Spring Season 2017: they don't make it to the basement in this season

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Spring Season 2017: they don't make it to the basement in this season

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Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Grouchio posted:

I'll watch Re:Creators to see if the MC is less insufferable than Shirou Emiya.

shirou emiya is cool and my boyfriend

# ? Mar 20, 2017 18:39

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# ? May 10, 2024 14:26

littleorv: Jan 29, 2011

Endorph posted:

shirou emiya is cool and my boyfriend

hello

uh

Sakura?

# ? Mar 20, 2017 19:59

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

littleorv posted:

hello

uh

Sakura?

i wish

# ? Mar 20, 2017 20:18

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Endorph posted:

i wish

Shinji.

# ? Mar 20, 2017 20:23

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Fangz posted:

Shinji.

i wish

# ? Mar 20, 2017 20:27

Namtab: Feb 22, 2010

sakura is my wif, and also blue sabre

# ? Mar 20, 2017 21:51

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

Shirou Emiya is blindingly idealistic about wanting to save everyone and being a hero, and I as a pragmatist, a realist and a political analyst, can only be infuriated. He's about as bigoted as Woodrow Wilson, a man who helped set up WW2, in my opinion. Also he seems very bland and not interesting like reforming fuckup Natsuki Subaru. And what the fuckity gently caress is "Being Correct doesn't make you Right" supposed to mean!? :psyduck:

# ? Mar 21, 2017 04:36

RME: Feb 20, 2012

im gay

# ? Mar 21, 2017 04:48

Three Cookies: Apr 9, 2010

Grouchio posted:

And what the fuckity gently caress is "Being Correct doesn't make you Right" supposed to mean!?

# ? Mar 21, 2017 04:54

The Unholy Ghost: Feb 19, 2011

Grouchio posted:

Shirou Emiya is blindingly idealistic about wanting to save everyone and being a hero, and I as a pragmatist, a realist and a political analyst, can only be infuriated. He's about as bigoted as Woodrow Wilson, a man who helped set up WW2, in my opinion. Also he seems very bland and not interesting like reforming fuckup Natsuki Subaru. And what the fuckity gently caress is "Being Correct doesn't make you Right" supposed to mean!?

shirou emiya is cooler and stronger than you'll ever be. maybe you jealous?

# ? Mar 21, 2017 05:00

littleorv: Jan 29, 2011

Grouchio posted:

Shirou Emiya is blindingly idealistic about wanting to save everyone and being a hero, and I as a pragmatist, a realist and a political analyst, can only be infuriated. He's about as bigoted as Woodrow Wilson, a man who helped set up WW2, in my opinion. Also he seems very bland and not interesting like reforming fuckup Natsuki Subaru. And what the fuckity gently caress is "Being Correct doesn't make you Right" supposed to mean!?

You are not an anime

# ? Mar 21, 2017 05:04

dudermcbrohan: May 14, 2013

Grouchio posted:

Shirou Emiya is blindingly idealistic about wanting to save everyone and being a hero, and I as a pragmatist, a realist and a political analyst, can only be infuriated. He's about as bigoted as Woodrow Wilson, a man who helped set up WW2, in my opinion. Also he seems very bland and not interesting like reforming fuckup Natsuki Subaru. And what the fuckity gently caress is "Being Correct doesn't make you Right" supposed to mean!?

right and correct mean different things

# ? Mar 21, 2017 05:33

Terper: Jun 26, 2012

It might technically be "correct" to kill a lot of humans to make life better for those left, but that doesn't make it "right".

# ? Mar 21, 2017 05:47

gimme the GOD DAMN candy: Jul 1, 2007

lol at comparing shirou emiya to woodrow wilson completely unironically. grouchio may be so deep on the spectrum that it is like talking to an alien, but sometimes he is also really funny without trying.

# ? Mar 21, 2017 06:43

Tarodia: Jan 13, 2008; Winners don't do drugs

Grouchio posted:

Shirou Emiya is blindingly idealistic about wanting to save everyone and being a hero, and I as a pragmatist, a realist and a political analyst, can only be infuriated. He's about as bigoted as Woodrow Wilson, a man who helped set up WW2, in my opinion. Also he seems very bland and not interesting like reforming fuckup Natsuki Subaru. And what the fuckity gently caress is "Being Correct doesn't make you Right" supposed to mean!?

The gently caress show have you been watching

# ? Mar 21, 2017 06:47

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

Tarodia posted:

The gently caress show have you been watching

Unlimited Blade Works. Fell flat compared to Fate Zero. What a silly question.

# ? Mar 21, 2017 07:35

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

i dont think shirou hates jews

fate/zero is also a bunch of really boring misery porn about a dude whose character is only sketched out by the actually interesting women around him dying. waver and iskander are good tho

# ? Mar 21, 2017 08:14

Dryzen: Jul 23, 2011

what in the world

# ? Mar 21, 2017 08:16

Sindai: Jan 24, 2007; i want to achieve immortality through not dying

Endorph posted:

fate/zero is also a bunch of really boring misery porn about a dude whose character is only sketched out by the actually interesting women around him dying. waver and iskander are good tho

Also it gave us Gil's magic airship

# ? Mar 21, 2017 08:17

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Sindai posted:

Also it gave us Gil's magic airship

yeah that too. that was good

really any time kiritsugu wasn't onscreen, f/z was pretty enjoyable. though iskander and gilgamesh just sitting around talking about how saber's ideals are pointless and being proven right in the end was pretty dumb.

# ? Mar 21, 2017 08:18

The Colonel: Jun 8, 2013; I commute by bike!

Fate/stay night is better than fate/zero

I haven't finished f/sn and I can't because my computer is dead, and I haven't watched fate/zero

# ? Mar 21, 2017 08:18

Dryzen: Jul 23, 2011

Endorph posted:

yeah that too. that was good

really any time kiritsugu wasn't onscreen, f/z was pretty enjoyable. though iskander and gilgamesh just sitting around talking about how saber's ideals are pointless and being proven right in the end was pretty dumb.

a scene that started so strong too....

# ? Mar 21, 2017 08:18

chumbler: Mar 28, 2010

Iskander and Gilgamesh are fun in Extella. Just make a game or anime about those two farting around, Type Moon.

# ? Mar 21, 2017 08:22

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Dryzen posted:

a scene that started so strong too....

really that entire scene was kind of dumb. it's just characters spouting philosophy at each other in an unnatural way and then hundred-faced hassan pops out for literally no reason and gets owned by iskander for literally no reason. and i can understand why gil wouldn't bother lifting a finger but you'd think saber would fight off the assassins instead of just sitting there. really the assassins being an actual threat and the three of them working together to defeat them would have capped off that scene better and in a more interesting way.

# ? Mar 21, 2017 08:23

Nate RFB: Jan 17, 2005; Clapping Larry

The entirety of Shirou's character arc across all three FSN routes is a thousand times more developed/interesting/nuanced than anything in Zero.

Though Rider/Waver are ofc a lot of fun and Berserker Zero might be the only time I've felt a Servant in that franchise was actually "cool".

# ? Mar 21, 2017 12:47

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

UBW was definitely a weaker show than Fate/Zero.

Shirou's character is potentially deep and nuanced but the adaptation (if not the original game as well) portrays that really poorly. The adaptation should have been much less faithful.

(Like, when I played the game, I thought I actually knew what was going on in that climactic Archer/Shirou scene, but now I don't even know any more. Wasn't the original confrontation about whether or not self-sacrifice for an ideal makes sense?)

Fangz fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Mar 21, 2017

# ? Mar 21, 2017 13:22

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Fangz posted:

UBW was definitely a weaker show than Fate/Zero.

Shirou's character is potentially deep and nuanced but the adaptation (if not the original game as well) portrays that really poorly. The adaptation should have been much less faithful.

(Like, when I played the game, I thought I actually knew what was going on in that climactic Archer/Shirou scene, but now I don't even know any more. Wasn't the original confrontation about whether or not self-sacrifice for an ideal makes sense?)

Also, they had real difficulty making all the blade-spam in the later fights interesting. I did find it unfortunate that one of the best action sequences in the show, Saber versus Berserker, was also one of the earliest.

# ? Mar 21, 2017 14:34

ZepiaEltnamOberon: Oct 25, 2010; I Failed At Anime 2022

Capoeira Berserker was some cool as hell poo poo, too bad I never finished UBW.

Stopped right before the last episode of S1, I think.

# ? Mar 21, 2017 14:50

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Fangz posted:

UBW was definitely a weaker show than Fate/Zero.

Shirou's character is potentially deep and nuanced but the adaptation (if not the original game as well) portrays that really poorly. The adaptation should have been much less faithful.

(Like, when I played the game, I thought I actually knew what was going on in that climactic Archer/Shirou scene, but now I don't even know any more. Wasn't the original confrontation about whether or not self-sacrifice for an ideal makes sense?)

it was more about whether something flawed and impossible is still worth trying to achieve. that said, i agree that the ubw anime is a pretty messy adaptation. it's too faithful when it needs to be looser, it doesn't really take into account that it's adapting from a visual novel and so needs to incorporate more character movement into dialogue scenes/trim some of the fat of the exposition (a character talking for a long time is much more palatable in a vn than in an anime, since you can read at your own pace in a vn), and for some reason gets really loose when being faithful would actually be a good idea. Adding a bunch of CG and poo poo to the archer/shirou fight completely ruins it. The fact that it's just them having a swordfight, Archer's skill against Shirou's skill, is the entire point. The Shirou/Gilgamesh fight is a ltitle better, but they still went really overboard on the flipping around. I'd honestly say the DEEN movie adapted those two scenes better.

# ? Mar 21, 2017 15:24

Nate RFB: Jan 17, 2005; Clapping Larry

The best part of UBW TV anime is the epilogue scenes since it's essentially all entirely new.

# ? Mar 21, 2017 15:33

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Endorph posted:

it was more about whether something flawed and impossible is still worth trying to achieve.

See, that was never really my impression. After playing the game the argument in that route is essentially about, well, reasons to do stuff. Archer's point is that Shirou's route was a mistake from the beginning - that his only real goal was to be happy. His saving people was inspired by Kiritsugu being happy when he saved him and passing on this legacy to him, and thus he formed the idea that he could resolve the feeling of guilt he felt by saving other people and ensuring everyone around him is happy. But this results in him being surrounded only by infinite and eternal misery, and misery for himself, and thus Shirou should just die instead of ending up like torturing himself meaninglessly like that.

Shirou counters that his ideal is not a mistake, that even if the conclusion is potentially tragic for himself, his goal is the ideal itself and not as a means to an end of personal happiness, and that Archer had forgotten that he went down that route because he personally believed in it and know and believe what he did is right and proper. Like, it's thematically important that Shirou's skill is *copying* stuff. Shirou's resolution in UBW is that fact that you copied - in this case, Kiritsugu's ideal - does not undermine the value of it, if you make the copy your own. This is also why he changes the lines of the Reality Marble mantra subsequently.

The problem in the anime is that they broke this by adapting F/Z *first*, when F/Z's conclusion is Kiritsugu discovering his ideal is utter bullshit.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Mar 21, 2017

# ? Mar 21, 2017 15:47

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

I don't think the DEEN Shirou-Gilgamesh fight is better; the Ufotable one is more "realistic" given what we know of GoB but rewatching the VN version it holds my imagination much better.

On the other hand the prelude to the fight with Shirou using K&B against Gilgamesh on the roof is definitely better than the Deen version I think.

# ? Mar 21, 2017 15:52

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

What also broke the final parts of the Ufotable UBW is all the intercutting between scenes. We just kept flipping from cool important fight scene to "Rin in sexual peril!!!" and stuff like that.

# ? Mar 21, 2017 16:00

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Yeah. That's another thing that works better in a VN.

# ? Mar 21, 2017 16:06

ViggyNash: Oct 9, 2012

So I've been gone for a while. What the hell is with all this F/Z vs F/SN talk?

Also Kiritsugu owns and is a good character. That is my inflammatory contribution for today. :colbert:

In other news, I just caught up on Chaos;Child and it is a pretty good popcorn mystery/thriller that definitely captures the tone and style of its predecessor. It also gets pretty hosed up with its gore (that's not far off from Chaos;Head), so if you don't like that kind of stuff I would stay away. So if the premise interests you and crazy gore doesn't put you off, it's worth a watch. Jury's still out on whether the story goes as nonsensically over-the-top as Chaos;Head's ending.

# ? Mar 21, 2017 20:10