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my dad posted:My suggestion would be to move my cav to the center trenchline, while leaving the south for the infantry to take. The enemy will take forever to get through the North, and we have the ACs on the road there. Sound plan imo, and I'd go one step further and dismount in the trenches to gain additional concealment. The infantry will be better suited for clearing Bois, and if the Germans decide to wander in your direction it's better to be behind wire and trenchworks when they do.
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Mar 21, 2017 01:54
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I checked some ranges, and I'll be able to keep a token presence in the south that should give me vision against anyone trying to advance south, letting my artillery shell the poo poo out of them.
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Mar 21, 2017 02:10
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Well, I guess the good news it that our infantry will be marching directly onto the German cavalry.Terrifying Effigies posted:So of the two brigades arriving at 0800, it seems like we need a) one to help mydad find and evict our unwanted house guests around Bois de Blob and b) the other to hightail it up to the unoccupied trenchline in Effyaders before the Germans sneak across the fords. I do not see a trenchline in Effyaders, and it would be foolish to send our reinforcements so far to the rear with out any spotting. Our infantry can arrive onto the map within sight range of the Canal anyways, se can accomplish the same effect by deploying one brigade and having them take a roundabout route towards the Stream, that passes by the major bridges into Effyaders. Put that brigade on "pivot and attack orders". Also, destroy the R1 bridge. Look how easily the boche snuck troops past us. We even lost an engineer chit because we were obsessed with digging frontline fortifications without an actual frontline.
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Mar 21, 2017 02:17
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Why the R1 bridge? The are much closer to the R3 bridge.
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Mar 21, 2017 02:19
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Slim, did you swear a blood feud on that bridge or something like that?
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Mar 21, 2017 02:24
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Well, I guess the good news it that our infantry will be marching directly onto the German cavalry. The *Foret* de Effyaders, aka the trenches that mydad recently vacated. I don't think anyone is advocating falling back on the town yet. There is a decent possibility that the Germans at Bois are the rump survivors of Stethoscope rather than the full strength brigade. The survivors are estimated to be 2x cavalry chits, 1x MG, 1x AH and a Brigade HQ. It would make sense to send them out to probe the lines at night, and would explain why we don't see any units in the northern half of the Bois trenches. Also, before folks panic too much the wire is still in place at the southern ford and the Germans will have to bring up engineers to clear it. Until then it will significantly delay any full-sized units trying to cross, since they'll have to break out of marching formation and cross single file to get around the wire.
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Mar 21, 2017 02:36
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I am willing to take any of the three brigades or the division, based on army needs.
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Mar 21, 2017 03:11
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my dad posted:Slim, did you swear a blood feud on that bridge or something like that? R1 delenda est. Hunt11 posted:Why the R1 bridge? The are much closer to the R3 bridge. We can deploy from the Southwest, we can't deploy in the North West. I am not worried that the Germans will be seizing Effyaders today, I am worried that poor frontline coverage will allow the Boche to sneak a small unit through at some point. That, or force us to post units in Effyaders itself, which will be a pain in the rear end to ever reposition. If the bridge is gone, we can keep our men on the East bank of the canal. Terrifying Effigies posted:The *Foret* de Effyaders, aka the trenches that mydad recently vacated. I don't think anyone is advocating falling back on the town yet. It's likely, but not necessarily true. Either way, concentration of force is better, and we should probe and attack with both an infantry brigade and my dad's cavalry.
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Mar 21, 2017 03:41
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I need more data. Questions I have: How many enemy units do we think are going on the southern road? Where are they going? Do we want to deploy units to stop them? (I dont like have enemy scouts behind my lines) Where do we want to put the new brigades? Do we want to rush the third brigade? Where do we want the observation plane? So far, all I can say is "I think they favor the southern path." We need more to work with then that.
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Mar 21, 2017 03:42
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So, after talking things over with ARF in Roll20, here are a couple of notes ideas. The Germans probably have men in the J Trench and/or in the Bois de Blob. It's been 10 turns since the last saw anybody down there and they've probably advancing since then. If I was in their shoes, I'd have a cav brigade on the western edge of the Bois. So, here is what I am contemplating. The arriving infantry send a scout company forwards to draw fire. If they don't take any fire, great. The Infantry brigades will clear the Bois de Blob and then assault the J Trench. If they do take fire, we'll lose on company. But they Germans will have revealed themselves, giving the infantry a target to fire on and my cav a (distracted) target to charge. Then the infantry can finsih clearing the Bois and then assault J trench, while the cav moves north to secure the middle trenches.  We will need to clarify the spotting, ambush, and charging rules in forests to see if this is legal/wise and would work the way I think it will. We'll also need Trin to confirm our deployment zones. Also, we will need very careful timing and planning to make this work. So staff officers, sharpen your pencils. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 04:24
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FYI Trin said in chat earlier that additional details on our arriving units, where they'll come from, etc will be available tomorrow. Keep in mind that regardless of what units might be hanging around Bois de Blob right now, don't lose sight of the fact that there *are* more Germans coming from the east today.
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Mar 21, 2017 04:29
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Do we have any evidence of Germans having men in that trench?
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Mar 21, 2017 05:28
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my dad posted:Do we have any evidence of Germans having men in that trench? Exactly 10 turns ago, German cavalry were spotted inside of the trench firing out of it, killing one of our engineers. They were not spotted since. Theoretically they could have immediately moved off, but it is more likely they have stayed the night, or sent at least some or all of their cavalry units into Bois de Blob. Terrifying Effigies posted:Keep in mind that regardless of what units might be hanging around Bois de Blob right now, don't lose sight of the fact that there *are* more Germans coming from the east today. It's because of this that ideally I would like Bois de Blob and it's trench to be cleared ASAP to free the cavalry to move off and intercept any Germans that cross the ford elsewhere. I believe an immediate attack on the trench from our cavalry without infantry support is too risky, as is letting them sit there once the enemy cavalry moves off into Bois de Blob as German infantry enter the trench. If the cavalry move directly into our cavalry while Germans are in the trench behind them it'll be a total wipe. The only other solution to free up our forces faster that I can think of is abandoning bois de blob to the enemy, however that gives them a beachhead to the south and also threatens our center positions along the ford. AbortRetryFail fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 05:54
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"Attack on the trench" being used instead of "Moving into the trench" implies there being enemy who could have magically predicted the exact location of where we were going to dig up a trench.
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Mar 21, 2017 06:37
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I used it interchangeably with move since moving is "an attack" rather than a defence in the game's rules, but hypothetically I can't see why a conditional that says "occupy and hold any trenches you find in this area" wouldn't be allowed. I haven't been paying too close attention to the game since the division I'm in doesn't have any assets on the field yet though so the fact that that trench wasn't built at the poiint the enemy issued orders was a thing I missed.
AbortRetryFail fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 06:43
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You can't make conditionals based on erections you haven't spotted when the order was given. e: Admittedly, a trench is the opposite of an erection.
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Mar 21, 2017 06:49
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my dad posted:You can't make conditionals based on erections you haven't spotted when the order was given. Ah, yeah I suppose that is true. I don't remember the wording of the rules but I assumed it was to prevent someone writing "avoid all barbed wire" and didn't really think about it applying to trenches.
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Mar 21, 2017 06:52
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As an aside, I will laugh my rear end off if we lose this game because of fear of ghosts.
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Mar 21, 2017 07:00
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I'm in a bit of a rush, so here is what I'd like to do in broad strokes. my dad and Hunt11, I apologize for the somewhat scattershot nature of this. Please consider these to be orders unless I specify otherwise at a later date. Having thought things over, it is very, very likely the Germans have cavalrymen in the western edge of Bois de Blob. It'd be odd if they sat still for 10 turns after killing our engineer. The Bois is a logical overnight objective since it commands the crossroads the Germans probably think our reinforcements are coming down. This is actually good for us, we have a chance to catch that force in a pincer from two sides and destroy it. Local superiority is a beautiful thing. So, we'll need a plan to deal with this -- here is what I am thinking. Phase 1 The Infantry: The arriving infantry from 7th Infantry Division (thatbastardken) will move up to draw fire from any Germans in the Bois de Blob. There are two ways to do this: 1) send a single scout company to draw fire. This exposes fewer men to danger, but will only draw fire from a few German units, so it may not reveal enough Germans for my cav to attack. 2) get as many men as possible in a battle line and advance towards the Bois de Blob. If there are Germans in the wood, then they'll get fired on. The BEF may take a few more losses, but they will be able to fire back. Plus they will exposed more Germans for the 7th Cavalry Brigade to charge. The Cavalry: As soon as any German cavalry are revealed when they fire on our infantry, our cavalry charge into their rear and rout them. Phase 2 The Infantry: Finish clearing the Bois de Blob, then assault and secure the J Trench. The Cavalry: Help clear the Bois de Blob, then move to the central trenches and the southern edge of the Bois de Effyaders to secure the M4 fords. All the while, Hunt 11's engineers can be wiring up the northern fords and building trenches around the Zone 3(?) Crossroads as a fallback position for our forces. It'd be nice to build some trenches in the Freres farms for the Belgians if they show up. As I said before -- STAFF we need to clarify the spotting, ambush, and charging rules in forests to see if this is legal and wise and that things will work the way I think they will. We'll also need Trin to confirm our deployment zones for the infantry
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Mar 21, 2017 13:58
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Reinforcements map: A division consists of three big BEF brigades (two arriving immediately, one arriving in the next update after this one) plus a single semi-autonomous brigade, organised into two groups of 4 18-pounder guns. Guns travel on-road at 12" in single file. Your artillery arrives on Turn 51. Here is a reminder of the rules for indirect fire. Your artillery may still use direct fire according to the rules, and is still subject to the rules about limbering and unlimbering. However, it may also use indirect fire when directed to do so. Indirect fire range is currently 40". All guns in a brigade must fire at once, and target an area equivalent to the number of chits in the brigade. (So, a brigade with one gun targets a 50px single-chit sized square; a brigade with four guns can arrange four 50px target squares however it likes; a brigade with eight guns can arrange eight squares, and so on.) I say again for emphasis, all guns in a brigade will fire at once when using indirect fire. Friendly fire is possible when using Indirect Fire. If units from opposing sides are within 2" of the target, I will determine who, if anyone, gets hit by the fire. Guns using Indirect Fire must still have 2" of clearance in order to fire over the head of friendly units. Ordered Fire An artillery brigade may use Ordered Fire on any turn when it is unlimbered. The relevant Artillery Commander selects a point to be targeted (subject to a Change of Orders roll if required) and the turn on which the guns should fire, and as long as the orders get through, the guns will open fire on that point. Supporting Fire An artillery brigade may be set to Supporting Fire by its commander. When another brigade spots the enemy, they will send a message to the artillery, and the artillery may then target and use Indirect Fire against the enemy companies. This is subject to the same 8"/16"/24" (and etc.) time lag as for a Change of Orders. The closer you put your guns to the infantry, the quicker they respond, but the more likely they are to be overrun by an enemy breakthrough. Once the message gets through, the artillery spots the enemy as though they were positioned in place of the spotting company/companies. Limited Ammunition Owing to the difficulty of supply, the shortfall in munitions manufacture, and the prolific use of shells already in the war, each group within a brigade is limited to no more than 12 indirect fire missions per day. There is, at present, no limit on the number of Direct Fire missions you may use. Your ammunition comes up at 0800 each day. Standing Orders The following standing orders apply to artillery brigades (if the Artillery Commander can think of anything else that should be SOs and not conditionals, I'll take suggestions). As before, bold indicates the default, and italics alternatives. You may issue different SOs to different groups within a brigade. Override Ordered Fire to support friendly brigades? Yes No By default, a brigade cancels any orders to use Ordered Fire on a turn when it is informed that an infantry brigade needs supporting fire. Minimum number of fire missions remaining to use Supporting Fire 12 9 6 3 1 This allows you to control whether the artillery should automatically use Supporting Fire until it runs out of ammunition, or conserve a certain number of fire missions for use during the remainder of the day. Break off automatically when enemy companies are Spotted within 16" 12" 8" 4" This allows you to control when the guns should break off to avoid being overrun by another lunatic brigadier on a horse. An artillery brigade that breaks off or retreats suppressed cannot then use Ordered Fire until it gets new orders, but it will attempt to unlimber after breaking off, and then continues using Supporting or Direct Fire until the end of the update. When guns break off or retreat suppressed, they may limber and move immediately, on the same turn. When multiple requests for support are received, favour requests from Nearest brigade Brigade spotting most enemies [INSERT BRIGADE NUMBER HERE] Brigade This helps me clarify who should get support if your guns get requests from multiple brigades. Along the same lines... When two brigades issue requests for support Support one brigade with all guns Split in half and support both brigades with half strength I am still trying to figure out how difficult it is to keep track of two groups within a brigade. At my discretion, they may be forced to operate collectively as a single brigade.
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Mar 21, 2017 14:09
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Got it, bossman.
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Mar 21, 2017 14:23
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Excellent. Artillery brings dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.
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Mar 21, 2017 16:32
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 For discussion
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Mar 21, 2017 17:54
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Loel posted:
As a reminder, our artillery has an indirect range of 40". However, the central road, just on the eastern edge of the vallee, is just within indirect range of all crossings, so I think that's where we want them to be located once the germans are repelled. One option would be to get the guns there and let the infantry attacking the bois de blob use them for either direct or supporting fire missions.
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Mar 21, 2017 18:01
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  General directives: Reinforcements sweep the west, mop up any scouts the Boche have Establish defenses along the M1-7 line / zone 4 / the central forests Bonus objective: Find the main enemy body Do we have commanders for the new units? Loel fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 18:04
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So I saw in the Roll20 that this:code:If we don't know where the enemy is, spreading out our forces into mutually unsupportable positions is a bad plan! Send both infantry brigades into Bois de Blob. With a huge concentration of force, we can destroy the Boche cavalry and survive anything else they send. I highly doubt the Germans are advancing on a broad front. Why probe with the cavalry at all, in a risky night-time maneuver, if you're just going burst in from elsewhere? They're going to be trying to support their successful ford. If the boche have the numbers to advance North and South, then our own numbers won't be sufficient to stop them everywhere. The only answer is that to concentrate our forces. We still have the luxury of a fair amount of ground, and lots of uncertainty for the German side. Edit: Also, please remember, we do not need to enter the map in Marching order unless we are entering on a road. Edit edit: Destroy the R1 Bridge. Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 01:22
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Since nobody else seems to be doing it: Infantry division commander, and infantry brigade and artillery commanders, please make a post stating your role and saying that you are still participating in the thread.And now, back to being a grumbling brigadier wondering who put hallucinogenic mushrooms in the high command's tea.
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Mar 22, 2017 01:29
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my dad posted:Since nobody else seems to be doing it: This is probably the opposite of what you want, but unfortunately I think I may have to step down, since I'm preparing to move to Long Island this week and I can't guarantee I'll have time to draft up orders until I get settled. I'm definitely open to taking over reinforcements later in the battle, however.
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Mar 22, 2017 01:38
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Acebuckeye13 posted:This is probably the opposite of what you want, but unfortunately I think I may have to step down, since I'm preparing to move to Long Island this week and I can't guarantee I'll have time to draft up orders until I get settled. I'm definitely open to taking over reinforcements later in the battle, however. It's infinitely preferable to just not posting anything.  Real life issues beat silly internet pixelmans issues, and you can always drop in for another role once you've actually got the time for it, nobody is going to hold a grudge. That all having been said I do believe we now have an open position for an enterprising staff officer to take over
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Mar 22, 2017 01:45
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my dad posted:It's infinitely preferable to just not posting anything. I'm available to step in for the infantry brigade once someone at Division HQ issues some direction o7
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Mar 22, 2017 01:54
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I'm working on some emergency divisional orders right now.
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Mar 22, 2017 01:55
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Terrifying Effigies posted:I'm available to step in for the infantry brigade once someone at Division HQ issues some direction o7 You are now in command of 20th Infantry Brigade replacing Acebuckeye13.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:00
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I'll follow any orders I'm given, but I do have a plea to the division commander: Please let me occupy the nice, already dug trenches in front of the nice, already placed barbed wire, which itself is in front of some nice chokepoints. Also: LOEL, would you kindly extend the deadline? The situation is a bit of a mess, and we can't guarantee everyone will get their orders in time without an extension.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:02
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Trin, requesting delay to Friday while we sort out the new command structureSlim Jim Pickens posted:If we don't know where the enemy is, spreading out our forces into mutually unsupportable positions is a bad plan! My understanding is we're getting this: Turn 49: 2 brigades (infantry) Turn 50: 1 brigade (infantry) Turn 51: 1 brigade (arty) With that in mind, yes, I agree with you 
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Mar 22, 2017 02:11
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I would love the deadline extended as I am writing emergency orders from what is likely the opposite side of the world and only just woke up.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:14
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my dad posted:Since nobody else seems to be doing it: 21ST infantry brigade checking in ! There was a set of provisional orders for the 7th division posted a while back, but I suspect they've been overtaken by events.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:16
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The deadline has been extended. The soft deadline for orders is now 5pm GMT, Thursday 23 March.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:19
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Loel posted:My understanding is we're getting this: Trin Tragula posted:
The third infantry brigade is arriving in 8 turns.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:23
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:The third infantry brigade is arriving in 8 turns. Gotcha. In that case ... Turn 49: 2 brigades (infantry) Bois de Blob Turn 51: 1 brigade (arty) Vallee Turn 57: 1 brigade (infantry) Effyanders  Like so Loel fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 02:28
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Send both infantry brigades into Bois de Blob. With a huge concentration of force, we can destroy the Boche cavalry and survive anything else they send. Yeah, enter in battle formation, it looks like you'll be moving directly into combat. Shifting out of marching stance under fire is no fun, and in this case, not going to be much of a time-saver.
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Mar 22, 2017 03:24
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