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Will Perez force the dems left? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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33 | 6.38% |
| No |
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343 | 66.34% |
| Keith Ellison |
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54 | 10.44% |
| Pete Buttigieg |
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71 | 13.73% |
| Jehmu Green |
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16 | 3.09% |
| Total: | 416 votes | ||
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JeffersonClay posted:Considering the bill was opposed by majorities of democratic voters and politicians in CO, perhaps we should change the thread title to Will the democrats change and stop representing their membership? Are you or are you not in favor of a single payer system?
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Mar 20, 2017 16:35
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mcmagic posted:Child of rich, famous and influential parents getting a good job is not a scandal. No one cares. It's SOP. Actually a lot of people care. Why do you think people call Clinton corrupt all the time? It's cause she pulls poo poo like this. Why do you think people wanted an outsider candidate so bad? Cause they want free of the corruption of the dems and republicans. By giving corrupt dems a pass, you feed the fascism that threatens to consume this country.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:35
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Quick recap of old poo poo: Occupy originally kicked off as a NY based thing because the first protests were against Cuomo and Bloomberg, and their boner for austerity and law and order. That was at the same time Wisconsin was going down. The dems have always been full of this poo poo. Also anyone who pretends the blue dogs are gone when Cuomo and Difi are still in office deserves all the pain that won't be coming their way because they're probably too wealthy or secure to suffer from their neoliberalism.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:39
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Condiv posted:Actually a lot of people care. Why do you think people call Clinton corrupt all the time? It's cause she pulls poo poo like this. Why do you think people wanted an outsider candidate so bad? Cause they want free of the corruption of the dems and republicans. By giving corrupt dems a pass, you feed the fascism that threatens to consume this country. They don't call her corrupt because her daughter got a dumb job. They call her corrupt because she's been in Washington for 30 years and has had 30 years of bullshit slung at her by republicans. I'm not giving her a free pass and I didn't vote for her in the primary but the idea that she's corrupt is right wing fever swamp bullshit. She's a middle of the road typical politician who made a lot of money off her position which puts her in the same position as Obama and the vast majority of members of both parties. That isn't corruption. How anyone can call that corruption after the blatant quid pro quo self dealing that we're seeing in the white house right now is mind boggling. The false equivalence is stomach turning.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:40
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Condiv posted:Actually a lot of people care. Why do you think people call Clinton corrupt all the time? It's cause she pulls poo poo like this. Why do you think people wanted an outsider candidate so bad? Cause they want free of the corruption of the dems and republicans. By giving corrupt dems a pass, you feed the fascism that threatens to consume this country. it's a bit odd that you're so focused on Clinton in this regard when nepotism and networking amongst the rentier class is much more a structural issue than a personal one. Like i'm sympathetic to your argument that nepotism is corruption, but it seems to me more like the inevitable result of the concentration of capital (and power) in few hands.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:42
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The ability and willingness of most of the american political office-holders to insert themselves in the capitalist class (if they weren't already part of it) might not be corruption on a legal level but it does ensure that their economic views are ultimately always going to be largely pro-business. It's not corruption so much as it's the normal functioning of capitalist democracy, it just seems corrupt from the bottom. This doesn't accuse or exonerate Clinton either way, although she is as much a part of the problem as the rest.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:45
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mcmagic posted:They don't call her corrupt because her daughter got a dumb job. They call her corrupt because she's been in Washington for 30 years and has had 30 years of bullshit slung at her by republicans. I'm not giving her a free pass and I didn't vote for her in the primary but the idea that she's corrupt is right wing fever swamp bullshit. She's a middle of the road typical politician who made a lot of money off her position which puts her in the same position as Obama and the vast majority of members of both parties. That isn't corruption. How anyone can call that corruption after the blatant quid pro quo self dealing that we're seeing in the white house right now is mind boggling. The false equivalence is stomach turning. Lol no she's corrupt cause she had 30 years of bribes. And I strongly disagree that this arrangement isn't corruption cause everyone's doing it. People are pissed cause congress is massively corrupt and not representing their interests. Trumps massive corruption is just the natural extension of the corruption plaguing washington. Stop enabling corruption if you don't want it to grow worse.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:47
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Condiv posted:Lol no she's corrupt cause she had 30 years of bribes. And I strongly disagree that this arrangement isn't corruption cause everyone's doing it. People are pissed cause congress is massively corrupt and not representing their interests. Your false equivalence here is what has enabled corruption to grow worse. It's why Trump is the president.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:50
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A big flaming stink posted:it's a bit odd that you're so focused on Clinton in this regard when nepotism and networking amongst the rentier class is much more a structural issue than a personal one. Like i'm sympathetic to your argument that nepotism is corruption, but it seems to me more like the inevitable result of the concentration of capital (and power) in few hands. I specifically mention Clinton cause everyone was trying to pretend she wasn't corrupt as gently caress. And yes, this nepotism and corruption is endemic, and it pisses me off that dems defend similarly corrupt politicians.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:49
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it's almost like being elected is supposed to be a public service rather than a path to riches 
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Mar 20, 2017 16:51
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mcmagic posted:Your false equivalence here is what has enabled corruption to grow worse. It's why Trump is the president. Actually you'll find I had no actual ability to stop trump's presidency once the primary had passed. And I'd like to know how me being anti corruption actually caused more corruption. It probably requires rhetorical acrobatics similar to those used to claim minimum wage advocacy hurts the poor.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:52
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Condiv posted:Actually you'll find I had no actual ability to stop trump's presidency once the primary had passed. And I'd like to know how me being anti corruption actually caused more corruption. It probably requires rhetorical acrobatics similar to those used to claim minimum wage advocacy hurts the poor. 70%+ of those who had negative views of both candidates voted for Trump. Textbook false equivalency thinking and the reason he won.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:54
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MooselanderII posted:Are you or are you not in favor of a single payer system? Depends on the implementation. But more to the point, I think there are more important conclusions to reach from prop 69 failing by a 4-to-1 margin than socialism can only be failed.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:53
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mcmagic posted:70%+ of those who had negative views of both candidates voted for Trump. Textbook false equivalency thinking and the reason he won. Tripling down with the baddems.txt poo poo that implies anyone who said something negative about her in D&D must be a trump voter?
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Mar 20, 2017 16:56
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Agnosticnixie posted:Tripling down with the baddems.txt poo poo that implies anyone who said something negative about her in D&D must be a trump voter? Who gives a poo poo who he voted for? It's his line of thinking that was the issue and that it was widely shared.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:58
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mcmagic posted:70%+ of those who had negative views of both candidates voted for Trump. Textbook false equivalency thinking and the reason he won. Problem with that reasoning is that I live in a blood red state no one believed clinton had a snowball's chance in even when flawed polling was overestimating her chances. Of course, I took advantage of my "good fortune" by casting a protest vote for Gloria la riva that had the exact same effect on the outcome on the election that a vote for Hillary would've got me. I literally had no outcome on the election past the primary, no matter how much you want to pretend I did. If I had lived in a blue or swing state I'd have held my nose and voted for her, but as a powerless dem in a state abandoned by dems, that wasn't a choice I had to make.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:02
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mcmagic posted:Who gives a poo poo who he voted for? It's his line of thinking that was the issue and that it was widely shared. Abuela can only be failed, etc. It's highly possible, in fact highly likely, that the remaining 30% was coming at it from a different direction than the 70% who voted Trump. The 70% who voted Trump likely didn't give a poo poo about her hardon for death squads for one. Also I can only wish S.Alt. gets emboldened by the existence of Kshama Sawant and starts gaining more seats, because they definitely bring out the bad dems in droves and it's kind of hilarious to see them struggling to act like they give a gently caress about the poor. Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 17:02
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Condiv posted:Problem with that reasoning is that I live in a blood red state no one believed clinton had a snowball's chance in even when flawed polling was overestimating her chances. a few thousand morons just like you in wisconsin though...
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Mar 20, 2017 17:03
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Condiv posted:Problem with that reasoning is that I live in a blood red state no one believed clinton had a snowball's chance in even when flawed polling was overestimating her chances. It's not you personally, it's the thousands of people who have the same moronic views as you.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:04
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Polygynous posted:a few thousand morons just like you in wisconsin though... For someone who shits on my English, your grasp of capitalisation and full sentences is a bit lacking. So is your grasp of stats apparently. She wouldn't have won even if all the green voters had been forced to vote dem at gunpoint, the margin wasn't close enough. If anything, the libertarians reduced her margin, as the libertarian party got three times as many votes as the rest of the other third parties combined.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:06
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Polygynous posted:a few thousand morons just like you in wisconsin though... yeah, dems should probably stop calling people whose votes they want morons. Also maybe not abandon unions in violation of their campaign promises and actually visit states, but let's start with the easy mode goal of not attacking their own base
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Mar 20, 2017 17:07
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Condiv posted:yeah, dems should probably stop calling people whose votes they want morons. Also maybe not abandon unions in violation of their campaign promises and actually visit states, but let's start with the easy mode goal of not attacking their own base You are a thinking human being I assume? How is Donald Trump and the Republicans in power going to help unions? As opposed to Hillary Clinton who ran in 2008 and 16 supporting card check?
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Mar 20, 2017 17:09
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mcmagic posted:You are a thinking human being I assume? How is Donald Trump and the Republicans in power going to help unions? As opposed to Hillary Clinton who ran in 2008 supporting card check? How is Cuomo in power helping unions? General dem inaction in 2011 left a massive rift with the major unions that isn't going to recover anytime soon, there's a reason they had progressive wing dems bending the knee the week after election night. Unions have been massively taken for granted by the DNC and only end up being used for warm bodies and cash while not getting anything back in terms of worker rights.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:09
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mcmagic posted:It's not you personally, it's the thousands of people who have the same moronic views as you. You mean the ones who held their nose and voted hillary in the general? Cause I would've if I lived somewhere where a vote for a dem president could possibly win. I'm not sure how that's responsible for hillary losing, but you're the smart guy here. 
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Mar 20, 2017 17:11
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Agnosticnixie posted:How is Cuomo in power helping unions? General dem inaction in 2011 left a massive rift with the major unions that isn't going to recover anytime soon, there's a reason they had progressive wing dems bending the knee the week after election night. Unions have been massively taken for granted by the DNC and only end up being used for warm bodies and cash while not getting anything back in terms of worker rights. Cuomo is a piece of poo poo and the DNC has taken unions for granted but you didn't answer my question. Hillary Clinton was clearly and unequivocally better for unions and more harm is going to come to unions because she lost. That is a 100% fact. Just Neil Goursch and whoever else Trump installs on the court are going to cast crippling votes for unions for the next 30 years. Condiv posted:You mean the ones who held their nose and voted hillary in the general? Cause I would've if I lived somewhere where a vote for a dem president could possibly win. I'm not sure how that's responsible for hillary losing, but you're the smart guy here. mcmagic fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 17:13
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mcmagic posted:Good for you. But you're spouting the same arguments that the people who didn't vote or voted for Trump did. Because they're right, Hillary is corrupt. Trump's worse, but he's just the next step in corruption, not an entirely different beast altogether. Sorry I'm not pretending that dems taking massive amounts of money in exchange for favors isn't corrupt and that republicans are the only corrupt ones in congress.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:18
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mcmagic posted:70%+ of those who had negative views of both candidates voted for Trump. Textbook false equivalency thinking and the reason he won. You were definitely better when you prophesying Trumps victory. I want the old mcmagic back. Forsake your Abuela and join us on the red side (socialist, not GOP).
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Mar 20, 2017 17:18
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Condiv posted:Because they're right, Hillary is corrupt. Trump's worse, but he's just the next step in corruption, not an entirely different beast altogether. In terms of the corruption scale she's a 2.3 and he's a 7 billion. Scale and perspective matter. Mr. Belding posted:You were definitely better when you prophesying Trumps victory. I want the old mcmagic back. Forsake your Abuela and join us on the red side (socialist, not GOP). I did not predict he would win. I said she was a poo poo candidate and I was right and I still believe she was a poo poo candidate. I also voted for her and anyone who didn't was wrong/moronic/evil. There is nothing incomparable with having social democratic politics and voting for her. I live in the real world. mcmagic fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 17:19
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The truth is the Dems do represent their membership. The membership just happens to be a bunch of FYGM coastal voters who helped suck the life out of most of America and are now frantically trying to convince minorities that they won't do the same to them(they will).
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Mar 20, 2017 17:20
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JeffersonClay posted:Considering the bill was opposed by majorities of democratic voters and politicians in CO, perhaps we should change the thread title to Will the democrats change and stop representing their membership?
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Mar 20, 2017 17:23
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mcmagic posted:70%+ of those who had negative views of both candidates voted for Trump. Textbook false equivalency thinking and the reason he won. Wouldn't false equivalency lead to neither candidate getting a vote?
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Mar 20, 2017 17:23
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Condiv's hate boner for Hil doesn't make him to blame for anything except myopic shitposting. Which is crime enough.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:23
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mcmagic posted:In terms of the corruption scale she's a 2.3 and he's a 7 billion. Scale and perspective matter. I'd expect a non-fascist to be less corrupt than a fascist, yes. But pretending hillary isn't very corrupt is part of the reason fascism is on the rise. Tolerating corruption only lets it fester and grow worse. Corruption weakens people's faith in their government and gives demagogues like trump room to grow. Condiv fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 17:27
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mcmagic posted:In terms of the corruption scale she's a 2.3 and he's a 7 billion. Scale and perspective matter. no one is arguing otherwise dude
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Mar 20, 2017 17:33
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Wouldn't false equivalency lead to neither candidate getting a vote? Anything that's not a vote for hillary is automatically a vote for trump. All third parties would normally vote dem, if only voters weren't so dumb. That includes votes for the constitution party and Libertarian party btw.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:33
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Condiv posted:Problem with that reasoning is that I live in a blood red state no one believed clinton had a snowball's chance in even when flawed polling was overestimating her chances. It's your fault she didn't campaign or reach out to rust belt voters. Way to go Condiv, you sold the US to Russia.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:35
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:It's your fault she didn't campaign or reach out to rust belt voters. gently caress, when's my treason trial?
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Mar 20, 2017 17:37
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Condiv posted:gently caress, when's my treason trial? It starts as soon as you publicly apologize to Khaleesi for thinking she was in any way, shape or form corrupt from her corporate ties. Also you must apologize to Chelsea because we all know getting huge duffel bags of cash money everyday for no good reason at all isn't a form of corruption, it's just business as usual
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Mar 20, 2017 17:39
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The Democratic Party is institutionally incapable of learning. I eagerly await Clinton/Blue Dog Southern Governor 2020.
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Mar 20, 2017 18:08
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Rent-A-Cop posted:The Democratic Party is institutionally incapable of learning. People keep saying Clinton but I don't think so. It'll be Cuomo/Booker, in some variation. At which point the party collapses right into the singularity up an oligarchs rear end
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Mar 20, 2017 18:11
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