later if Logan shot her, and Logan says that he hates guns. And this action figure is ruining the movie for some people?
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Mar 19, 2017 18:44
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The heroes lost a long time ago, and are just waiting to die. The children were just a loose end, and in the end disappear into an imaginary place. The infrastructure that made all this possible still remains, like how the robot trucks and harvest machines remain utterly indifferent to what happens. It's a pretty obvious end of history statement, where there's not really any hope for change anymore, which is why it appeals to liberal types. Capitalism and Dystopia won and there is no hope of escape in real life though.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:39
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UmOk posted:And this action figure is ruining the movie for some people?
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Mar 19, 2017 19:46
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The idea thar Logan is somehow subversive seems surprisingly common. It's fairly safe in form and content.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:49
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UmOk posted:And this action figure is ruining the movie for some people? Not me, I loved the film, but it was really funny to see that during such an important scene.
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Mar 19, 2017 20:05
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Is someone in this topic failing to realize that Eden and the refuge aren't the same thing? Because Eden was the code name for their meeting place. Its coordinates are in the US. It was chosen because it was near the border and all of the kids probably knew those coordinates by heart. The refuge is in Canada. It may or may not exist, but has nothing to do with the comic. If anything it's an extended immigration/refugee metaphor.
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Mar 19, 2017 20:37
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Mantis42 posted:Capitalism and Dystopia won and there is no hope of escape in real life though. Nothing ever ends, especially not history
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Mar 19, 2017 20:58
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It ends with ecological collapse and human extinction.
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Mar 19, 2017 21:01
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Mantis42 posted:It ends with ecological collapse and human extinction. Humans maintained breeding populations north of the arctic circle and in the Sahara for millennia using rocks and pieces of dead animals as their only tools. For better or worse they won't be extinct any time soon.
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Mar 19, 2017 21:06
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MrJacobs posted:That ruined the entire impact of the ending for me. I just started quietly giggling at the big action figure in the kids hands. Giggling inappropriately during sacred moments is like the most authentic reaction to the ending though. It wouldn't be sacred if you were supposed to laugh, and if it wasn't sacred it wouldn't be nearly so god damned funny.
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Mar 19, 2017 23:04
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Jesus, it's bleak but not that bleak. The bad guys have a lot of power and money and idiot henchmen who will throw themselves into to meat grinder for them, but meaningful resistance is still possible. The corporations can be stopped in the pursuit of goals that they consider important. There is potential for growth and hope in the future. It's just going to be an inter-generational struggle, rather than the war that Xavier and Logan thought that they could fight and win. It's not an accident that the movie starts in an abandoned, almost apocalyptic sun baked post industrial wasteland, but finishes in a forrest full of green and growing things.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:31
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One of my favorite moments was the master villain shot right in the middle of explaining his grand scheme. Logan doesn't have time for that.
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Mar 20, 2017 05:21
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Edit: there are extremely vague SPOILER comments in the following hot-take. Nothing very specific, but if you haven't seen the movie and want a TOTAL clean-watch, maybe skim this post: Finally saw this movie earlier today, and really liked it. I'm a sucker for hot-takes and/or twists on a Western, and stories that play with the idea of The Hero struggling with his or her own legend. The personal struggle of a Joseph Campbell monomyth to live up to his own monomyth member status in an unexpected context (here, the world of soft entertainment comic book heroism) is extremely my poo poo. My only real criticism is that it's clearly a movie about how violence corrupts and poisons its practitioners. Logan literally coughed sickly and prominently after moments of violence, even when justified. In light of that, the "woah rad action" moments of cute children brutally murdering faceless baddies are something I have to spend more time thinking about. Don't they imply that all of these kids, via killing dudes in rad wood splinter psychic murder rage, are just as poisoned as him? Maybe it's a Cormac McCarthy "yeah they're brutal and poisoned too because such is life and so is everyone but they now have HOPE, the best we can hope for." Also the girl didn't need to straight up QUOTE Shane at the end - the white vs. black muscle tank tops drew the comparison well enough. Like, it did a "Shane" thing as seen in act II by girl watching the movie with professor X, I totally got that and loved the subtle recreation of the same ideas in Act III. I enjoyed the recitation of Shane's final lines in the moment, but I thought it was a little heavy handed to straight-up quote it. Or maybe not. I need to think about it. (which, for a comic book movie about x-mans, means it was a good movie). Finally: more slow lingering landscape shots. There was some of that.... but slow it down a little more. I need slow vistas and poo poo for days before any action to properly go full western. Also, lingering shots of the "gunslingers" eyes prior to showdown, please. Overall though - best "serious movie take" on comic book junk that's out there, for sure. A Tasteful Nude fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 05:28
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Also it just struck me that the entire time Wolverine is on a quest to return to Canada, where he came from. His daughter completing the journey home is a nice touch.
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Mar 20, 2017 05:28
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MrJacobs posted:That ruined the entire impact of the ending for me. I just started quietly giggling at the big action figure in the kids hands. I missed it, but since the fact that there's X-men comic books in this movie's universe is well established, I don't see it as such an out of place thing.
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Mar 20, 2017 07:25
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Her primal screams was the most unsettling part of the movie, certainly more so than the action. Which is why walking back from her being a feral child was such a weird choice. BravestOfTheLamps posted:I watched John Wick, and it was a great counterpoint in how effectively it used action choreography to a certain effect. It was so restrained and professionally deliberate that it quickly becomes sickening how coolly the hero offs countless people, making it both exciting and repulsive. Logan's fight choreography is unremarkable, and doesn't evoke the animalistic motifs the characters embody. X-23's Caerbannogian jumps and flips are the obvious exception to that. When Logan returns in top form on a berserker rampage, what changes is that he runs a lot and jumps once. I agree, the fight choreography in Logan was unremarkable, except for the times it was remarkable. Well said.
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Mar 20, 2017 07:58
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It's like someone holding a cross during the crucifixion, imo. The kids are reclaiming Wolverine and the X-men as a symbol from the corporation that's trying to control them. It's the same logic behind them getting the location of Eden out of the comics. A desperate false hope becomes something real because the believers are willing to fight for it. I wasn't kidding when I said this was a good, christian film, turned 90 degrees
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Mar 20, 2017 08:03
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Bill Dungsroman posted:It's like not remotely weird and one of the major plot point/character arcs though? Well, the more accurate wod would be safe. Before she starts speaking, there's a sense of tragedy to her character: her ruthlessly slaughtering people expresses how broken she was by Logan's superhero world. Then she starts talking, she's actually just a normal kid who is also a super-efficient killer. The same applies to all the other kids. By this point the audience is well desensitized to the sight of children killing people, so that the whole tragedy of it becomes a non-issue - instead the issue is that Laura wants daddy to stay with her. It's a narrative sidestep that throws the focus away from the unsettling question of violence, towards that inauthentic quoting of Shane (like A Tasteful Nude points out, the kids are already corrupted by violence). Bill Dungsroman posted:I agree, the fight choreography in Logan was unremarkable, except for the times it was remarkable. Well said. The remarkable choreography is in the minority. Logan's berserker rampage is only memorable because it's less bland, i't's still just Logan running at people in a line. ungulateman posted:It's like someone holding a cross during the crucifixion, imo. The kids are reclaiming Wolverine and the X-men as a symbol from the corporation that's trying to control them. That's the kind of logic that makes the action figure so funny: toys as religion.
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Mar 20, 2017 10:13
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The remarkable choreography is in the minority. Logan's berserker rampage is only memorable because it's less bland, i't's still just Logan running at people in a line. Well, I just figured it was because he was trying to catch up to someone.
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Mar 20, 2017 12:12
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