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I don't know why they felt the need to have so many content warnings in this ep if they were just going to bleep the offending word.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:19
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I haven't listened to the new episode, but speaking of overzealous "ooooooh boy this thing is so lovely, yikes, I dare not speak a word of it, but will instead elaborate on just how much I won't speak a word of it!!" to this day I'm still curious about what possibly could've happened to elicit that response in Hammer of the Gods, a book about a band I'm not even into. I mean, I can probably hazard a guess, but still, I hate that sort of poo poo. Either mention it or don't. The whole premise of this show is about how bad books are bad, and they tend to go in the direction of dancing around those bad things rather than leaning right into them, which does the whole thing a disservice imo. I listen to a lot of different podcasts and haven't gotten around to a huge portion of this one, so maybe I've just randomly picked ones where this happens a lot, I dunno
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Mar 20, 2017 20:08
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In the case of Hammer of the Gods it was a bunch of rape. I gotta say I listened to Leave That Thing Alone based on the Trees complaints and that midi version of Freewill is the best thing I have ever heard and I love it.
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Mar 20, 2017 20:26
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The two of them seem to express a whole lot of guilt about even entertaining an idea that might offend or trigger somebody, but they're often talking about things written by objectively lovely people written 10-60 years ago, and they put a frankly embarrassing amount of buffer around Violent J calling somebody a human being, on the off chance that that may have taken somebody by surprise. I appreciate this podcast and I like that they're willing to be like yo this may have some uncomfortable content but in the last few episodes it feels like it's bordering between an irrational fear of losing listeners or soliciting complaints for wrongthink on behalf of the people they acknowledge are lovely, and a little bit of the "don't worry, we're plenty woke, please don't mistake us for believing or endorsing anything loving Violent J says simply because we read and talked about his book" on a show whose entire premise is engaging with and mocking bad ideas.
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Mar 20, 2017 21:01
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Yeah, I weas surprised by the bleeping but I appreciated it, tbh; there's too many people who will really revel using any perceived valid excuse to sling those kinds of slurs around. I don't think these guys would do that but I'm also glad that they opted not to air it. And as for sliding over all the rape in Hammer of the Gods, yeah, i mean, it's bad-as-in-quality books, not bad as in that poo poo. It's also pretty famously in there; I guess if you knew nothing at all about the book you wouldn't know that but I feel like that comes up almost every time the book is mentioned at all. e: though honestly I do wish they'd at least mentioned 'hey we're skipping over a lot of rape to look at the other ways this book is awful' because not mentioning at all sort of feels like it's waving it off. 'we're skipping some lovely stuff' leaves it a little... eh. NBD as it goes but yeah. That said yeah this episode wasn't their best. I didn't much mind it, but I also listen to episodes as I'm literally falling asleep so take that for what you will. neongrey fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 21:03
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I only care about it insofar as it takes up a lot of time at the beginning of an episode when they could probably condense it to a more pragmatic "hey, trigger warning: homophobic slurs, on with the show". I'm not upset at them trying to be good people, and I get the sense that a good portion of their fanbase are sensitive to the sorts of things they call out at the beginnings of episodes. I'm not sensitive to that stuff but then privilege etc.
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Mar 20, 2017 21:16
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Yeah it's a fair cop, it could be shortened a lot; I sort of get the impression that while they care they do seem a little awkward with the notion of a point-blank content warning.
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Mar 20, 2017 21:23
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Just get Jay to write a jingle for it. 
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Mar 20, 2017 21:26
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It should be his dope Free Will arrangement and the weird pitched-down voice over reads all the warnings.
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Mar 20, 2017 21:34
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Djeser posted:Just get Jay to write a jingle for it. This but unironicly
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Mar 20, 2017 21:34
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neongrey posted:And as for sliding over all the rape in Hammer of the Gods, yeah, i mean, it's bad-as-in-quality books, not bad as in that poo poo. It's also pretty famously in there; I guess if you knew nothing at all about the book you wouldn't know that but I feel like that comes up almost every time the book is mentioned at all. Yeah, I'd never even heard of the book before. I just chose that ep because I like listening to them talk about trashy rock bios. A brief mention like that would've been the right way to treat it. In case my post came off as callous, I'm totally down with being sensitive to those types of things; they just take it too far sometimes.
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Mar 20, 2017 21:34
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Rumda posted:This but unironicly Djeser is never ironic, about anything, sir
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Mar 20, 2017 21:35
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flesh dance posted:Yeah, I'd never even heard of the book before. I just chose that ep because I like listening to them talk about trashy rock bios. A brief mention like that would've been the right way to treat it. doublepost, but if you haven't listened to the Scar Tissue one then that's probably closer to what you want, or Candy Girl
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Mar 20, 2017 21:37
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I feel like all content warnings should be delivered in jingle form. e: also not ironic
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Mar 20, 2017 21:38
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Ironic Twist posted:doublepost, but if you haven't listened to the Scar Tissue one then that's probably closer to what you want, or Candy Girl Those are both done & done. I think I've covered the entirety of their "trashy bio" section, haha. Candy Girl was good-- as an F+ fan, Lemon is always a treat. flesh dance fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 21:42
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I imagine the content warning jingle being like this part of Disgust: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3qgp4-TeE8&t=174s
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Mar 20, 2017 21:42
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I too get annoyed at how aggressively apologetic they get about even talking about something that has PROBLEMATIC stuff in it, and would totally be OK if the same apologies were presented in jingle format.
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Mar 20, 2017 21:47
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To be honest, I think it doesn't reflect well on their opinion of gay people if they expect them to melt away and die like the Wicked Witch if so much as a drop of The Wrong F Word meets their ears. Any time something "uncomfortable" comes up, it's like they think they're taking care of the boy in the bubble or something. It's just patronizing; if I were gay, I'd feel genuinely insulted.
Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 20:57
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I kind of feel that way too, like if you're going to devote an entire episode to discuss how a very dumb man's ideas are bad and dumb, stop giving so much power to them.
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Mar 22, 2017 21:10
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Sham bam bamina! posted:To be honest, I think it doesn't reflect well on their opinion of gay people if they expect them to melt away and die like the Wicked Witch if so much as a drop of The Wrong F Word meets their ears. Any time something "uncomfortable" comes up, it's like they think they're taking care of the boy in the bubble or something. It's just patronizing; if I were gay, I'd feel genuinely insulted. I'm gay and I don't
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Mar 22, 2017 21:26
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Fair enough!
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Mar 22, 2017 21:35
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I'm just wondering what's going to be in the part two. It seemed like they pretty comprehensively covered the book already.
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Mar 23, 2017 03:47
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Sham bam bamina! posted:To be honest, I think it doesn't reflect well on their opinion of gay people if they expect them to melt away and die like the Wicked Witch if so much as a drop of The Wrong F Word meets their ears. Any time something "uncomfortable" comes up, it's like they think they're taking care of the boy in the bubble or something. It's just patronizing; if I were gay, I'd feel genuinely insulted. Yeah, this poo poo is why I quit listening. They are totally allowed to be patronizing shits and jerk each other off about how woke they are for it, but I don't have to give them my time. It's a shame, because they used to not be as bad and be genuinely entertaining a lot of the time, although there were some signs. Like the whole thing with The Alchemist being bad because what if white people read a self-help book??? Like that book doesn't have enough other problems.
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Mar 23, 2017 06:14
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they need to drop the woke one-upping for real. on the other hand they apparently get "WELL ACTUALLY"ed so much on twitter it's driven them to this. tough game for a podcast I like
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Mar 23, 2017 08:52
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Tiggum posted:I'm just wondering what's going to be in the part two. It seemed like they pretty comprehensively covered the book already. I've read it. You don't even know, man, the teases at the end were so little of the madness.
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Mar 23, 2017 09:02
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Sham bam bamina! posted:To be honest, I think it doesn't reflect well on their opinion of gay people if they expect them to melt away and die like the Wicked Witch if so much as a drop of The Wrong F Word meets their ears. Any time something "uncomfortable" comes up, it's like they think they're taking care of the boy in the bubble or something. It's just patronizing; if I were gay, I'd feel genuinely insulted. I'm not insulted but it's just eye-rolling. Hearing one of the members of ICP drop the word human being doesn't bother me in the slightest compared to someone you know really truly means it and has genuine hatred behind it. And unfortunately I'm tending to agree with the last handful of posts. They really are trying to act as "woke" as possible about things and they go on for five minutes about how offensive one sentence is and then censor it rather than getting to the loving point. It's tiresome.
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Mar 23, 2017 12:18
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Let's not have the loving "virtue signalling" discussion again
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Mar 23, 2017 16:26
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As someone who's been called a fag on the street I'd rather not hear it in my funnyman book podcast, thanks
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Mar 23, 2017 17:02
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But even outside of the whole content warning discussion, I listen to this podcast to hear funny folks dunk on bad books. This one felt like a homework assignment. There wasn't any gleeful roasting going on like the Seven Deadly Sins or even Money, Pizza, Respect. They just talked about how the book was bad and then wrapped it up.
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Mar 23, 2017 17:09
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I won't even touch the virtue signaling thing, because that's just a lovely internet nazi concept that I wish normal people would stop using, but the podcast has definitely been less funny lately and more dour.
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Mar 23, 2017 17:23
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Yeah, the constant milling about how the book has lovely values and language is like... yeah. It's Insane Clown Posse. You get exactly what you expect. The podcast is fun when it exposes me to laughably bad things I wouldn't have known about otherwise (Eye of Argon, Sass Girls X, Night of the Crabs.) This one just spent an hour explaining to me that Violent "you can't explain how rainbows work" J is an idiot with bad ideas, something I already knew, with promise of another hour of the same. Plus, I seem to remember them saying somewhere they weren't going to do any more books about bands for this reason, and then we've gotten what, 3 of their last 7 episodes about books about bands?
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Mar 23, 2017 17:25
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Heath posted:Plus, I seem to remember them saying somewhere they weren't going to do any more books about bands for this reason, and then we've gotten what, 3 of their last 7 episodes about books about bands?
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Mar 23, 2017 17:49
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Thinking on it, the rub comes in where they're talking about biographical stuff vs. bad fiction. Clockwork Angels was okay because it had the fictional aspects of Kevin Anderson's awful writing to make fun of. The band books are (while mostly technically fictional) meant to be biographical and thus the show ends up turning from "look at how ridiculous and silly this fictional character is made to be" to "look at how lovely the subject of the book is/was" posturing. Instead of making fun of the author by way of his characters, they're making fun of the "character" by way of the author, and it's tiresome and not fun to listen to.
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Mar 23, 2017 18:09
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What's interesting is how much more relaxed about things Jay and Chris are when they guest on The F Plus. I think it's a case of different audiences, and that the IDEOTV listeners are really quick to shout at them on Twitter when something they don't like happens (which is where "Deuce ex Mockingjay", a phrase I genuinely love, comes from).
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Mar 23, 2017 18:17
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Why was Jay's twitter suspended?
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Mar 23, 2017 18:29
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Yeah. If you're on their Facebook group, it's full of the sort of people who get really angry over really innocuous things, so if that's the majority of their audience I kind of get why they give ten minutes of content warnings and five more of post-hoc disavowing.Drunkboxer posted:Why was Jay's twitter suspended? It wasn't. He left Twitter because it's a miserable cesspool. He suicide-banned his own account so nobody could squat on it.
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Mar 23, 2017 18:30
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Drunkboxer posted:Why was Jay's twitter suspended? He got sick of twitter slapfights and toxicity. It's 100% for the better. He got super nasty on there. quote:Yeah. If you're on their Facebook group, it's full of the sort of people who get really angry over really innocuous things, so if that's the majority of their audience I kind of get why they give ten minutes of content warnings and five more of post-hoc disavowing. Really? I get nothing but good vibes from the group. Really good people on there.
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Mar 23, 2017 18:31
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One of many reasons twitter really doesn't work as a two way platform. Yeah, when you're looking to laugh at something terrible, constant timorous "are you sure" waffling is really annoying. Have some pride in your work. If you're struggling to say something funny about ICP you've got problems.
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Mar 23, 2017 18:34
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Famethrowa posted:He got sick of twitter slapfights and toxicity. It's not the worst, but there's a lot of "look at this gross thing" "ugh UGGGHHHH"
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Mar 23, 2017 19:40
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Sham bam bamina! posted:A popular rock band from the 1960s? It's actually bad, and you like it for reasons that are also bad. Now let me tell you about the last great Rush album, Presto. Heath posted:Thinking on it, the rub comes in where they're talking about biographical stuff vs. bad fiction. Clockwork Angels was okay because it had the fictional aspects of Kevin Anderson's awful writing to make fun of. The band books are (while mostly technically fictional) meant to be biographical and thus the show ends up turning from "look at how ridiculous and silly this fictional character is made to be" to "look at how lovely the subject of the book is/was" posturing. Instead of making fun of the author by way of his characters, they're making fun of the "character" by way of the author, and it's tiresome and not fun to listen to. It's weird because the Money Pizza Respect and Seven Deadly Sins episodes were funny and good. Maybe they're just burnt out on hanging out in the mindspace of a lovely person after the United States has turned into the mindspace of a lovely person.
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Mar 24, 2017 15:56
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