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Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!

I enjoy work travel. My company puts me up in a nice hotel near the office, which is either in downtown Philly or midtown Manhattan. I work pretty reasonable days, expense drinks with coworkers, and generally enjoy not making my bed for a week. When I'm going to a conference, it's about the same answer for a different city. If I want, I can usually make a business case for flying in on Sunday or leaving on Saturday, then pick the earliest/latest possible flight that day, which gives me a day to myself to enjoy the city.

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Finger Prince
Jan 5, 2007


Murgos posted:

Where the heck do you work?

My work travel is usually something like:

Arrive at destination area between 6-9pm, get rental car and find hotel, sleep from 10pm to 5 am (if you can depending on time changes).
Get to destination office by 7:30. Eat lovely continental breakfast and drink crap coffee.
Meet until 6 or 7 pm going over some tedious procedural documents and engineering documents that everyone has reviewed for weeks previously.
Have dinner with local reps. Usually can be okay unless they want to talk work.
Hotel at 11pm, sleep until 5 back to destination office by 7:30, repeat until meeting schedule is exhausted.
Last day, fly out immediately after last conference, usually to catch 6 or 7pm flight.
Get home around midnight or later.
Go into normal work day next morning.

Blah.

Where I work I don't even get lounge access or air miles!
Maybe your problem is being in engineering, instead of sales or marketing or related fields, or maybe you're just selling it wrong instead of posting look how happy and successful I am and how great my life is Facebook updates.
I get that a lot of times it isn't glamorous, but it's exactly like Ola described it. It's an excuse to break out of a routine and daily work grind, maybe escape family obligations, and be unsupervised for a little while, only having to answer to the accounts department when you submit your receipts. To a lot of people, that is like a vacation.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Mr. Ola, I think you mean: fuel cell powered airship airliners :spergin:

3 Days to London! 5 Days to Beijing, sooty coal brick of the Orient!

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010

I am stupid

simplefish posted:

No, BA made money off Concorde because of how they operated it in their fleet.

Tickets were stupidly expensive, and it was very rare for a Concorde flight to be fully booked. So they'd overbook First Class on London/NY flights on their other planes, then offer those passengers a Concorde seat once they arrived at the airport. It worked very well to fill up the Concorde flights, making them viable.

Didn't they also get the planes way below cost?

Thomamelas
Mar 11, 2009

FrozenVent posted:

Yeah, seriously, where do you work that people enjoy work travel?

Most of the time it's fly in, go to meeting, spend night at lovely hotel in the middle of nowhere, attend meeting, fly back, go the gently caress back to work the next day. Nobody's gonna make a mini vacation of a trip to the Yarapunga Airport Holiday Inn and Convention Center.

It depends a lot on how your management treats it. My job is 75% travel but my Mondays and Fridays are basically just travel days. That's all I need to do those days. So depending on where I am going, I have a few hours of dealing with the airport. Then I teach a class a few days during the week. If I'm in a city that's interesting, It's not an every week thing though. Last week I was in Omaha and my desire to play tourist was nil. But I have a trip to DC coming up in a few weeks that goes into some of my PTO. So I'll go see Udvar-Hazy and take two days for that.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

Mortabis posted:

Didn't they also get the planes way below cost?
I am sure a Brit knows better than me, but I think the government eventually wrote off BAs share of the development cost and after that they were profitable.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
Until someone can figure out the gap between "poo poo happens at (rate) when I show up in person" and "poo poo happens at (0.25)*(rate) when I don't show up in person" there is going to be a permanent durable future for business air travel.

sellouts
Apr 23, 2003

Finger Prince posted:

Most people I know who have to travel for work consider it a benefit, and treat the trips themselves as a vacation outside of the actual work stuff. And that doesn't even touch the leisure market, and the basic human desire to explore other places.

Ive found this to be true of people who have less than 3-4 years of work travel, under thirty and or travel 25% or less.

I'm at the point this year where I've traveled more privately than commercially for work and can largely choose my countries of travel. If you told me that at 24 I would have been in heaven. Now I just want to get off the plane not have to face a client while facing backwards with nothing interesting to look at.

Jonny Nox
Apr 26, 2008




Lol just heard on the news that YYC received over 1700 noise complaints from 1 person last year.

Need to find a way to monetize that salt.

beep-beep car is go
Apr 11, 2005

I can just eyeball this, right?



Jonny Nox posted:

Lol just heard on the news that YYC received over 1700 noise complaints from 1 person last year.

That's got to be like more than one complaint per aircraft

"Yes? I'd like to complain! That jet that I called about earlier is still very loud!"

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost

Jonny Nox posted:

Lol just heard on the news that YYC received over 1700 noise complaints from 1 person last year.

Need to find a way to monetize that salt.

Well, you could become a psychiatrist who takes medicare.

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010

I am stupid

mlmp08 posted:

Well, you could become a psychiatrist who takes medicare.

It's a good notion, but sadly YYC is in Canada.

um excuse me
Jan 1, 2016

by Fluffdaddy
Proof of concept testing on boundary layer engines has just wrapped up and the results seem promising. UTRC (United Technologies Research Center) and NASA are showing the engines use less fuel compared to their pylon counterparts. Blended engine/body designs here we come.



http://www.utrc.utc.com/20170316_nasa.html

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

Jonny Nox posted:

Lol just heard on the news that YYC received over 1700 noise complaints from 1 person last year.

Need to find a way to monetize that salt.
How does that even happen? It can't just be :bahgawd: can it? There must be some sort of mental illness there.

Fredrick
Jan 20, 2008

BRU HU HA HA HA

um excuse me posted:

Proof of concept testing on boundary layer engines has just wrapped up and the results seem promising. UTRC (United Technologies Research Center) and NASA are showing the engines use less fuel compared to their pylon counterparts. Blended engine/body designs here we come.



http://www.utrc.utc.com/20170316_nasa.html

I mean, this seems like a no-brainer, but isn't the issue that maintaining these things is a huge pain in the butt compared to pylon-mounted engines?
Also, the whole issue with compressor disks deciding to go on an adventure becomes even more problematic when it happens.

Did the Comet teach us nothing? :haw:

Comrade Gorbash
Jul 12, 2011

My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.

Fredrick posted:

I mean, this seems like a no-brainer, but isn't the issue that maintaining these things is a huge pain in the butt compared to pylon-mounted engines?
Also, the whole issue with compressor disks deciding to go on an adventure becomes even more problematic when it happens.

Did the Comet teach us nothing? :haw:
It all comes down to how much better performance we're talking about. If they can hit half what I've seen promised, then it's a net savings and worth the extra maintenance hassle and the safety redesigns.

Plus the modern designs look to be a lot more modular than the older blended concepts - they're moving towards engine pods attached to the airframe, essentially.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

From 2015
https://www.yyc.com/Portals/0/Environment/YYC%20Noise%20Report%202015.pdf?ver=2016-07-07-122606-393

quote:

YYC continues to follow the international trend of small groups of individuals submitting
proportionally high volumes of concerns. In 2015, two individuals were responsible for 68 per cent
of all the calls/emails (6,961 calls/emails) received by the Authority
:stare:

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

Just goes to show the superior mental health system north of the border, it only took one person to file that many against Reagan National last year. 18 every day.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

The right answer is "if you don't like it, loving move, you whiny rear end in a top hat!"

I also find it funny that they're building a brand new "lake community" right out by Springbank, so of course you're going to have these same loving retards buy an expensive new McMansion and then bitch about the airport that's been there for nearly five loving decades. Of course, being the sixth busiest airport in Canada by aircraft movements, I suspect they will get told to pound sand.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Fredrick posted:

I mean, this seems like a no-brainer, but isn't the issue that maintaining these things is a huge pain in the butt compared to pylon-mounted engines?
Also, the whole issue with compressor disks deciding to go on an adventure becomes even more problematic when it happens.

Did the Comet teach us nothing? :haw:

I don't think it makes an issue with compressor disks any worse. How would that work? Uncontained failure is uncontained failure. Maintenance, sure.

Captain Postal
Sep 16, 2007

Fredrick posted:

I mean, this seems like a no-brainer, but isn't the issue that maintaining these things is a huge pain in the butt compared to pylon-mounted engines?
Also, the whole issue with compressor disks deciding to go on an adventure becomes even more problematic when it happens.

Did the Comet teach us nothing? :haw:

It looks like you could service most of that engine by removing the cowling, and time on wing is exceeding 40,000 hours now.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

I don't think it makes an issue with compressor disks any worse. How would that work? Uncontained failure is uncontained failure. Maintenance, sure.

Maybe not compressor disks, but the main fan is in front of the wing's plane, so it most definitely helps reduce critical wing damage. Given current wing and engine dimensions, there's also the matter of "where else do you put it?".

Ola fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Mar 20, 2017

Mariana Horchata
Jun 30, 2008

College Slice

Jonny Nox posted:

Lol just heard on the news that YYC received over 1700 noise complaints from 1 person last year.

Need to find a way to monetize that salt.

I know the US does but does CA provide government subsidies to provide soundproofing for places in high exposure zones that qualify?

Also, I loved the An-124/Russian flight crew stories + the recommendations - good stuff

Fredrick
Jan 20, 2008

BRU HU HA HA HA

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

I don't think it makes an issue with compressor disks any worse. How would that work? Uncontained failure is uncontained failure. Maintenance, sure.

I feel like having the engine that much closer to important spars or longerons increases the risk that an airframe might be written off by debris that might've otherwise gone to some part of the sky that isn't occupied by plane, but I admit it's not enough of a gripe to rule out using these, especially with the information you guys presented after my first post.
I hope it's worth it, for reals! It looks super cool, and I'm completely onboard aesthetically, I just worried that this was more of a reinventing the wheel situation when I saw it.

vessbot
Jun 17, 2005
I don't like you because you're dangerous
As a data point in the speed vs. comfort discussion, I just chose to wait an extra 4 hours, and skip 2 flights, to get on a transcontinental flight with a virtually guaranteed first class.

e: they're not lie flats :qq:

vessbot fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Mar 20, 2017

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

Ola posted:

Maybe not compressor disks, but the main fan is in front of the wing's plane, so it most definitely helps reduce critical wing damage. Given current wing and engine dimensions, there's also the matter of "where else do you put it?".

Oops, linked to the wrong img url. The "where do you put it?" argument has a bit more impact with a pic that loads.

um excuse me
Jan 1, 2016

by Fluffdaddy
All I see

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"
No, that's the future, when the only person sitting there will be the guy in charge of making sure the robot autopilot doesn't go "HAL" so he doesn't go schizo himself for not having a window. Or the aperture where the Laser ILS shines to guide the plane in.

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Mar 21, 2017

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

BIG HEADLINE posted:

Or the aperture where the Laser ILS shines to guide the plane in.

Lol, the future is WAAS enabled GPS approaches. Ground based navigational aids will be deprecated in twenty years, and probably gone altogether in fifty.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



MrYenko posted:

Lol, the future is WAAS enabled GPS approaches. Ground based navigational aids will be deprecated in twenty years, and probably gone altogether in fifty.

Hopefully nobody figures out how to jam GPS between now and then!

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

well yeah maybe VORs and NDBs will be deprecated, but I feel like visual landmarks and runway lighting are probably gonna stick around for a while

"Mwahaahahaaha! In order to deny the Air Force access to my secret lair in the Sierra Nevada, I have jammed all GPS receivers, cut the power to every navigational beacon, and dynamited the tops of every mountain!"

Aargh
Sep 8, 2004

BIG HEADLINE posted:

No, that's the future, when the only person sitting there will be the guy in charge of making sure the robot autopilot doesn't go "HAL" so he doesn't go schizo himself for not having a window. Or the aperture where the Laser ILS shines to guide the plane in.

If we have computers flying the plane can't we move the pilot out the back and have some kickass 180 degree window seats at the front?

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

Sagebrush posted:

well yeah maybe VORs and NDBs will be deprecated, but I feel like visual landmarks and runway lighting are probably gonna stick around for a while

"Mwahaahahaaha! In order to deny the Air Force access to my secret lair in the Sierra Nevada, I have jammed all GPS receivers, cut the power to every navigational beacon, and dynamited the tops of every mountain!"

Right because people don't do poo poo just for kicks. See: Lasers pointing at aircraft all over the goddamn place, and drones getting in the way. All it takes is for one aircraft's system to flip out and try to correct an "error" and fly into a building because it thought it was 1/4 mile away and 100 feet higher.

Edit: Last year a Navy exercise employing GPS jamming forced a bizjet to declare an emergency after it hosed with his autopilot, which started making unexpected control inputs. Read your NOTAMS, people.

Godholio fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Mar 21, 2017

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
Has anyone been working on making an autopilot based on computer vision instead of external navaids? If so, how successful has it been?

Captain Postal
Sep 16, 2007

PT6A posted:

Has anyone been working on making an autopilot based on computer vision instead of external navaids? If so, how successful has it been?

My friend did it as his PhD (well, positioning by identifying the horizon and mapping the features to a map - but the autopilot is pretty easy once you know where you are). He also briefly did auto-land using computer vision only, but that's not terribly hard

He got sub meter precision.

Captain Postal fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Mar 21, 2017

Comrade Gorbash
Jul 12, 2011

My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.
Generally speaking the problem with computer vision systems is that unusual or marginal light conditions can cause the to misinterpret their surroundings. Deep shadows and dazzling reflections are the most common mishandled conditions. That happens to humans too, of course, but computer vision systems to go even further off the rails when they fail. It's the classic problem with programmed systems - the majority of the time the results are amazing and far better than human control. But when they go wrong, they tend to go wrong catastrophically.

What makes it a really intractable problem is that humans have an annoying tendency to override automated systems when they shouldn't. And a tendency to trust them when they shouldn't too.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

Why would you want a an autopilot, which is so important at night or in IMC, to be based on vision? How does it navigate over the sea? And navigating by land features alone is so hard the mail planes of the 20s needed city names and huge arrows painted on roofs.

A set of gyros keeps you oriented, an INS can tell where you are. Don't know if the best ones are accurate enough to autoland after an intercontinental trip.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
Cruise missiles have navigated by landmarks for decades—using terrain, not visual, granted.

Platystemon fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Mar 21, 2017

Comrade Gorbash
Jul 12, 2011

My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.

Ola posted:

Why would you want a an autopilot, which is so important at night or in IMC, to be based on vision? How does it navigate over the sea? And navigating by land features alone is so hard the mail planes of the 20s needed city names and huge arrows painted on roofs.

A set of gyros keeps you oriented, an INS can tell where you are. Don't know if the best ones are accurate enough to autoland after an intercontinental trip.
Visual is passive and difficult to jam. If you can overcome the issues with data interpretation and pair it with an INS, you have a system that's essentially immune to EW and able to self-correct and re-orient without external aid.

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Jonny Nox
Apr 26, 2008




Platystemon posted:

Cruise missiles have navigatd by landmarks for decades—using terrain, not visual, granted.

um, excuse me, but cruise missiles know where they are at all times because they know where they aren't.


:colbert:

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